Highs and lows of tales

edited December 2009 in Tales of Monkey Island
So, now that it's all over, what would you consider the high points and low points of the season?

for me:
Highs
The Final Fight
The feast of the senses
The sword fights
The trial
The Plot
The dialogue
Possesing the voodoo lady
Insult face fighting(or whatever it was called)

Lows
The treasure hunt in chapter one. Everybody new what do within 3 seconds, but it was monotonous to actually do.
The wiiware version's quality

And that's pretty much it. What about you?

Comments

  • edited December 2009
    HIGHS

    Some secondary characters (Winslow, Anemone, Galeb...)

    Nice method of map introducton (flyover)

    A very brave decision to reweave the basic plot 'cycle' to introduce more tension.

    Island-hopping

    Splendid music (when not too compressed)

    Generally nice visuals

    A good attempt at back-story (Voodoo Lady, LeChuck...)

    Superb voice acting (especially Dominic)

    Whole idea of Voodoo possession/Crossroads/actual Vodoun references

    LOWS

    GAPING plot holes (alright, there'll be a second season, but still, two cut-scenes for a plot that convoluted... c'mon)

    Plot inconsistencies
    The ending decision to cancel all the plot changes (Guybrush gets his hand back, body recovered, everybody's happy... swell. Where is the price to pay?) Why didn't we end at the Crossroads? That'd be more mature storytelling.

    Uneven plot development (chapter 3 seemed like a way to prolong the plot, and chapter four really dragged the plot down at times) - way too many deaths cramped into the 4th chapter without foreshadowing, too bad for eve spread of plot/action balance (there should be more in the previous ones, 4th chapter was like a rapid jump, too rapid)

    Failure to bring closure of sorts - what about DeCava? Dead/alive? Did Elaine plan EVERYTHING? How did LeChuck get his hands on the diary?

    CHARACTER MODEL REUSE / MANY BORING SECONDARY CHARACTERS

    Guybrush's responses were skewed at times
    (was way too eager to accept VL is the baddie, no sign of sexual tension with Morgan - there should be some, being faithful is keeping your priorities in face of temptation, not being not conscious enough to recognize the temptation)

    That said... I still loved TALES :D
  • edited December 2009
    I think my only problems with Tales were, apart from techy issues (Wii!), the occasionally uneven pacing, due to the puzzle design, and the so-so backgrounds in TMI05. I loved the series as a whole. It's a fantastic addition to the canon.
  • edited December 2009
    Highs:
    The swordfight at episode 2's beginning
    Guybrush's hook
    Winslow's fascination with the map
    'Good guy' LeChuck and Guybrush working together in episode 2 and cracking jokes in episode 4
    The final conversation between Guybrush, the MerLeader, and Elaine
    The pirate faceoff
    Murray
    Posessing the Voodoo Lady
    The trial
    Poxed Elaine's entry and fight with Morgan
    LeChuck revealing the Voodoo Lady is evil
    The battle with DeSinge at the end of Chapter 4
    Morgan, DeSinge, and Guybrush's deaths
    The beginning of chapter 5
    The puzzle were you have to regain your body
    Winslow shooting Elaine's sword away
    The final battle against LeChuck

    Lows:
    The awful Demon LeChuck voice from chapter one
    The Flotsam jungle bits of chapter 1
    Nipperkin
    The way overdone reuse of models in episode 1 (In the other episodes they generally did a better job of masking it if they did it)
  • edited December 2009
    PROS
    -The meaning of Gilbert's first MI title, this Secret, is revealed
    -The dialogue between Anoneme/Applebe and Guybrush
    -The pox put a funny twist on all characters, especially Guybrush's hand
    -Murray and all the references of him that Guybrush makes
    especially, when Guybrush takes off his head
    -pirate swordfighting; however, there wasn't enough of it. Along with the swordfighting, there was the rhyming with a manatee - that was fun
    -there was no Wally - hooray!

    CONS
    -The ending
    - they should have left Guybrush in the Crossroads; that would have been f* hilarious!
    -Sometimes, the dialogue that you click on is not exactly what Guybrush says
    -Guybrush doesn't get the right girl, in the end
    -I couldn't make Guybrush walk wherever he wanted
    -no cannibals!
    -The golden sea turtle should have been a figure of Lemonhead; when it first appears, it is upside down and looks like this cannibal. Why a turtle?
    -the angry faces got tiresome
    -Flotsam jungle got annoyingly tiresome
  • edited December 2009
    Highs:
    • LeChuck really shines throughout TMI, both in his human and undead form. I really enjoyed seeing him portrayed as a scary, powerful and evil villain again, for the first time since MI2. If this was the last we saw of LeChuck, he got an excellent swansong.
    • The writing, while somewhat varying, was generally of a very high standard.
    • New characters like Morgan, DeCava, Winslow and Galeb were very well written and implemented.
    • The varied and imaginative locations made every episode feel fresh and different.
    • The excellent use of Murray in Chapter 3.
    • High-quality voice acting pretty much all around. Finally a voice actor for Stan that kinda fits!

    Lows:
    • Some plot inconsitensies and logical inconsitensies, especially in the last chapter.
    • Puzzle design varied greatly.
    • I would have liked to see a more authentic looking pirate town, like Melée, Phatt or Puerto Pollo - one which actually feels like a town and not just a collection of houses.
    • Although sometimes concealed expertly, there were too many reused character models.
    • Some of the episodes were a bit buggy. I'm hoping some of these bugs will be fixed for the DVD-release.


    I'm sure I could think of more points to add to both sides of this, but overall I am very pleased with TMI.
  • edited December 2009
    Highs:
    • Chapter 1 opening
    • DeSinge's lab puzzle, Chapter 1
    • Human Lechuck Puzzles, Chapter 2
    • Most of Chapter 3, especially Murray
    • Atmosphere in Chapter 4 (and return of Earl Boen)
    • Fight with Lechuck, chapter 5
    • Great voice acting in all episodes

    Lows:
    • Synth music
    • Generic characters on Flotsam
    • Maze puzzles in Chapter 1
    • Merfolk in Chapter 2
  • edited December 2009
    Highs

    -Good use of secondary characters (I really ended up caring for Morgan and Winston... which was incredibly unexpected)

    -Ambitious attempt at writing a "dramatic" adventure game. Previous Telltale games haven't really tried their hand at pathos (with the exception of Sam's personal Hell in Sam and Max 205). Tales jumps into the deep end of drama and really tries hard to deliver.

    -Consistent puzzles

    -Graphics and bright, colorful, and full of personality. Particular praise needs to be given for the land of the dead in the final chapter. It was evocative and incredibly oppressive at the same time.

    -Mostly consistent humor.

    -Great voice work.


    Lows

    -The animation capabilities are starting to show their limitations. Red vs. Blue has shown that, when dealing with comedy, people are willing to accept some stiff, puppet-like animations (not to impugn the work of Rooster Teeth since they put an immense amount of work into their films). Sam and Max benefited from this to some extent; sections that were animated in less-than-ideal fashion were given a pass because the writing was so causticly funny. But Tales of Monkey Island is trying to use its engine to communicate drama, and drama, by the very nature of the art form, is all about the interplay of body language and vocals. When the words don't quite match up with animations (like when the character model is awkwardly smiling when she should be depressed) it does damage to the scene. The animations work 8 out of 10 times, but it's a real shame when they fail, especially since the failures occur during some of the more pivotal emotional scenes. If Telltale wishes to continue working towards writing stories with more pathos (and I hope they do) they should put a larger investment into their animation department and make sure that they can effectively communicate the scene both vocally and visually. The team is almost there... but being so close just makes some of the truly almost-awesome scenes kind of sad.

    -An uneven score that functions well to build mood, but fails to adequately "punch up" the action scenes. I played through the ending several times and I've figured out why the impact is somewhat lessened for me. The animations and blocking are great, but the score sounds utterly disinterested.



    In the end I still really liked Tales of Monkey Island, but I think it needs work. It's an ambitious title, but its own ambitious occasionally hangs around its neck like an albatross. Telltale is really reaching for the brass ring, and if they want to rise to that next echelon they're going to need to finally start doing some serious revisions to their "Telltale tool". Strict comedy can function with occasional animation issues, but drama is a whole different beast. I appreciate the ambition and wish them the best, but Tales shows that Telltale may have reached the extent of what they can do from a technical perspective, even if their writing is continuing to push them higher. Keep pushing yourselves, Telltale.


    PS: Sam and Max 3! YEAH!
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited December 2009
    Highs

    -Good use of secondary characters (I really ended up caring for Morgan and Winston... which was incredibly unexpected)

    Zeddemore_01.jpg
  • edited December 2009
    Hahaha.

    Highs:
    - Monkey Island is back, a greeeeeeeeeeeat return that feels like old MI.
    - Great story, nice look and awesome sound.

    Lows:
    - Maybe too much cinematic scenes? Sometimes you do something that runs on a 'large' animation. That's not bad at all, but, for example, near the end I expected more 'playable' and 'explorable' stuff and a nice final animation. But it's not bad at all.
    - That, for now, there's no official spanish subtitles, and there's no plans for translating voices.
  • edited December 2009
    Highs...
    • the return of Monkey Island and of course Dominic
    • superb story and fantastic cut scenes
    • click and drag (yes, I like it)
    • episode 4... the menu was classic Monkey Island puzzling
    • Pox infected pirates
    • Winslow and Morgan
    • The Voodoo Lady's shack
    • Murray was perfect
    • Seabiscuit!
    • Hook Hook Hook Hook Hook Hook Hook Hook

    Lows...
    • Stan... he looked brilliant but his dialogue didn't seem right
    • The jungle in episode 1
    • Elaine was very very irritating (except when she was pox infected).
    • sometimes the game was a little easy, especially chapter 5
    • the lack of interaction options was disappointing. Guybrush's response to using the 'mouth' function from the verb coin in MI3 on things always resulted in hilarity. I like not knowing what can and can't be picked up.
    • There was no 'one hour later' etc... to show the passage of time (from what I can remember). A Monkey Island tradition.
    • Awww where's the hook gone?
  • edited December 2009
    I love everything for its faults because everything is faulted.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited December 2009
    There was no 'one hour later' etc... to show the passage of time (from what I can remember). A Monkey Island tradition.

    There was one, when Guybrush learns Manatee. ("12 easy steps later" or something to that effect.)
  • edited December 2009
    Highs:
    -Voice Acting (All the characters, but especially Guybrush, Morgan and LeChuck (Kevin Blackton and Earl Boen renditions.)
    -New Characters (especially Van Winslow and Morgan. I feel like they could rightfully take their place amongst the MI pantheon of recurring characters.)
    -LeChuck: Absolutely hilarious as a human, and perhaps the most evil incarnation since MI2 as a demon!
    -Developed characters: I never thought that Tales would end up being such an emotionally involving story! After episode 3 I really started to care about these characters and what they would do in each episode. My heart was actually pounding with excitement during the installation and actual play throughs of the final two episodes!
    -Humor. I haven't laughed this hard at a Monkey Island game... Well, ever really! Episode 3 especially had moments that still crack me up, even months afterward.

    Lows:
    -The music was adequate, but not as good as the other games. I usually walk away from a MI game humming at least four different themes from the game for a week afterward. The only theme from Tales that I can even remember is DeSinge, which is damn good. It's just a shame there aren't more like it.
    -The ending. Tales was such a sweeping and grand journey and the ending just... Kind of left me feeling cold. But that's also kind of good because if the ending was as much of a trip as the rest of the series then there probably wouldn't be room for a sequel...
  • edited December 2009
    I spent a bunch of time typing out a long response with my list of highs and lows, and the forum ate it I guess. Now it's gone.

    Mainly I wanted to ask, why all the hate for the jungle treasure hunt puzzles from Chapter 1? I had put that one on my "highs" list. I'm a sucker for sound-based puzzles...

    And I wanted to thank Telltale for a great season of episodic goodness.
  • edited December 2009
    bobhobbit wrote: »
    I spent a bunch of time typing out a long response with my list of highs and lows, and the forum ate it I guess. Now it's gone.
    In case you're using Firefox - there's a remedy for post-eating forums: the Lazarus[sic!] add-on... :D
  • edited December 2009
    Highs:
    -The returning of many much loved characters (Guybrush, LeChuck, Elaine, Voodoo Lady, Murray and Stan)
    -Some fun new characters were introduced (Winslow, Morgan and DeSinge)
    -Great voice acting from the whole cast
    -Wonderful character animation with lots of personality
    -Pleasing-to-the-eye visual style
    -LeChuck's human and demon forms were so different and they both worked wonderfully!
    -Beautiful and atmospheric musical soundtrack by Michael Land
    -The puzzles were very in-spirit with the other MI games - at no point did I ask myself "is this really a Monkey Island game?" - I was sure of it the whole time!
    -Face-off!
    -Insult swordfighting was included (if only for a short time) in a creative way
    -Excellent storytelling
    -Great cut-scenes - some hilarious, some emotional, some just visually stunning
    -Very well-written dialogue with tons of memorable lines
    -The Guybrush Dance
    -The Max and Crossbones flag at the end!

    Lows:
    -A few loose ends were not tied (though in all fairness, that does scream second season!)
    -Some of the new character designs (like the poxed pirates) are a bit similar and therefore not as interesting as they could have been, in appearance and personality
    -Quite a few repetitive puzzles which, although were well-designed, got tiresome
    -Visual effects could have been expanded on with more details added

    Well done, Telltale! Overall very impressed :D
  • edited December 2009
    feverfew wrote: »
    LOWS

    Plot inconsistencies
    The ending decision to cancel all the plot changes (Guybrush gets his hand back, body recovered, everybody's happy... swell. Where is the price to pay?) Why didn't we end at the Crossroads? That'd be more mature storytelling.

    Although I doubt they change all that much in the game for forum feedback, there was a majority of people on a poll a while back saying they didn't want it all up in the air; they wanted a finished, self-contained story by the end of the series.

    Okay, Highs:
    Storytelling in ep3
    Interesting atmospheres in chp4/chp5 and nice looking locations in 3/4/5
    good background characters (Winslow, Morgan, Bugeye, Santino etc.)
    puzzles got better as the game went on
    Specifically, the court-room idea (even if it perhaps continued too long) and the final battle, and the leviathan thing, and the map jokes, and Guybrush's reaction to offensive poxed Elaine, and the interrogation thing with Santino & Bugeye, and.... yeah okay, many highs :)

    Lows:
    Initial puzzles weren't brilliant
    ep1 felt a little bit frustrated before I knew how relatively epic the story would be later in the game
    Vaycalean/mermaid/thingy stuff didn't feel like it fitted in very well. Though Amenonomenany was fun
    Initially, many poor background characters (the glass-blower-guy, D'oro, crazy-cat-guy etc.)


    Overall, more highs than lows, and most of the lows can be put down to almost random hit-or-miss aspects to game making (whether fans like specific ideas)
  • edited December 2009
    Jake wrote: »
    There was one, when Guybrush learns Manatee. ("12 easy steps later" or something to that effect.)

    Oh yes, you're right of course! I retract that then :)
  • edited December 2009
    Lows:
    -The music was adequate, but not as good as the other games. I usually walk away from a MI game humming at least four different themes from the game for a week afterward. The only theme from Tales that I can even remember is DeSinge, which is damn good. It's just a shame there aren't more like it.

    De Cava's theme is awesome, nicely done in Episode 2 as Roe Island, the full version and At Sea version are just catchy. I also liked Murray's theme. Not a lot of people liked Flotsam Town but I did, especially with all it's re-worked versions through the series, just the part from 1:17 onwards makes it feel so homely and piratey, the only problem with it is the slow build up to that part, most people won't stay around Flotsam that long to let it play, haha.
  • edited December 2009
    There were very few things I didn't like.. Pretty much everyone has already mentioned the flaws with episode 1, which had one very boring puzzle and awkward character models. I also would have liked some higher quality sound, but my only really big issue was with the control, even by chapter 5 I did not like the mouse drag system.. Keeping it point and click would have been much prefered by me.

    But those aside, I loved pretty much everything about the game. I think it struck the right balance of creating new content/story points and referencing the older games. They could have easily relied on poking fun at the old games and just "hey, remember this?!". But they mostly kept that to a minimum, I liked seeing Stan and Murry again but it was good that they didn't go overboard.. I was expecting Toothrot and Wally among others to show up by the end.

    I know some strongly disagree with this, but I also liked the more logical puzzle design. In the original MI's too many of the puzzles were very obscure and I only solved most of them by randomly trying everything with everything else. Tales was perhaps a bit easier because of this, but I felt it made it a lot more satisfying when you actually worked something out, rather than randomly stumbling upon the solution.
  • edited December 2009
    Highs:
    Personality. Many of the secondary characters have the same tall 'Bugeye' model or the squat 'Winslow' model, but in spite of that, many do shine in terms of personality. Kudos to the writers and voice actors for that.
    Speaking of voice actors, Dominic Armato, Kevin Blackton and Jared Emerson-Johnson stood out especially as Guybrush, human LeChuck and De Singe.


    Lows:
    Copypasta from another topic:
    pluizig wrote: »
    1. Don't have everyone have a secret agenda or master plan, thus ending the story with everyone screwing each other over.

    This is good. (LeChuck in Tales)
    This is bad. (Elaine, Voodoo Lady)
    This should be avoided at all costs. (Rise of the Pirate God)

    2. No more overreliance on scavenger hunts "Voodoo recipes" as puzzles.
  • edited December 2009
    pluizig wrote: »
    Highs:
    Personality. Many of the secondary characters have the same tall 'Bugeye' model or the squat 'Winslow' model, but in spite of that, many do shine in terms of personality.

    Bugeye only shares his model with the Swordmaster, I believe. From chapter 3 on, almost all new characters were unique models.
  • edited December 2009
    Really? I didn't notice much difference with Crimpdigit, Hemlock, Moose and Trenchfoot, for example.
  • edited December 2009
    Yeah, just like I don't notice too much difference between Tony Blair, David Cameron and Nick Clegg ;)

    The problem is that in a 2d adventure, you could simply draw a cabana boy, guybrush, and a pale guy on the beach (for example) and whatever they did, it would be more or less the same drawing. With 3d, you are limited.
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