Some thinking about a "Tales of Monkey Island Season 2", Mark Darin, and the "time"
This "Tales of Monkey Island" for me was an excellent work, and, as a beginning, I think was the best work that could be done. As a beginning.
In fact, if I want to thank the Telltale for giving us one of the best Monkey Island game ever (for me is an almost-full 9.5/10), I think that they can also do better in the next season. Because so many thinks were good, and so many thinks could have been better.
So, if I can give an advice to TellTale, now you make a big toast for the success all together
, because you deserve it, but then, plan to eliminate the weaknessess of the game, and improve the strenghts...
For example, for me in the Episode 5, the design of the Crossroads, and of the LeChuck ship were the true example of how every thing in graphics should have been better, for example in episode one or three, with better light effects, more complex textures, and more complex 3d models. Because in Monkey Island, graphic and atmosphere are very, very important.
And, the general advice for the future, is to take more time to create thing BEFORE, so to avoid these "last minute run". Because, as showed in Episode 5, if you take more time to elaborate graphic and music, the result is absolutely awesome. And if you run too much, it's evident in the final result.
Talking about the gameplay, I think that Grossman and Stemmle did a wonderful work. Episode 1 was funny. Episode 3 was a masterpiece in gameplay. Absolutely various and pure fun. And Episode 4 was well-builded and hard.
But Mark Darin should have done something better, I think. I loved also Episode 2 and 5 because, i repeat, I generally LOVE the game. Expecially Episode 5 for me was a wonderful explosion of emotions. But I think that these 2 episode were a little worse in gameplay. Too much repetitive, simple, and with too many narrative forcings and "reverse puzzles"
For the one that don't know what's a reverse puzzle : in an adventure the goal is understanding what to do BEFORE, and how to do it AFTER. Reverse puzzle is when you almost randomly combine the objects you have, and only then you understand what's the goal of it. And should be avoided
So, at the end, i think that the next season should have FIVE EPISODES with :
The various gameplay of "Lair of Leviathan"
The challenging puzzles of "Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood"
The well-written secondary characters of "Lair" and "Trial" (expecially of the first)
The characters-model variety of "Trial and Execution" and "Rise of the Pirate God" (expecially this last one)
The graphics, colors and music of "Rise of pirate the god" and "Siege of Spinner Cay" (expecially of the first)
And, obviously, Reginald Van Winslow
So in the future, take your time, and stop with the recycled short pirate-tall pirate models (the only short pirate model we want to see is WINSLOW ), with the MIDI music, and you will make the perfect game, and the ultimate Monkey Island.
I hope this can arrive to the Telltale team, and, all the thing I wrote were in my opinion, so I hope that all of you can write here your opinions about a next season, and strenght and weaknesses of this first game, too!!!
Allways thank you for the work!!!
In fact, if I want to thank the Telltale for giving us one of the best Monkey Island game ever (for me is an almost-full 9.5/10), I think that they can also do better in the next season. Because so many thinks were good, and so many thinks could have been better.
So, if I can give an advice to TellTale, now you make a big toast for the success all together
, because you deserve it, but then, plan to eliminate the weaknessess of the game, and improve the strenghts...For example, for me in the Episode 5, the design of the Crossroads, and of the LeChuck ship were the true example of how every thing in graphics should have been better, for example in episode one or three, with better light effects, more complex textures, and more complex 3d models. Because in Monkey Island, graphic and atmosphere are very, very important.
And, the general advice for the future, is to take more time to create thing BEFORE, so to avoid these "last minute run". Because, as showed in Episode 5, if you take more time to elaborate graphic and music, the result is absolutely awesome. And if you run too much, it's evident in the final result.
Talking about the gameplay, I think that Grossman and Stemmle did a wonderful work. Episode 1 was funny. Episode 3 was a masterpiece in gameplay. Absolutely various and pure fun. And Episode 4 was well-builded and hard.
But Mark Darin should have done something better, I think. I loved also Episode 2 and 5 because, i repeat, I generally LOVE the game. Expecially Episode 5 for me was a wonderful explosion of emotions. But I think that these 2 episode were a little worse in gameplay. Too much repetitive, simple, and with too many narrative forcings and "reverse puzzles"
For the one that don't know what's a reverse puzzle : in an adventure the goal is understanding what to do BEFORE, and how to do it AFTER. Reverse puzzle is when you almost randomly combine the objects you have, and only then you understand what's the goal of it. And should be avoided
So, at the end, i think that the next season should have FIVE EPISODES with :
The various gameplay of "Lair of Leviathan"
The challenging puzzles of "Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood"
The well-written secondary characters of "Lair" and "Trial" (expecially of the first)
The characters-model variety of "Trial and Execution" and "Rise of the Pirate God" (expecially this last one)
The graphics, colors and music of "Rise of pirate the god" and "Siege of Spinner Cay" (expecially of the first)
And, obviously, Reginald Van Winslow
So in the future, take your time, and stop with the recycled short pirate-tall pirate models (the only short pirate model we want to see is WINSLOW
), with the MIDI music, and you will make the perfect game, and the ultimate Monkey Island.I hope this can arrive to the Telltale team, and, all the thing I wrote were in my opinion, so I hope that all of you can write here your opinions about a next season, and strenght and weaknesses of this first game, too!!!
Allways thank you for the work!!!
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
Maybe they need two guys, one to concentrate on writng and the other on design, the way Joe Pinney and Sean Vanaman do it? I'm not saying that Stemmle or Darin were underwhelming (I am a huge fan of both, and they both delivered), but there were some bits here and there that maybe needed a little time, or maybe needed a little polish, and having more people working on something might help. Leviathan is a good example of how to intertwine design and writing, on how make the puzzles an essential part of the story.
Like I said, though: it's all been great. Tales has been the highlight of my year in gaming.
Absolutely agree with all of this.
And also with the fact that Tales has been for me one of the best, and more emotionally-involving game of the last years. But in every way I can't lose the feeling that something better can be done, just with some little adjustement, and I have absolutely faith that they will be able to understand how to do this in the future...
I don't say that was a bad work. As Kroms said, Darin improved himself as a writer also from Episode 2 to Episode 5. But I think that the Episode 3 and 4 remain the perfect "ideal" landmarks for a very good puzzle building in the future.
Stemmle, I'd say that finally can take off the stain of Monkey 4, and take a medal.
However, I like the puzzle in spinner cay,and many more. So I do not understand where is this ugliness of gameplay!
I love Spinner Cay however, the rythm, the adventure and the atmosphere of that episode were awesome. Simply it was'nt the best in puzzle building and in secondary characters writing, in my opinion. For that, Episode 3 and 4 were much much better...I'm only trying to focus on the best strenghts of the episodes to make some personal advice...I repeat that all "Tales of Monkey Island" was one of the best MI ever, but if they focus on its strenghts and weaknesses, the TellTale can make the BEST Monkey Island ever...
How can you say that about Anemone?! :eek: Not to mention Hardtack and McCormick!
For the puzzle I like how they were built. For example egnima of having to merge the artifact was very nice.
You have to consider that we are in another story, a substory, and I think this fits perfectly with the 12 rules of Gilbert.
Were all very nice, but for me not as brilliant as Bugeye, Santino, Moose, Judge Grindstump...
Stemmle too. He is a fantastic writer, one who can write brilliantly surreal comedy and then write a dramatic scene that takes something funny and makes it poignant ("UNHOLY THIS!"). His characters have been very good (though it took me until Chapter Four to warm up to Flotsam's residents). All I'm saying is that everyone still has a little to learn about weaving in design with their story. I only say this because of the disturbingly large amount of talent at Telltale. In many other cases I'd just say, "Yeah, good job. I loved it," and I do here, but they still have a little bit to learn, that's all.
SurplusGamer once cited the beginning of Monkey 2 as a great example of this. The more you do, the more you learn about Largo LaGrande, and the more you find out about why he needs to go. There's elements of that throughout Tales (especially in 3 and 4), which is why I'm so interested in Telltale's future endeavors.
Again: I love the games and I have enormous respect for the talent behind them. I idolize the Telltale staff, no exceptions. These games mean so much to me. But there's definitely room for improvement, just to match the talent's potential. Like, I dunno, promising all these areas you could go to in Spinner Cay, and then having one area, a replica of Flotsam's jungle, some barren islands as being the places you could actually go to.
Anemone I liked a lot. But there wasn't the same feeling of knowing that is noted for example in the crazy Marty (of MI2)
Perfect, I totally agree, this was the point in this thread.
I know that everyone (or almost) liked Spinner Cay, and Rise of Pirate God, and Anemone, and all the rest of the game.
But if we focus a little bit on the things in which we think that Darin, and Stemmle, and the other can improve themselves, I think that we can give them precious advices, and maybe help them to completelly use the still greater potential that they have.
It's true. Anemone ended up annoying me by the end of the game. I had no problem with mermen, but the whole overly cowardly character always bugged me. I mean she was a whimpering coward! I don't mind it if the character has charm in their cowardice, or has a bit of gravitas attached, but Anemone was just like "NOOOOOOOO my shadow!!! Save me!!!"
One of the things I like about Leviathan is that the characters contribute as much to the puzzles - as characters - as the player does. Guybrush freaking out at Bugeye, for example, during the face-off (see what I did there?). The story just seems intertwined.
I'm sure they can learn, especially from each other. I have faith in Telltale.
ive already forgotten who hardtack and McCormick were, so clearly somethings not right, anemone was cool though, in a creepy sorta way, hence why i remembered the character
*Not that I'm complaining, Gabez; you did a marvellous job and at least made it readable.
If you want a Monkey Island with brilliant textures and graphics then you shouldn't be looking to Telltale. They're brilliant writers, a friendly-faced company amongst soulless corporations, but they don't have/don't want to have (possibly because of the Wii obsession) the space for all these extra textures.
It doesn't fit into their episodic-one-a-month schedule, it doesn't give Wii users good value for money when their glorified SNES won't run more than Castle Wolfenstein, and it'll potentially raise costs more than it will raise income. Monkey Island being a possible exception in the later case.
Not sure about that, but it's clear to me that Sean and Jake both should have a much bigger role in the next season. To me they're like Stephen Moffat writing Dr. Who. The other episodes are good, sure. Great, even. But from what I've seen of Sean and Jake they just really seem to have this deep -understanding- of what makes everything work.
Well, I don't want an "Assassin's Creed"-style graphic for Monkey Island. For me a "Rise of Pirate God"-like graphic for five episodes is enough
If I had five episodes with all Floatsam at day - style islands like in "Launch of The Screaming Narwhal", I think that I would'nt appreciate the game so much. This is Monkey Island, and so the atmosphere is very very important.
For me the TellTale goal for the next season (if there will be one. And it there MUST be) is taking the excellent parts of the single episodes of this season, and putting together in ALL the episodes. They can take the fifth for graphics, music and epic. The third for the various gameplay. The fourth for hard puzzles and solid story. Et cetera. If they did something at best for an episode, they can do it for all the episodes. But maybe they must take more time, and maybe more people working at it. Or maybe simply they have to build more things before announcing the game...fast running is never the best for a game...
Also I thought that there was too much emphasis on scavenger hunts in the last two episodes. The whole meal of the senses/escape the underworld/shrink the esponja spell thing felt more like "See if you can find these random objects we listed" than an actual puzzle with a sensible story behind it, and I'm not too keen on the former.
The graphics in episode 5 really were great. Both the underworld and LeChuck's ship. I remember how, when seeing those concepts of the locations, I wished that the actual game could look like that, and it turned out that it actually did look a lot like it. Really nice.
Telltale have come a long way since the first Sam & Max episode... I'm hoping they continue that trend.
You forget Joe Pinney.
It occurred to me the other day what you meant by "better" puzzle/story blending. I've been thinking that you were specifically referring to scenes like Guybrush freaking out in Bugeye's face or Morgan throwing away Guybrush's photo - both reactions to the face puzzle. But after you mentioned Largo LaGrande - the more you learn about him as you pick up things to kick him out of town, the more you realise he needs to go - I realised you were also thinking of the scene where you check Morgan's pulse. The more you do the more you learn about her.
I still say that chapter four had a good grasp on everything, though I wish Mike Stemmle would stop sticking in a maze for his ingredients list. Well, even if you did have a maze, it'd be nice to know what everyone is up to as we went along in it.
Edit: Ah, also Sister Agnes. Pulling out a thread of Noogie's past to break him is good design.