Bring back the darkness and adult-ness of MI2

For the next season.

I LOVED TMI, but for whatever comes next please make it darker, less cartoony, less 100% translations of the concept art (it's great, but it should be a concept, not an actual translation), and more piratey please

EDIT:

Basically the buildings like the Flotsam Times and Crimpdigits house are just a bit much for my tastes. That and the proportions and skewed angles
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Comments

  • edited April 2010
    TOMI was dark and less cartoony. How much darker can it get? Do you want LeChuck to pull someone's eyeballs out and feed them to his rabid demon dogs?
  • edited April 2010
    I heard they thought about having Guybrush pant-less the entire game but couldn't figure out how to work it into the story.*


    *entirely fabricated
  • edited April 2010
    Are we caught in a time loop, where the same topics keep happening over and over again until we do them the right way?

    clock_groundhog_day.jpg
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    DeLuca wrote: »
    For the next season.

    I LOVED TMI, but for whatever comes next please make it darker, less cartoony, less 100% translations of the concept art (it's great, but it should be a concept, not an actual translation), and more piratey please

    Okay.


    Wait whats this thread?

    Oh yeah, this again! If we do another Monkey game (which would be cool, but we aren't right now, if you're curious), I'm sure we'll take a lot of what we learned during the course of Tales and apply it. That includes pushing the creepy/dramatic stuff more, which I think we did more and more as the series went on (to the liking of most who played). I don't think Monkey 2 was truly "dark" or "adult," but they were definitely willing to go for contrast, and the story was willing to take itself seriously when it needed it. I personally think Tales did that a fair amount for a modern Monkey game, I think even maybe more than it gets credit for, but it's something I've always loved about Monkey Island and would hope whatever comes next, they go for it in that department.
    TOMI was dark and less cartoony. How much darker can it get? Do you want LeChuck to pull someone's eyeballs out and feed them to his rabid demon dogs?
    No season 2 spoilers please.
  • edited April 2010
    Jake just effectively confirmed that they are making a second season of ToMI..and everybody knows that if Jake says it then it must be true!!

    Also, I've discovered a great way of making ToMI darker for those who think that it wasn't dark enough. I have this button on my monitor (I'm not sure if all monitors have this..mine is rather old so newer models may not have such a button) that whenever I press it the whole screen suddenly becomes very dark and mysterious..even that green light on the front turns off!

    The computer stays turned on but the screen becomes a dark, spooky, creepy, mysterious mystery of strange mystery. I highly recommend playing ToMI this way if you think it wasn't dark enough. As I said though, I don't know if new monitors have such a button as this.

    Oh, and I was actually able to find some ancient hieroglyph that closely resembles the image on the button:

    icon-power-button.gif

    So strange..I wonder what it could mean. Definitely something along the lines of "Activate Dark and Mysterious Mode".
  • edited April 2010
    jake just effectively confirmed that they are making a second season of tomi..and everybody knows that if jake says it then it must be true!!

    Also, i've discovered a great way of making tomi darker for those who think that it wasn't dark enough. I have this button on my monitor (i'm not sure if all monitors have this..mine is rather old so newer models may not have such a button) that whenever i press it the whole screen suddenly becomes very dark and mysterious..even that green light on the front turns off!

    The computer stays turned on but the screen becomes a dark, spooky, creepy, mysterious mystery of strange mystery. I highly recommend playing tomi this way if you think it wasn't dark enough. As i said though, i don't know if new monitors have such a button as this.

    Oh, and i was actually able to find some ancient hieroglyph that closely resembles the image on the button:

    icon-power-button.gif

    so strange..i wonder what it could mean. Definitely something along the lines of "activate dark and mysterious mode".

    hahaha!
  • edited April 2010
    Guybrush got killed in ToMI...literally died. How could they have made it darker? Also, LeChuck physically beat the crap out of Guybrush in the final episode.
    I thought it was completely dark enough and I don't know why we're having these same threads over and over again. First the controls thread and now this one. Is ToMI coming out all over again? :rolleyes:
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    plrichard wrote: »
    Is ToMI coming out all over again? :rolleyes:

    Hopefully, since that would mean a bunch more people would play it. Gotta take the good with the bad, you know.
  • edited April 2010
    I feel like Tales had the perfect amount of darkness and angst. Parts of chapter four especially were pretty depressing, so I don't really think that envelope needs to be pushed too much further. If Season 2 ever happened, they shouldn't play it safe but the games don't need much more darkness.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited April 2010
    Jake wrote: »
    No season 2 spoilers please.



    Yay! Season 2 confirmed!

    /thread
  • edited April 2010
    Yay! Season 2 confirmed!

    /thread
    Jake just effectively confirmed that they are making a second season of ToMI..and everybody knows that if Jake says it then it must be true!!

    See:
    Jake wrote: »
    If we do another Monkey game (which would be cool, but we aren't right now, if you're curious)
    :p
  • edited April 2010
    TOMI was dark and less cartoony. How much darker can it get? Do you want LeChuck to pull someone's eyeballs out and feed them to his rabid demon dogs?

    thats my recuring nightmare but with a giant marshmallow doing it insted of lechuck
  • edited April 2010
    You know.

    MI2 *does* feel a lot darker then TOMI. One reason is the art style (dead cook anyone?), but I feel the largest part of it is the atmosphere, and quite a lot of that can be attributed to not having voices.

    And that ship has sailed about 15 years ago as far as adventure games go. I think I might replay TOMI parts 3, 4 & 5 with subs only and see how it goes.
  • edited April 2010
    OK.

    Look for it sometime this summer.
  • edited April 2010
    Sometimes I do wonder if I played the same MI 2 as some people...
  • edited April 2010
    DeLuca wrote: »
    For the next season.

    I LOVED TMI, but for whatever comes next please make it darker, less cartoony, less 100% translations of the concept art (it's great, but it should be a concept, not an actual translation), and more piratey please

    So which wasnt dark enough, guybrushes hand beong chopped off, when lechuck
    killed Morgan AND Guybrush
    Desinge
    gets crushed to death
    , or was when Elaine
    left guybrush Lechuck and then nearly killed guybrush again,
    you know what, I bet it was the final boss when Lechuck beats guybrush to a pulp. No who am I kidding this was what needed to be darker.
  • edited April 2010
    I'm tired of Monkey 2 fans thinking things should be darker all the time. I want to make a case of CMI and more importantly TMI having as much dark and gloomy crap as MI2 - the real MI2, not the one you created from nostalgic tears and sighs about the "good old days". More importantly, I want to tell you that you make yourself look like a bunch of My Chemical Romance fans when you do it.

    This is all in here apart from all the bits like stuffing the monkey down your pants, the part where Guybrush lights a match, finds himself in a room of dynamite and flies out of LeChuck's fortress just like in every freaking cartoon. Or Guybrush's mouth literally dropping? Do you remember that?
    Dark:
    auschwitz1249692479.jpg
    Not dark:
    mi2costume11.png

    Dark:
    10-medieval-torture-devices8.jpg

    Not dark. Notice the especially not dark moose:
    screen06.gif

    Dark:
    486458832_d0931ca5ce_o.jpg

    Not dark:
    screen03.gif

    Dark:
    050301_btk_hmed11a.hmedium.jpg

    Not dark. Notice the especially not very dark library:
    mi2demof.png
  • edited April 2010
    What exactly makes MI2 darker and adulter?

    LeChuck's Fortress, for one. Largo's reign of terror on Scabb. Then digging up Largo's grandfather. The graveyard. The swamp, rowing the coffin and the bats. The whole Rap Scallion thing. The tiranic governor of Phatt. The skeleton in the bathtub. The dream sequence. Wally's kidnapping. The ending chase sequence. And all that done in a - at the time - very detailed graphic style. It just didn't look as cartooney as more recent installments of the game. It was done in the same style as the more realistic "Fate of Atlantis". A lot of that is atmosphere and design.

    But as the examples above show, there are many silly things as well.

    I like how Telltale has combined a more cartooney style with a darker story. I don't think you can change the designs of characters and scenery in a more serious way without losing the humoristic side of the series. You can have a game in that fashion but it wouldn't be a Monkey Island game. I think the Tales already have a good balance and trying too hard to go in one particular direction might make the whole thing tip over.
  • edited April 2010
    What exactly makes MI2 darker and adulter?

    LeChuck's Fortress, for one. Largo's reign of terror on Scabb. Then digging up Largo's grandfather. The graveyard. The swamp, rowing the coffin and the bats. The whole Rap Scallion thing. The tiranic governor of Phatt. The skeleton in the bathtub. The dream sequence. Wally's kidnapping. The ending chase sequence. And all that done in a - at the time - very detailed graphic style. It just didn't look as cartooney as more recent installments of the game. It was done in the same style as the more realistic "Fate of Atlantis". A lot of that is atmosphere and design.

    LeChuck's fortress was always ironically dark, to me.

    Largo wasn't much of a reign of terror either, though he was a bully. And one who got kicked off the island with his tongue sticking out of his mouth and his hands over his butt.

    And while exhumation, graveyards, coffins-for-boats, resurrecting the dead and skeletons are all rather dark, too much of it is a bad thing. More to the point, one has to remember that Guybrush, in TMI, kills McGillicutty, feeds a crew to a giant manatee, gets his hand cut off, has his friend/enemy dies in his arms, is killed, is betrayed by his wife, resurrects the dead, ppps out of a graveyard himself, is zapped out of existence at least once, meets a little nerd who "moves to a farm upstate", conjurs several voodoo curses, talks to a resurrected dead seagull, screws over a bunch of people, wins their cases in court, electrocutes a monkey and probably paralyzes a cat. If that isn't dark as hell, then please go back to the Middle Ages. Or read up on Josef Fritz.
  • edited April 2010
    Wasn't LeChuck's Fortress called something silly like LeChuck's Fortress Spa and Resort or something like that?
  • edited April 2010
    I certainly agree about Tales. I never questioned that. LCR adds more scary children's story clichés, but for a twelve year old in 1991, playing the game for the first time, that pushed the right buttons. Replaying the game now all that stuff kinda moves to the background, but I'll never forget being scared that LeChuck would show up somewhere. It's the suggestion of an actual menace that does the trick.
  • edited April 2010
    Giant Tope wrote:
    Wasn't LeChuck's Fortress called something silly like LeChuck's Fortress Spa and Resort or something like that?

    Yep.

    To: The Ghost Pirate LeChuck
    c/o LeChuck's Island Getaway & Spa
    Contents: Misc. Voodoo Supplies.


    Says so on the box the Voodoo Lady ships out.
    I certainly agree about Tales. I never questioned that. LCR adds more scary children's story clichés, but for a twelve year old in 1991, playing the game for the first time, that pushed the right buttons. Replaying the game now all that stuff kinda moves to the background, but I'll never forget being scared that LeChuck would show up somewhere. It's the suggestion of an actual menace that does the trick.

    I think people confuse "dark" or "length" with "depth", in this case the feeling that LeChuck was always around, an omnipresent being that shows up occasionally, like when your parents' skeletons dancing or in a cutscene, pissed off at you and Largo. In a way, he's always there. There's more going on in the background than the foreground, like in the original Manchurian Candidate movie.
  • edited April 2010
    Just a couple...
    What exactly makes MI2 darker and adulter?

    LeChuck's Fortress, for one.

    The one where you escape by spitting into another person?

    With a room full of dynamite in the most typical Looney Toons fashion?
    Then digging up Largo's grandfather.
    Yep , it was dramatic when Guybrush's pants drops down, in that great serious moment.
    The whole Rap Scallion thing.
    Yep, whose dramatic quest to rest in peace was to check if the gas was off. And it was dark when when his cook hat materializes out of nowhere.
    The tiranic governor of Phatt.
    The Fat Guy being feed with tubes each couple of minutes?
  • edited April 2010
    If I recall correctly,
    Morgan's death in Ep.4
    is the first ever serious moment in the Monkey Island series.

    Also, I agree that Monkey Island should have more serious moments, as it gives more depth to the characters. I love how in the final battle of ToMI, we actually see Guybrush not kicking LeChuck's butt, but the other way around. It really shows a new side of Guybrush's story, one that contrasts with what we've seen before, making it more powerful.
  • edited April 2010
    I told you there were many silly things as well, but still impressive of you to add the comedic counterweight of each of my referrals. I didn't bother adding them myself, since I was mostly talking about the graphical design of those scenes, not so much what happens in them.

    You forgot mentioning Guybrush ducking in time to avoid the guard's bullet on Phatt. Also very Looney Tunes.
  • edited April 2010
    Oh, about TOMI, remember we have a crazy not french doctor going around AMPUTATING people without need to. We even had a guy show up missing an eye, and not wearing an eye patch over the hole.

    And you picking up all the "discarded" limbs as inventory...
  • edited April 2010
    TMI had the highest death count of all MI games I think
  • edited April 2010
    TMI had the highest death count of all MI games I think

    I thought I was playing a Schwarzenegger/Stallone game.
  • edited April 2010
    I think one of the main reasons MI2 felt so dark was because the atmosphere it managed to achieve. Also, like in progressive music (fans of that knows what I mean), contrasts makes the individual parts so much stronger. Like when Guybrush falls at the Big Tree, making it seem like he died with that really dark passage to red-tinted backgrounds, then suddenly turning into a humorous skeleton dance number. The whole game goes like that, it's an emotional rollercoaster. The sad and serious tone of the music playing while speaking to Rapp Scallion, and funny writing. The extremely dark tunnel chase, with sillly jokes and obvious references to pop culture. It's all thanks to the incredible soundtrack and amazing graphics that manages to portray a cartoony and funny game into something dark and serious. That's something CMI managed very well at some points too, like the whole Blood Island "level". That said, TOMI also had a lot of very dark moments, including the first genuinely dark moment at the end of chapter 4. Which happens to be my favourite part, along with chapter 5. The problem with ToMI though, was the music. It didn't really managed to grab me as much as MI1, 2 or Curse did. Heck, some of EMI's music was better even (an otherwise weaker game). Maybe because it felt like ToMI didn't push the music enough.
  • edited April 2010
    I'd agree about the voices-taking-away-from-moodiness thing, but what about CMI?

    Oh wait, Blood Island.

    I think I'll try ToMI without voices when the DVD arrives...
  • edited April 2010
    I think voice-over can add to the atmosphere of a scene instead of detract from if, if done right. And so far, barring MI1:SE in places, voice-overs for the Monkey Island games have been pretty great.
  • edited April 2010
    Wait, what? Tales is less dark than MI2 now? I'd say that Trial and Execution has definitely capped MI2 as far as darkness is concerned.
    It has on-screen character death (a first for the series) not once but twice
    and at no point in these scenes does anyone's pants fall down. And it manages to pull this off without it seeming too much or out of place with the series. (okay, so that's not really relevant, but it's another reason why I love Tales so much)

    I'm not denying that MI2 was dark, especially the last part where you're being chased around by LeChuck. But as other folk have pointed out, MI2 also tended to balance the darker moments with comedy, like Guybrush's pants falling down, giving LeChuck a wedgie, that kind of thing. I thought that the balance they achieved in the latter episodes of Tales (specifically the last three) was perfect, I wouldn't like to see things getting much darker than that.
  • edited April 2010
    I think the reason people can't agree is because they're mixing up design with content. Contextually speaking, Tales was probably darker than MI2, but artistically, MI2 was a tiny bit gloomier. I agree with lord darkstorm that part of the reason is the lack of voices, and not only that, but realistically drawn (to an extent) faces and expressions.
  • edited April 2010
    What about all the Looney Tunes-style expressions that Guybrush makes at various points in MI2? (eyes bugging out, hair flying off etc) That happens quite a few times, and I'm pretty sure that MI2 is the only game that uses that kind of animations for him. Could be wrong though.
  • edited April 2010
    MI2 definitely went more cartoonier than SMI was. Even with the animations (as goofy as SMI's was).
  • edited April 2010
    Pale Man wrote: »
    Are we caught in a time loop, where the same topics keep happening over and over again until we do them the right way?

    clock_groundhog_day.jpg

    Then put your little hand in mine
    There ain't no hill or mountain we can't climb
    Babe
    I got you babe

    "okay campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cold out there today..."
  • edited April 2010
    It's cold out there everyday.
  • edited April 2010
    all that matters to me is harder puzzles and much more detailed, rich environments
  • edited April 2010
    Eduardo wrote: »
    Just a couple...



    The one where you escape by spitting into another person?

    With a room full of dynamite in the most typical Looney Toons fashion?


    Yep , it was dramatic when Guybrush's pants drops down, in that great serious moment.


    Yep, whose dramatic quest to rest in peace was to check if the gas was off. And it was dark when when his cook hat materializes out of nowhere.


    The Fat Guy being feed with tubes each couple of minutes?
    Exactly, it was. That's called black humour and it was something that made mi2 so good.
  • edited April 2010
    I think it's called dark humour in english, but in Norway we say black humour ("svart humor"). It's not in any way related to the color of the skin, btw.

    But yeah, MI2 was a master at dark humour. And the game was a lot grittier too, because of the graphics and the music. It had this sad undertone almost all of the time, made the game feel really moody. As I said in my post, the contrasts made the elements a lot more powerful than it would be without it.
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