Speaking of the "Good / Evil Balance"
I've just watched some EMI walkthrough video and found a comment on it which I found very interesting:
"Funny how is Escape form monkey Island, the aim is to save all the pirates from the effects of the ultimate insult and becoming too soft and submissive.
Yet in Tales of monkey Island, they need to stop the effects of the Pox of LeChuck before it turns all the pirates to hard and evil"
I've never thought of that before but it actually matches perfectly with the new found facts about the Voodoo Lady and her control of the "tides of destiny", helping / making Guybrush to do things that balance good and evil.
Also, this is the first time I realize the similarity between the giant shell and the wind machine, especially in their function as an amplifier.
Coincidence? There have been fairly few references to EMI in Tales, but there might actually be a story connection here. What do you guys think?
"Funny how is Escape form monkey Island, the aim is to save all the pirates from the effects of the ultimate insult and becoming too soft and submissive.
Yet in Tales of monkey Island, they need to stop the effects of the Pox of LeChuck before it turns all the pirates to hard and evil"
I've never thought of that before but it actually matches perfectly with the new found facts about the Voodoo Lady and her control of the "tides of destiny", helping / making Guybrush to do things that balance good and evil.
Also, this is the first time I realize the similarity between the giant shell and the wind machine, especially in their function as an amplifier.
Coincidence? There have been fairly few references to EMI in Tales, but there might actually be a story connection here. What do you guys think?
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The risk Monkey Island runs is is redundancy.
Basically LeChuck comes back more fantastically powerful than before, then there's always some great threat to the caribbean (I think this was a new dynamic that emanates from CMI) E.g. Big Whoop will turn every pirate into the undead; Ultimate Insult will stupefy every pirate, Pox makes every pirate sociopathic, culminating in anarchy and eventual dissolution.
But to bundle say the Ultimate Insult and the Pox, given their parallel nature, is an excellent rise for the Voodoo Lady to take control of the Caribbean.
When you think about it the Ultimate Insult and the Pox were not intentional plans set out by LeChuck, even though he attempted to command them in his favour.
So you might say in each of the Voodoo Lady's plans, LeChuck steals her thunder, their is chaos for a while, then Guybrush brings balance back to the Force... and we're back at square one.
Now that LeChuck is safely out of the picture, in the hands of an indomitable Voodoo Lady, this is an excellent lead for her to control the Caribbean.
I'm sensing a very calculating Palpatine-esque manipulator of fates if this is all true.
I think what Mermaid is trying to say though is that the voodoo lady isn't evil and doesn't want control over the Caribbean, just wants to keep things balanced. If she really wanted to conquer the Caribbean, she could've done it a long time ago. I think she believes that everyone is open to make their own decisions and so can only give people the info they want to know. I agree with this theory though that the voodoo lady simply wants everything to be balanced in the seas. Also, I think LeChuck did plan the pox because I once sent Jake an email in regards to this and he said that in his opinion, LeChuck intentionally became a human and started the pox to influence others to start on the path to La Esponje Grande. Then he would take it all as his own. The fact that he had a voodoo trust charm on him also hints he had all this planned out along with the fact he said he knew more about the cursed cutlass more than anybody else.
Meanwhile LeChuck out of the picture the Voodoo lady needed someone else to do her leg work... and recruits Guybrush in LeChucks place...
I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that she told LeChuck about Monkey Island though. I just think the voodoo lady tells people the info they want to know, even though she knows what will happen, because she knows it's not her place to tell someone what will happen to them to the extent that they know too much. She knew what would become of LeChuck, but he would always be out there in some shape or form killing people.
You sound as though you believe her to be benign. I disagree. I believe her to be not only controlling circumstances for her own benefit, but also quite deceptive about it.
...
Okay, everyone. Think about this... While playing Secret, when you talk to the Voodoo Lady she often would interrupt Guybrush before he spoke, and gave him the answer to a question he hadn't asked yet. I posit that perhaps one of the ways she controls the flow of information to the people she meets with is by controlling both the question asked and the answer given. By answering questions before they're asked, she's able to trick people into believing that the question she "sees" is the same as the one they were going to ask. In this way, she can control circumstances by giving people information that she makes them think they, themselves wanted.
Also, consider how LeChuck was jailed in a cell right next to the Voodoo Lady in ToMI Chapter 4, and then he was later able to not only trick the guard into setting him free (albeit that's not really hard) but he also knows exactly how to reverse the flow of voodoo from the sponge back into himself. What did the Voodoo Lady "let slip" to him when they were jailed together? I'm almost convinced that there was a conversation between the two of them in jail, where she was able to manipulate circumstances further to her benefit by playing to LeChuck's desires.
I like this idea.
Did he? I assume you're referring to Estevan's story of LeChuck and Elaine where she tells him "to drop dead". Estevan says "So he did!" but thinking about it I guess this was referring to his fatal journey to Monkey Island, which happened shortly after his meeting with Elaine.
But giving it a second thought..what IF Elaine told him to drop dead and he DID so that very moment - wouldn't that mean she's in possession of some mysterious power too that she's been hiding? Maybe some power that's in opposition to classic Voodoo? ("Your wife's ways are her own, Guybrush.")
Ha! I love that idea.
Exactly what I started to think after I finishing Tales, Irishmile. Especially after seeing LeChuck smacking her around basically the same way as he did to Guybrush. To have her out of his way while trying to kill Guybrush, he could as well have paralyzed her as he did with Winslow and the merpeople, yet he's just as cruel to her as to him. That doesn't really show that he cares for her as an adorer would. Maybe he needs her (secret powers) to lay that bloody siege to the very heart of voodoo itself. Maybe Elaine swallowed the secret of Monkey Island.
he might just be mad at being stabed by her XD
Aah, that would be SO obvious...too easy.
But, see, he COULD have her, even without that marriage that is. Why is that marriage so important to him??
That's never how I saw it. The guy in the scumm bar says something like "she told him to drop dead, so he did." I don't think that he means he dropped dead on purpose because she told him too... in fact, it's unlikely that the guy in the scumm bar would even know exactly what she said to him (so she might never have actually said "drop dead" exactly, just rejected him somehow. it's unlikely that anyone knew exactly what other people were saying in those days because the internet speeds were, like, hella slow). I always thought it just meant LeChuck died while he was trying to win over elaine.
Hey Estaban Fealiks thinks you are a liar.
maybe hes very religious he built his own church
Because Guybrush got it.
The way I see it, he's not obsessed by Elaine because he's in love with her, not anymore. At this point it's because he was rejected, than this kid wasn't, and to make this worse that kid sprayed him with root beer and so on. In MI2 he seemed more concerned with hurting GB than getting Elaine.
Maybe he's just figured that getting Elaine is the best way to hurt GB.
It only makes things worse that LeChuck can't be permanently eradicated (as far as we know.)
Actually thats not that very far fetched, if you have read On Stranger Tides pretty much similar thing happens as
I haven't, Jazzy, but it sounds like I should.
If this is true, this could also explain why he is also so hell bent on making her evil and corrupt. If he can gain control of Elaine and, by extension, the secret, he would want to make sure it is influenced by demonic power to insure it is used for his plans. The secret could be that Elaine is not real, just a personification of ultimate power in a female form. The metaphor being power is attractive, always difficult to obtain or understand, and almost always escapes your reach.
Um....no, actually I'm not.
That's an interesting point! What makes it a little unlikely to me is the fact that LeChuck has never talked about those (possible) plans. Why wouldn't he? I mean, he loves to reveal his evil plots like he did at the end of TOMI. He told Guybrush about the intentions he had with the Big Whoop carnival and the roller coaster of the death, the Ultimate Insult, La Esponja Grande. Why would he never have revealed plans he has with Elaine other than just making her as a beautiful woman his bride?
On the other hand, since MI 3 -5 were not made by Ron Gilbert, the storyline might have gotten off course. So you may be right: maybe those plans would have been revealed in the "other" MI3.
Very true, but LeChuck has known that Guybrush is also in love with her. After they got married, I think it would be in LeChuck's best interest not to tell either of them the power that sleeps in Elaine for fear that in might be used against him. Guybrush is married to her afterall, so if he knew about her power, he would most likley use it to stop LeChuck once and for all. Perhaps he has truly known the Secret of Monkey Island all along and just refuse to answer it or say he doesn't know to keep it safe.
this discussion reminds me of when i was playing SOMI for the first time when i was a little kid and the shopkeeper told guybrush that the swordmaster said he could jump in the lake or something like that.
i was trying for days/weeks to get guybrush into any body of water i could find on melee island and got myself quite frustrated.
taking the dialogue literally in this case was proven to be a mistake. i always suspected it was the same for lechuck dropping dead.
After I bought the treasure map, the game let me wander freely through the forest, and I found her house quite by accident. It's just as well, though. Wandering like that let me find the stump joke, which I thought was hilarious.