My apologies, I misread your post, it looked like you were saying you never played ANY adventure game from that period, save for King's Quest.
And I do see what you meant about GameTap, again, I misconstrued your tone.
Thank you for finally posting a more comprehensive reason why you dislike the games, in that light I can better see where your criticisms stem from. I still disagree, (even though I love puzzles too) but being a gamer who never really cared for the immensely popular Final Fantasy series, I know what it's like to try to explain why you don't like something to avid fans :P
I still think it's a little early to make this judgement, however from early reviews of Episode 3 I'm going to have to agree. The season certainly does not feel like a 15 hour game. Instead, it feels like a collection of 2 hour games.
Obviously the episodic content is the reason for this. I feel that the episodic content could be pulled off, but when playing episode 2 the technique didn't hit quite right. I guess I felt like there needed to be just a little more rumination on the transition from episode 1 to episode 2, and exposition on the overarching story.
I think the biggest problem is that Sam & Max are forced to be self contained, such that an individual who pays $8.50 for Episode 3 before ever playing any other part of the series will be able to understand the entire experience in that one self contained product. This forces a certain amount of redundancy, a certain amount of "self-containedness", that keeps the product from feeling like a continuation, or even a link, in a greater whole.
Now, I understand why the episodic approach is necessary, especially when working in conjunction with that big distribution site, but there is a certain amount of collaborative energy that is lost when creating 6 little self-contained products. If those products were 6 segments of one greater product, their effect would be multiplied. As it is, their effect is additive. *Wonders if that makes sense*
I'm certainly not unhappy with S&M. I enjoyed the first two episodes, and am looking forward to the third. I'm sure there will be some overarching storyline that will satisfactorily tie the entire whole together.
I just think that, as it stands, the amount of work the team is doing does not appear to be making a product that builds upon itself. One example is in the original game: Because the product is one coherent whole, the player can revisit any site previously visited. But, since each Season 1 episode is self-contained, there are sites that cannot be revisited in later episodes. An example is Brady Culture's theater after episode 1. While this seems frivolous, and I agree that it mostly is, "old school" gamers may find themselves feeling like the game is thus "smaller", and subjectively they may transfer that feeling to their enjoyment of the product.
That said, I still hope that an overarching story will pull the episodes together to feel more coherent. I think that, as Telltale continues to work on their production style, they will get better at it (:p). I am happy with what is being produced thus far, though I wish each episode were 30-60 minutes longer.
Just for the record, SiN Episodes collapsed on itself because they couldn't a) keep up with the rapid developments of the changing Source codebase (why they didn't just pick a codebase and stick with it I dunno) and b) financially sustain an entire team for a lengthy development cycle.
Think of how quickly Telltale would fall apart if they had to sustain longer development times with no money coming in the short term? Gametap would quickly lose interest (or not be interested at all) because it's the main draw for their network at the moment and the entire company would be running on life support. And then we wouldn't necessarily get a better (or even half-baked) product because it would be forced out of the door barely feature complete like so many PC games from recent years.
Episodic gaming is good in certain cases. Where the developer has the means to keep itself financially afloat (i.e. Valve) it's just a money-making pit of sloth, meaning they can overcharge for less content (Episode 1 was abysmally priced, unless you live in the UK and bought it from Steam for £12 - i.e. ME!).
And I think part of the anxiety is that we have to wait 30 days for each new episode. If we got the entire thing all at once I think the subjective satisfaction of the customer would overwhelm some of the smaller complaints about the product.
30 days is nothing though, as far as episodic games go. Especially when compared to Half-Life 2 episodes.... they could have made a full sequel during all the times they've pushed back Episode 2's release date...
(I get what your saying, but I had to take the opportunity to rant about Valve lol)
"Well, one thing I am seeing here is that most of the people complaining about difficulty and length are hardcore old school adventure gamers."
Yeah right. I never played most of the old sierra games(matter of fact I found king's quest remake 3 and 5 so bad that I stopped playing sierra games completely) and I have literally 20+ adventure games still sitting and waiting to be played as I get around to them. This includes moment of silence, gk2, 3, ankh, myst 4-5, al emmo, dark fall 2, obsidian, morpheus, still life, discworld noir, etc... Yet I am hardcore!? Yeah right!
Well here's the thing--if somebody owned 20+ fighting games, or 20+ sports games, or 20+ racing games, 20+ rpgs, 20+ FPS's, whatever--I would call them hardcore--who wouldn't?
Read the adventuregamers.com review of episode 3.. their sentiments are mine exactly.
If you're trying to prove that you're not a hardcore adventure gamer, it doesn't necessarily help your cause if, when thinking of reviews, your first inclination is to bring up a review from a site geared towards adventure gamers--like a fighting game fan pointing to a review from a fighting game site, etc.. (Yes, I know it's possible to find some other review--PC Gameworld perhaps--but first inclinations are first inclinations)
Oh god, what is it with the gametap rankings.. gametap is 99% OLD GAMES>.. to be in the top is nothing special whatsoever! I know you want to feel justified in your opinions..
Gametap rankings matter since Gametap provided the funding that literally guaranteed that the 6 episodes would be made with no financial risk to Telltale--basically, with Gametap funding, it was assured that Telltale would at least break even. Being popular on Gametap, along with the 15 day exclusivity, is the reward that Gametap gets for funding Telltale. If it turned out to not be popular on Gametap, then they would want to discontinue such an arrangement (now or in the future), and it's continued popularity on Gametap prevents that from happening, and it also would be leverage for Telltale to maybe ask for more money the next time around. Being popular on Gametap also lets Gametap knows what their gamers like, and what attracts them to Gametap--which leads to Gametap plastering Sam and Max ads on IGN, Mad Magazine, and even television commercials--you don't see them necessarily advertising their (new and exclusive) Mini-golf or soduku games.
And once again, have you seen the games that showed up on the Gametap rankings in the past months? Silent Hill 2, Deus Ex, Civilization 3, Toejam and Earl, Sonic the Hedgehog, etc. Please explain how these old games were able to get on there at all, when Gametap now already has a stable selection of new titles that could fill that up?
You missed my point totally. I did not give the gametap rankings as a cast-iron argument. Just as an indication that SOME PEOPLE DISAGREE (with some being a number larger than 1).
My point was that I saw your point, respect it, and ask you to respect mine (and the 1 or more people that agree with me). You seem to enjoy being sarcastic and stomping on my opinions as if I'm selling them as fact, which I didn't.
There's no point in continuing this conversation if that is the way you are going to react.
"Well here's the thing--if somebody owned 20+ fighting games, or 20+ sports games, or 20+ racing games, 20+ rpgs, 20+ FPS's, whatever--I would call them hardcore--who wouldn't?"
I guess I have a different definition of hardcore. I go in and out of phases of what kind of game I am into. It took me 7 years to finish Curse of Monkey Island. I got stuck once, stopped for 3 years, stuck again... stopped for 4 years and then beat it.
I started playing adventure games again after that about mid last year to try to get my wife into some computer gaming. Played 3 or so games... took a year off again. The reason I have all of these games stockpiled is because I just went on a buying spree on ebay and bought em for chump change-$7-15 each. It could take me years to beat them all at my rate.
Hardcore to me would mean that I play adventure games all the time, get all the new games, etc. That is not me. I have a ton of other hobbies including other genres of computer games that take me attention away for weeks, months, and sometimes, as my example above showed, years at a time. If you consider that hardcore...
"Well here's the thing--if somebody owned 20+ fighting games, or 20+ sports games, or 20+ racing games, 20+ rpgs, 20+ FPS's, whatever--I would call them hardcore--who wouldn't?"
They might matter to telltale, but it isn't an indication of what people like. Compared to older games, if people pay to subscribe to gametap to play older games, and a new one comes out that they get access to for free, they are very likely to jump on it just because it is a new game that is free with their subscription.
I don't even think I'll end up playing episode 3, which I get for free.
Compared to older games, if people pay to subscribe to gametap to play older games, and a new one comes out that they get access to for free, they are very likely to jump on it just because it is a new game that is free with their subscription.
Here's where the logic sort of fails--you argue that you don't even think you'll play other episodes because of such poor quality, even though you get it for "free," yet you later argue that many masses of people will play it just for the sake of playing it, despite the poor quality which you maintain.
If I subscribe to HBO, I won't go out of my way to watch whatever new 1-hour show they have since it's new if I believe it to be crap--I have better things to do with my time--the Sam and Max games require even more of a time commitment--either way, your logic dictates that Gametap users aren't as judgmental in the quality problems you see (you claim you might not play episode 3 because of the poor quality, while they still will.)
I introduced Sam & Max, episodes 1 & 2 to a person who has never before played any videogames whatsoever. At most, she has played about 10 hours of games total before in her life. She really liked the S&M games - granted, it was pretty slow learning into how to solve some of the puzzles ( for example
taking out the soda poppers
in episode one proved to be a bit too much to handle ).
However, once she was done with those, I asked her if she'd like to try out 'The Curse of Monkey Island'. She did, and got totally hooked. She really got engrossed in the story and wanted to figure out the next puzzle to see what happens next. This wasn't the case with Sam & Max, where she might not play at all for a few days, then come back to it.
Granted, there are many factors that give an advantage to CMI: better voice acting, really good 2D art and animation, excellent premise and so forth. But still, it begs to ask the question whether adventure games are better off as big epic quests rather than episodes. With big quests you can build a better introduction, hooking up the gamer early on and providing an enjoyable adventure you don't want to miss. This certainly might be possible to pull of with episodic gaming as well, but I have not seen it done yet with the Telltale adventure games. The Bone games was a bit better than Sam & Max, as Bone has the story about the dragon and the evil monsters lurking around every now and then. Sam & Max doesn't really have that kind of a hook - the hypnotism storyline doesn't really work, at least for me.
The Sam & Max episodes are ok adventure games, but IGN speaks the truth this time - they're not awesomely good, expecially for non-fans. I truly do want for Telltale to make a second season of S&M (since an old-fashioned adventure game probably isn't going to happen), but being honest, I have to say that I'm going to hold out ordering it until the first episode appears and I can read some comments and reviews about it.
It's not about the memories of old adventure games being rosy. They were actually better than what's coming out nowdays. Even for non-gamers, even with the inferior graphics. Well, at least for one "test subject".
"It's not about the memories of old adventure games being rosy. They were actually better than what's coming out nowdays. Even for non-gamers, even with the inferior graphics. Well, at least for one "test subject"."
I definitely agree that the old adventure games are much better than most games in ANY genre these days. While we still get a few gems, most games now are either:
Sequels nobody wanted, sequels everybody wanted but turned out to be rushjobs, remakes nobody wanted, licensed games that play exactly like the 500,000 before them, the same game repackaged with updated stats and useless features *cough Madden cough*, WW2 games, sequels to WW2 games, spinoffs of WW2 games, ports of WW2 games, expansion packs of WW2 games, card battle games, DDR clones, or (Popular Game Series) Vs. (Popular Capcom Characters) fighting games. And more WW2 games.
She's currently in part IV. I'm very, very surprised at how good she's become. There are some cases where she has had to rely on the Universal Hint System or me, but mostly it's been her own doing. Rottingham's Swordfight has been one of the biggest obstacles so far.
Next up is Grim Fandango and perhaps eventually the original Sam & Max: Hit the Road. At that point I can make the ultimate comparison with old/new. But that's ways away, I think a break is in order after CMI is done.
ShaggE:
Ah, one more who agrees me with that there are a couple of thousand too many WW2 titles out there. Wargames in general are coming out of my ears - I have totally lost all interest in them, even if they are good. I used to love Battlefield 1942 and the sorts, but now it's just too much.
Amen to that. I still enjoy playing a good one every now and then, and I loves me some Wolfenstein,(the Wolfenstein franchise doesn't count toward the plague of WW2 games in my opinion, since it has sci-fi elements) but if I see another Medal of Honor or Brothers in Arms preview on X-Play or in EGM, I shalt pinch a scalpel betwixt my pointer finger and thumb, and partake in poking every offending game developer in the eye. I will then wipe off the blade, and do the same to every game developer who has put jumping puzzles or sewer levels in a FPS while I'm at it. :P
Here's where the logic sort of fails--you argue that you don't even think you'll play other episodes because of such poor quality, even though you get it for "free," yet you later argue that many masses of people will play it just for the sake of playing it, despite the poor quality which you maintain.
If I subscribe to HBO, I won't go out of my way to watch whatever new 1-hour show they have since it's new if I believe it to be crap--I have better things to do with my time--the Sam and Max games require even more of a time commitment--either way, your logic dictates that Gametap users aren't as judgmental in the quality problems you see (you claim you might not play episode 3 because of the poor quality, while they still will.)
You assume too much. The flaw in your logic is simple. I am rather extreme in deciding not to play another episode when it is free. Most people are not so. As long as they were mildly entertained, they are likely to play since it costs no extra and there are no other new games on gametap.
"either way, your logic dictates that Gametap users aren't as judgmental in the quality problems you see"
Exactly. People aren't judgmental when it comes to something free. And gametap gives access to all games, including sam and max... so since they pay no extra, they might as well. Sales are much much more indicative. Do you think many people are going to pay $8(or even $5) for 1.5 hours of a sam and max episode with no challenge and few puzzles? Do you think after 3.5/5 star reviews and 90% of reviews pointing to a decline in game length and puzzles and locations that people who were disappointed in the first or second will go to the third?
Let's say there are 100 potential customers that all buy the first game.. 90 of them give the second game the benefit of the doubt but they notice that the trends are continuing and there are less puzzles, locations, challenge, length. Then 65 buy the third and so on... that is indicative. Plus, some people(who are foolish imo) paid for the whole season upfront giving telltale the benefit of the doubt. If they end up being unhappy by the 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't bode well for their future purchases with the company, even if the 2nd season improves. Most people don't like feeling ripped off.
They should succeed financially because the full amount(if you buy) goes to them if you download. No middle man. If they find people keep buying their games at a shorter length at 5-8 bucks a piece it actually encourages them to keep the games short. Maximum profit.
Sales are much much more indicative. Do you think many people are going to pay $8(or even $5) for 1.5 hours of a sam and max episode with no challenge and few puzzles? Do you think after 3.5/5 star reviews and 90% of reviews pointing to a decline in game length and puzzles and locations that people who were disappointed in the first or second will go to the third?
Let's say there are 100 potential customers that all buy the first game.. 90 of them give the second game the benefit of the doubt but they notice that the trends are continuing and there are less puzzles, locations, challenge, length. Then 65 buy the third and so on... that is indicative.
Honestly, where is your "indicative" evidence at all? Theoretical hashings based on what you personally feel of the games, (when you already admitted that what you feel is different from "most people") is not any indicative evidence at all. I see 3.5/5 as pretty good for a $6 game, Many people see a 6.7/10 as really good for $60 console games.
Plus, some people(who are foolish imo) paid for the whole season upfront giving telltale the benefit of the doubt. If they end up being unhappy by the 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't bode well for their future purchases with the company, even if the 2nd season improves. Most people don't like feeling ripped off.
People are foolish for saving $18.75 on the season pre-order ($53.70 if you buy each individually, versus $34.95)?
Just like you keep talking on and on about Gametap's 99 cents deal (you've talked about it on more than one site) most people like a deal and most people have talked about what a deal it is to get Sam and Max for as cheap as they are--there are more people talking about what a deal it is to play Sam and Max (even some people offering to pay 25%-50% more) than there are talking about how they are getting ripped off, and in my opinion, in lieu of sales figures, that is pretty indicative about what people are feeling about whether they feel they are being ripped off with the series so far.
All I can add to this discussion (argument) is that it was short. One hour, thirty minutes, listening to most of the dialogue options and playing Whack-da-Rat twice (high score 21). If I listened to every dialogue option I probably could have spent 2 hours, total.
I think the puzzles could be ramped up in difficulty a little bit, at this point. They're still pretty simple. I hope the second half of the season is a little more thought provoking.
How about some box stacking puzzles? *Laughs* That's always a good cop out puzzle =p
Oh yeah, and I thought the mini-game was very well done. The controls were quick and responsive, and the game itself had good art, good timing, and good sound. Some kind of high score meter might have been nice (didn't notice one).
Hrm. That doesn't sound right. What I mean is that after beating the mini-game, a high score mode would have been nice
Honestly, where is your "indicative" evidence at all? Theoretical hashings based on what you personally feel of the games, (when you already admitted that what you feel is different from "most people") is not any indicative evidence at all.
People are foolish for saving $18.75 on the season pre-order ($53.70 if you buy each individually, versus $34.95)?
Just like you keep talking on and on about Gametap's 99 cents deal (you've talked about it on more than one site) most people like a deal and most people have talked about what a deal it is to get Sam and Max for as cheap as they are--there are more people talking about what a deal it is to play Sam and Max (even some people offering to pay 25%-50% more) than there are talking about how they are getting ripped off, and in my opinion, in lieu of sales figures, that is pretty indicative about what people are feeling about whether they feel they are being ripped off with the series so far.
I don't mean to be rude here, but I have a feeling that either english is not your native language or you are rushing through what you are reading.
In my sales example, declining numbers vs steady numbers would be indicative. This is why I am saying that sales matter much more than gametap rankings.
The second part of your response also shows a lack of understanding. I am saying that they would be foolish to pay for something upfront without knowing what the end quality will end up being. You could pay for a full season after the fact too I believe. Unless you have an extensive history loving a company and all its work, it is foolish to pay for something before you have a chance to sample a majority of the product. In my opinion.
And you think people "talking" about how they feel here are indicative of how things are. Sadly, people that post in forums are a super small vocal minority. If you think they represent the majority, you are quite wrong. There is a small vocal base for even the worst of games. Sales define success for a company. Not people on a forum. Sorry to say, but I don't understand how you think that the vocal minority means more than how sales figures would indicate people think.
And I added in, that if people paid upfront and don't like the quality they are getting, they cannot do anything about it until after the season. Which is why I said that if people end up feeling ripped off by not getting what they thought they were going to get, they are likely never to buy from them again.
I didn't feel the urge to play it more than twice too, until Brendan (one of the game designers) mentioned that it gets harder as you play more. I agree some elements could be added to make people want to play it more.
I didn't feel the urge to play it more than twice too, until Brendan (one of the game designers) mentioned that it gets harder as you play more. I agree some elements could be added to make people want to play it more.
Yeah?
I'll go back and play it some more, then. Thanks for the heads up
Let's say there are 100 potential customers that all buy the first game.. 90 of them give the second game the benefit of the doubt but they notice that the trends are continuing and there are less puzzles, locations, challenge, length. Then 65 buy the third and so on... that is indicative. Plus, some people(who are foolish imo) paid for the whole season upfront giving telltale the benefit of the doubt. If they end up being unhappy by the 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't bode well for their future purchases with the company, even if the 2nd season improves. Most people don't like feeling ripped off.
The problem with these numbers is that they were pulled out of your ass, and aren't based on anything other than your apparent belief that 10%-25% of the people who bought an episode were not only unhappy with it, but aren't going to buy the subsequent episode. For one thing I don't think any of us know enough to start assigning percentage values to the number of people who liked/disliked the game. (Weren't you the one who said that forumites represent a very small minority of the consumer base and therefore no conclusion about general happiness/contempt for the product can be drawn?) Not to mention that not everyone who disliked episode 1 (or at least had issues with it) stopped buying later episodes. If that were true people wouldn't be complaining about the length/difficulty mid-season; they'd have simply disappeared.
You call the people who pre-ordered the season foolish, but you assume that everyone who did so shares your opinion and will be unhappy with the second half of the season. Let's, just for the sake of argument say that some of those full season buyers in fact liked the games (I know, it's an insane notion, but humor me). By purchasing the season upfront rather than buying all the games separately, they saved close to twenty dollars.
I find it hard to believe that many people will feel ripped off by these games considering the pricing structure. $9 for one episode? $35 for all six? Someone who shoveled out the dough for these games thinking they were going to be vastly different from what they turned out to be were simply not paying attention, didn't do their research, and are my idea of foolish. People who paid for the whole season knew it was something of a gamble, but those people were also probably Sam & Max fans and read enough to have an idea of what to expect about difficulty and length, and anyone who falls under that category is unlikely to be disappointed.
Although it is a tad presumptuous I suppose, Agon(which I have not played yet but I just bought on ebay for 14 bucks) seems to do episodic right. 4-7 hours an episode seems about right. However, they are certainly not rushing the episodic content(1 game per month now they say for sam and max). It smacks of rush job/cashing in to me with the fact that they keep getting shorter coincidentally right as their schedule has moved up to 1 month per episode.
I do think the 1 month per episode schedule is a cause of the short content. You just can't do enough in a month, including testing. Even 1 month 2 weeks would be a vast improvement.
Also, I wonder how much storyboarding Telltale is doing? Storyboarding is an effective design and planning tool.
The problem with these numbers is that they were pulled out of your ass, and aren't based on anything other than your apparent belief that 10%-25% of the people who bought an episode were not only unhappy with it, but aren't going to buy the subsequent episode. For one thing I don't think any of us know enough to start assigning percentage values to the number of people who liked/disliked the game. Not to mention that not everyone who disliked episode 1 (or at least had issues with it) stopped buying later episodes. If that were true people wouldn't be complaining about the length/difficulty mid-season; they'd have simply disappeared.
You call the people who pre-ordered the season foolish, but you assume that everyone who did so shares your opinion and will be unhappy with the second half of the season. Let's, just for the sake of argument say that some of those full season buyers in fact liked the games (I know, it's an insane notion, but humor me). By purchasing the season upfront rather than buying all the games separately, they saved close to twenty dollars.
I find it hard to believe that many people will feel ripped off by these games considering the pricing structure. $9 for one episode? $35 for all six? Someone who shoveled out the dough for these games thinking they were going to be vastly different from what they turned out to be were simply not paying attention, didn't do their research, and are my idea of foolish. People who paid for the whole season knew it was something of a gamble, but those people were also probably Sam & Max fans and read enough to have an idea of what to expect about difficulty and length, and anyone who falls under that category is unlikely to be disappointed.
"For one thing I don't think any of us know enough to start assigning percentage values to the number of people who liked/disliked the game."
Umm, why are people having comprehension problems. I was showing HOW sales would be very indicative. If they either went down or stayed flat. The point being that sales are MUCH more indicative of popularity than gametap ratings.. This is not complicated people. I even step by step showed you WHY sales would be more important.. and instead of getting that, you get mad at a example I give and assume it is fact? Huh!?
People need to understand that an example is not reality. Example is to show a point, which went right over the rabid fans' heads. It is NOT a prediction. It shows how trends would show significance way more than gametap. Get it?
If each episode continues to be 1.5 hours and they paid upfront, I sure as hell would feel ripped. Again, I gave an EXAMPLE of what COULD happen if things keep going in the current trend.
Quit the rabid fan syndrome and try to understand what I posted before responding in haste.
I don't mean to be rude here, but I have a feeling that either english is not your native language or you are rushing through what you are reading.
In my sales example, declining numbers vs steady numbers would be indicative. This is why I am saying that sales matter much more than gametap rankings.
The second part of your response also shows a lack of understanding. I am saying that they would be foolish to pay for something upfront without knowing what the end quality will end up being. You could pay for a full season after the fact too I believe. Unless you have an extensive history loving a company and all its work, it is foolish to pay for something before you have a chance to sample a majority of the product. In my opinion.
And you think people "talking" about how they feel here are indicative of how things are. Sadly, people that post in forums are a super small vocal minority. If you think they represent the majority, you are quite wrong. There is a small vocal base for even the worst of games. Sales define success for a company. Not people on a forum. Sorry to say, but I don't understand how you think that the vocal minority means more than how sales figures would indicate people think.
And I added in, that if people paid upfront and don't like the quality they are getting, they cannot do anything about it until after the season. Which is why I said that if people end up feeling ripped off by not getting what they thought they were going to get, they are likely never to buy from them again.
Please stop resorting to the argument that people don't understand what you're saying or speak English--it really is getting old.
I don't have to explain again why the success on Gametap does matter, and why it translates to a financial boon to Telltale. Dan Connors even mentions in a recent interview how much Gametap has done to make their company a success.
There are indications that the pre-order deal will not last for long--(I can dig out the URLs if you want) and why would it? Why would you charge people willing to pre-order the same price for people who are waiting until the end?
I'm fully aware that people on forums are a super-small minority, but I base what people say about price not on this forum but on a lot of mainstream places like 1up, Kotaku, and Joystiq. Not to mention things gleaned from interviews and posts from people like Dan Connors, Dave Grossman and other Telltale people that indicate that many of the things people say on the forums are less indicative of the general public, especially in regards to the difficulty debate.
shadow9d9, who is this nonexistent person who said that Gametap rankings were more important than sales? Everyone here knows that sales are what matters to the company. I was saying that I don't think your example makes sense, but besides that it's unnecessary because it's arguing against a claim that was never made.
The reason Gametap rankings were brought up in the first place is that Gametap is the company that funded these games, ergo if Gametap is happy with how the games are performing on their end, it makes the possibility of a second season more likely. Of course, the fact that a Sam & Max game often appears on that list doesn't necessarily mean much, but Gametap is significant because they're very much part of the reason the Sam & Max episodes got made in the first place.
If each episode continues to be 1.5 hours and they paid upfront, I sure as hell would feel ripped.
But you didn't pay upfront. The majority of people who would blind buy a game for 35 bucks are the kind of people who are diehard Sam & Max fans and who read up enough to know what they were buying. (Fun fact: Dan Connors said that each episode would be ~1.5-2 hours in length before the first episode was released.) In the case of most people I would say that if you feel ripped in pre-ordering the whole dang season you have yourself to blame.
Again, I gave an EXAMPLE of what COULD happen if things keep going in the current trend.
What COULD happen? In other words, your example's worthless.
shadow9d9, who is this nonexistent person who said that Gametap rankings were more important than sales? Everyone here knows that sales are what matters to the company. I was saying that I don't think your example makes sense, but besides that it's unnecessary because it's arguing against a claim that was never made.
The reason Gametap rankings were brought up in the first place is that Gametap is the company that funded these games, ergo if Gametap is happy with how the games are performing on their end, it makes the possibility of a second season more likely. Of course, the fact that a Sam & Max game often appears on that list doesn't necessarily mean much, but Gametap is significant because they're very much part of the reason the Sam & Max episodes got made in the first place.
But you didn't pay upfront. The majority of people who would blind buy a game for 35 bucks are the kind of people who are diehard Sam & Max fans and who read up enough to know what they were buying. (Fun fact: Dan Connors said that each episode would be ~1.5-2 hours in length before the first episode was released.) In the case of most people I would say that if you feel ripped in pre-ordering the whole dang season you have yourself to blame.
What COULD happen? In other words, your example's worthless.
No, the example gives all possibilities. Either the sales have slumped or the sales have stayed the same or somewhere in between. Say it with me: the example is used to show why sales would be more indicative than gametap.
"shadow9d9, who is this nonexistent person who said that Gametap rankings were more important than sales? "
Someone said gametap was important as an indication. I responded saying that sales would be more indicative and explained how. Say it with me: Point was that sales would be more indicative. Refer to the example for HOW.
Please stop resorting to the argument that people don't understand what you're saying or speak English--it really is getting old.
I don't have to explain again why the success on Gametap does matter, and why it translates to a financial boon to Telltale. Dan Connors even mentions in a recent interview how much Gametap has done to make their company a success.
There are indications that the pre-order deal will not last for long--(I can dig out the URLs if you want) and why would it? Why would you charge people willing to pre-order the same price for people who are waiting until the end?
I'm fully aware that people on forums are a super-small minority, but I base what people say about price not on this forum but on a lot of mainstream places like 1up, Kotaku, and Joystiq. Not to mention things gleaned from interviews and posts from people like Dan Connors, Dave Grossman and other Telltale people that indicate that many of the things people say on the forums are less indicative of the general public, especially in regards to the difficulty debate.
As I said, gametap is a financial success. However, it does little to gauge consumer content compared to sales, which was the point trying to be made.
It may be a pre-order deal, but it very well could be a package deal too. For example, Agon is $10 per episode but 3rd one free with "subscription" of first 2. Keeping a package deal would be logical, even if the deal is not as good as the pre-order deal.
The season certainly does not feel like a 15 hour game. Instead, it feels like a collection of 2 hour games.
I never got the impression Season 1 was meant to be a 15 hour (or however many hours you want to use) game. It was meant to be standalone episodes that had a common theme and an overall plot. They are standalone games. Much of the disappointment comes from the expectations that the players bring into it and when those aren't met, it becomes the game's fault which seems unfair to me.
Everyone comes to the table with different gaming needs and if your (I'm speaking to no one specifically) particular needs aren't being met, find the game that will meet them and stop pissing all over the games that don't do it. It just gets tiresome to hear the bitching and moaning that goes on when expectations aren't met (especially when you've only spent $0.99 to play the games. If you had dropped $30-$40, I might have more sympathy).
I never got the impression Season 1 was meant to be a 15 hour (or however many hours you want to use) game. It was meant to be standalone episodes that had a common theme and an overall plot. They are standalone games. Much of the disappointment comes from the expectations that the players bring into it and when those aren't met, it becomes the game's fault which seems unfair to me.
Everyone comes to the table with different gaming needs and if your (I'm speaking to no one specifically) particular needs aren't being met, find the game that will meet them and stop pissing all over the games that don't do it. It just gets tiresome to hear the bitching and moaning that goes on when expectations aren't met (especially when you've only spent $0.99 to play the games. If you had dropped $30-$40, I might have more sympathy).
You need to spend money in order to give criticisms in hope of better future games? They have it for 99 cents, should I pay more just to have my opinion heard? And at least 5 people out of the ten who hav responded here actually agree with me.. imagine that!
And you think people "talking" about how they feel here are indicative of how things are. Sadly, people that post in forums are a super small vocal minority. If you think they represent the majority, you are quite wrong.
Before you played the game(s) you had preconceived ideas of how it wouldn't live up to your expectations. And lo and behold...
Keeping low expectations leads to being able to be pleasantly surprised. And if I were the only one to think that way, I'd call it as you do. But I don't.
Plus the fact that the original Sam and Max was amazing.. I hoped for the best and that maybe the reviews would be wrong...
Someone said gametap was important as an indication. I responded saying that sales would be more indicative and explained how. Say it with me: Point was that sales would be more indicative. Refer to the example for HOW.
As has been pointed out many other times, nobody ever questioned that sales was not more indicative or more important--the problem with looking at sales figures is that only Telltale is privy to that information, so the layman must use other factors (Gametap rankings, comments on mainstream websites, comments by Telltale employees that reveal the general level of feedback they're receiving) if they want to gauge general satisfaction.
This was the point I was trying to make, but I'll concede that maybe the point didn't come across in my writing--in effect, my bad, not yours--I'll assume you read my posts multiple times and that you are a native speaker of English.
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Originally Posted by shadow9d9 View Post
And at least 5 people out of the ten who hav responded here actually agree with me.. imagine that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow9d9 View Post
And you think people "talking" about how they feel here are indicative of how things are. Sadly, people that post in forums are a super small vocal minority. If you think they represent the majority, you are quite wrong.
It is easy to quote out of context.
The first quote was to show that I am not the ONLY one with my feelings, which could lead to the conclusion that I am a lone skeptic.
The second is referring to the sales/success of a game as a whole.
Again, you fail at comprehension, which requires context.
Comments
And I do see what you meant about GameTap, again, I misconstrued your tone.
Thank you for finally posting a more comprehensive reason why you dislike the games, in that light I can better see where your criticisms stem from. I still disagree, (even though I love puzzles too) but being a gamer who never really cared for the immensely popular Final Fantasy series, I know what it's like to try to explain why you don't like something to avid fans :P
I still think it's a little early to make this judgement, however from early reviews of Episode 3 I'm going to have to agree. The season certainly does not feel like a 15 hour game. Instead, it feels like a collection of 2 hour games.
Obviously the episodic content is the reason for this. I feel that the episodic content could be pulled off, but when playing episode 2 the technique didn't hit quite right. I guess I felt like there needed to be just a little more rumination on the transition from episode 1 to episode 2, and exposition on the overarching story.
I think the biggest problem is that Sam & Max are forced to be self contained, such that an individual who pays $8.50 for Episode 3 before ever playing any other part of the series will be able to understand the entire experience in that one self contained product. This forces a certain amount of redundancy, a certain amount of "self-containedness", that keeps the product from feeling like a continuation, or even a link, in a greater whole.
Now, I understand why the episodic approach is necessary, especially when working in conjunction with that big distribution site, but there is a certain amount of collaborative energy that is lost when creating 6 little self-contained products. If those products were 6 segments of one greater product, their effect would be multiplied. As it is, their effect is additive. *Wonders if that makes sense*
I'm certainly not unhappy with S&M. I enjoyed the first two episodes, and am looking forward to the third. I'm sure there will be some overarching storyline that will satisfactorily tie the entire whole together.
I just think that, as it stands, the amount of work the team is doing does not appear to be making a product that builds upon itself. One example is in the original game: Because the product is one coherent whole, the player can revisit any site previously visited. But, since each Season 1 episode is self-contained, there are sites that cannot be revisited in later episodes. An example is Brady Culture's theater after episode 1. While this seems frivolous, and I agree that it mostly is, "old school" gamers may find themselves feeling like the game is thus "smaller", and subjectively they may transfer that feeling to their enjoyment of the product.
That said, I still hope that an overarching story will pull the episodes together to feel more coherent. I think that, as Telltale continues to work on their production style, they will get better at it (:p). I am happy with what is being produced thus far, though I wish each episode were 30-60 minutes longer.
Think of how quickly Telltale would fall apart if they had to sustain longer development times with no money coming in the short term? Gametap would quickly lose interest (or not be interested at all) because it's the main draw for their network at the moment and the entire company would be running on life support. And then we wouldn't necessarily get a better (or even half-baked) product because it would be forced out of the door barely feature complete like so many PC games from recent years.
Episodic gaming is good in certain cases. Where the developer has the means to keep itself financially afloat (i.e. Valve) it's just a money-making pit of sloth, meaning they can overcharge for less content (Episode 1 was abysmally priced, unless you live in the UK and bought it from Steam for £12 - i.e. ME!).
And I think part of the anxiety is that we have to wait 30 days for each new episode. If we got the entire thing all at once I think the subjective satisfaction of the customer would overwhelm some of the smaller complaints about the product.
(I get what your saying, but I had to take the opportunity to rant about Valve lol)
Well here's the thing--if somebody owned 20+ fighting games, or 20+ sports games, or 20+ racing games, 20+ rpgs, 20+ FPS's, whatever--I would call them hardcore--who wouldn't?
If you're trying to prove that you're not a hardcore adventure gamer, it doesn't necessarily help your cause if, when thinking of reviews, your first inclination is to bring up a review from a site geared towards adventure gamers--like a fighting game fan pointing to a review from a fighting game site, etc.. (Yes, I know it's possible to find some other review--PC Gameworld perhaps--but first inclinations are first inclinations)
Gametap rankings matter since Gametap provided the funding that literally guaranteed that the 6 episodes would be made with no financial risk to Telltale--basically, with Gametap funding, it was assured that Telltale would at least break even. Being popular on Gametap, along with the 15 day exclusivity, is the reward that Gametap gets for funding Telltale. If it turned out to not be popular on Gametap, then they would want to discontinue such an arrangement (now or in the future), and it's continued popularity on Gametap prevents that from happening, and it also would be leverage for Telltale to maybe ask for more money the next time around. Being popular on Gametap also lets Gametap knows what their gamers like, and what attracts them to Gametap--which leads to Gametap plastering Sam and Max ads on IGN, Mad Magazine, and even television commercials--you don't see them necessarily advertising their (new and exclusive) Mini-golf or soduku games.
And once again, have you seen the games that showed up on the Gametap rankings in the past months? Silent Hill 2, Deus Ex, Civilization 3, Toejam and Earl, Sonic the Hedgehog, etc. Please explain how these old games were able to get on there at all, when Gametap now already has a stable selection of new titles that could fill that up?
You missed my point totally. I did not give the gametap rankings as a cast-iron argument. Just as an indication that SOME PEOPLE DISAGREE (with some being a number larger than 1).
My point was that I saw your point, respect it, and ask you to respect mine (and the 1 or more people that agree with me). You seem to enjoy being sarcastic and stomping on my opinions as if I'm selling them as fact, which I didn't.
There's no point in continuing this conversation if that is the way you are going to react.
they make some interesting points about the puzzles and difficulty
it got a 6.6, episode 1 got an 8.7, episode 2 a 7.8
I guess I have a different definition of hardcore. I go in and out of phases of what kind of game I am into. It took me 7 years to finish Curse of Monkey Island. I got stuck once, stopped for 3 years, stuck again... stopped for 4 years and then beat it.
I started playing adventure games again after that about mid last year to try to get my wife into some computer gaming. Played 3 or so games... took a year off again. The reason I have all of these games stockpiled is because I just went on a buying spree on ebay and bought em for chump change-$7-15 each. It could take me years to beat them all at my rate.
Hardcore to me would mean that I play adventure games all the time, get all the new games, etc. That is not me. I have a ton of other hobbies including other genres of computer games that take me attention away for weeks, months, and sometimes, as my example above showed, years at a time. If you consider that hardcore...
They might matter to telltale, but it isn't an indication of what people like. Compared to older games, if people pay to subscribe to gametap to play older games, and a new one comes out that they get access to for free, they are very likely to jump on it just because it is a new game that is free with their subscription.
Here's where the logic sort of fails--you argue that you don't even think you'll play other episodes because of such poor quality, even though you get it for "free," yet you later argue that many masses of people will play it just for the sake of playing it, despite the poor quality which you maintain.
If I subscribe to HBO, I won't go out of my way to watch whatever new 1-hour show they have since it's new if I believe it to be crap--I have better things to do with my time--the Sam and Max games require even more of a time commitment--either way, your logic dictates that Gametap users aren't as judgmental in the quality problems you see (you claim you might not play episode 3 because of the poor quality, while they still will.)
However, once she was done with those, I asked her if she'd like to try out 'The Curse of Monkey Island'. She did, and got totally hooked. She really got engrossed in the story and wanted to figure out the next puzzle to see what happens next. This wasn't the case with Sam & Max, where she might not play at all for a few days, then come back to it.
Granted, there are many factors that give an advantage to CMI: better voice acting, really good 2D art and animation, excellent premise and so forth. But still, it begs to ask the question whether adventure games are better off as big epic quests rather than episodes. With big quests you can build a better introduction, hooking up the gamer early on and providing an enjoyable adventure you don't want to miss. This certainly might be possible to pull of with episodic gaming as well, but I have not seen it done yet with the Telltale adventure games. The Bone games was a bit better than Sam & Max, as Bone has the story about the dragon and the evil monsters lurking around every now and then. Sam & Max doesn't really have that kind of a hook - the hypnotism storyline doesn't really work, at least for me.
The Sam & Max episodes are ok adventure games, but IGN speaks the truth this time - they're not awesomely good, expecially for non-fans. I truly do want for Telltale to make a second season of S&M (since an old-fashioned adventure game probably isn't going to happen), but being honest, I have to say that I'm going to hold out ordering it until the first episode appears and I can read some comments and reviews about it.
It's not about the memories of old adventure games being rosy. They were actually better than what's coming out nowdays. Even for non-gamers, even with the inferior graphics. Well, at least for one "test subject".
I definitely agree that the old adventure games are much better than most games in ANY genre these days. While we still get a few gems, most games now are either:
Sequels nobody wanted, sequels everybody wanted but turned out to be rushjobs, remakes nobody wanted, licensed games that play exactly like the 500,000 before them, the same game repackaged with updated stats and useless features *cough Madden cough*, WW2 games, sequels to WW2 games, spinoffs of WW2 games, ports of WW2 games, expansion packs of WW2 games, card battle games, DDR clones, or (Popular Game Series) Vs. (Popular Capcom Characters) fighting games. And more WW2 games.
I think I covered the vast majority there :P
(Also, many many more WW2 games)
She's currently in part IV. I'm very, very surprised at how good she's become. There are some cases where she has had to rely on the Universal Hint System or me, but mostly it's been her own doing. Rottingham's Swordfight has been one of the biggest obstacles so far.
Next up is Grim Fandango and perhaps eventually the original Sam & Max: Hit the Road. At that point I can make the ultimate comparison with old/new. But that's ways away, I think a break is in order after CMI is done.
ShaggE:
Ah, one more who agrees me with that there are a couple of thousand too many WW2 titles out there. Wargames in general are coming out of my ears - I have totally lost all interest in them, even if they are good. I used to love Battlefield 1942 and the sorts, but now it's just too much.
You assume too much. The flaw in your logic is simple. I am rather extreme in deciding not to play another episode when it is free. Most people are not so. As long as they were mildly entertained, they are likely to play since it costs no extra and there are no other new games on gametap.
"either way, your logic dictates that Gametap users aren't as judgmental in the quality problems you see"
Exactly. People aren't judgmental when it comes to something free. And gametap gives access to all games, including sam and max... so since they pay no extra, they might as well. Sales are much much more indicative. Do you think many people are going to pay $8(or even $5) for 1.5 hours of a sam and max episode with no challenge and few puzzles? Do you think after 3.5/5 star reviews and 90% of reviews pointing to a decline in game length and puzzles and locations that people who were disappointed in the first or second will go to the third?
Let's say there are 100 potential customers that all buy the first game.. 90 of them give the second game the benefit of the doubt but they notice that the trends are continuing and there are less puzzles, locations, challenge, length. Then 65 buy the third and so on... that is indicative. Plus, some people(who are foolish imo) paid for the whole season upfront giving telltale the benefit of the doubt. If they end up being unhappy by the 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't bode well for their future purchases with the company, even if the 2nd season improves. Most people don't like feeling ripped off.
They should succeed financially because the full amount(if you buy) goes to them if you download. No middle man. If they find people keep buying their games at a shorter length at 5-8 bucks a piece it actually encourages them to keep the games short. Maximum profit.
Honestly, where is your "indicative" evidence at all? Theoretical hashings based on what you personally feel of the games, (when you already admitted that what you feel is different from "most people") is not any indicative evidence at all. I see 3.5/5 as pretty good for a $6 game, Many people see a 6.7/10 as really good for $60 console games.
People are foolish for saving $18.75 on the season pre-order ($53.70 if you buy each individually, versus $34.95)?
Just like you keep talking on and on about Gametap's 99 cents deal (you've talked about it on more than one site) most people like a deal and most people have talked about what a deal it is to get Sam and Max for as cheap as they are--there are more people talking about what a deal it is to play Sam and Max (even some people offering to pay 25%-50% more) than there are talking about how they are getting ripped off, and in my opinion, in lieu of sales figures, that is pretty indicative about what people are feeling about whether they feel they are being ripped off with the series so far.
All I can add to this discussion (argument) is that it was short. One hour, thirty minutes, listening to most of the dialogue options and playing Whack-da-Rat twice (high score 21). If I listened to every dialogue option I probably could have spent 2 hours, total.
I think the puzzles could be ramped up in difficulty a little bit, at this point. They're still pretty simple. I hope the second half of the season is a little more thought provoking.
How about some box stacking puzzles? *Laughs* That's always a good cop out puzzle =p
Hrm. That doesn't sound right. What I mean is that after beating the mini-game, a high score mode would have been nice
I don't mean to be rude here, but I have a feeling that either english is not your native language or you are rushing through what you are reading.
In my sales example, declining numbers vs steady numbers would be indicative. This is why I am saying that sales matter much more than gametap rankings.
The second part of your response also shows a lack of understanding. I am saying that they would be foolish to pay for something upfront without knowing what the end quality will end up being. You could pay for a full season after the fact too I believe. Unless you have an extensive history loving a company and all its work, it is foolish to pay for something before you have a chance to sample a majority of the product. In my opinion.
And you think people "talking" about how they feel here are indicative of how things are. Sadly, people that post in forums are a super small vocal minority. If you think they represent the majority, you are quite wrong. There is a small vocal base for even the worst of games. Sales define success for a company. Not people on a forum. Sorry to say, but I don't understand how you think that the vocal minority means more than how sales figures would indicate people think.
And I added in, that if people paid upfront and don't like the quality they are getting, they cannot do anything about it until after the season. Which is why I said that if people end up feeling ripped off by not getting what they thought they were going to get, they are likely never to buy from them again.
I didn't feel the urge to play it more than twice too, until Brendan (one of the game designers) mentioned that it gets harder as you play more. I agree some elements could be added to make people want to play it more.
Yeah?
I'll go back and play it some more, then. Thanks for the heads up
The problem with these numbers is that they were pulled out of your ass, and aren't based on anything other than your apparent belief that 10%-25% of the people who bought an episode were not only unhappy with it, but aren't going to buy the subsequent episode. For one thing I don't think any of us know enough to start assigning percentage values to the number of people who liked/disliked the game. (Weren't you the one who said that forumites represent a very small minority of the consumer base and therefore no conclusion about general happiness/contempt for the product can be drawn?) Not to mention that not everyone who disliked episode 1 (or at least had issues with it) stopped buying later episodes. If that were true people wouldn't be complaining about the length/difficulty mid-season; they'd have simply disappeared.
You call the people who pre-ordered the season foolish, but you assume that everyone who did so shares your opinion and will be unhappy with the second half of the season. Let's, just for the sake of argument say that some of those full season buyers in fact liked the games (I know, it's an insane notion, but humor me). By purchasing the season upfront rather than buying all the games separately, they saved close to twenty dollars.
I find it hard to believe that many people will feel ripped off by these games considering the pricing structure. $9 for one episode? $35 for all six? Someone who shoveled out the dough for these games thinking they were going to be vastly different from what they turned out to be were simply not paying attention, didn't do their research, and are my idea of foolish. People who paid for the whole season knew it was something of a gamble, but those people were also probably Sam & Max fans and read enough to have an idea of what to expect about difficulty and length, and anyone who falls under that category is unlikely to be disappointed.
Also, I wonder how much storyboarding Telltale is doing? Storyboarding is an effective design and planning tool.
"For one thing I don't think any of us know enough to start assigning percentage values to the number of people who liked/disliked the game."
Umm, why are people having comprehension problems. I was showing HOW sales would be very indicative. If they either went down or stayed flat. The point being that sales are MUCH more indicative of popularity than gametap ratings.. This is not complicated people. I even step by step showed you WHY sales would be more important.. and instead of getting that, you get mad at a example I give and assume it is fact? Huh!?
People need to understand that an example is not reality. Example is to show a point, which went right over the rabid fans' heads. It is NOT a prediction. It shows how trends would show significance way more than gametap. Get it?
If each episode continues to be 1.5 hours and they paid upfront, I sure as hell would feel ripped. Again, I gave an EXAMPLE of what COULD happen if things keep going in the current trend.
Quit the rabid fan syndrome and try to understand what I posted before responding in haste.
Please stop resorting to the argument that people don't understand what you're saying or speak English--it really is getting old.
I don't have to explain again why the success on Gametap does matter, and why it translates to a financial boon to Telltale. Dan Connors even mentions in a recent interview how much Gametap has done to make their company a success.
There are indications that the pre-order deal will not last for long--(I can dig out the URLs if you want) and why would it? Why would you charge people willing to pre-order the same price for people who are waiting until the end?
I'm fully aware that people on forums are a super-small minority, but I base what people say about price not on this forum but on a lot of mainstream places like 1up, Kotaku, and Joystiq. Not to mention things gleaned from interviews and posts from people like Dan Connors, Dave Grossman and other Telltale people that indicate that many of the things people say on the forums are less indicative of the general public, especially in regards to the difficulty debate.
The reason Gametap rankings were brought up in the first place is that Gametap is the company that funded these games, ergo if Gametap is happy with how the games are performing on their end, it makes the possibility of a second season more likely. Of course, the fact that a Sam & Max game often appears on that list doesn't necessarily mean much, but Gametap is significant because they're very much part of the reason the Sam & Max episodes got made in the first place.
But you didn't pay upfront. The majority of people who would blind buy a game for 35 bucks are the kind of people who are diehard Sam & Max fans and who read up enough to know what they were buying. (Fun fact: Dan Connors said that each episode would be ~1.5-2 hours in length before the first episode was released.) In the case of most people I would say that if you feel ripped in pre-ordering the whole dang season you have yourself to blame.
What COULD happen? In other words, your example's worthless.
No, the example gives all possibilities. Either the sales have slumped or the sales have stayed the same or somewhere in between. Say it with me: the example is used to show why sales would be more indicative than gametap.
"shadow9d9, who is this nonexistent person who said that Gametap rankings were more important than sales? "
Someone said gametap was important as an indication. I responded saying that sales would be more indicative and explained how. Say it with me: Point was that sales would be more indicative. Refer to the example for HOW.
As I said, gametap is a financial success. However, it does little to gauge consumer content compared to sales, which was the point trying to be made.
It may be a pre-order deal, but it very well could be a package deal too. For example, Agon is $10 per episode but 3rd one free with "subscription" of first 2. Keeping a package deal would be logical, even if the deal is not as good as the pre-order deal.
I never got the impression Season 1 was meant to be a 15 hour (or however many hours you want to use) game. It was meant to be standalone episodes that had a common theme and an overall plot. They are standalone games. Much of the disappointment comes from the expectations that the players bring into it and when those aren't met, it becomes the game's fault which seems unfair to me.
Everyone comes to the table with different gaming needs and if your (I'm speaking to no one specifically) particular needs aren't being met, find the game that will meet them and stop pissing all over the games that don't do it. It just gets tiresome to hear the bitching and moaning that goes on when expectations aren't met (especially when you've only spent $0.99 to play the games. If you had dropped $30-$40, I might have more sympathy).
You need to spend money in order to give criticisms in hope of better future games? They have it for 99 cents, should I pay more just to have my opinion heard? And at least 5 people out of the ten who hav responded here actually agree with me.. imagine that!
Imagine that!
Well, just played 1 and 2 and I was right-review
Before you played the game(s) you had preconceived ideas of how it wouldn't live up to your expectations. And lo and behold...
Keeping low expectations leads to being able to be pleasantly surprised. And if I were the only one to think that way, I'd call it as you do. But I don't.
Plus the fact that the original Sam and Max was amazing.. I hoped for the best and that maybe the reviews would be wrong...
As has been pointed out many other times, nobody ever questioned that sales was not more indicative or more important--the problem with looking at sales figures is that only Telltale is privy to that information, so the layman must use other factors (Gametap rankings, comments on mainstream websites, comments by Telltale employees that reveal the general level of feedback they're receiving) if they want to gauge general satisfaction.
This was the point I was trying to make, but I'll concede that maybe the point didn't come across in my writing--in effect, my bad, not yours--I'll assume you read my posts multiple times and that you are a native speaker of English.
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Originally Posted by shadow9d9 View Post
And at least 5 people out of the ten who hav responded here actually agree with me.. imagine that!
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Originally Posted by shadow9d9 View Post
And you think people "talking" about how they feel here are indicative of how things are. Sadly, people that post in forums are a super small vocal minority. If you think they represent the majority, you are quite wrong.
It is easy to quote out of context.
The first quote was to show that I am not the ONLY one with my feelings, which could lead to the conclusion that I am a lone skeptic.
The second is referring to the sales/success of a game as a whole.
Again, you fail at comprehension, which requires context.