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In regards to the "Real Max" (spoilers!)

GeorgeCGeorgeC
edited January 2011 in Sam & Max
At the end of episode 305 when
Max sacrifices himself to save the rest
we later find out that there are actually two max's in existence, and theres lots of discussion about people being sad because the
REAL max is dead.
Where did telltale intend to go with this, is it going to be part of series 4, or is it just the same old max, just from a past time? And if
Sam dies too, according to max after they meet up again
why is no one bothered about that? Wouldn't there be two Sams too?

Confused!

Comments

  • Gman5852Gman5852
    edited January 2011
    In episode 204 sam and max created a paradox where there are now 2 sams and 2 maxes.
    That explains the whole second max thing, and the other sam being dead makes sense, but I wished they did the original intention from that meeting(max 2 meets Sam 1 while carrying Sam 2's body)
  • GuruGuru214GuruGuru214
    edited January 2011
    Hang on, I still have this thing somewhere... Ah, here we go!

    SamandMaxtimelineB.png

    Personally, I prefer the simpler version, but some people had some problems with it, so I had to complicate it a bit. This is what I prefer:

    SamandMaxtimeline.png
  • M-manM-man
    edited January 2011
    I get it now! Thank you, I almost killed myself because of the confusion when i finished the episode! I thought Max A was from an alternate dimension or something. But that means he never experienced Season Two and most of Season 1! That sucks! He will be confused when he sees the neighborhood!
  • Vyse220Vyse220
    edited January 2011
    M-man wrote: »
    I get it now! Thank you, I almost killed myself because of the confusion when i finished the episode! I thought Max A was from an alternate dimension or something. But that means he never experienced Season Two and most of Season 1! That sucks! He will be confused when he sees the neighborhood!

    well, in one ending sam & max took the time machine, maybe the other neighborhood is the same as the start of season 1
  • FlyFly
    edited January 2011
    Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I really, really don't understand why everyone's so obsessed with who is 'the real' Max, or with seeing Sam feeling bad about 'the real' Max, or any of that at all. Max is Max is Max is Max is Max, and even without the Word of God stuff about the hive mind, Maxes need Sams, and Sams need Maxes, and no matter what timeline Max is from, he and Sam are best friends.

    Anything beyond that feels like pedantry.
  • CheriCheri
    edited January 2011
    Fly wrote: »
    Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I really, really don't understand why everyone's so obsessed with who is 'the real' Max, or with seeing Sam feeling bad about 'the real' Max, or any of that at all. Max is Max is Max is Max is Max, and even without the Word of God stuff about the hive mind, Maxes need Sams, and Sams need Maxes, and no matter what timeline Max is from, he and Sam are best friends.

    Anything beyond that feels like pedantry.

    Quoting for emphasis.
  • crfhcrfh
    edited January 2011
    They have been friends for decades, one or two years lost mean nothing, especially since Max has "the memory of a dried trout."
  • light_riseslight_rises
    edited January 2011
    Fly wrote: »
    Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I really, really don't understand why everyone's so obsessed with who is 'the real' Max, or with seeing Sam feeling bad about 'the real' Max, or any of that at all. Max is Max is Max is Max is Max, and even without the Word of God stuff about the hive mind, Maxes need Sams, and Sams need Maxes, and no matter what timeline Max is from, he and Sam are best friends.

    Anything beyond that feels like pedantry.

    I can understand it; just speaking of my own experience right after finishing 305, it felt (at least at first blush) as though the particular iteration of the character I'd gotten to know and love throughout Seasons 1-3 was gone for good. But! I ultimately agree that you're 100% correct. I won't lie by saying that the hive mind theory doesn't help me feel better about it, but that's a very personal "me" thing, not a "nuuuu Telltale screwed up Sam & Max and now it won't ever be the same!" thing.

    So yeah. Quoting for response and for double emphasis. *fistbump*
    crfh wrote: »
    They have been friends for decades, one or two years lost mean nothing, especially since Max has "the memory of a dried trout."

    And this too. The duplicates would have been one in the same with "our" Sam and Max if not for the latter's tampering with the time stream, after all.

    Also! GuruGuru? Still love that you put those charts together. Didn't get a chance to say that back in the day really only a few months ago, but it's the internet so yeah, so I wanted to (belatedly) mention my appreciation. :)
  • 1nky1nky
    edited January 2011
    I did initially find the whole 'Max X as a replacement' thing a little depressing - I occasionally still do. But after reading through all this thread's justification it does make a lot of sense...
    Fly wrote: »
    Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I really, really don't understand why everyone's so obsessed with who is 'the real' Max, or with seeing Sam feeling bad about 'the real' Max, or any of that at all. Max is Max is Max is Max is Max, and even without the Word of God stuff about the hive mind, Maxes need Sams, and Sams need Maxes, and no matter what timeline Max is from, he and Sam are best friends.

    Anything beyond that feels like pedantry.

    Incredibly true. :D
  • GeorgeCGeorgeC
    edited January 2011
    Nice flow chart, thanks!
    Fly wrote: »
    Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I really, really don't understand why everyone's so obsessed with who is 'the real' Max, or with seeing Sam feeling bad about 'the real' Max, or any of that at all. Max is Max is Max is Max is Max, and even without the Word of God stuff about the hive mind, Maxes need Sams, and Sams need Maxes, and no matter what timeline Max is from, he and Sam are best friends.

    Anything beyond that feels like pedantry.

    I guess it depends on how much you let video games affect you, If you play just for the fun of it I guess you wouldn't care, but if you really get into the game it's a bit of a downer when you find out things you don't want to happen (just like in a good film when the protaganist dies or something)
  • FlyFly
    edited January 2011
    GeorgeC wrote: »
    but if you really get into the game it's a bit of a downer when you find out things you don't want to happen (just like in a good film when the protaganist dies or something)

    Oh, don't get me wrong. I have a long history of getting emotionally invested in video games to embarrassing levels, and Devil's Playhouse wasn't an exception. I was genuinely upset when Max died, and even knowing that Sam's credits walk was a parody, I found it straightforwardly sad (although I did laugh a little bit at Sam's look at the Statue of Liberty, because of how Max at least died doing what he loved).

    But, overall, I think the ending was happy:
    1) No more rogue fragment of Max's personality trying to kill everyone in a horrible psychic apocalypse!
    2) Max gets Sam back!
    3) Sam gets Max back!
    4) They now both each have memories of the other being a giant destructive beast that gruesomely explodes. In particular, Max has now actually murdered Sam. This would probably test most friendships, but in the case of Sam and Max I think it can only bring them closer together.
    5) They can go crimefighting/adventuring together, just like before.

    I wouldn't mind seeing Telltale address/deconstruct the switch, but I also would be totally satisfied if they don't. And it feels to me that people saying 'yeah, but it's not his Max' are missing the point.
  • Player_2Player_2
    edited January 2011
    Fly wrote: »
    No more rogue fragment of Max's personality trying to kill everyone in a horrible psychic apocalypse!

    Wait a sec. This alternate Max - I don't care if he's the "real" one or not anymore, but wouldn't his Superego still hold a grudge? Because he's still Max, just from a different timeline, so his Id would still be dominant, and his Superego wouldn't have had the revelation that he was worth living after all. Since he never developed psychic powers, it wouldn't be taken to the extreme like that, but wouldn't he still technically have a fragment of his personality that resented him and was trying to commit suicide?

    If we could all just agree that he was from an alternate universe, then I wouldn't care, but the dominant theory seems to be that he's just from an alternate timeline - so wouldn't this still be an issue? NITPICK NITPICK NITPICK.

    Maybe he just needs a good few weeks in therapy to deal with the whole split personality issue and then he'll be fine.
  • crfhcrfh
    edited January 2011
    Possibly since Sam knows the problem it could potentially be addressed in case it threatens to get out of hand again.
  • GuruGuru214GuruGuru214
    edited January 2011
    As far as this Max being any more or less "real" than the other, I refer you to one of Doc's quotes from BttF 101: "It's the exact same DeLorean!" When something is a time travel duplicate, it's equally as real as the original and identical up to the point where the timeline forked. This is a Max who went through Culture Shock and most of Situation: Comedy and everything that came before them, including when Sam and Max Prime went back and screwed with their childhoods, only now he doesn't get the pleasure of doing that to himself in the future.
  • ragdoll556ragdoll556
    edited January 2011
    Assuming Max has a hive mind, and is therefore able to exist in multiple versions of himself, wouldn't his superego be able to do the same? The Superego in max prime would have been transfered to the alternate max along with the rest of max's mind. Hopefully, this means that the superego won't try to kill max again.
  • Gman5852Gman5852
    edited January 2011
    ragdoll556 wrote: »
    Assuming Max has a hive mind, and is therefore able to exist in multiple versions of himself, wouldn't his superego be able to do the same? The Superego in max prime would have been transfered to the alternate max along with the rest of max's mind. Hopefully, this means that the superego won't try to kill max again.

    Well I was worried about the super ego because of a new max, but since this is true, maybe he will be just a narrator this time. I kind of liked him.
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