True, and we still don't know how Edna's shoe ended up in the DeLorean.
My guess on the arsonist is it's Marty or Doc, and they do it accidentally.
it can't be einstein, marty or doc as the speakeasy burned down in the unchanged timeline, doc mentions it in the hotel, it could be edna but it most probably not.
I vote either Marty, Doc or FCB.
well...at least for the dinomite in the 2nd speakeasy.
The dinomite was a bit too coincidental and helpful.
Maby in the original timeline, the speakeasy was never blown up and what we think is an original event is actually a ripple effect of Doc timetravelling.
What another person suggested was we could be playing as a second Marty.
ie. future Marty and/or Doc could have told/influenced current Doc to go to 1931 in order to prevent a paradox or something like that.
True, and we still don't know how Edna's shoe ended up in the DeLorean.
Spoiler for final episode
Edna plays a bigger part than you'd think. In the end she actually helps out Doc by sending Einstein back in time. She finds out about the time machine but she pretends not to know anything, because she knows the importance of the situation.
She falls for Doc.
Proof? She keeps looking for him, she keeps every single newspaper. No real journalist would do that, no matter how egocentric. The end.
People it can't be Marty. When marty reads about the speak easy at the start of episode 1, he has not travelled to 1931 yet so anything he ends up doing in 1931 is not in the timeline yet.
Personally, I wouldn't be to surprised if it was still Edna, especially after her line about the lengths people would go to for right and wrong in the first game.
People it can't be Marty. When marty reads about the speak easy at the start of episode 1, he has not travelled to 1931 yet so anything he ends up doing in 1931 is not in the timeline yet.
I repeat from another thread:
Play ep1 again. You will notice similarities between how einsting and Marty act in ep1 and ep2.
Before you comment, PLAY EP1 AGAIN FOLLOWED BY EP2 AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS!
Aren't more speakeasies revealed to have been torched between episodes 1 and 2? I'm pretty sure it couldn't be some kind of causality-loop, even if such things were allowed by the rules of the trilogy.
I vote either Marty, Doc or FCB.
Maby in the original timeline, the speakeasy was never blown up and what we think is an original event is actually a ripple effect of Doc timetravelling.
Couldn't be, because in both episodes Doc says that he was trying to find out who burned down the speakeasy in Timeline A.
I repeat from another thread:
Play ep1 again. You will notice similarities between how einsting and Marty act in ep1 and ep2.
Before you comment, PLAY EP1 AGAIN FOLLOWED BY EP2 AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS!
Yes what are you talking about? The rules of BTTF clearly state that the timeline does not expect time travel hence why we see photos and newspapers change in every film and so far both episodes. If the time line expected time travel, there would be no alternate timelines that we see (and we are now up to 5 different versions of 1985-86; the original one where biff totals georges car, the second one where marty owns a 4x4, the one where biff is rich and george is dead, the one where Biff has siblings due to his father not going to jail, and now the first citizen brown timeline). Notice how at the beginning of the first film, Lorraine and George met by george getting hit by the car but this is no longer the case?
So I repeat MARTY CAN NOT BE THE ARSONIST as he still to this point has never been to 1931 prior to the speakeasy burning down.
So who could it be?
Doc says he didnt and now i really hope he didnt (unless its an odd twist where 1931 doc did). The reason being that doc has never lied to marty during the trilogy and first episode.
The jury is still out on the edna character as to whether we should like her or hate her; the 1986 version of her is an antagonist, the 1931 version she is a protagonist, and it looks like the 1986 in FCB timeline she will be an antagonist again. Her brother is an antagonist type (not severely but he's not nice to George or Marty) while Marshall strickland is kind of a protagonist (in the sense that he's an antagonist to the antagonist in part III).
I can't imagine it was Kid tannen. Artie probably doesn't have it in him to do something like that although it wouldn't be a huge shocker. Trixie is a huge possibility, she did want to bring Kid down.
I find it interesting that Arty has been out of town right up until the day that Doc and Marty returned to 1931. Also interesting is that dynamite was discovered in the new speakeasy on the same day that Arty returned. Maybe we should look at his travel itinerary and see which towns he's been visiting and whether they coincide with any noteworthy speakeasy fires mentioned in Episode 2.
It could just be a red herring. But the pieces seem to fit.
I don't think Artie or Trixie did it. Artie wouldn't really have the guts to do it since he could barely summon up the courage to give evidence against Kid in episode 1. Trixie wouldn't need to destroy the speakeasy since she already had evidence that could send Kid to prison.
And didn't Kid imply that he actually caught Edna planting the explosives? I'm afraid I don't remember exactly what he said so I may be wrong.
I don't think Artie or Trixie did it. Artie wouldn't really have the guts to do it since he could barely summon up the courage to give evidence against Kid in episode 1. Trixie wouldn't need to destroy the speakeasy since she already had evidence that could send Kid to prison.
And didn't Kid imply that he actually caught Edna planting the explosives? I'm afraid I don't remember exactly what he said so I may be wrong.
He did say that, though Edna protested her innocence. Honestly, it's most likely her. Some of the things she says, plus the way Einstein attacks her makes me think she did it.
He did say that, though Edna protested her innocence. Honestly, it's most likely her. Some of the things she says, plus the way Einstein attacks her makes me think she did it.
I wonder if that is how the shoe ends up in the delorean; einstein sees her planting the explosive, attacks her and takes he shoe. Mind you this shoe thing is something i'm having trouble wrapping my brain around; it could not have come from a later time travel in epsidodes 3-5 since they have not happened yet and this would not fit the space time continuim the way BTTF has it. But it doesn't appear that einstein had stolen her shoe yet or she would have complained about that?
You know, when it comes to time travel stories, there's always the possibility of a stable time loop. In this case, it's one that spans through about a dozen different timelines, but still stable. What we assume is the original timeline where Doc dies may actually be one part of a cycling set of timelines from repeated meddling by Marty. Next timeline we wind up with is where Doc dies in a different way. Then where Marty's dad was never born. Then where the Tannens own the town. Then where First Citizen Brown rules with an iron fist. And then a few others that we might visit in the later parts. The story may end with one of our existing characters going back to before the whole debacle happened in order to set the speakeasy on fire and get the plot rolling in the first place.
Having said that... It might be that Doc really did start the fire. He knocked himself out so that there wouldn't be any witnesses. How else would the arsonist know where to find him?
Other possibilities for the arsonist: Marty. Einstein. The other Einstein. Hitler (why do time travellers always somehow wind up meeting him?). Carl Sagan. John F Kennedy, right before he assassinated himself. With time travel and stable time loops, anything is possible.
Again I re-iterate, IT CAN NOT BE MARTY. Read my rationale listed above.
There is the theory that maybe the doc and marty we are witnessing are not the most current versions and there's already been later versions travel through time but if this were the case then there would be no 'carl sagan murdered' newspaper or marty disappearing. Similar to how in part II when Marty is in 1955, he does not start disappearing at the same time his other self does from part I.
When Marty arrives in 1931, Einstein paws at Edna and she says, "That mangy dog assaulted me once before" before going into the store, griping and whining about how something's a law and we should look it up. It can be inferred that when Doc was thrown in jail, Einstein then assaulted Edna, took the shoe, and went back to the DeLorean. That way, if Doc was fine, he was sitting there ready to go home. If he wasn't, he would arrive in 1986 to find Marty.
Again I re-iterate, IT CAN NOT BE MARTY. Read my rationale listed above.
I have decided that this would be a lame twist anyway. Edna just seems to obvious. Doc maybe, but this still seems unlikely because of Doc's explanation (or lack thereof) for visiting 1931 in the first place. I think maybe young Emmit unintentionally burned down the speakeasy (similar to how he burns down his home later) The speakeasy was right next door to the lawyers office right? He admits to knowing Trixie. Maybe I'm way off.... still 3 more episodes so my theory could change dramatically in March.
It's always really bugged me when time travel stories combine elements of you-can-alter-history theories with you-can't-alter-history theories. Star Trek, Stargate, and Doctor Who have all done it. And, most egregiously, so has "The End of Eternity". (I expect better from you, Isaac Asimov!) You have to pick what rules you're going to follow and stick with them, I say.
and for me is strange when doc leaves marty in the bad 1986, he doesnt go to watch clara and the kids...thats weird...he has another agenda...
when you have a time machine, you dont need to prioritize because you have an abundance of... time. He likely would have gone back to clara once he finished time travelling.
He could have done it to save Trixie, and notice that suddenly Artie returns to Hill Valley shortly before the dynamites appear.
Like I said before, I'm really hoping the culprit is Artie.
The only problem is that it's shown that Artie is deathly afraid of Kid. He's obviously intimidated by him and I doubt he'd be able to build up enough courage to burn down the speakeasy. I wouldn't be surprised if he did it by accident though.
Placing dynamite sticks around the place...Well I doubt that could happen accidentally.
Perhaps there are two arsonists, and Artie is only the Arsonist of the first speakeasy?
Sorry if I was unclear, what you said was exactly what I was implying. Artie would have been responsible for the first speakeasy but someone else might have been 'inspired' by his work and taken the initiative to try and burn down the second speakeasy.
I thought within the first 5 minutes of being in 1931 in episode 1, that Edna was the arsonist. Here's the evidence:
- When interviewing Marty she hailed the arsonist as a hero.
- She heads the Stay Sober Society which makes a stand against alcohol
- She's the most vocal opponent of the speakeasy
- Doc says he was thrown out of the way by the blast, and didn't see who the arsonist was, but Einstein possibly did... and Edna did say that Einstein attacked her, thereby getting her shoe. In this game Einstein seems to have a functioning moral compass and seeing Edna blow up a building would set him off.
I would say that I'm 95% sure that it was Edna who blew up the speakeasy (of course I'd have to leave room for some sort of crazy plot twist)
I thought within the first 5 minutes of being in 1931 in episode 1, that Edna was the arsonist. Here's the evidence:
- When interviewing Marty she hailed the arsonist as a hero.
- She heads the Stay Sober Society which makes a stand against alcohol
- She's the most vocal opponent of the speakeasy
- Doc says he was thrown out of the way by the blast, and didn't see who the arsonist was, but Einstein possibly did... and Edna did say that Einstein attacked her, thereby getting her shoe. In this game Einstein seems to have a functioning moral compass and seeing Edna blow up a building would set him off.
I would say that I'm 95% sure that it was Edna who blew up the speakeasy (of course I'd have to leave room for some sort of crazy plot twist)
And yet, when Kid caught her and accused her; she claimed she was researching for her story. She was already tied up at that point and Kid was clearly ignoring her pleas of innocence. It sounded more like Kid had jumped to conclusions when he saw Edna near the dynamite and figured she was the arsonist. If she really was the arsonist, I'm sure she would have at least come clean towards the end when Kid's arrested.
In terms of the shoe, we still have three more episodes to play through until we get a straight answer as to why it was in the DeLorean. While it's plausible that Einstein stole the shoe, there are a number of ways she could have lost it.
I just think that Edna is too obvious of a choice to be the arsonist.
While I think Edna might have WANTED to burn down the speakeasy, I don't think she'd simply break the law like that even she believed it to be morally right. Given her personality, I don't think she'd do something that outrageous.
Why would she risk her job with a stunt like that? Let's not forget that the speakeasy is in the middle of town. She would risk being seen by others and she would be putting her life at risk with Kid. I think that she was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time when Kid got a hold of her.
I think if the writers wanted it to be edna, they'd have purposely given her some suspicious behaviour in the first 2 episodes when discussing the speakeasy (old edna and young edna). At least the 1931 version seems to have the stance of standing up for what she believes in but without breaking the law.
Comments
My guess on the arsonist is it's Marty or Doc, and they do it accidentally.
it can't be einstein, marty or doc as the speakeasy burned down in the unchanged timeline, doc mentions it in the hotel, it could be edna but it most probably not.
well...at least for the dinomite in the 2nd speakeasy.
The dinomite was a bit too coincidental and helpful.
Maby in the original timeline, the speakeasy was never blown up and what we think is an original event is actually a ripple effect of Doc timetravelling.
What another person suggested was we could be playing as a second Marty.
ie. future Marty and/or Doc could have told/influenced current Doc to go to 1931 in order to prevent a paradox or something like that.
Spoiler for final episode
She falls for Doc.
Proof? She keeps looking for him, she keeps every single newspaper. No real journalist would do that, no matter how egocentric. The end.
At least, I think so.
I repeat from another thread:
Play ep1 again. You will notice similarities between how einsting and Marty act in ep1 and ep2.
Before you comment, PLAY EP1 AGAIN FOLLOWED BY EP2 AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HAPPENS!
What are you referring to?
Couldn't be, because in both episodes Doc says that he was trying to find out who burned down the speakeasy in Timeline A.
Yes what are you talking about? The rules of BTTF clearly state that the timeline does not expect time travel hence why we see photos and newspapers change in every film and so far both episodes. If the time line expected time travel, there would be no alternate timelines that we see (and we are now up to 5 different versions of 1985-86; the original one where biff totals georges car, the second one where marty owns a 4x4, the one where biff is rich and george is dead, the one where Biff has siblings due to his father not going to jail, and now the first citizen brown timeline). Notice how at the beginning of the first film, Lorraine and George met by george getting hit by the car but this is no longer the case?
So I repeat MARTY CAN NOT BE THE ARSONIST as he still to this point has never been to 1931 prior to the speakeasy burning down.
So who could it be?
Doc says he didnt and now i really hope he didnt (unless its an odd twist where 1931 doc did). The reason being that doc has never lied to marty during the trilogy and first episode.
The jury is still out on the edna character as to whether we should like her or hate her; the 1986 version of her is an antagonist, the 1931 version she is a protagonist, and it looks like the 1986 in FCB timeline she will be an antagonist again. Her brother is an antagonist type (not severely but he's not nice to George or Marty) while Marshall strickland is kind of a protagonist (in the sense that he's an antagonist to the antagonist in part III).
I can't imagine it was Kid tannen. Artie probably doesn't have it in him to do something like that although it wouldn't be a huge shocker. Trixie is a huge possibility, she did want to bring Kid down.
It could just be a red herring. But the pieces seem to fit.
And didn't Kid imply that he actually caught Edna planting the explosives? I'm afraid I don't remember exactly what he said so I may be wrong.
He did say that, though Edna protested her innocence. Honestly, it's most likely her. Some of the things she says, plus the way Einstein attacks her makes me think she did it.
I wonder if that is how the shoe ends up in the delorean; einstein sees her planting the explosive, attacks her and takes he shoe. Mind you this shoe thing is something i'm having trouble wrapping my brain around; it could not have come from a later time travel in epsidodes 3-5 since they have not happened yet and this would not fit the space time continuim the way BTTF has it. But it doesn't appear that einstein had stolen her shoe yet or she would have complained about that?
Having said that... It might be that Doc really did start the fire. He knocked himself out so that there wouldn't be any witnesses. How else would the arsonist know where to find him?
Other possibilities for the arsonist: Marty. Einstein. The other Einstein. Hitler (why do time travellers always somehow wind up meeting him?). Carl Sagan. John F Kennedy, right before he assassinated himself. With time travel and stable time loops, anything is possible.
There is the theory that maybe the doc and marty we are witnessing are not the most current versions and there's already been later versions travel through time but if this were the case then there would be no 'carl sagan murdered' newspaper or marty disappearing. Similar to how in part II when Marty is in 1955, he does not start disappearing at the same time his other self does from part I.
I have decided that this would be a lame twist anyway. Edna just seems to obvious. Doc maybe, but this still seems unlikely because of Doc's explanation (or lack thereof) for visiting 1931 in the first place. I think maybe young Emmit unintentionally burned down the speakeasy (similar to how he burns down his home later) The speakeasy was right next door to the lawyers office right? He admits to knowing Trixie. Maybe I'm way off.... still 3 more episodes so my theory could change dramatically in March.
The least suspecting. Of course, It makes so much sense now. Seriously though, now I want Artie to be the culprit.
that would be boring...jaja but thats my bet
and for me is strange when doc leaves marty in the bad 1986, he doesnt go to watch clara and the kids...thats weird...he has another agenda...
Yeah, he went to go clear up his financial troubles. It doesn't matter when he goes back to Clara and the kids. He's got a time machine!
when you have a time machine, you dont need to prioritize because you have an abundance of... time. He likely would have gone back to clara once he finished time travelling.
He could have done it to save Trixie, and notice that suddenly Artie returns to Hill Valley shortly before the dynamites appear.
Like I said before, I'm really hoping the culprit is Artie.
The only problem is that it's shown that Artie is deathly afraid of Kid. He's obviously intimidated by him and I doubt he'd be able to build up enough courage to burn down the speakeasy. I wouldn't be surprised if he did it by accident though.
Perhaps there are two arsonists, and Artie is only the Arsonist of the first speakeasy?
Sorry if I was unclear, what you said was exactly what I was implying. Artie would have been responsible for the first speakeasy but someone else might have been 'inspired' by his work and taken the initiative to try and burn down the second speakeasy.
- When interviewing Marty she hailed the arsonist as a hero.
- She heads the Stay Sober Society which makes a stand against alcohol
- She's the most vocal opponent of the speakeasy
- Doc says he was thrown out of the way by the blast, and didn't see who the arsonist was, but Einstein possibly did... and Edna did say that Einstein attacked her, thereby getting her shoe. In this game Einstein seems to have a functioning moral compass and seeing Edna blow up a building would set him off.
I would say that I'm 95% sure that it was Edna who blew up the speakeasy (of course I'd have to leave room for some sort of crazy plot twist)
And yet, when Kid caught her and accused her; she claimed she was researching for her story. She was already tied up at that point and Kid was clearly ignoring her pleas of innocence. It sounded more like Kid had jumped to conclusions when he saw Edna near the dynamite and figured she was the arsonist. If she really was the arsonist, I'm sure she would have at least come clean towards the end when Kid's arrested.
In terms of the shoe, we still have three more episodes to play through until we get a straight answer as to why it was in the DeLorean. While it's plausible that Einstein stole the shoe, there are a number of ways she could have lost it.
I just think that Edna is too obvious of a choice to be the arsonist.
Old Edna said that it was stolen by a dog. Meaning Einstein. We're still not sure how he got in the DeLorean, but he's a smart dog.
Why would she risk her job with a stunt like that? Let's not forget that the speakeasy is in the middle of town. She would risk being seen by others and she would be putting her life at risk with Kid. I think that she was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time when Kid got a hold of her.
If the culprit is Marty of FCB (whether deliberate or accedental)...
I want...something...
giant awesome cookie perhaps?