I probably would have put LESS options lol. Like North America instead of USA + Canada, and Western Europe, Central Europe and Eastern Europe instead of individual countries, and stuff like that.
That would have given a good idea per region. As it it "Other European country" is over Benelux, so someone from either of these three countries might answer "other European country" before they see the Benelux option, for instance.
But hey, we're not here to judge your polling skills
I wanted to separate Canada and the US specifically because I live in Canada and wanted to see how many Canadians are here. I really don't know enough about global video game consuming countries to be able to list all the correct ones, though. Which I stated in the opening post.
God save our gracious King,
Long live our noble King,
God save the King:
Send him victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the King.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
From France and Pretender
Great Britain defend her,
Foes let them fall;
From foreign slavery,
Priests and their knavery,
And Popish Reverie,
God save us all.
Benelux it is, then. I wonder what we did to come first in that acronym, by the way. I guess Nebelux sounded to SF, and Luxbene or Luxnebe are just unpronouncable.
My parents and I are the only part of my family in the U.S. for some odd reason. Lived in New York my whole life.
My mother's family lives in Germany and the Netherlands, and my father's family lives in France, Spain and Switzerland. And yet they all come to us for family gatherings.
. I've found that after 9 years living in western Oregon, I actually get sick if I'm in an area without a lot of trees/greenery. It's sad.
But yeah, where I live is the land of hippies, hipsters, and the smallest big city in the US. And there's a pretty cool food scene, so I'm satisfied.
Ewwwww no wonder I don't like you, and yes... that is sad...
Just kidding well mostly I also live in, well the same city you do apparently :eek: Oregon, but let's just say I've only been here 5 years and I'm not exactly crazy about it. You guys DO realise you're almost entirely off the rest of the contries' radar, right? so to speak. Just stop being so full of yourselve's there I said it!
Just kidding well mostly I also live in, well the same city you do apparently :eek: Oregon, but let's just say I've only been here 5 years and I'm not exactly crazy about it. You guys DO realise you're almost entirely off the rest of the contries' radar, right? so to speak
I know so many people from Oregon. A lot moved to NY for some reason.
Yeah, Portland ain't for everyone and it's got it's lot of issues, but its a nice small city full of interesting people. Plus the nice thing about a small place like this is that you get excited when you meet someone from the same city or see something from the town go big. It's also very green here in both senses of the word. aka I like living here.
I don't mind not being the center of attention and so I don't see how I'm being full of myself.
...wait you dont like me?
Jenny: Funny you say that. I know a lot of people round here from New York. Maybe they swapped places. haha
Well maybe.... but I always wanted to visit Oregon. Many great writers live there, and it seems like a place that lends itself to a lot of imagination. The landscape looks gorgeous from photos I've seen too. Certainly seems like a nice place to vacation.
Jenny: Funny you say that. I know a lot of people round here from New York. Maybe they swapped places. haha
Reading my reply, you're probably right! I guess Oregon and NY are two extremes, so if you live in one place for a long time you want to visit the other.
I don't mind not being the center of attention and so I don't see how I'm being full of myself.
I wasn't referring to you in particular, just the people of Portland in general.
It's funny because everyone says it's all green and eco-friendly but it has just as much litter/garbage flying around in the wind as LA does... Just sayin'. Not tryin to argue with you or anything. [k PARTS of LA prob worse litter wise just sayin tho]
Well maybe.... but I always wanted to visit Oregon. Many great writers live there, and it seems like a place that lends itself to a lot of imagination. The landscape looks gorgeous from photos I've seen too. Certainly seems like a nice place to vacation.
Edit:
Reading my reply, you're probably right! I guess Oregon and NY are two extremes, so if you live in one place for a long time you want to visit the other.
Some of the scenery is pretty epic... But every state has epic scenery in it's own way...
I think west coast scenery just has a very different feel to it than east coast scenery. Everything seems to be bigger on the west coast (if that makes any sense). Although that might just be an east coast misconception.
Well let's see, west coast has forests, deserts/badlands, mountains... Sure I'm leaving stuff out.
East coast has swamps, also forests, grasslands/plains, and ummm, more swamps? lol to be fair I've only been along the southern states. Not counting Oregeon and Washington of course.
ohhhhh nothing... "golly, neato." sounds pretty sarcastic to me, but like I said I don't wanna make a thing about it. You're a fan of TT, that's good enough for me.
Wait, so you come up to me demonizing and passively aggressively attacking me with no real basis then ask me to sign an unnecessary peace treaty. I honestly had no beef with you in the first place.
Dude calm down I don't have any beef with you either, I just thought that sounded really sarcastic and condescending because, well, it did.
I honestly lost interest a while ago so I'm just gonna say don't take anything I said personally, you just sounded sarcastic in your reply to my PM, that's all...
Sorry if you thought I had some serious problem with you or something.. : \
and if it seemed like I was demonizing you or something, I was only joking.
for the record I'm just an over-the-top person, so for the most part it's best to just take what I say with a grain of salt.
I used to love Paris. So many things to do. You can go to Montparnasse, walk around, just find a theatre you like and start watching a movie (well, you have to pay. Unless you've got a monthly pass. Man, these things were neat, just over the price of two movie tickets every month and unlimited entrance.)
Here, you need to find a place that lists what moves are playing where and when, find a movie you like, look where it's playing, go for that specific time...
Argh! I don't like planning that much ahead for seeing a movie. The best movie experiences I've had where just walking into a theatre to see something I had never heard of.
Then you have all the free congresses and classes. I used to just go inside universities and sit to listen to the class. Anyone is free to watch even without registering, if you register to university that just means you get grades and stuff.
And the stores were awesome. I loved the Fnac so much. Electronics, games, books, music and movies all in the same store. And not just a few of each, a whole floor for each. Such a wonderful place to be.
And I loved being able to move how I wanted. With the month pass (50 euros a month, or 25 if you're a student, and if you've got a job you need to use transportation to go to, they pay half of your pass, too) you can use the subway, buses, tramways, boats on the Seine and Vélib', which are bikes. Although Vélib' is an extra 10 bucks but yearly. It works with the same pass though.
The pass has a chip, so you just slide it over the sensor, or if you're like me you keep it in your bag and walk in such a way that it's just read as you walk by and lets you in. Really handy.
Well, it doesn't "let you in" for the bikes since, you know, they're outside, but it lets you take one.
Anyways! I loved Paris. I couldn't see anything wrong with it. Then I went to spend a year in Canada and came back.
Now... I still love everything about Paris itself, but... When did it get that many people?!
Wikipedia says:
Paris is one of the most densely populated cities in the world. Its density, excluding the outlying woodland parks of Boulogne and Vincennes, was 24,448 inhabitants per square kilometre (63,320/sq mi) in the 1999 official census, which could be compared only with some Asian megapolis. Even including the two woodland areas its population density was 20,164 inhabitants per square kilometre (52,224.5/sq mi)
And that's ten years old. Population has boomed since then (and of course the city can't get bigger. You can just walk to the next town and not realise you're not in Paris anymore. I've done that often actually )
Anyway. After living in a place with less people (Canada), going back to Paris was hellish. Things I never cared about where like a nightmare. I started hating people. I really see how people who aren't from Paris all say Paris is a horrible place to live in (I mean French people. I know people from other countries see it as the city of love or something).
In a way, that makes me really sad. Now I don't really feel home in Paris anymore. And I don't feel home at all in Canada either. I don't have a home anymore :S
I feel bad for finding that very interesting, actually. I've never felt like I've belonged in any of the places I've lived since New York City, and I feel simply ecstatic when I go back to a major metropolitan area. Atlanta doesn't quite cut it, but Tokyo or visits back to NYC have been amazing, and I wonder how well I'll take to London when I vacation there in the summer.
Is it rude for me to ask what the average Parisian means of interaction is? New Yorkers are very "to the point", like, when I moved to the southern US I was very confused when people in the service industry asked me how my day was. It got a lot easier when I realized that it wasn't just weird service people stepping past my "personal space", but just a social convention that doesn't actually mean anything. The thing is, that sort of thing always rings as so fake. People down here always say that New Yorkers are "rude", but I always saw it as just "more sincere". People don't ask how you are unless they actually care, and there's no false cultural padding being added to everything.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this so I'm going to stop here before I offend people more than I probably already have.
Is it rude for me to ask what the average Parisian means of interaction is? New Yorkers are very "to the point", like, when I moved to the southern US I was very confused when people in the service industry asked me how my day was. It got a lot easier when I realized that it wasn't just weird service people stepping past my "personal space", but just a social convention that doesn't actually mean anything. The thing is, that sort of thing always rings as so fake. People down here always say that New Yorkers are "rude", but I always saw it as just "more sincere". People don't ask how you are unless they actually care, and there's no false cultural padding being added to everything.
Oh, I hate that too. The first time I arrived at the cash register and the person said "Hi, how are you today?" I was all "Do I know you?"
I think it's really the "today" that made it the weirdest. Like she had seen me before or was expecting to see me again or something. It was just weird. I've only worked in jobs that dealt with customers and you're supposed to say "Hello" and "Goodbye", but even "How are you?" is already drifting into "invading the customer's privacy" business.
As you said, it's not like the person actually cares, so I've always found that extremely hypocritical, and there is no reason I'd want to talk about my day or personal issues with a total stranger.
Waiters here also meddle in your conversations, that's so incredibly rude! They just pop out of nowhere and comment on something you've said. In France they leave you alone unless you call them, I've always found that much more polite.
I went to New York on my honeymoon, and I can tell you, I didn't meet one rude person. Everyone was absolutely awesome, I asked for help in the street and got it, things like that. So I really don't get why anyone would say that New Yorkers are rude.
Going back to the store things, I find that even "hello" and "goodbye" are rude to me if I didn't make eye contact with the person. Kid of "I've got my eye on you, now you make sure you buy something". If I don't look at the people when I enter a store, I like when they let me "breathe", don't talk to me, don't come to me, etc. If I need help I ask for it, if I'm in a social mood I make eye contact and smile. Otherwise, if they talk to me, say "hi" as I enter the store or anything like that, I usually just go straight out again unless I had something very important to get.
I mean, just get out of my face :S I don't understand why they don't see how rude that is.
Now, I'm not saying that I avoid eye contact even at the cash register or something, I mean when you're inside a store and minding your own business. If I buy something, of course I say hi to the person at the register, and take off my headphones and stuff.
Anyway, I find a lot of things about what's rude and what isn't is entirely cultural. I know Americans tend to think of French people as rude and vice-versa, simply because what's polite in one of the to countries tends to be rude in the other.
Of course, you do get rude people everywhere.
But to go back to what I think was your original point, I do think that more populated place have more respect for someone's personal space. My theory is that it's so crowded, personal space is something very important, and when you go talk to someone in a store, you might be disturbing their only few minutes of calm this week. So it's a pretty harsh thing to do.
But in smaller or less populated areas, everyone has personal space and personal time all the time. People are more likely to crave someone to talk to, and then it become a way to make someone feel less lonely. Might be their only social contact of the week, having someone walk up to them and ask how they can help them in a store.
So I think that's what it all boils down to, really.
I was always told foreigners, when come to Chile, are always surprised of how "warm" the people is here. Which, for me, does not compute, because: 1- I think we are more cold to other people we don't know and 2- the most out of the country I been in my life is Mendoza, Argentina, which is pretty much to the other side of the Andes two steps to the east. So, I don't really know how other people is, and Argentinians from Mendoza aren't that different, mind you.
The thing I know though, the bigger the city, the faster walk the people of there. I'm from a, relative small town, and, when I went to Santiago (Chile's Capital) with my parents, we are going in the car, fast, and always the people from there are going faster. The people walk faster when you are in the street too. But, appart of that, I don't see that much difference.
We have people who said "Welcome to" in certain stores, especially the big ones. But they sound SO bored I ussually smile them back, or said hi in return. That's normally make them feel better.
It's more than the fact that people meddle in your business though. It's also that when people do interact with you, there's always this set of pretenses and buffers between people. People in New York, when they do interact with you, they are as other people seem to put it "blunt".
When I was growing up, I always saw it as far more rude to say something you didn't mean and to have some sort of secret resentment for someone than to just say you don't like them. I oftentimes feel like I'm now living in cardboard cutout world of appearances and pretenses. Now, it's not like these things don't exist in New Yorkers, but they generally seemed to give way in accordance to with flimsy and insubstantial they actually are.
I don't know. I don't need to like everybody. Everybody doesn't need to like me. If I have to try hard to make sure that I can feel approved by everyone, I'm going to go insane.
Oh, yeah, that too I guess.
There was someone in university, whenever I talked to her, she interrupted to say things like "oh, wow!" and it was just weird. Now, the interrupting I don't mind, when you're French it's actually a big part of communication to all talk at the same time. But don't do it to say "wow!" when I only said I was going to drop by the cafeteria to get myself a sandwich.
Seriously, I always felt like she was making fun of me or calling me an idiot. Everything I said was amazing, to hear her. And she did that with everyone. That bugged me so much.
If you don't care about something, you can say "I don't care, you know." It's more polite than letting me talk without even listening. It's more polite than pretending you care and making me go into the trouble of telling you all about it because I think you're interested.
Heck, I even think it's more polite to just walk off while I'm talking than to pretend you're interested in what I'm saying when you're not.
Most people in Paris aren't going to pretend they're interested in what you're saying if they're not. Really, they probably won't talk to you in the first place if they're not interested in what you have to say. And that feels so much better. It's true that here in Canada I never know if I'm wasting my talking on someone who isn't even listening to me.
Plus interrupting each other and talking at the same time is less common, which leads me to keep wanting to say stuff but have to wait until the person is done, at which point I forgot most of what I wanted to say and I ended up not really listening to what they were saying afterwards. Which is just frustrating. I don't see why people are all "oh my got you violated me by interrupting me", it means I care enough about what you're saying to react to it.
I mean, it's not like I don't let people finish any of their sentences, or that I interrupt them to tell them they're doing things wrong before they even tell me how they're doing them.
Hm, maybe the idea that French people are rude mostly comes from Americans who don't live in metropolitan areas visiting Paris? The funny thing is that I identify with what you're saying about how people interact a lot more than I do with people who live not only on the same coastline, or on the same continent, but within the same borders and with the same language(more or less).
Hm, maybe the idea that French people are rude mostly comes from Americans who don't live in metropolitan areas visiting Paris?
Actually, I think the idea that French people are rude mostly comes from people who have never been to France, just like the idea that American people are rude mostly comes from people who haven't been to the US.
But then there are language things, too. Like, "demander" means to ask for, not to demand. "Supporter" means to bear, not to support.
Obviously if you want to say "I'm asking you for your opinion here" and say you're "demanding" someone's opinion, or if you want to say "I'll try to be supportive" and end up saying "I'll try to bear with you", you're going to have misunderstandings and be thought of as rude.
Because I don't think people living in rural areas are that likely to travel to the other end of the world, that is, in my opinion, I don't think they would in a proportion that largely outnumbers people from the city.
Although maybe rural people end up telling everyone they know French people are rude while city people just go back home and don't talk much about their trip at all
Oh, I hate that too. The first time I arrived at the cash register and the person said "Hi, how are you today?" I was all "Do I know you?"
I live in Oklahoma, which is Midwestern US rather than southern, but I think there's something to be said for simple courtesy, even if it does mean asking a generic question with the expectation of a generic response. In the circumstance of someone who works for tips, it makes sense to assume that being more personable/friendly means bigger tips, but even disregarding such instances, there's nothing wrong with simply being nice.
Although maybe rural people end up telling everyone they know French people are rude while city people just go back home and don't talk much about their trip at all
It's quite possible! I've noticed that people around here are a lot happier being rude to someone ELSE about another person, rather than be rude to their face. And the hilarious thing is that it stacks, like, "I can't believe that person ____!"(someone says as soon as they were being nice to a second ago is out of earshot). And then, you know, the person listening to them will nod and agree, until THAT person is out of earshot, and so on.
Also, I don't think people in rural or suburban areas are any less likely to WANT to travel. The idea that New York(and apparently Paris) are considered "A nice place to visit, but a bad place to live" must come from SOMEWHERE. And if you're willing to cross the country to visit a city, I don't think you'd be less willing to cross an ocean, barring any ocean-centric phobias.
I live in Oklahoma, which is Midwestern US rather than southern, but I think there's something to be said for simple courtesy, even if it does mean asking a generic question with the expectation of a generic response. In the circumstance of someone who works for tips, it makes sense to assume that being more personable/friendly means bigger tips, but even disregarding such instances, there's nothing wrong with simply being nice.
Life is too serious already anyway.
By the way, the specific mention of Southern US was because, well, that's my range of experience. I can't say what it's like in the midwest, because...I've never been there!
ever
Anyway, um. Why? To me, if a waiter is efficient, that's what determines a good tip. How quickly are they going to get to me, to everybody else, from me to the rest of his/her job if they're having discussions with me, and the guy one table over, and every other person in the place? Every time, it feels like an intrusion and a lie. "You don't care, why are you asking?"
What is the point in saying "How are you?" when anything more than "Good", "Bad", "OK" or "Fine" is going to be met with resentment?
I dunno, maybe it's just the way I was raised, but it bugs me on multiple levels. It's someone getting into my space, it feels insincere, and it feels like we're wasting each others' time with stuff that obviously doesn't actually matter.
Also, I don't think people in rural or suburban areas are any less likely to WANT to travel.
Not, but they might have jobs that pay less, meaning they can't afford that kind of traveling, and even if they earn the same or save the same (since these places are also cheaper to live in usually) there are less people living in rural areas than urban areas, so it would be weird if more of them are traveling.
I live in Oklahoma, which is Midwestern US rather than southern, but I think there's something to be said for simple courtesy, even if it does mean asking a generic question with the expectation of a generic response.
Well, if someone asks me "how are you" when they don't even know me it means that:
a) they actually want to know. In which case it's really on the same level (to me) as asking "Hi, did you have sex today?". It's personal and none of their business how I'm doing.
b) they don't actually want to know. They're expecting me to just say "fine", and not explain why I'm fine, and of course to lie if I'm not fine. They're putting me in a position where if I'm not fine and wants to talk about it, I need to shut up anyway or I'll be the rude one for making things awkward. They're putting me in a situation that if I'm having the worst day of my life, I'm expected to pretend I'm fine anyway. That's very, very, very rude in my book.
And really, it's just hypocritical. If you don't care if I'm fine or not, don't ask. You might think it's basic respect, I think it's basic disrespect. You meet a stranger and right off the bat you tell him "I'm gonna pretend I care about you because it's my job, but please don't actually answer my question sincerely because I don't give a sh*t."
In the circumstance of someone who works for tips, it makes sense to assume that being more personable/friendly means bigger tips, but even disregarding such instances, there's nothing wrong with simply being nice.
I'm not tipping someone who can't let me eat in peace. If I wanted to talk to people I would have brought them with me, and if I did bring them with me I don't want strangers to butt in.
Really, it's all cultural. You see it as being nice (and therefore a good idea for those who want tips), I see it as being rude (and therefore a bad idea for those who want tips).
As someone who grew up in (relatively) rural Georgia, I have the EXACT OPPOSITE view to Avistew and Dashing. I recently spent a week back home, and the one thing I couldn't help but notice over and over is just how friendly everyone was. A warm smile and a "how y'all doin'" could instantly brighten my day, and it happened with every person I saw!
But I think it's false to say that "how are you doing" is an entirely empty question. In my personal experience, I find that more often than not they are *genuinely interested* in your well being. Had a rough day? Anything I can do to ease the burden? Get you a sweet tea? It's a very community based society. It baffles me when I live or visit someplace where people won't even look in your direction, let alone smile and hold the door for you like a polite human being.
As for the duplicity that Dashing mentioned: yes, I think it's a problem in a society where you are expected to be polite to each other. But by the same token, I don't feel like it's any less of an issue in the other societies I've lived in. It's pretty universal that sometimes people are jerks.
As for living in New York or an equally crowded place, I wouldn't want to do it. It's not for a lack of trying though. I dated a girl in NYC for the better part of a year and couldn't even consider moving there. You are constantly surrounded by people, so you have no privacy. But by the same token, everyone ignores you so it's simultaneously one of the loneliest and most isolating places I've been. I'd rather have my own space, go out and see people when I want to, and then (because I WANT to be interacting with people) be friendly and carry on a conversation with complete strangers.
I don't think our vision of things is that different, Will.
That is, if the person is genuinely asking, then that's more okay. I'm a shy person (yeah, yeah) so it's easy for me to feel that people are being intrusive and indiscreet intrusive, but I can get past that if I see they actually care.
What I don't like at all are the people who say "how are you?" when they obviously don't care at all. I hate that.
It also depends on my level of stress. If I'm stressed out I really don't want anyone talking to me, because then I have to act in a socially accepted manner, which is stressful. If they leave me alone I can sort my problems and be ready to be all social again. I just need to have my own space, I guess.
Living in Canada, then going back to France and seeing my parents again turned me agoraphobic, so I guess I have a strong reaction to that right now. It takes me so much effort to be able to go out of my apartment even though I know there will be people out there, I don't need someone ruining that by talking to me without a warning and giving me a panic attack.
I'm not some kind a super cold person, but I'm not going to open to everyone. When I like you, I'm going to be friendly, to ask how you are and actually care, to tell you things about me and stuff. But if I don't know you and you bounce on me it's just scary I guess.
I think it's important to act depending on the person's attitude. If I'm avoiding eye contact, if I have headphones on, I'm sending a message that says "please leave me alone, I need to be alone", so if you talk to me you're going against that and I feel that's rude.
On the other hand if I'm looking at you, smiling while entering your store, and you just look away and don't say anything,... well I won't think it's rude, I'll think you want to be alone so I won't talk to you, but I guess my point is that talking to me then and asking who I am, I wouldn't find that rude at all, because I kind of invited it.
Comments
I wanted to separate Canada and the US specifically because I live in Canada and wanted to see how many Canadians are here. I really don't know enough about global video game consuming countries to be able to list all the correct ones, though. Which I stated in the opening post.
Long live our noble King,
God save the King:
Send him victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the King.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
From France and Pretender
Great Britain defend her,
Foes let them fall;
From foreign slavery,
Priests and their knavery,
And Popish Reverie,
God save us all.
Gotta love the ridiculously non-PC 1745 lyrics!
<
Benelux it is, then. I wonder what we did to come first in that acronym, by the way. I guess Nebelux sounded to SF, and Luxbene or Luxnebe are just unpronouncable.
My mother's family lives in Germany and the Netherlands, and my father's family lives in France, Spain and Switzerland. And yet they all come to us for family gatherings.
Im from puerto rico and i just clicked in central america. Please join me as im the only one who voted over there!
Ewwwww no wonder I don't like you, and yes... that is sad...
Just kidding
edit: Don't take me seriously.
I know so many people from Oregon. A lot moved to NY for some reason.
Probably 'cause they didn't like Oregon for some reason... [edited, nicer version]
I don't mind not being the center of attention and so I don't see how I'm being full of myself.
...wait you dont like me?
Jenny: Funny you say that. I know a lot of people round here from New York. Maybe they swapped places. haha
Edit:
Reading my reply, you're probably right! I guess Oregon and NY are two extremes, so if you live in one place for a long time you want to visit the other.
I wasn't referring to you in particular, just the people of Portland in general.
It's funny because everyone says it's all green and eco-friendly but it has just as much litter/garbage flying around in the wind as LA does... Just sayin'. Not tryin to argue with you or anything. [k PARTS of LA prob worse litter wise just sayin tho]
Some of the scenery is pretty epic... But every state has epic scenery in it's own way...
Sorry I'm not trying to be a troll or anything.
Yeah me too. : \ you 'spose to be my doppleganger or something?
East coast has swamps, also forests, grasslands/plains, and ummm, more swamps? lol to be fair I've only been along the southern states. Not counting Oregeon and Washington of course.
You might be on to something there.
Well I see a HUGE problem with that!!
Heh sorry I'm just messing around
I'll just shutup.
lol wat
*offers peace treaty*
So, you're not going to sign my peace treaty huh? fine then...
I honestly lost interest a while ago so I'm just gonna say don't take anything I said personally, you just sounded sarcastic in your reply to my PM, that's all...
Sorry if you thought I had some serious problem with you or something.. : \
and if it seemed like I was demonizing you or something, I was only joking.
for the record I'm just an over-the-top person, so for the most part it's best to just take what I say with a grain of salt.
Here, you need to find a place that lists what moves are playing where and when, find a movie you like, look where it's playing, go for that specific time...
Argh! I don't like planning that much ahead for seeing a movie. The best movie experiences I've had where just walking into a theatre to see something I had never heard of.
Then you have all the free congresses and classes. I used to just go inside universities and sit to listen to the class. Anyone is free to watch even without registering, if you register to university that just means you get grades and stuff.
And the stores were awesome. I loved the Fnac so much. Electronics, games, books, music and movies all in the same store. And not just a few of each, a whole floor for each. Such a wonderful place to be.
And I loved being able to move how I wanted. With the month pass (50 euros a month, or 25 if you're a student, and if you've got a job you need to use transportation to go to, they pay half of your pass, too) you can use the subway, buses, tramways, boats on the Seine and Vélib', which are bikes. Although Vélib' is an extra 10 bucks but yearly. It works with the same pass though.
The pass has a chip, so you just slide it over the sensor, or if you're like me you keep it in your bag and walk in such a way that it's just read as you walk by and lets you in. Really handy.
Well, it doesn't "let you in" for the bikes since, you know, they're outside, but it lets you take one.
Anyways! I loved Paris. I couldn't see anything wrong with it. Then I went to spend a year in Canada and came back.
Now... I still love everything about Paris itself, but... When did it get that many people?!
Wikipedia says:
And that's ten years old. Population has boomed since then (and of course the city can't get bigger. You can just walk to the next town and not realise you're not in Paris anymore. I've done that often actually
Anyway. After living in a place with less people (Canada), going back to Paris was hellish. Things I never cared about where like a nightmare. I started hating people. I really see how people who aren't from Paris all say Paris is a horrible place to live in (I mean French people. I know people from other countries see it as the city of love or something).
In a way, that makes me really sad. Now I don't really feel home in Paris anymore. And I don't feel home at all in Canada either. I don't have a home anymore :S
Is it rude for me to ask what the average Parisian means of interaction is? New Yorkers are very "to the point", like, when I moved to the southern US I was very confused when people in the service industry asked me how my day was. It got a lot easier when I realized that it wasn't just weird service people stepping past my "personal space", but just a social convention that doesn't actually mean anything. The thing is, that sort of thing always rings as so fake. People down here always say that New Yorkers are "rude", but I always saw it as just "more sincere". People don't ask how you are unless they actually care, and there's no false cultural padding being added to everything.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this so I'm going to stop here before I offend people more than I probably already have.
Oh, I hate that too. The first time I arrived at the cash register and the person said "Hi, how are you today?" I was all "Do I know you?"
I think it's really the "today" that made it the weirdest. Like she had seen me before or was expecting to see me again or something. It was just weird. I've only worked in jobs that dealt with customers and you're supposed to say "Hello" and "Goodbye", but even "How are you?" is already drifting into "invading the customer's privacy" business.
As you said, it's not like the person actually cares, so I've always found that extremely hypocritical, and there is no reason I'd want to talk about my day or personal issues with a total stranger.
Waiters here also meddle in your conversations, that's so incredibly rude! They just pop out of nowhere and comment on something you've said. In France they leave you alone unless you call them, I've always found that much more polite.
I went to New York on my honeymoon, and I can tell you, I didn't meet one rude person. Everyone was absolutely awesome, I asked for help in the street and got it, things like that. So I really don't get why anyone would say that New Yorkers are rude.
Going back to the store things, I find that even "hello" and "goodbye" are rude to me if I didn't make eye contact with the person. Kid of "I've got my eye on you, now you make sure you buy something". If I don't look at the people when I enter a store, I like when they let me "breathe", don't talk to me, don't come to me, etc. If I need help I ask for it, if I'm in a social mood I make eye contact and smile. Otherwise, if they talk to me, say "hi" as I enter the store or anything like that, I usually just go straight out again unless I had something very important to get.
I mean, just get out of my face :S I don't understand why they don't see how rude that is.
Now, I'm not saying that I avoid eye contact even at the cash register or something, I mean when you're inside a store and minding your own business. If I buy something, of course I say hi to the person at the register, and take off my headphones and stuff.
Anyway, I find a lot of things about what's rude and what isn't is entirely cultural. I know Americans tend to think of French people as rude and vice-versa, simply because what's polite in one of the to countries tends to be rude in the other.
Of course, you do get rude people everywhere.
But to go back to what I think was your original point, I do think that more populated place have more respect for someone's personal space. My theory is that it's so crowded, personal space is something very important, and when you go talk to someone in a store, you might be disturbing their only few minutes of calm this week. So it's a pretty harsh thing to do.
But in smaller or less populated areas, everyone has personal space and personal time all the time. People are more likely to crave someone to talk to, and then it become a way to make someone feel less lonely. Might be their only social contact of the week, having someone walk up to them and ask how they can help them in a store.
So I think that's what it all boils down to, really.
The thing I know though, the bigger the city, the faster walk the people of there. I'm from a, relative small town, and, when I went to Santiago (Chile's Capital) with my parents, we are going in the car, fast, and always the people from there are going faster. The people walk faster when you are in the street too. But, appart of that, I don't see that much difference.
We have people who said "Welcome to" in certain stores, especially the big ones. But they sound SO bored I ussually smile them back, or said hi in return. That's normally make them feel better.
When I was growing up, I always saw it as far more rude to say something you didn't mean and to have some sort of secret resentment for someone than to just say you don't like them. I oftentimes feel like I'm now living in cardboard cutout world of appearances and pretenses. Now, it's not like these things don't exist in New Yorkers, but they generally seemed to give way in accordance to with flimsy and insubstantial they actually are.
I don't know. I don't need to like everybody. Everybody doesn't need to like me. If I have to try hard to make sure that I can feel approved by everyone, I'm going to go insane.
There was someone in university, whenever I talked to her, she interrupted to say things like "oh, wow!" and it was just weird. Now, the interrupting I don't mind, when you're French it's actually a big part of communication to all talk at the same time. But don't do it to say "wow!" when I only said I was going to drop by the cafeteria to get myself a sandwich.
Seriously, I always felt like she was making fun of me or calling me an idiot. Everything I said was amazing, to hear her. And she did that with everyone. That bugged me so much.
If you don't care about something, you can say "I don't care, you know." It's more polite than letting me talk without even listening. It's more polite than pretending you care and making me go into the trouble of telling you all about it because I think you're interested.
Heck, I even think it's more polite to just walk off while I'm talking than to pretend you're interested in what I'm saying when you're not.
Most people in Paris aren't going to pretend they're interested in what you're saying if they're not. Really, they probably won't talk to you in the first place if they're not interested in what you have to say. And that feels so much better. It's true that here in Canada I never know if I'm wasting my talking on someone who isn't even listening to me.
Plus interrupting each other and talking at the same time is less common, which leads me to keep wanting to say stuff but have to wait until the person is done, at which point I forgot most of what I wanted to say and I ended up not really listening to what they were saying afterwards. Which is just frustrating. I don't see why people are all "oh my got you violated me by interrupting me", it means I care enough about what you're saying to react to it.
I mean, it's not like I don't let people finish any of their sentences, or that I interrupt them to tell them they're doing things wrong before they even tell me how they're doing them.
Actually, I think the idea that French people are rude mostly comes from people who have never been to France, just like the idea that American people are rude mostly comes from people who haven't been to the US.
But then there are language things, too. Like, "demander" means to ask for, not to demand. "Supporter" means to bear, not to support.
Obviously if you want to say "I'm asking you for your opinion here" and say you're "demanding" someone's opinion, or if you want to say "I'll try to be supportive" and end up saying "I'll try to bear with you", you're going to have misunderstandings and be thought of as rude.
Because I don't think people living in rural areas are that likely to travel to the other end of the world, that is, in my opinion, I don't think they would in a proportion that largely outnumbers people from the city.
Although maybe rural people end up telling everyone they know French people are rude while city people just go back home and don't talk much about their trip at all
I live in Oklahoma, which is Midwestern US rather than southern, but I think there's something to be said for simple courtesy, even if it does mean asking a generic question with the expectation of a generic response. In the circumstance of someone who works for tips, it makes sense to assume that being more personable/friendly means bigger tips, but even disregarding such instances, there's nothing wrong with simply being nice.
Life is too serious already anyway.
Also, I don't think people in rural or suburban areas are any less likely to WANT to travel. The idea that New York(and apparently Paris) are considered "A nice place to visit, but a bad place to live" must come from SOMEWHERE. And if you're willing to cross the country to visit a city, I don't think you'd be less willing to cross an ocean, barring any ocean-centric phobias.
By the way, the specific mention of Southern US was because, well, that's my range of experience. I can't say what it's like in the midwest, because...I've never been there!
ever
Anyway, um. Why? To me, if a waiter is efficient, that's what determines a good tip. How quickly are they going to get to me, to everybody else, from me to the rest of his/her job if they're having discussions with me, and the guy one table over, and every other person in the place? Every time, it feels like an intrusion and a lie. "You don't care, why are you asking?"
What is the point in saying "How are you?" when anything more than "Good", "Bad", "OK" or "Fine" is going to be met with resentment?
I dunno, maybe it's just the way I was raised, but it bugs me on multiple levels. It's someone getting into my space, it feels insincere, and it feels like we're wasting each others' time with stuff that obviously doesn't actually matter.
Not, but they might have jobs that pay less, meaning they can't afford that kind of traveling, and even if they earn the same or save the same (since these places are also cheaper to live in usually) there are less people living in rural areas than urban areas, so it would be weird if more of them are traveling.
Well, if someone asks me "how are you" when they don't even know me it means that:
a) they actually want to know. In which case it's really on the same level (to me) as asking "Hi, did you have sex today?". It's personal and none of their business how I'm doing.
b) they don't actually want to know. They're expecting me to just say "fine", and not explain why I'm fine, and of course to lie if I'm not fine. They're putting me in a position where if I'm not fine and wants to talk about it, I need to shut up anyway or I'll be the rude one for making things awkward. They're putting me in a situation that if I'm having the worst day of my life, I'm expected to pretend I'm fine anyway. That's very, very, very rude in my book.
And really, it's just hypocritical. If you don't care if I'm fine or not, don't ask. You might think it's basic respect, I think it's basic disrespect. You meet a stranger and right off the bat you tell him "I'm gonna pretend I care about you because it's my job, but please don't actually answer my question sincerely because I don't give a sh*t."
I'm not tipping someone who can't let me eat in peace. If I wanted to talk to people I would have brought them with me, and if I did bring them with me I don't want strangers to butt in.
Really, it's all cultural. You see it as being nice (and therefore a good idea for those who want tips), I see it as being rude (and therefore a bad idea for those who want tips).
But I think it's false to say that "how are you doing" is an entirely empty question. In my personal experience, I find that more often than not they are *genuinely interested* in your well being. Had a rough day? Anything I can do to ease the burden? Get you a sweet tea? It's a very community based society. It baffles me when I live or visit someplace where people won't even look in your direction, let alone smile and hold the door for you like a polite human being.
As for the duplicity that Dashing mentioned: yes, I think it's a problem in a society where you are expected to be polite to each other. But by the same token, I don't feel like it's any less of an issue in the other societies I've lived in. It's pretty universal that sometimes people are jerks.
As for living in New York or an equally crowded place, I wouldn't want to do it. It's not for a lack of trying though. I dated a girl in NYC for the better part of a year and couldn't even consider moving there. You are constantly surrounded by people, so you have no privacy. But by the same token, everyone ignores you so it's simultaneously one of the loneliest and most isolating places I've been. I'd rather have my own space, go out and see people when I want to, and then (because I WANT to be interacting with people) be friendly and carry on a conversation with complete strangers.
That is, if the person is genuinely asking, then that's more okay. I'm a shy person (yeah, yeah) so it's easy for me to feel that people are being intrusive and indiscreet intrusive, but I can get past that if I see they actually care.
What I don't like at all are the people who say "how are you?" when they obviously don't care at all. I hate that.
It also depends on my level of stress. If I'm stressed out I really don't want anyone talking to me, because then I have to act in a socially accepted manner, which is stressful. If they leave me alone I can sort my problems and be ready to be all social again. I just need to have my own space, I guess.
Living in Canada, then going back to France and seeing my parents again turned me agoraphobic, so I guess I have a strong reaction to that right now. It takes me so much effort to be able to go out of my apartment even though I know there will be people out there, I don't need someone ruining that by talking to me without a warning and giving me a panic attack.
I'm not some kind a super cold person, but I'm not going to open to everyone. When I like you, I'm going to be friendly, to ask how you are and actually care, to tell you things about me and stuff. But if I don't know you and you bounce on me it's just scary I guess.
I think it's important to act depending on the person's attitude. If I'm avoiding eye contact, if I have headphones on, I'm sending a message that says "please leave me alone, I need to be alone", so if you talk to me you're going against that and I feel that's rude.
On the other hand if I'm looking at you, smiling while entering your store, and you just look away and don't say anything,... well I won't think it's rude, I'll think you want to be alone so I won't talk to you, but I guess my point is that talking to me then and asking who I am, I wouldn't find that rude at all, because I kind of invited it.