Difficulty of episode 4

edited March 2007 in Sam & Max
I finally got around to playing episode 4 the other day and it was a lot of fun but still felt a little short. What I really want to talk about is the difficulty. I still found this game way too easy. I was wondering what everyone else thought about it. I saw another thread that said they thought the last puzzle was difficult at all. I think the difficulty has been improving but we need more rope.
(I will explain)

The game feels claustrophobic. I expect that I will need something from Bosco and Sybil in every episode so that kills 2 puzzles. If I see something new I almost always will use it. (Hugh Bliss)
I don't have enough places to visit since we never return to any of the locations in previous episodes. The inventory never gets large enough either. This makes the puzzles very easy to figure out. Give players more rope so they can hang themselves.

Comments

  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited March 2007
    So, you know you've made a good adventure game when players have to stop playing it and do something else instead?
  • edited March 2007
    What the heck are you on about? the fourth game was longest one out of the lot and easily the hardest.
  • edited March 2007
    I think an adventure game is good when players have to think through how they will solve a problem. The best adventure game I've ever played was Monkey Island II. There were plenty of locations and items for me to think about when I was trying to figure out how to solve a problem.
  • edited March 2007
    I think 4 felt longer because of that long song (good song)
    I don't think it was much longer then the other episodes. It is a step in the right direction for difficulty but still not difficult enough in my opinion
  • edited March 2007
    Actually, I didn't find the puzzle easy this time around compared to the last three episodes. There was a clear direction as to what the objectives were, but in this episode, figuring out how to do them was the tricky part.

    For example, I didn't know that I would need
    Sybil's help
    to get
    into the war room
    . I thought it was just a matter of getting ride of the immediate road block I was facing.

    Then there was the various
    phone
    puzzles that I didn't figure out until I
    got back to the office
    .

    In the episodes before it, I kind of knew how to solve the puzzles before I even got to the puzzles because of how obvious the solution was (particularly with Episode 2 in making Max cry during the audition and what to do with Whizzer on Embarrasing Idol).
  • edited March 2007
    I think the key was that I knew I probably had to use each area once. I am not complaining but I am trying to give feedback to help make things even better.
  • edited March 2007
    Alucard wrote: »
    I don't have enough places to visit since we never return to any of the locations in previous episodes.

    I belive that you are the first one I heard about, that think that they should reuse MORE scenes... :p
  • edited March 2007
    Think of finding all the Easter Eggs and jokes to extend your playtime--did you find out the ages of the Soda Poppers?
  • edited March 2007
    Personally I found this the hardest episode by far, and also the best-judged. I needed a gentle nudge in the right direction twice:
    finding the last sign I needed for abe (it was the 'give me all you've got one')
    and
    Figuring out exactly what to do to get abe to ask sybil out

    I think 2 minor hints needed in a short adventure episode is pitching the difficulty just about right. Especially since they weren't the only puzzles that gave me pause for thought - just the only ones I gave into hinting for.
  • edited March 2007
    I had to think my way through episode 4..which I didn't for 2 and 3.. I was quite happy with the difficulty.. if the next episode is a little bit harder it will be a nice difficulty curve for everyone
  • edited March 2007
    Just as long as they keep in the hints that don't initially sound like hints like the following:
    I'm the president, Sam! What date do you want it to be?
    I don't care if you have to use a prop! Just give me rabid!
    Unless you take out Myra, or that bear, or both....
    "We should probably go to where we are least wanted."
    "You mean that back room?"
    "Actually, I was thinking of the kitchen, but your idea works."
    Cheat better!
    (And pretty much anything shown in the intro is your biggest hint that doesn't come off as a hint in the games so far)
  • edited March 2007
    (offtopic)
    Giving people more rope to hang themselves sounds like a bad idea. They could get arrested and/or sued for doing such. Altho, if you use too much rope.. you'll ultimately fail at hanging yourself, since you'll hit the floor/ground. In which case everyone gets a good laugh. :)
    (/offtopic)
  • edited March 2007
    inso wrote: »
    finding the last sign I needed for abe (it was the 'give me all you've got one')
    and
    Figuring out exactly what to do to get abe to ask sybil out
    About the sign puzzle: after the first episode, that area is always the one of the first areas that I check in every episode. I'm just lucky that it actually payed of in this episode. :rolleyes:

    But, yeah, the puzzles in this episode were a lot more involving than those in previous episodes - they usually weren't just a simple case of 'use item x on person y', they often required us to use a combination of item-placement, dialogue options and interacting with other objects in the environment to solve them.
  • edited March 2007
    I think if future episodes are more difficult then episode 4, then the major reviewers will start whining about adventure gaming in general. People like action now adays, for better or for worse.

    I think the difficulty in #4 was balanced well enough. Just keep it about this long, keep it fresh, and keep the writing funny. May I also suggest getting more higher-end S&M merchandise like the stuffed animals? That's a good way to increase revenue while not increasing the price of the game itself.
  • edited March 2007
    About the sign puzzle: after the first episode, that area is always the one of the first areas that I check in every episode. I'm just lucky that it actually payed of in this episode. :rolleyes:

    It was the first place I checked too... but just to read them... and it took me forever to figure out to go back and grab what I needed.

    I thought this episode felt longer because
    new twists (like Max becoming prez) kept happening and thus led to new puzzles and dialog choices.
  • edited March 2007
    Derwin wrote: »
    I thought this episode felt longer because
    new twists (like Max becoming prez) kept happening and thus led to new puzzles and dialog choices.

    I agree. But what I liked about the writing in Ep. 4 is that it actually felt like how they recently described Sam & Max to Joystiq. "A lot of things happen in a hurry, and then they end."
  • edited March 2007
    To be honest though Alucard, judging by the puzzle threads you post on the general board, you seem to enjoy a lot harder puzzles than others would.
  • MelMel
    edited March 2007
    Alucard wrote: »
    I finally got around to playing episode 4 the other day and it was a lot of fun but still felt a little short.

    But these aren't supposed to be long games... You said yourself, you had fun. That is the ultimate reason why I play adventure games and it tends to be the final arbiter in whether I deem a game a success or not.
  • edited March 2007
    For $8.95, less if you the whole season, I found Episode 4 to be the right length, perhaps even generously long considering how some other companies would make them.
  • edited March 2007
    I saw some new posters over ther when I was walking to sybils so I went and had a look..so I didn't have any problems in that puzzle.. I like to check everything out :)
  • MelMel
    edited March 2007
    Hero1 wrote: »
    I saw some new posters over ther when I was walking to sybils so I went and had a look..so I didn't have any problems in that puzzle.. I like to check everything out :)

    I did the same thing. In fact, I've done that with every episode. But I personally go and check them out because I want to see what funny posters they have up, not because I think there's a puzzle. I'm not saying that's why you went and looked necessarily. For me, they've made the environments places that I want to have fun exploring and if I happen to pick up something that I may use later, that's cool too. I know when I picked up that poster, I had no clue what I would use it for until much later.

    There's been a lot of begging for more inventory but I think at times you can have too much. If I'm stuck in a game, I end up trying everything with everything just to get myself going again. It pulls me out of the experience. Kheops' games follow different rules with that, in that inventory is the star, but it can even happen there with me.
  • edited March 2007
    Yeah I was just going over there to see what the new posters were and have a laugh..didn't think it would have anything to do with a puzzle at the time
  • edited March 2007
    Yeah, it's the same with me... I always check out the posters to see if there's anything interesting on them. I must say though, when I saw that loose poster, I figured it was bound to be of use. Nothing in an adventure game is ever out of place for no reason.
  • edited March 2007
    I liked the difficulty of the last episode a lot - the fact that I dont carry every single item in the game with me is no problem, the team at Telltale manages to make interesting puzzles anyway.
    This latest episode more than lives up to the old Lucas arts adventures in my opinion.
  • edited March 2007
    This episode really was a bit harder than the previous one's, had to really put my mind into few of the puzzles. Damn great game it is! ;) I am really glad that S&M has proven to be a strong IP that sells. We really have too little of these oldschool adventure games nowdays.
  • edited March 2007
    Jake wrote: »
    So, you know you've made a good adventure game when players have to stop playing it and do something else instead?

    BINGO! Players *should* get stuck in adventure games, the puzzles are supposed to be the challenge in these games and the games really do lose much of their appeal if you hardly have to use your brain at all.
    You should get stuck on puzzles and have to think hard for some time before you finally get it.. the feeling you get when you finally solve a puzzle you've been stuck on for hours if not days is really great!

    I think you're a good company but your philosophy when it comes to difficulty levels (make them dead easy so people never get stuck) is pretty bad (in my opinion).
  • edited March 2007
    Laffer wrote: »
    (make them dead easy so people never get stuck)

    Some people get stuck.
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