Time Paradoxes
Hey guys,
Just wondering if even without the release of OUTATIME, how would you wrap up the series of the games, taking into consideration the first three movies and not having an issue with paradoxes in those as well?
Its racking my brain something shocking trying to think of an ending. The only way I can see it is with the old doc coming back.
Just wondering if even without the release of OUTATIME, how would you wrap up the series of the games, taking into consideration the first three movies and not having an issue with paradoxes in those as well?
Its racking my brain something shocking trying to think of an ending. The only way I can see it is with the old doc coming back.
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The cinematic chase through time will almost definitely involve a 2nd delorean. I'm rooting for it to be old doc vs. FCB (accomplished either by burrowing old doc from a time period he travelled to or having him duplicated in 2025)
you're right but the premise does indicate the future is shown. Maybe it'll be like a christmas carol where we see a future of what happens if the timeline is not fixed.
Then again in 1985 when marty returned and had a richer lifestyle he was still his old self with humble begginnings. If that makes sense. He was still the marty from the start of the movie with a totaled car he couldnt take jennifer to the lake in and an alcoholic mother.
Heres a question and if anyone could answer it, it would be much appreciated?
What about the second marty in 1985 at Lone Pine Mall that went back in time as the original marty watched. Whats his story? Because when the first marty went back it was Twin Pines mall and was a different timeline.
Did he only know success and wealth because the first marty which went back in time had changed the course of history?
Im a bit of moron with this stuff, so yeah - thanks for the reply to my previous question guys
My theory is that, ultimately, TP Marty fuses with LP Marty - and he ends up remembering both timelines. I always figured that both Martys, more or less, had the same personality.
it is established that time travellers only remember events they have experienced and do not remember newer versions of the timeline which they created; marty doesnt remember george becoming an author or his father dying. Doc doesn't remember getting committed or finding out about his older self's tombstomb and sending marty back to save him.
These movies and games are shown from the first time travel's perspective. So we dont really know what Lone pine marty remembers. Likewise in part II when they return to 1985, we dont know which timeline the 'other marty' is from whether it's the old timeline, good timeline, or biffhoric one.
I remember hearing/reading something about quantum physics about how traveling into the past to change history is impossible because if you did the object you were seeking to remove would never have existed, thus your present day self would never have had a reason to go back and change in the first place, thus time cannot be changed.
The best movie to show this (in sci fi) is 12 Monkeys, it has a perfect paradox time travel story.
If you think about it Marty is really lucky that the second Marty's personality hasn't changed enough (even though Dave and Linda's has changed completely) so that he does exactly what the original Marty does originally.
He might have a really bad office job that has a really low income so he can't afford his own place.
For example, Marty in the first movie after changing history. He goes back to his house, finds out that his life is better. There is no other Marty in this timeline; just the Marty who time travelled. Yet, his family still knows him and such because he changed history.
But, in the second movie, in 'Hell Valley', there is apparently a Marty native to that timeline in some other country or something, according to Biff. He says something like "I thought I sent you to school in ---". In that instance, there are two versions of Marty, which contradicts the first movie's time travel rules. In addition, in the second movie Old Biff returned to the original 2015 before fading out of existence, when he should have gone to the 2015 of 'Hell Valley'. Doc and Marty, for all intents and purposes, should have been stranded in that 2015 as a result of the DeLorean being in a parallel timeline.
TL;DR version: Enjoy it as it is, don't try to reconcile and iron out the paradoxes because I can tell you right now, it won't work according to a universal time travel truth, whatever that truth may be.
You are basically right, but...
Of course they know him... he has been born in the altered timeline as well. And we see him leave for an unknown time at the end of the first movie. So the Marty we know just replaces him.
The first movie never states that the same person can't exist twice in one time. In fact it clearly shows (at the end, two Martys co-existing) that it IS indeed possible.
Ok, here's where it gets a little fishy, but..
Actually there was another Marty. He was with Doc at the mall when they were being shot at by Libyans and then he went back in time.
Would lone-pine mall marty fade or not?
He has a different picture of his family and got told a different story of how his parents met.
In other words, lone pine mall marty"s timeline doesnt involve his parents meeting because of george getting hit by loraine's father's car.
It is a loop because of the fact that you essentially see lone pine mall marty doing the same stuff twin pine mall marty did.
My theory about LP Marty is that he is embarking on his own adventure, that we simply know nothing of. We don't even know if Doc entered the same date into the time circuits. Even IF he is arriving at the same date in 1955 (and wouldn't that be catastrophic, because he'd arrive in the same time AND place as "our" Marty did?) he'll face a different scenario, as has been mentioned. He might not even meet his parents and not create a problem to begin with.. he may miss his appointment with the lightning strike... the Delorean might not come back to life at the right instant... anything's possible.
Derp on my end, that makes sense.
See, the thing I don't really understand about this is that, as you say, two Martys can co-exist in one timeline. But in the second movie (which we will get to) Old Biff ceases to exist after returning to the future despite this theory that he could have co-existed with Alternate Old Biff according to the rules from BTTF 1?
I thought Biff was 'dying' because he changed history (he was fading away as he died), which is where my problem is. Biff became a time traveller when he used the DeLorean to go back in time, so why is he affected by the change in history when everyone else who time travels is immune to the changes?
I dunno. I just usually see time travel working in a few ways. One, every time you 'change history' you create an alternate universe where history happened according to what you did. In that sense, Hell Valley would be in an alternate timeline to the original 1985. Since Marty and Doc came from 1985a to 2015a, then Biff changed events in 1955 to create 1985b, I would think that Marty and Doc would be in 2015a while the DeLorean would take Biff to 2015b. In that sense Marty and Doc should be stranded.
Instead, Biff creates a tangent leading to 1985b, but somehow goes into the future where he winds up in 2015a. They should be on separate tracks, but like how Doc explained it on the blackboard.
Edit: Tried to do an ascii diagram. I failed
/Johnnyraincloud.
Because he is returning to a time in which he is dead (not stated in the movie, but then again the whole "old Biff dying" thing is not in the movie as well), he is fading from existence the moment he re-enters the normal timestream.
No, because the timeline transfers around them, basically shifting them from 2015a to 2015b, because of the changes in 1955. It's what happens to Marty after Doc gets sent to 1885. The actions of Doc in 1885 change the timeline around Marty. Otherwise there would be no Delorean in the Delgado mine and no letter from Doc.
But hey... I'm not trying to say that it all makes perfect sense.
Aye. Next up; Jennifer in First Citizen Brown; if she was a time traveller, why has her personal history changed now
I, to, play for fun. Incidently, I am loving these games.
That's an easy one for a change. She wasn't travelling with Marty and Doc when the changes in 1931 created the FCB timeline. Simple as that.
Same here.
But Marty and Doc weren't travelling with Old Biff when he went back and created Hell Valley, and they (theoretically) shifted to the alternate 2015, as was mentioned several posts ago! XP
Right, they were out of their own time though and thus immune to the changes, at least until the ripple effect would have caught up to them, however long that would have taken..
Jennifer was where she belonged so she changed along with the timestream.
Since I am a man with questionable intellect and I am too lazy to read up on Wikipedia, I will go with the next best information source: hearsay. I heard once that if you could take off into space, and you were going fast enough, you could come back and land on Earth 20 mins/1 hour/1 day/whatever time frame you want before you took off. Now if physicists ever devised a way to test this theory, let's say they wanted to test for 20 mins, and they chose me to be the lucky candidate (if for no other reason, they probably think that if something goes wrong, freeway travel would be safer) I would wait for 20 mins before launch to see if I showed up and said, "It's all good, bro, it was a successful trip and nothing bad happened." If my other self never shows up, I would tell the physicists, "Go <expletive deleted> yourselves, I'm not going up in that thing! I never came back! That probably means that I died out there in space!", and I wouldn't go through with it. For the past couple of days, I've tried to think myself an answer for the following question: Did my other self never show up because something bad did indeed happen in space and I never made it back, or did I never show up because I didn't go through with it? Then my brain starts to hurt and I go watch more TV. Your thoughts?
Man, the BTTF Universe must have one hell of a record keeper
Frankly? I doubt it.
There's no conclusive answer to that, as long as we don't know how time travel works in our universe. If it works the way it does in BttF then you would NOT show up before the trip, even if you take off as planned. Instead you would then arrive in an alternate timeline, telling your alternate you "all's well" and see him take off. (compare ending of first movie). Or YOU would be the alternate self already, but that would mean YOUR trip could still go wrong, even if your previous-timeline-self survived to talk to you.
If it works the other way (i.e. no changes to the timeline are possible) then you WOULD show up IF the trip was successful and then you WOULD HAVE TO take off, no way around it, because the result of your flight (you arriving 20 minutes before) has already happened.
Long story short: Even if you don't show up to reassure you, it's not really helping you draw any conclusions.
My head hurts...
Anyway, as long as you pay attention on the freeway... everything will be fine!