Time travel Puzzle
Ok, so what do you think would happen if Marty and Doc had stayed in the alternate reality. Would they have merged with the other versions of themselves or would there have just been two Martys and Docs forever? What do you think?
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The series never gets into that so it's really hard to tell. So here's my two cents: if the new timeline's really close to the original one (like, only some minor changes in the Traveler's life) they would merge and the traveler would receive those new memories. But if it's wildly different (like Part 2 or FCB's Hill Valley) they would stay separated foever.
Sorry it's so long
Thanks
I don't see how it makes sense to have 2 of the same character in the same timeline.
If you include the game, it is six months later and marty seems to still remember his old timeline as well as the Biffhoric one so doesn't seem that memories change.
I think that was a good idea- I think if there was one Marty, that Marty would only have memories of the new 1986. I think that is what should have happened to follow basic time travel rules... But it didn't so I think that for the Back to the Future game, we assume there were two Martys. Just my opinion.
But of course, Telltale left it open to us.
But those examples were both in the past and I'm talking about the present time that they come from. Admittedly you could argue that it doesn't matter but their not alternate version of themselves their past version of themselves so it wouldn't work anyway.
Also in the movies they never really stayed in one time for any 'merging' to take place. Those examples they were only with their other selves for a couple hours (a day at the most) and in the first movie it took a week for Marty to begin to fade out.
I'm not saying your wrong (thats why I put this thread up here) but I just think those are bad examples.
As a matter of fact, yes, I would indeed argue that it doesn't matter.
I see no reason why someone can't exist multiple times at the same time, as long as he doesn't interfere with his other selves too much. Let's assume that at the end of part 1, the other Marty would NOT have left in the time machine. THEN it would be debatable, whether "our" Marty should fade out (his trip never having started) or should simply coexist, because he's from an alternate timeline and in that timeline, the trip still happened. I'm in favor of the latter theory.
Wait, this isn't a good example either... dang.
Marty changed the timeline in the first movie when he made his dad confidant and successful and there was no other Marty then.
Second of all, if you met another version of yourself in the past or future you would not merge, as you are in completly different places in your time stream. That makes no sense.
It doesn't make any sense that there wouldn't be an alternate version of yourself in an alternate timeline. What happens to the original you from that timeline? They wouldn't just disappear because you turned in your time machine. That doesn't make any sense.
The reason the other marty wasn't there that time is because he went back in time to 1955. We saw it happen.
Yes it does, and BTTF has stated it several times that there is no alternate versions of yourself. Never, ever have been.
Otherwise like I said, there would be an alternate Marty at the end of the first movie. And every movie for that matter, because every time a minor alteration is made, the timeline changes slightly.
No, he came back. Marty McFly always comes back 10 minutes before he goes back in time. Its just a simple matter of following the timeline.
Sorry, but that's just wrong... what you are saying is implying a loop, i.e. the scene we see at the end of the first movie is actually the very same scene as at the beginning. That is not the case, though. If it was, it would have to be perfectly identical which it cleary isn't (the Twin Pines/Lone Pine Mall sign is a dead giveaway).
Travelling to 1955 the first time has created an alternate timeline, which is different from the one shown at the beginning of the movie, including an alternate Marty McFly. And of course THAT Marty and the Marty from the original timeline could exist at the same time.
There's a lot of things debatable and illogical in the BttF movies, but not about the fundamental way time travelling works in the trilogy. THAT is very clear and obvious.
The only reason there were two Marty's is becuase Marty was 10 minutes behind in his own timeline. There are NEVER EVER any alternate versions of the characters in alternate timelines. It makes no sense for there to be so. They are alternate timelines, not seperate parallel timelines.
Following your logic, there should also be an alternate Marty in 1985 at the end of part 3, since Doc and Marty created an alternate 1985 where Clayton Revine is called Eastwood Revine.
Can I ask what happened to the Marty that was in alternate reality in BTTF 2? He was supposed to be in switzerland right? But he cant have just disappeared because the other arrived in the time machine, it doesnt make sense. That what your saying would have happened.
Here's my unconfirmed theory on this:
in the alternate timeline, the original time travel to 1955 still happens as we eventually see. So Doc knows part of his destiny is to send Marty McFly back in time in 1985. He knows george and lorraine and likely follows their lives as well as Marty's (especially when Goerge dies). He may or may not figure out that this is a different timeline from the one Marty came from. But regardless he makes sure on October 26th he sends marty back in time. Yes Doc spends time in an institution in this timeline but it's likely that given the fact that he has already seen the delorean and flux capacitor, it does not take him as long to build it.
Anyhow as for what you 2 are arguing, there is evidence AGAINST the theory of time line changes creating alternate versions of yourself. The timeline at the end of part III is quite a bit different than the original one marty is from and slightly different from the one doc is from (the second version of the timeline which happens after the events of part I. And remember doc's timeline has changed as well since he helps marty time travel a second time in 1955) so if the timeline changed DID create an alternate version, Marty would return from 1885 and find another version of himself there AND a version of doc still there.
I agree that there should logically be different versions of Marty at every timeline. The reason being that in alternate timelines Marty might not be a time traveler and would still be in 1985. For example, the Citizen Brown Hill Valley probably should have had two Marty's since the Marty from that timeline would likely have never have time traveled. But I think the series implies that there is only one Marty, the one we see, since the Marty from the Citizen Brown timeline never shows up.
On a side note having multiple Marty's would add an interesting twist. It could be like Sliders where Marty would be trying to go back to his regular timeline.
That doesn't make sense. If that's the case, why would the Marty from the Citizen Brown timeline disappear? If original 1985 timeline was destroyed, then the Marty from that era would be the one gone since Doc would not have created the time machine.
It has always been said over and over again that the person who changes the timeline has thier original memories and personality.
Also, timelines take awhile to take effect. Its the same reason Marty didn't automatically dissapear when he intially prevented his parents from getting together. Also the same reason the Delorian still works even though First Citizen Brown never invented it.
Well there's the unconfirmed theory that once the delorean enters the FCB timeline, the hover conversion and time circuits short out since it no longer has either in this timeline. That may be why it takes doc six months to repair the time circuits.
Marty doesn't instantly disappear because it had not been confirmed that he wouldn't be born. Presumably if doc was able to get him back to the future instantly, it would be similar to what happens with Doc at the end of episode 2 or Biff when he returns in part II; he'd make it back and disappear immediately.
Marty takes a week to disappear because it's not until November 12th when the critical junction point for George and Lorraine to fall in love happens.
Photographs and newspapers show the most likely event going forward but can be changed; dave and linda start fading because at the time, the most likely scenario is they are not born.
Or consider the 1885 events; when Marty goes back in time, there is still the picture of Docs tombstomb despite him knowing his fate; it doesn't seem to be until September 4th/5th 1885 after the point that doc is initially shot when his name fades from the tombstomb. For a brief time, it is 'Clint eastwood' but we know this doesn't happen; once the tombstomb physically breaks, it disappears from the photo.
That doesn't answer the question as to why the Marty from the Citizen Brown era would just disappear.
And becuase of Back to the Future time travel rules, whoever changes the past keeps thier personality and memories. Therefore new Marty and old Marty are the same person. Geek Marty doesn't dissapear so much as Old Marty's memories are written over his own.
Granted the concept of the other Marty "dissapearing" is an abstract idea since becuase of the rules set down by the films, it is impossible to see this from an outsider's point of view.
Yes, there is only one timeline. Time travellers from other timelines are somewhat immune, though. That's why Marty still exists, even though his timeline has changed a lot. Only when his birth would be prevented would he fade out.
And I still highly doubt the present Marty would disappear when Marty Nr. 1 enters his present. What would that be like? There he is, sitting with his friends in boarding school, playing poker... and all of a sudden - pop - he's gone? Or does the arrival of his other self retroactively change the past so that he never existed? Both cases are incredibly unlikely and illogical if you ask me. (Oh, Shadow just kinda said that himself.. I think i missed the second page of the thread..
But still there's the ending of part 1. We see two Martys. The one from this (altered) timeline and the one from the original timeline and they both exist. Why would it be any different in 1985A or in the FCB timeline?
But it wasn't his own past, it was different from how he experienced it, albeit only slightly. And you said yourself, that it was INTENDED to be a loop in part one. Yet the other two movies establish the concept of alternate timelines, partly I guess because the loop-theory just doesn't fit. There's only two concepts of time travel: a) you can not change the past... whatever you do, it has already happened (that's obviously not how BttF works) and b) you can change the past, but you create an alternate timeline in the process.
And the time loop theory is true to an extent, but not as completly as in Terminator. Basically if a certain set of circumstances led you to being in a specific place, those events were locked. Which is why Marty saw himself go back in time. In order for him to have been 10 minutes in his own past, he had to travel back in time or else there would be a paradox. The same way in Part 2 Marty had to prevent Biff's gang from making his past self miss the lightning bolt.
The rules of back to the future are kind of a mix of theories and don't always perfectly fit. But one thing is certain, there is no alternate version of you if you change around the timeline.
It would have been interesting if marty in part II entered the gym slightly early to see whether or not his other self from part I still goes through the fading process. It appears he does as he's waving his hand in the same manner (marvelling it is back).
some theories of time travel indicate the timeline expects time travel (ie the time travelers wife), some don't. The terminator movies are kind of a hybrid of the 2. Obviously the first movie implies the timeline expects time travel for John Connor to be born but by the 3rd and 4th films we do see changes to the timeline (judgement day gets posponed).