King's Challenge?

I can't figure this one out at all; I'm starting to feel the same way I did with The Diabolical Box back in Professor Layton. Any help?

Comments

  • edited June 2011
    I didn't even see that puzzle on my first runthrough or in the filing cabinet after. Now I wonder how many puzzles I missed.
  • edited June 2011
    Suraht wrote: »
    I didn't even see that puzzle on my first runthrough or in the filing cabinet after. Now I wonder how many puzzles I missed.

    King's Challenge isn't in the filing cabinet, you unlock it when you finish every other puzzle (I'm not sure if getting Puzzle Agent ranking matters, but I did).
  • edited June 2011
    King's Challenge isn't in the filing cabinet, you unlock it when you finish every other puzzle (I'm not sure if getting Puzzle Agent ranking matters, but I did).

    I had to do the robot puzzles for it to show up.

    I tried this one until the game started glitching out and not letting me spin the wheels. I'm going to have to tackle this one again after I get some sleep...the only bit I've been able to figure out is how to juggle a number in the middle while keeping the rest of the numbers in order. It hasn't proven all that useful yet.
  • edited July 2011
    Hm, did the two robot puzzles, but nothing else showed up after. Odd.
  • edited July 2011
    Huh, me neither. What gives?

    Surath, how many puzzles have you solved? 33 (excluding the King's Challenge), or more?

    I had missed one puzzle during my playthrough. Maybe that has something to do with it?
  • edited July 2011
    Soultaker wrote: »
    Huh, me neither. What gives?

    Surath, how many puzzles have you solved? 33 (excluding the King's Challenge), or more?

    I had missed one puzzle during my playthrough. Maybe that has something to do with it?

    With the robot puzzles solved, that brought it up to 33 solved. If you're at Puzzle Agent rank, then maybe you can't miss any during the playthrough. If not, I have a feeling that you have to get PA rank before you get the final puzzle.
  • edited July 2011
    I know I'm at the Puzzle Agent rank and have 33 puzzles solved as well. Didn't miss any during playthrough (though I did fail the lunar race puzzle the first time, completed it when I clicked the poster) Does it appear in the filing cabinet when all the other puzzles are done or what?
  • edited July 2011
    Maybe failing the lunar race is the problem? I failed that one too. (I have a broken mouse which releases the mouse button randomly, which makes dragging lines in real-time very difficult. :P)

    edit:
    I replayed the game with a perfect score and now I do have the King's Challenge! If anyone wants a savegame, let me know.
  • HoboStewHoboStew Telltale Alumni
    edited July 2011
    Just so you know, only one person at Telltale has successfully solved the King's Challenge, and it took him around 3 hours to do it. It is not for the faint of heart!
  • edited July 2011
    I did it, and it only took half an hour of trial-and-error. :p I'll look into a more fundamental approach to the problem tomorrow... that should keep me busy for a while longer.

    Now this was what I call a puzzle -- why didn't you put a dozen of these in the game?

    attachment.php?attachmentid=2659&stc=1&d=1309558573

    Giddy up!
  • edited July 2011
    Soultaker wrote: »
    I did it, and it only took half an hour of trial-and-error. :p I'll look into a more fundamental approach to the problem tomorrow... that should keep me busy for a while longer.

    Now this was what I call a puzzle -- why didn't you put a dozen of these in the game?

    No kidding...once I took a serious attempt, it took me about a half hour to get through this one. I nearly ragequit when I had the 1s, 4s, 5s, and 6s in place, but the 2 and 3 were reversed.

    Why weren't there more of those puzzles in this game as non-essential-to-solve? That was satisfying to defeat.
  • edited July 2011
    I solved King's Challenge in no more than ten minutes. In less than five minutes i have the left circle correctly ordered, but I had the 4 and the 5 on the right circle reversed. It took me a little more to put them correctly. I have no idea how I did it, though.
  • edited July 2011
    Soultaker wrote: »
    Maybe failing the lunar race is the problem? I failed that one too. (I have a broken mouse which releases the mouse button randomly, which makes dragging lines in real-time very difficult. :P)

    edit:
    I replayed the game with a perfect score and now I do have the King's Challenge! If anyone wants a savegame, let me know.

    I'd like the savegame please. Failed few puzzles due to vague instructions and didn't get King's Challenge available.
  • edited July 2011
    Here you go.

    (Save games are stored in %USERPROFILE%\My Documents\Telltale Games\Puzzle Agent 2. If you already saved something in the second slot, back up your existing save2.save file first!)
  • edited July 2011
    Thanks :)
  • edited July 2011
    Soultaker wrote: »
    (Save games are stored in %USERPROFILE%\My Documents\Telltale Games\Puzzle Agent 2. ...)

    Dang it! Is it so hard for developers to get it right? Don't throw junk in my documents, that's my documents, not your private dumping zone. Behave and use the roaming application data like all proper programs!

    I mean, if it gets an entry in the games start menu folder, then how can you screw up the save storage location?
  • edited July 2011
    henke37 wrote: »
    Dang it! Is it so hard for developers to get it right? Don't throw junk in my documents, that's my documents, not your private dumping zone. Behave and use the roaming application data like all proper programs!

    I mean, if it gets an entry in the games start menu folder, then how can you screw up the save storage location?

    Because Windows 7 uses that as default location to store save games, etc.

    Yes it is called "My Documents" but that does not mean some private area. It is for games and programs to store data.
  • edited July 2011
    It is not. That would be the three different application data locations. My documents belongs to the user.

    As for windows 7 defaulting to storing games there, that's bs. The only defaulting to my documents that windows does is for the common file dialogs. And there certainly is no dialog used here.
  • edited July 2011
    henke37 wrote: »
    Behave and use the roaming application data like all proper programs!
    I think there is something to be said for keeping files that the user is supposed to mess around with (saved games, custom maps, screenshots, skins -- whatever) in the My Documents folder, because the Application Data folder is hidden by default and thus not easily accessible from Explorer.

    The alternative would probably be to build a proper import/export feature into the game, but that's a pretty complicated solution to the problem.
  • edited July 2011
    On my second play-through I got perfect 10's on all 33 puzzles, and unlocked the King's Challenge. After about 1 hour of trial-and-error, and then another 30 minutes of attempted brain work, I finally came up with a fool-proof solution.

    Warning - if you want to figure out King's Challenge for yourself and have the immense satisfaction that comes along with that, do not read the spoiler text. The spoiler text is only for people who want a quick and easy solution or who want to be able to repeat it every time.
    This solution works every time for me. Let me know if it works the same for you or not: R,L,R,R,L,L,R,L,L,L,R,R,R,L,L,L,L,L, Submit.

    R = turn the right circle once
    L = turn the left circle once

    I don't know if it matters or not but my starting circles look like this:

    - 1 - 5 -
    4 - 1 - 5
    4 - 2 - 6
    - 3 - 6 -

    Congrats to Telltale on a second great Puzzle Agent game. I loved it.

    Take care everyone!
  • edited July 2011
    Impressive. That seems to be the best possible solution. I think the starting configuration is fixed, so everyone has the same puzzle.

    Did you figure out a general strategy? I tried to think about things like sequences of moves that swap only two numbers, and although they do exist, they aren't very simple.

    To experiment I hacked together my own implementation of the game, which others might find useful too:
    http://hell.student.utwente.nl/kingschallenge/

    The main feature is that it allows you to start from a random position, which offers a bit more variation. I still have a lot of difficulty solving these positions!

    (People that haven't unlocked the King's Challenge in the game but want to try it anyway can use the original configuration here. The goal is
    to rearrange the numbers so that each wheel contains numbers 1 through 6, with the numbers on the left wheel ordered clockwise, and those on the right counterclockwise, with the 1 on top on both wheels
    .)
  • edited July 2011
    Soultaker, I absolutely love what you did with the King's Challenge on your site. It's like hundreds of different King's Challenges all rolled into one. I am definitely going to explore the puzzle's variations more. I really like the puzzle, and while it is frustrating, it was very rewarding to figure it out, especially the first time.

    And if anyone ever wants to discuss possible strategy, solutions, tactics, etc. for this puzzle, I am game. Best puzzle in the game by my assessment.

    I started off trying to think of a general strategy
    (how to switch only two number, or swap two numbers next to each other, etc.)
    but realized that when I reset the puzzle,
    the left circle had some numbers already in a row,
    I started looking for solutions from the start.
  • edited July 2011
    You know, this puzzle and the similar earth and suns puzzle seems awfully familiar. It is not the same puzzle, but the similarity is clear.
  • edited July 2011
    Hmm, I hadn't even realized Earth & Sun was basically a simpler variant of the same puzzle!

    Re: Binary: you are probably comparing it with this puzzle, right?

    attachment.php?attachmentid=2674&stc=1&d=1309791576

    Although it looks similar, it is much easier than the King's Challenge because the puzzle from binary has only three labels (in that regard it's like Earth & Sun) and two buffer slots which make it a lot easier to move stuff around.

    edit: Why does this stupid forum convert my pristine 28KB PNG images to ugly JPEG images?
  • edited July 2011
    If I remember correctly, either Machinarium or Samorost 2, and/or Safecracker, had a puzzle like that, but with three circles instead of two
  • edited July 2011
    Did it! Theres a screenshot on Steam.
  • edited August 2011
    There seems to be two solutions without loops. One is the solution that Big Kahuna posted. Here is the second:
    Left, Left, Right, Left, Left, Left, Right, Right, Left, Left, Left, Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right, Right.
  • edited October 2011
    I found an other optimized solution:
    RLRRLLRLRRLLLLRRLR

    By indexing the positions as:

    - 6 - 0 -
    7 - 5 - 1
    8 - 4 - 2
    - 9 - 3 -

    Here are the shortest way to switch two numbers without changing the position of the others:
    0<->1: RLLLLRRLLLRLRRLLLRRLRLLLR
    0<->2: RRRRLRRLLRRRLLRLLLLLRRLLL
    0<->3: RRRRLRLLRRLRRLRRLLRLR
    0<->4: RRRRLLLRRLRRRRLLRLLRLLLLL
    0<->5: RRLLLLRRLLLRLRRLLLRRLRLLL
    0<->6: RRRLRRRLLLRRRLLLLLRLLRRLL
    0<->7: RRLLRLRRRLRLLRRLRLLRL
    0<->8: RLLRLRRRRRLRLLRRLRRLR
    0<->9: RRRRRLLRRRLLLLRLLRRLLLRRL
    1<->2: RRLLLRLRRLLLRRLRLLLRRLLLL
    1<->3: RRRLRRRLLRRLLRLLLLLRRRLLL
    1<->4: RRRLRLLRRLRRLRRLLRLRR
    1<->5: RRRRLLLLLRLLRLLRRRRLRRLLL
    1<->6: RLRRRRRLRLLRRLRRLRRLL
    1<->7: RLLRLRRRLRLLRRLRLLRLR
    1<->8: RRLRLLRLRRLLRLRRRLRLL
    1<->9: RLLRRLRRLRRLLRLRRRRRL
    2<->3: RLLLRLRRLLLRRLRLLLRRLLLLR
    2<->4: RRLRRRRRLLRRRLLLLRLLRRLLL
    2<->5: RRRRRLRLLRRLRRLRRLLRL
    2<->6: LRRRRRLRLLRRLRRLRRLLR
    2<->7: RRLRRLRRLLRLRRRRRLRLL
    2<->8: RLRLLRLRRLLRLRRRLRLLR
    2<->9: LLRRLRRLRRLLRLRRRRRLR
    3<->4: LLLRLRRLRRLLLLRRLRRRRRLRL
    3<->5: RRRRLLLRRLLLLLRLLRRRLLRRL
    3<->6: RLLRRRLLRRLRRRRLLLRRLLLLL
    3<->7: RLRRLRRLLRLRRRRRLRLLR
    3<->8: LRLLRLRRLLRLRRRLRLLRR
    3<->9: RRLRLLLRRLLLLRRLRRRLLRLRR
    4<->5: RRRRLRRRLRLLRLLRLRLLLLRLLRL
    4<->6: RRRRRLRRLRRLLLLRLLRRRLLLL
    4<->7: LRRLRRLLRLRRRRRLRLLRR
    4<->8: RRRLLRRLRRRRLLLRRLLLLLRLL
    4<->9: RLRLLLRRLLLLRRLRRRLLRLRRR
    5<->6: RRRRLRRLRRLLLLRLLRRRLLLLR
    5<->7: RRRLLRRRLRLLLLRLRRLLLRLLR
    5<->8: RRLLRLRRRRRLRLLRRLRRL
    5<->9: RLLRRLLLRRLRRRRRLLRRRLLLL
    6<->7: LRRRLRLLRRRLLRLRRRLLRRRRL
    6<->8: RRRLLRRRRRLRRLLLRRLLRLLLL
    6<->9: RRLRRLLRLRRRRRLRLLRRL
    7<->8: LRRRRLLRRRLRLLRRRLLRLRRRL
    7<->9: RRRRLLRRRLRLLRRRLLRLRRRLL
    8<->9: RRRLLLRRRRRLRRLLRRLLLRLLL

    Also, here is one of the 17 start positions which require a minimum of 23 moves to be completed (one move being one click):

    - 5 - 1 -
    3 - 5 - 1
    6 - 4 - 2
    - 6 - 4 -

    Here is one of the 98 start positions which require a minimum of 16 moves to be completed (one move being pressing 'L', 'R', 'Shift'+'R' or 'Shift'+'L' on Soultaker's The King's Challenge page):

    - 5 - 1 -
    6 - 5 - 1
    6 - 4 - 3
    - 2 - 4 -

    Finally, here is one of the 1949 start positions which require a minimum of 10 moves to be completed (one move being a free rotation of one of the disk):

    - 6 - 1 -
    5 - 4 - 1
    4 - 5 - 2
    - 6 - 3 -

    PS: @Soultaker: Your script is very nice. Congrat!
  • edited November 2011
    If I remember correctly, either Machinarium or Samorost 2, and/or Safecracker, had a puzzle like that, but with three circles instead of two

    It was Machinarium-You did it to unlock a safe and get the grapple gun.
  • edited January 2012
    King's Challenge isn't in the filing cabinet, you unlock it when you finish every other puzzle (I'm not sure if getting Puzzle Agent ranking matters, but I did).

    Where is it? I have all 33 solved and a rank of "Puzzle Agent!" but I don't see anywhere to access this puzzle.
  • edited January 2012
    jclast wrote: »
    Where is it? I have all 33 solved and a rank of "Puzzle Agent!" but I don't see anywhere to access this puzzle.

    You need a perfect on every puzzle to unlock it.
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