Constructive Criticism concerning season 1

edited August 2007 in Sam & Max
I just finished Bright Side of the Moon a while back and thought I would thrown in some constructive criticism about what I think would improve the next season.

*SPOILERS*

1. Fix length trial and error puzzles

There is almost nothing more annoying than a lengthy trial and error puzzles. Typically these work well but a couple had way too much talking and cut scenes that they became frustrating. For me the biggest one was the finale to The Bright Side of the Moon. The constant change from each of the four sections was frustrating not because I couldn't figure it out but because of how long it took to go through each one. I eventually just broke down and looked up the solution because I didn't feel like wasting my time trying to figure it out. This also happened to me in the Midtown Cowboys puzzle which while funny became aggravating when it took me about fifteen trials to get the solution.

2. Change comments

For me it was annoying to have the first few episodes with the comments of everything to be exactaly the same. Perhaps in the future you could make the line different every episode or perhaps change the items that are selectable for comments.

3. Rename file names
This is something simple and small but for me it is annoying to have the episodes listed out of order in the program files because Windows sorts by filename. Perhaps if you could name the beginning of each file as Sam and Max-Episode X-Title of Episode. It's a small thing but to my organized mind it is really annoying. (In fact so much I went back and renamed them all! :p )

Other than that keep up the good work. I loved season 1 and am anticipating season 2.
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Comments

  • edited May 2007
    The trial and error puzzles aren't really trial and error puzzles though. You are supposed to sit and think logically what you need to do. Going through clicking on everything defeats the purpose of figuring out the puzzle. Why do you want to solve the last puzzle of the first season within 30 seconds?
  • edited May 2007
    Er, why are you launching them from the program files folder? They're in the right order under All Programs. If you just have to launch them from the program files then right click when you're in the telltale games folder and set arrange icons by modified instead of name.
  • edited May 2007
    The filename issue is why I'm glad that I installed SupSuper's Vista Support patch. Now, I've got all 6 episodes listed in order in my Games folder with all the side information. It's nifty, to say the least.
  • edited May 2007
    Hero1 wrote: »
    The trial and error puzzles aren't really trial and error puzzles though. You are supposed to sit and think logically what you need to do. Going through clicking on everything defeats the purpose of figuring out the puzzle. Why do you want to solve the last puzzle of the first season within 30 seconds?
    That was after about twenty minutes of frustration. I seriously couldn't figure it out because every time I tried anything Bliss took me off to the next thing...
  • LKrLKr
    edited May 2007
    Even if Telltale doesn't like giving hints to the final puzzle, I think there should be more subtle hints available for those who need them at the end. Because at almost all end puzzles, Max is off doing something Max-y.
  • edited May 2007
    More fiddly things: Mini-games, running gags, visual gags based on clicks, semi-changeable world events that may or may not effect the greater story, more "organic"ness to the world.
  • edited May 2007
    My biggest suggestion is to have more NPCs that you can talk to that are just there to give one-liners. It makes the world feel more alive. It also requires more hours of character modeling, but, well, it's just a suggestion.

    I don't think having different comments for the items in each episode is important, and I think it's messed up that lots of professional reviewers complained about that as if it's a serious flaw. Nobody's forcing you to click them again... If it actually were one long game, you wouldn't expect to get new comments every 4 hours or so. It's not exactly a productive use of your time. That should be considered purely extra.
  • edited May 2007
    I agree with different npcs. They don't have to say anything and I don't mind if telltale recycles the texas hold em models once more. they can just stereotype a certain character like garbage man or whatever by havin the same model sheet, but different facial traits. It worked for HTR , why not season2? For those who didn't know, Lucasarts reused the DOTT Bernard sprite for the HTR game. He was the clerk at the restaruant wher S and M went for minigames and such.
  • edited May 2007
    Yeah I'd definitely like to see more characters in the games.. just to give the environments more life.. even if they only have 1 or two lines.. The casino is a classic example where there could have been a few funny people in there playing
  • edited May 2007
    True. The places in the game is dead even though the characters mention ppl, which I don't see; Max talks about how innocent ppl where hurt in episode 3 after the climax.

    I too, think the casino should have ppl. It made the leisure suit larry games lively and I don't think ppl would mind seein same character models with different textures and such in the background. However, would having npcs slow up the game? I can see that bein a problem for ppl on old computers.
  • edited May 2007
    Maybe it's not so much that there needs to be more people...but there needs to be something done to the atmosphere to create the illusion of more people?

    I think a good example would be Year 1 in Grim Fandango--it's basically devoid of NPCs, and the only ones around are necessary for puzzles. But then you step outside and there's the festival going on...which you can't see in its entirety, but what you do see, along with the music and sound effects, combine to give the impression that you're standing not far away from a large crowd of people.

    I think something like that might be a little gentler on the budget (maybe? I could always be wrong) than rendering a bunch of characters and voice casting a few/all of them.
  • edited May 2007
    More NPCs would be good. More items to interact with would be cool too. More mini games as well.
  • edited May 2007
    I definitely agree with adding some visual item gags (i.e. little animations that do absolutely nothing helpful, but add to the atmosphere anyway)
  • edited May 2007
    Having only one control ('left click') has cut out a lot of HTR's un-necessary clicking, seeing as 'pick up', 'use' and 'talk to' are all basically the 'interact' action; however, I think there should still be the opportunity to look at something without otherwise interacting with it. I miss the snide comments Sam would make when you looked at things, especially people. The right mouse button isn't being used for anything outside of dialogue...!

    This would add some more entertainment value to additional minor NPCs, whose inclusion I agree would be fantastic. Anything that gives more atmosphere to the locations. Now I wonder if it would be too much to ask for more locations... even if the price of the games increases slightly :eek: It can be a bit tedious having only two locations to explore, one of which you've seen every episode so far already, and it also makes the puzzles rather one-dimensional. I'd be interested to know if anyone else would be willing to pay more for larger episodes.
  • edited May 2007
    Counter point, I liked clicking on the noose collection every episode and hearing the same awesome line. I was a little disappointed when it finally changed. Same with the relax sign.
  • edited May 2007
    Yeah, definately more NPCs are needed. You don't even need to be able to talk to them. Just having some NPCs walking down the street would be incredibly beneficial.
  • edited May 2007
    The way Max says the noose line changed in one of the episodes, before the one where the words themselves changed. He sounded less manic - I liked it the first way!
  • edited May 2007
    Problem again with the new 3d engine they are using is that it is indeed empty and such compared to 2d games. But im told it could be done, but it takes alot of time, but i for one really hope they find some way or adding more life and atmosphere, and yeah totally agreed on we need visual gags and lots of them. Being able to interact with the environment visually.

    Offcourse it takes more time and more money, But hope that Sam & max and the other games can earn enough money for telltale to expand, and the sam & max game with them.

    I for one would gladly pay more for larger episode or my all time favorite (a full game) More locations in each episode or another system to link parts togther. So they could reuse the locations again,, with new items npc and such. other than the city block/street. :)
  • edited May 2007
    AdamG wrote: »
    Yeah, definately more NPCs are needed. You don't even need to be able to talk to them. Just having some NPCs walking down the street would be incredibly beneficial.

    Yepp! They don't need to say much.. just be there.. The cars in episode 4 was a nice addition to the game
  • edited May 2007
    The right mouse button isn't being used for anything outside of dialogue...!


    Actually, the right mouse button is also used to look or describe (whatever sounds more accurate) things in your inventory box. Like you said, it would be if telltale intergrated to people and othing things other than skipping dialogue and describing things in the inventory box. However, I think file size is the culprit behind the missing function; telltale once said they wanted to make the file small enough for ppl on small connections to dl the episodes. I think having descriptions of everything in the game would increase the file size by 2.
  • edited May 2007
    doom saber wrote: »
    However, I think file size is the culprit behind the missing function; telltale once said they wanted to make the file small enough for ppl on small connections to dl the episodes. I think having descriptions of everything in the game would increase the file size by 2.

    Hmm, good point, although I doubt it would be double the size of the game - the MOST it could do is double the number of sound files, and they're only a fraction of the total game size. Besides, I'd say even on a slow connection, a file has to be pretty huge to become an 'impossible' download - just leave the computer running for a bit!
  • edited May 2007
    I may have exaggerated in my last post. However, another thing I can see telltale to do if they decide to insert more sound files is to sacrifice the quality of the samples even more. This would certainly piss off those who already complained about the quality of the speeches.
  • edited May 2007
    1. Make the episodes blend into eachother. I'm probably going to replay season 1 sometime in the future, and then I will be annoyed that I have to restart it everytime the episode changes. For season 2: make it so that the next episode just "attaches" to the last one. May require some creative thinking/programming but should be doable.

    2. Sometimes there can be more than one solution to a problem. For instance in the last episode I wanted to put the unicorn in the moon-boot-trace and heat it up that way. It wasn't under the rocket engine but it was close to it. I thought that it should have worked but it didn't, instead I had to travel back to earth and the microwave - have more than one solution to problems.

    3. More locations and characters, you don't have to make a big deal out of each one. Get em in let em do their thing get em out sort of. Let there be a wacky messenger, some crazy guy on the sidewalk that doesn't progress the story but add athmosphere... heck in the last episode I didn't even get to see how they got to the moon! I expected some major rocket launch show but you just ditched them their with their car.... hmmm...

    Not bad overall though! I really like the 3d-graphics and the look you've created. Keep up the good work!
  • edited May 2007
    heck in the last episode I didn't even get to see how they got to the moon! I expected some major rocket launch show but you just ditched them their with their car.... hmmm...

    That's the joke :P They just drove to the moon. That DeSoto can pretty much get them anywhere they need to go, even if it breaks the laws of physics and common sense to do so :D
  • edited May 2007
    MrPinkMax wrote: »
    have more than one solution to problems.

    Not really sure about this. The game needs limitations to make it challenging, besides, I'd rather have three puzzles than one puzzle with three solutions.
    MrPinkMax wrote: »
    heck in the last episode I didn't even get to see how they got to the moon! I expected some major rocket launch show but you just ditched them their with their car.... hmmm...

    I wasn't keen on getting to the moon in the Desoto either. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but that seemed too much, even as a joke. I would have liked to end up at a launch-pad having to find a way to sneak onto a rocket or steal a shuttle, for example. It might still have been a bit unbelievable when it came to travelling back and forth between Earth and the moon, but less so than getting there in a car!
  • edited May 2007
    It would have been better had the Desoto been equiped with some new booster engine or something. :)
  • jmmjmm
    edited May 2007
    And they can breathe on the moon, the moon can *talk*, there is a giant marble head *alive*, an hypnotic beam.... and a talking dog with a rabbity thing to boot...jeez, this is a comic based game its not a NASA simulation.
  • edited May 2007
    That's precisely my point RE suspension of disbelief. They're all fine - typical cartoony things. The flying car just didn't do it for me, though.

    (Edit: sounded unintentionally lippy before - sorry!)
  • edited May 2007
    I dunno, they've driven to the moon before, canonically. It's a shame they didn't mention the matchsticks again, but other than that it doesn't bother me.
  • edited May 2007
    I don't know anything about the last trip. What were the matches about? A new booster engine would've been a good idea, I agree :D
  • edited May 2007
    In both the comic and the cartoon show, they go to the moon by stuffing the exhaust pipe with matches, apparently. If I remember right.
  • edited May 2007
    Hehe - see I like that! It's ridiculous, but kind of passes for an explanation within the Sam and Max universe.
  • edited May 2007
    as much as i like the fact that episode 6 started on the moon (which made all of the recouring street locations more intresting) i would have really liked to seen getting to the moon as a puzzle in-itself..... just to add to the first act of the game

    because the only puzzle in the first act was getting the unicorn to turn red

    ......and before you all go saying that the spoon globe and lunar puzzles were in the first act...... in my mind they were not, because the first act is the puzzles to get into some place (ex the Ep. 2 audition, getting into reality 2.0, etc.) and every other episode had had 2 first act puzzles, episode 6 only had one.... which was kinda dissappointing

    but..... the episode did have anough over all puzzles, the first act only had one, but the second act had 3, the third act had 4, and the final act also had 3 smaller puzzles connected into one big one..... so, it is a trade off

    the car was broken in episode 5 and it would have been funny if it still was in episode 6..... even though they still use it to get to the moon, they should have had an explosion or something, to throw the broken car back and forth between the 2 places

    overall i still loved the episode...... but those are my 2 cents
  • edited May 2007
    1) Maybe a little less running gags ?
    i mean the bosco got a new disguise/ Sybil gots a new job and Bosco's hight prices for a new crapy object we're really fun at first but it get old fast. I would really have enjoyed at least one épisode without one of them ( I think would have been the good one, russian bosco's wasn't really funny.)

    2) In ep 3, during the car chasse scene ,Sam refuse to shoot the mobster because"it would harly be sporting", same thing with the green max in ep 6. That doesn't seem to be really in character, i mean: In the comics, S&m didn't hesitate to push an angry mob in lava, and in hit the road they freeze conroy bumpus and drown him as a sacrifice.

    as for the going on "the monn thing", it would have been funier I you saw fire comming from the exaust pipe aof the dessoto.
  • edited May 2007
    Obviously the point in not being able to shoot people is to stop you taking the easy way out, but maybe it would work better if Sam just shot and missed at the mobsters, for example, as they do at him.

    Just to be pedantic, Conroy Bumpus didn't drown, because he was then donated to the circus, still in his block of ice. Still pretty cruel, but that's what made it funny!
  • edited May 2007
    Surely more NPCs and the possibility to EXAMINE something without necessarily use it, by clicking the right button of the mouse. I guess that's just not possible because of file dimension matters: more lines said = bigger file dimension. Too bad, though.
  • edited May 2007
    More NPCs, and different settings in each episode. I was sick of Bosco and whatshername by the end of the season. I would like to see much more geographical scope. Also more mini games that are unique to each episode, like the "your momma jokes", "tic tac doom" etc...
  • edited May 2007
    Oh, and I forgot that I'd like to move quickly to another room by double clicking, in pure CMI or Full Throttle style. But it's not that important, anyway.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2007
    In the comics they don't even show the desoto driving there, you just turn the page and they say "Well, here we are in ancient Egypt!" or "here we are in the Phillipines!" etc.
  • edited May 2007
    I thought it was funny that they just appeared on the moon.

    At first I thought, "How'd they get there?", then I got it.

    Funny "haha", not funny "ho ho". Or maybe the other way around. I'm not quite sure.
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