While it doesn't necessarily have to have Rosella or Alexander, I'd love to revisit the Land of the Green Isles or the Eldritch Realm. However, I'd be just as happy having a story that looks at what King Graham was up to during the 6th and 7th games, too.
And we've only gotten to play as Valanice once, so being able to play as her again might be fun. There's also the option of playing as the child of Alexander or Rosella... or maybe even a stranger to Daventry (or perhaps an everyday citizen).
As for the story, I dunno. I kinda like to be pleasantly surprised most of the time. Overall the stories in the 3rd-7th games didn't really disappoint (1 and 2 didn't have much story), but this will be done by entirely new people. It'll be hard to truly see it as an official continuation or expanded universe within the series and not fan-material. At least for some people, and myself included.. but I've had no real issues with Telltale's games for the most part and have greatly enjoyed Sam & Max, Strong Bad, and Monkey Island.
As long as the story is engaging, the characters well written, and the puzzles hit that sweet spot of not-too-hard or not-too-easy, I'll probably be happy.
While it doesn't necessarily have to have Rosella or Alexander, I'd love to revisit the Land of the Green Isles or the Eldritch Realm. However, I'd be just as happy having a story that looks at what King Graham was up to during the 6th and 7th games, too.
And we've only gotten to play as Valanice once, so being able to play as her again might be fun. There's also the option of playing as the child of Alexander or Rosella... or maybe even a stranger to Daventry (or perhaps an everyday citizen).
As for the story, I dunno. I kinda like to be pleasantly surprised most of the time. Overall the stories in the 3rd-7th games didn't really disappoint (1 and 2 didn't have much story), but this will be done by entirely new people. It'll be hard to truly see it as an official continuation or expanded universe within the series and not fan-material. At least for some people, and myself included.. but I've had no real issues with Telltale's games for the most part and have greatly enjoyed Sam & Max, Strong Bad, and Monkey Island.
As long as the story is engaging, the characters well written, and the puzzles hit that sweet spot of not-too-hard or not-too-easy, I'll probably be happy.
What I want is:
Tone: A mix of KQ5 & KQ6. Somewhere in between the two.
Story: Something simple, but epic. Think what KQ8 could've been if it had had no action, focused more on the story, and was done in VGA with one of the Royal Family. The epicness of KQ8, but simple.
Main Character: King Graham or Rosella. Or perhaps a side character who hasn't been the protagonist yet.
Setting: Somewhere exotic. A mix of lands: One that is like Medieval Germany perhaps, another that is like the Middle East (think QFG2); Another that is perhaps more city-like. Basically the scope that KQ5 has. Something like the lands in QFG or the Conquests series.
The problem I always encountered with KQ8 was that I couldn't finish it due to bugs and glitches. I recently purchased it as part of the packs GOG was selling, but haven't gotten to it yet. I don't recall if the bugs were addressed, but I know people said they were able to complete, so I'm hopeful.
King's Quest games should never revisit a previous land, other than Daventry. That is the format used in the earlier games...
It should always involve a new land, for the main portion of the game.
Shadrack, should be a villain at some point during an official KQ game (not necessarily in the next one). But he should not be tied into every single plot line in the series... Like Alhazred, or Mordack, his story and his villainy should be limited to the game they appear physically in.
He might mention Mordack, and Alhazred, but references like in previous games should be used sparingly. Much like how the Vizier is a limited name toss in KQ5, and Shadrack is a limited name toss in KQ6, and Mordack is only mentioned briefly in KQ6.
The purpose of this is that KQ should be largely stand alone... It is not "Lost", it is not about conspiracy theories, mysteries and long story arcs...
The same could be said for Hagatha... in the official KQ2, the manual made her out to be an important villain, but there is nothing that can be done with her in the main game... Last we know she was left in Kolyma (attending the wedding of all things)... But this means she is still a viable future villain... But only if her return concerns that game alone. So the possiblity of her being defeated finally is still possible. Just as long as the game isn't a return to Kolyma...
Also Manannan is always out there, as a possible returning villain, he has returned once already... Always a chance he could return again... Also leading to closure for the character.
Yes, even Lolotte threatened she would take revenge on Rosella... Although that seems less likely considering the situation she was left in at the end of the story... I doubt there are very many who would be willing to resurrect her... Unless she still had a few loyal goons left... But I suppose that's always a possible story route as well... Just as long the game isn't a return to Tamir....
The problem I always encountered with KQ8 was that I couldn't finish it due to bugs and glitches. I recently purchased it as part of the packs GOG was selling, but haven't gotten to it yet. I don't recall if the bugs were addressed, but I know people said they were able to complete, so I'm hopeful.
Many of the bugs still exist, but there are ways to avoid/get around them. Just make sure you are playing with Zeckenseck's glide wrapper to get the best visuals designed for the game.
Story: Something simple, but epic. Think what KQ8 could've been if it had had no action, focused more on the story, and was done in VGA with one of the Royal Family. The epicness of KQ8, but simple.
What you describe, wouldn't really have been KQ8 with those changes... It would have been something completely different...
I dunno, I feel that forcing it to always be somewhere/place new excludes the possibility of fleshing out previously touched upon material. I like learning new things about places I've been to before, or seeing how people have gotten in since the last time I visited.
I'm not sure where you got the Lost and conspiracy theory stuff, though. Unless this is something to do with TSL, which I've not played. I know people like "originality" but there's nothing wrong with treading old ground. I find that just as limiting.
I dunno, I feel that forcing it to always be somewhere/place new excludes the possibility of fleshing out previously touched upon material. I like learning new things about places I've been to before, or seeing how people have gotten in since the last time I visited.
That's not what King's Quest was about... That's what the fan games do...
You seriously must play through the original series in order, and you'll see that they never took things that deeply... Each game was fairly stand alone... Really only KQ3, KQ5, and KQ6 link to each other somewhat. Only through a couple of returning characters, Manannan and Cassima (also Vizier is mentioned in both KQ5 and appears in KQ6)... and KQ4 and KQ7 link somewhat (Edgar returns)...
KQ3 has a returning character from KQ1, but he's not used that deeply (Rumplestiltskin)... Rumpy reappears in KQ5, his personality is different...
KQ2 is pretty much a direct continuation off of KQ1 but they aren't really all that directly linked... the same can be said of KQ3 to KQ4... Directly linked, but don't really tie into each other that much...
If you wanted to learn a little more about the lands, that's what the King's Quest Companion was for...
Also consider whenever Roberta recycled Daventry the geography and scenery was never consistent! It was modified every time! I really don't want to see that happen to other places we have visited already...
Retreading back over the same areas of the lands seen in a previous game could get boring and would be unoriginal. This is probably one of the reasons I find many of the telltale games to be somewhat boring, as they are more insular and keep you in a small confined area/s, instead of expanding out to new areas... Tales of Monkey Island at least expanded out of that model somewhat...
Part of KQ universe is learning about the nations of the universe, outside of Daventry. So that each game has an original land to discover. Not only is it a discovery for the character in the game, its a discovery for the player themselves...
The exception was Daventry, it was the center of the universe . It needed to be incorporated into each game somehow. Also technically KQ5 was a sequel to Wizard and the Princess... At least as far as visiting the same land (although again geography isn't very consistent)... King's Questions was sorta of a sequel to KQ6 (in story, not gameplay), and briefly touched the Land of the Green Isles (after the events of the game)...
I'm not sure where you got the Lost and conspiracy theory stuff, though. Unless this is something to do with TSL, which I've not played. I know people like "originality" but there's nothing wrong with treading old ground. I find that just as limiting.
The only other series that is nearly close to KQ as far as how lands are presented to the player... The idea of new lands to discover, is Quest for Glory series...
Even it didn't directly retread on older realms...
Although it relied on more foreshadowing of future realms the Hero would go on to visit, and characters from past games informing the player on what was going on in the lands the Hero had already left.
As a series it relied alot more on reoccuring characters (or characters who know characters from previous games), and continuity arcs between those characters... Which was certainly beyond the scope of KQ style...
QFG has the feel of a story planned out in advance, with an eventual conclusion...
King's Quest has the feel of a story being discovered as it went along... A Never Ending Story....
The only other series that is nearly close to KQ as far as how lands are presented to the player... The idea of new lands to discover, is Quest for Glory series...
Even it didn't directly retread on older realms...
Although it relied on more foreshadowing of future realms the Hero would go on to visit, and characters from past games informing the player on what was going on in the lands the Hero had already left.
As a series it relied alot more on reoccuring characters (or characters who know characters from previous games), and continuity arcs between those characters... Which was certainly beyond the scope of KQ style...
QFG has the feel of a story planned out in advance, with an eventual conclusion...
King's Quest has the feel of a story being discovered as it went along... A Never Ending Story....
QFG was very much planned out. There was only supposed to be 4 games, actually. Wages of War was never supposed to be made; It was supposed to be the first and second game, with the third game being Shadows of Darkness and the fourth and final game being Dragon Fire...They had the story and it's end planned out from the beginning. However, the Coles felt that such a sudden big jump--to the dark tone of Shadows of Darkness--wouldn't go over well with fans and so Wages of War was made, despite them never intending it. It was the only game which was not planned and made on the fly.
Whereas with KQ, each game was what Roberta wanted the series to be at the moment; As she said, each KQ game was an expression of whatever her mood was at the time. Hence the series going boomeranging from lighter stories, to dark stories, back to lighter stories; From Disney inspired to JRR Tolkien inspired.
Off note but--If traditional adventure games had continued to have mainstream popularity into the late 1990s, I wonder what KQ8 would've been like.
Right, I know the history! I have QFG omnipedia, where we have gone into that in great detail! I'm just comparing the differences here though a somewhat more vaguer manner . I didn't want to turn it into an essay!
that such a sudden big jump--to the dark tone of Shadows of Darkness--wouldn't go over well with fans and
Actually the jump was, that they didn't think that the "Hero" would be powerful enough to take on forces such as Vampires at the point just after teh second game. From a story and challenge stand point they wanted the character to 'grow' some more.
Off note but--If traditional adventure games had continued to have mainstream popularity into the late 1990s, I wonder what KQ8 would've been like.
Well, we still know the whole idea she wanted 3D she was talking about as early as 1994... She was talking about possible action concepts (based on stuff she saw on pcs and consoles, super mario 64/doom) as early as 1995 (she had a Japanese prototype of the "ULtra 64" before most people ever saw pictures in the US)...
So I don't think she really ever had a plan to make it anything different... She was just really impressed with the real time action, and fully explorable 3D worlds...
The real question is what would it have been like if Doom and Nintendo 64 hadn't been in development at that time (to inspire her in that direction)?!
I don't think you start seeing the whole "industry is dieing' mantra pop out of them until 1996... Earlier I think it was like 'ooh cool new tools, new bells and whistles, I can do new things in my adventures, yippee!!!' Like a child in a candy store...
So another good question is if the appeal of adventure games had lasted (realizing that KQ8 is basically what she had intended KQ8 to be from the start anyways, she looked at action, and designed action, before she even started on puzzles), what would she have done with KQ9... Would it have gone back to being more traditional? Or would she have pushed things further the direction she was taking things?
I don't know Anakin could probably give you the profit margins for many specific game when the first came out, or relative success of individual products...... ...
He's way more into the general Sierra history as it relates to company management...
I'm more interested in history of development for individual games...
I wouldn't mind seeing a game that forced you to visit all of the previous lands. It would be interesting to have to go between the lands to rally it's people to a unified cause. Each location could be changed due to events that have taken place since you last visited. So while a bit familiar, they would also be very different.
Unless Roberta was involved I'm not sure I'd care to see a new land. And I'll be damned if that is "what king's quest is about" or not.
A time traveling tale where you go between the old games and see yourself actually working through the old puzzles, but can't be seen by yourself would be interesting. Somehwat similar to SQ4's sequence of game jumping.
Point being, there are many ways to revisit familiar places without treading the exact same ground.
Then you might as well be playing The Silver Lining, because what you describe is nearly what the Four Winds magazine and what the game does... "rallying characters from many of thr games together from previous lands" and a return to the Green Isles...
Seriously one the reasons creating a new land and a stand alone story (as Roberta did it originally) is that doesn't tie every single game in the series together in a complicated mess, is because a story in a new land avoids creating continuity/canon breaking issues and mischaracterizations as everything is 90% original...
I wouldn't mind seeing a game that forced you to visit all of the previous lands. It would be interesting to have to go between the lands to rally it's people to a unified cause. Each location could be changed due to events that have taken place since you last visited. So while a bit familiar, they would also be very different.
Unless Roberta was involved I'm not sure I'd care to see a new land. And I'll be damned if that is "what king's quest is about" or not.
A time traveling tale where you go between the old games and see yourself actually working through the old puzzles, but can't be seen by yourself would be interesting. Somehwat similar to SQ4's sequence of game jumping.
Point being, there are many ways to revisit familiar places without treading the exact same ground.
If you want time travel go play Wizard and the Princesss and the follow up with its sequel, Adventure in Serenia!
Snickers...
Brilliant marketing strategy! Marketing the same game (with only a few minor differances graphically) as its own sequel through a time travel story gimmick!
Some speculate that KQ7 might take place between KQ4 and KQ6.
I definitely want a new land, but starting with some exploration of Daventry would be good, too
Starting or ending up in an area in Daventry is always a good idea... It worked in KQ3 and KQ8. Most games started in Daventry in some fashion.
One possiblity is Graham is visiting another land at the start of the game, or has been captured by an army and taken to another land. His kingdom invaded. In both cases he has to solve puzzles in the new land, and work his way back to Daventry to save it!
I'm not sure I want a game that is fully set in Daventry again... We had that back in KQ1. I want to explore new areas of the world, new kingdoms... As long as I get a bit of both some Daventry, and primarily a new kingdom. That would be cool.
I haven't played TSL, and based on the stills I have seen I don't much like the art style.
Secondly, just because they took the idea I floated and did it poorly, does not ean there is not a positive way of doing it.
I have played Wizard and the princess however, and it's sequel. I wouldn't qualify either as games that made my enjoyable list.
As I stated in my post, there are ways of covering familiar territory without blatantly repeating the content. And as a second repeat, i don't care for a new land developed by some jackass fan.
I think my time in these threads has basically proven to me Id rather the KQ series just stop right where it is. I don't want a Telltale game and I don't want some over thought out mess that some fan came up with.
i don't care for a new land developed by some jackass fan...and I don't want some over thought out mess that some fan came up with.
I don't care for some 'jackass' fan screwing up, ruining or complicating previously explored lands and characters (some over thought out mess)...
Seeing as what Telltale did with Sam and Max... It went back to street where Sam and Max's office is located (which was really only briefly visited in Hit the Road)... It stayed there in nearly every single episode, and pretty much remained static (as far as barely evolving over the course of the series)... Making things more and more complicated there... Until they killed off the original Max...
Ugh, I can't think that a King's Quest made that way would end up looking like the land in Strong Bad's with castle, and similar type puzzles... That really don't 'explore' the land in much detail... Just more and idiotically complicated plotline in the same three screens...
Seeing as what Telltale did with Sam and Max... It went back to street where Sam and Max's office is located (which was really only briefly visited in Hit the Road)... It stayed there in nearly every single episode, and pretty much remained static (as far as barely evolving over the course of the series)... Making things more and more complicated there... Until they killed off the original Max...
This made me laugh. It puts a game I actually liked in the worst possible light, and it's 100% accurate.
But even tho I was okay with it for Sam & Max, it's definitely wrong for KQ! I think Tales is more likely to be the model we'll see -- it didn't go anywhere we'd been in the previous games and it didn't weave in any existing plot threads. But it did turn the Voodoo lady into an over thought out mess IMO.
Ya, Thom, I like it too, its very funny... It was great to get more Sam and Max... but its no where near as good as Hit the Road...
Yes, its wrong for KQ... LOL.
But it did turn the Voodoo lady into an over thought out mess IMO.
Hah hah...
LeChuck was already becoming an overly thought out mess by the end of MI2 and 3! Guess they thought they needed to add in another overly complicated mess... lol...
Oh, and Hermain Toothroot was made way too complicated by MI4, LOL....
Ya, Thom, I liike it too, its very funny... It was great to get more Sam and Max... but its no where near as good as Hit the Road...
Yes, its wrong for KQ... LOL.
Hah hah...
LeChuck was already becoming an overly thoughout mess by the end of MI2 and 3! Guess they thought they needed to add in another overly complicated mess... lol...
Oh, and Hermain Toothroot was made way too complicated by MI4, LOL....
Only people like Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer should be making games like Monkey Island.
And yes, I know Ron Gilbert spent a day here as a "story consultant," but it's very clear that the Tales story was written by people who didn't fully grasp the beauty of the simpler stories of the original games. The tone of the humor was pretty spot on, but the story reeks of bad fan fiction in places. The overwrought Voodoo Lady as series evil mastermind element is just the worst offender, but there are others. And then of course, it pulls the WORST POSSIBLE BULLSHIT ANY GAME OR MOVIE STORY CAN PULL--it leaves blatant unanswered questions meant for an obvious sequel when a sequel is anything BUT certain. I fucking hate that shit.
And I actually think Tales was Telltale's BEST GAME.
Don't be misinformed, a lot of the people who worked on Tales worked on at least one of the original MI games, including Dave Gilbert who was there from the beginning. I just don't think it was the best of the people who worked on the originals.
I actually liked the voodoo lady retcon. I was so sick and tired of LeChuck being the only villain.
Exploring a new land; if Daventry is also used, its inclusion as a navigable land is minor and brief (eg. KQ3);
One or more members of the Royal Family are main characters;
Quality voice acting (incl. Josh Mandel as Graham);
Reasonably difficult puzzles, which sometimes in part include using inventory items on other inventory items;
Multiple options for interaction with inventory and environment;
Lots of hotspots per screen, whether or not many be superfluous;
Frequent potential for death;
Restore/Restart/Quit upon death, and if Retry/Quit (a la KQ7) is included, it is not set by default;
The majority of the entire navigable area (which feels reasonably vast) is almost immediately apparent, but access only opens up as various puzzles are completed or items are obtained.
Doesn't matter if they worked on the originals if they weren't a apart of the creative process. Monkey Island is defined by it's storyline, dialogue, and puzzles. I may be wrong, but I recently watched Schaffer and Gilbert talking quite a bit about the early days (on their kickstarter project page), and it appears that all three of these things were spearheaded by Gilbert. So just because some guy drew the sprite of guybrush holding his breath underwater doesn't make them any more qualified to work on a Monkey island game than any other sprite artist in my opinion.
I attended the summer Olympics 4 years ago year, but that doesn't mean you'd put me on the swim team this year, nor would you recruit the towel boy to replace Phelps and then say 'Includes members of the original team!'
you guys and your literal interpretations of everything. "sprite artist" was an example to make a point.
Simple terms - unless he was involved with the creative process of monkey island, than any work he did on it is irrelevant to me.
Wikipedia states he co-designed DoT, and was a programmer on MI.
How does being a programmer on the original MI make him any more qualified to work on a future MI game than anyone else?
I'm glad the guy gets to continue working on the series, and I'm glad the series turned out well compared to some other recent offerings, but I would find it hard to believe that his time programming on the original game gave him any insight that made him more qualified than someone else.
It just seems misleading to me, like when movies are advertised by "the director of nightmare before christmas", which banks on the fact that people assume Tim Burton directed it, which he did not. You'll never see a tagline that says, "Directed by Henry Selick"... nope, he will be forever known as the guy who directed NMBC, because trying to get people to mistake him for tim burton will always be more profitable than trying to establish him as a stand alone director.
Wikipedia states he co-designed DoT, and was a programmer on MI.
How does being a programmer on the original MI make him any more qualified to work on a future MI game than anyone else?
If you listen to the way the people who were there talked about those days at Lucasarts, it seems like everyone on the team did a bit of everything. I don't doubt that Dave Grossman had a hand in the creative process behind Monkey Island, though certainly not as much as Ron Gilbert.
Anyway, who really cares? A game doesn't have to be made by old, legendary designers to be good, it just has to be made by people who know how to design good games. I'm not necessarily claiming that Telltale has those people or not, just that the dogmatic attitude is kind of silly. Then again, you sort of seem to be contradicting yourself and arguing my point a couple paragraphs down, so yeah...
I can't find where I read it, but I seem to recall Mike Stemmle became lead writer for Escape after the only previous involvement he had in a Monkey Island game was as a programmer for Curse. Certainly he was a co-designer for Hit the Road, but that didn't make him knowledgeable about Monkey Island.
you guys and your literal interpretations of everything. "sprite artist" was an example to make a point.
I got that. So was mine. My point was that Dave did more than some meaningless task. He actually wrote quite a bit of dialogue, for one thing, as is evidenced in commentary on MI2:SE.
I actually agree with you, though. I did say I don't think that any of the better people behind Monkey Island actually worked on Tales.
I can't find where I read it, but I seem to recall Mike Stemmle became lead writer for Escape after the only previous involvement he had in a Monkey Island game was as a programmer for Curse. Certainly he was a co-designer for Hit the Road, but that didn't make him knowledgeable about Monkey Island.
Don't get me wrong, though. Tales is a good game.
Completely agree. If I had to rank MI games, Escape would be dead last. Sure it had it's moments but it hardly felt like Monkey Island game to me.
Comments
And we've only gotten to play as Valanice once, so being able to play as her again might be fun. There's also the option of playing as the child of Alexander or Rosella... or maybe even a stranger to Daventry (or perhaps an everyday citizen).
As for the story, I dunno. I kinda like to be pleasantly surprised most of the time. Overall the stories in the 3rd-7th games didn't really disappoint (1 and 2 didn't have much story), but this will be done by entirely new people. It'll be hard to truly see it as an official continuation or expanded universe within the series and not fan-material. At least for some people, and myself included.. but I've had no real issues with Telltale's games for the most part and have greatly enjoyed Sam & Max, Strong Bad, and Monkey Island.
As long as the story is engaging, the characters well written, and the puzzles hit that sweet spot of not-too-hard or not-too-easy, I'll probably be happy.
Tone: A mix of KQ5 & KQ6. Somewhere in between the two.
Story: Something simple, but epic. Think what KQ8 could've been if it had had no action, focused more on the story, and was done in VGA with one of the Royal Family. The epicness of KQ8, but simple.
Main Character: King Graham or Rosella. Or perhaps a side character who hasn't been the protagonist yet.
Setting: Somewhere exotic. A mix of lands: One that is like Medieval Germany perhaps, another that is like the Middle East (think QFG2); Another that is perhaps more city-like. Basically the scope that KQ5 has. Something like the lands in QFG or the Conquests series.
It should always involve a new land, for the main portion of the game.
Shadrack, should be a villain at some point during an official KQ game (not necessarily in the next one). But he should not be tied into every single plot line in the series... Like Alhazred, or Mordack, his story and his villainy should be limited to the game they appear physically in.
He might mention Mordack, and Alhazred, but references like in previous games should be used sparingly. Much like how the Vizier is a limited name toss in KQ5, and Shadrack is a limited name toss in KQ6, and Mordack is only mentioned briefly in KQ6.
The purpose of this is that KQ should be largely stand alone... It is not "Lost", it is not about conspiracy theories, mysteries and long story arcs...
The same could be said for Hagatha... in the official KQ2, the manual made her out to be an important villain, but there is nothing that can be done with her in the main game... Last we know she was left in Kolyma (attending the wedding of all things)... But this means she is still a viable future villain... But only if her return concerns that game alone. So the possiblity of her being defeated finally is still possible. Just as long as the game isn't a return to Kolyma...
Also Manannan is always out there, as a possible returning villain, he has returned once already... Always a chance he could return again... Also leading to closure for the character.
Yes, even Lolotte threatened she would take revenge on Rosella... Although that seems less likely considering the situation she was left in at the end of the story... I doubt there are very many who would be willing to resurrect her... Unless she still had a few loyal goons left... But I suppose that's always a possible story route as well... Just as long the game isn't a return to Tamir....
Many of the bugs still exist, but there are ways to avoid/get around them. Just make sure you are playing with Zeckenseck's glide wrapper to get the best visuals designed for the game.
What you describe, wouldn't really have been KQ8 with those changes... It would have been something completely different...
I'm not sure where you got the Lost and conspiracy theory stuff, though. Unless this is something to do with TSL, which I've not played. I know people like "originality" but there's nothing wrong with treading old ground. I find that just as limiting.
That's not what King's Quest was about... That's what the fan games do...
You seriously must play through the original series in order, and you'll see that they never took things that deeply... Each game was fairly stand alone... Really only KQ3, KQ5, and KQ6 link to each other somewhat. Only through a couple of returning characters, Manannan and Cassima (also Vizier is mentioned in both KQ5 and appears in KQ6)... and KQ4 and KQ7 link somewhat (Edgar returns)...
KQ3 has a returning character from KQ1, but he's not used that deeply (Rumplestiltskin)... Rumpy reappears in KQ5, his personality is different...
KQ2 is pretty much a direct continuation off of KQ1 but they aren't really all that directly linked... the same can be said of KQ3 to KQ4... Directly linked, but don't really tie into each other that much...
If you wanted to learn a little more about the lands, that's what the King's Quest Companion was for...
Also consider whenever Roberta recycled Daventry the geography and scenery was never consistent! It was modified every time! I really don't want to see that happen to other places we have visited already...
Retreading back over the same areas of the lands seen in a previous game could get boring and would be unoriginal. This is probably one of the reasons I find many of the telltale games to be somewhat boring, as they are more insular and keep you in a small confined area/s, instead of expanding out to new areas... Tales of Monkey Island at least expanded out of that model somewhat...
Part of KQ universe is learning about the nations of the universe, outside of Daventry. So that each game has an original land to discover. Not only is it a discovery for the character in the game, its a discovery for the player themselves...
The exception was Daventry, it was the center of the universe
AGDI and TSL... Both take it that route...
Longest Journey/Dreamfall too... King's Quest isn't TLJ/Dreamfall...
Even it didn't directly retread on older realms...
Although it relied on more foreshadowing of future realms the Hero would go on to visit, and characters from past games informing the player on what was going on in the lands the Hero had already left.
As a series it relied alot more on reoccuring characters (or characters who know characters from previous games), and continuity arcs between those characters... Which was certainly beyond the scope of KQ style...
QFG has the feel of a story planned out in advance, with an eventual conclusion...
King's Quest has the feel of a story being discovered as it went along... A Never Ending Story....
QFG was very much planned out. There was only supposed to be 4 games, actually. Wages of War was never supposed to be made; It was supposed to be the first and second game, with the third game being Shadows of Darkness and the fourth and final game being Dragon Fire...They had the story and it's end planned out from the beginning. However, the Coles felt that such a sudden big jump--to the dark tone of Shadows of Darkness--wouldn't go over well with fans and so Wages of War was made, despite them never intending it. It was the only game which was not planned and made on the fly.
Whereas with KQ, each game was what Roberta wanted the series to be at the moment; As she said, each KQ game was an expression of whatever her mood was at the time. Hence the series going boomeranging from lighter stories, to dark stories, back to lighter stories; From Disney inspired to JRR Tolkien inspired.
Off note but--If traditional adventure games had continued to have mainstream popularity into the late 1990s, I wonder what KQ8 would've been like.
Actually the jump was, that they didn't think that the "Hero" would be powerful enough to take on forces such as Vampires at the point just after teh second game. From a story and challenge stand point they wanted the character to 'grow' some more.
Well, we still know the whole idea she wanted 3D she was talking about as early as 1994... She was talking about possible action concepts (based on stuff she saw on pcs and consoles, super mario 64/doom) as early as 1995 (she had a Japanese prototype of the "ULtra 64" before most people ever saw pictures in the US)...
So I don't think she really ever had a plan to make it anything different... She was just really impressed with the real time action, and fully explorable 3D worlds...
The real question is what would it have been like if Doom and Nintendo 64 hadn't been in development at that time (to inspire her in that direction)?!
I don't think you start seeing the whole "industry is dieing' mantra pop out of them until 1996... Earlier I think it was like 'ooh cool new tools, new bells and whistles, I can do new things in my adventures, yippee!!!' Like a child in a candy store...
So another good question is if the appeal of adventure games had lasted (realizing that KQ8 is basically what she had intended KQ8 to be from the start anyways, she looked at action, and designed action, before she even started on puzzles), what would she have done with KQ9... Would it have gone back to being more traditional? Or would she have pushed things further the direction she was taking things?
He's way more into the general Sierra history as it relates to company management...
I'm more interested in history of development for individual games...
Unless Roberta was involved I'm not sure I'd care to see a new land. And I'll be damned if that is "what king's quest is about" or not.
A time traveling tale where you go between the old games and see yourself actually working through the old puzzles, but can't be seen by yourself would be interesting. Somehwat similar to SQ4's sequence of game jumping.
Point being, there are many ways to revisit familiar places without treading the exact same ground.
Seriously one the reasons creating a new land and a stand alone story (as Roberta did it originally) is that doesn't tie every single game in the series together in a complicated mess, is because a story in a new land avoids creating continuity/canon breaking issues and mischaracterizations as everything is 90% original...
Snickers...
Brilliant marketing strategy! Marketing the same game (with only a few minor differances graphically) as its own sequel through a time travel story gimmick!
Graham between KQ1 and 2 maybe. Second choice Rosella, somewhere between KQ4 and 6.
I definitely want a new land, but starting with some exploration of Daventry would be good, too.
Starting or ending up in an area in Daventry is always a good idea... It worked in KQ3 and KQ8. Most games started in Daventry in some fashion.
One possiblity is Graham is visiting another land at the start of the game, or has been captured by an army and taken to another land. His kingdom invaded. In both cases he has to solve puzzles in the new land, and work his way back to Daventry to save it!
I'm not sure I want a game that is fully set in Daventry again... We had that back in KQ1. I want to explore new areas of the world, new kingdoms... As long as I get a bit of both some Daventry, and primarily a new kingdom. That would be cool.
Secondly, just because they took the idea I floated and did it poorly, does not ean there is not a positive way of doing it.
I have played Wizard and the princess however, and it's sequel. I wouldn't qualify either as games that made my enjoyable list.
As I stated in my post, there are ways of covering familiar territory without blatantly repeating the content. And as a second repeat, i don't care for a new land developed by some jackass fan.
I think my time in these threads has basically proven to me Id rather the KQ series just stop right where it is. I don't want a Telltale game and I don't want some over thought out mess that some fan came up with.
I don't care for some 'jackass' fan screwing up, ruining or complicating previously explored lands and characters (some over thought out mess)...
Seeing as what Telltale did with Sam and Max... It went back to street where Sam and Max's office is located (which was really only briefly visited in Hit the Road)... It stayed there in nearly every single episode, and pretty much remained static (as far as barely evolving over the course of the series)... Making things more and more complicated there... Until they killed off the original Max...
Ugh, I can't think that a King's Quest made that way would end up looking like the land in Strong Bad's with castle, and similar type puzzles... That really don't 'explore' the land in much detail... Just more and idiotically complicated plotline in the same three screens...
This made me laugh. It puts a game I actually liked in the worst possible light, and it's 100% accurate.
But even tho I was okay with it for Sam & Max, it's definitely wrong for KQ! I think Tales is more likely to be the model we'll see -- it didn't go anywhere we'd been in the previous games and it didn't weave in any existing plot threads. But it did turn the Voodoo lady into an over thought out mess IMO.
Yes, its wrong for KQ... LOL.
Hah hah...
LeChuck was already becoming an overly thought out mess by the end of MI2 and 3! Guess they thought they needed to add in another overly complicated mess... lol...
Oh, and Hermain Toothroot was made way too complicated by MI4, LOL....
Only people like Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer should be making games like Monkey Island.
And yes, I know Ron Gilbert spent a day here as a "story consultant," but it's very clear that the Tales story was written by people who didn't fully grasp the beauty of the simpler stories of the original games. The tone of the humor was pretty spot on, but the story reeks of bad fan fiction in places. The overwrought Voodoo Lady as series evil mastermind element is just the worst offender, but there are others. And then of course, it pulls the WORST POSSIBLE BULLSHIT ANY GAME OR MOVIE STORY CAN PULL--it leaves blatant unanswered questions meant for an obvious sequel when a sequel is anything BUT certain. I fucking hate that shit.
And I actually think Tales was Telltale's BEST GAME.
I actually liked the voodoo lady retcon. I was so sick and tired of LeChuck being the only villain.
I attended the summer Olympics 4 years ago year, but that doesn't mean you'd put me on the swim team this year, nor would you recruit the towel boy to replace Phelps and then say 'Includes members of the original team!'
Simple terms - unless he was involved with the creative process of monkey island, than any work he did on it is irrelevant to me.
Wikipedia states he co-designed DoT, and was a programmer on MI.
How does being a programmer on the original MI make him any more qualified to work on a future MI game than anyone else?
I'm glad the guy gets to continue working on the series, and I'm glad the series turned out well compared to some other recent offerings, but I would find it hard to believe that his time programming on the original game gave him any insight that made him more qualified than someone else.
It just seems misleading to me, like when movies are advertised by "the director of nightmare before christmas", which banks on the fact that people assume Tim Burton directed it, which he did not. You'll never see a tagline that says, "Directed by Henry Selick"... nope, he will be forever known as the guy who directed NMBC, because trying to get people to mistake him for tim burton will always be more profitable than trying to establish him as a stand alone director.
If you listen to the way the people who were there talked about those days at Lucasarts, it seems like everyone on the team did a bit of everything. I don't doubt that Dave Grossman had a hand in the creative process behind Monkey Island, though certainly not as much as Ron Gilbert.
Anyway, who really cares? A game doesn't have to be made by old, legendary designers to be good, it just has to be made by people who know how to design good games. I'm not necessarily claiming that Telltale has those people or not, just that the dogmatic attitude is kind of silly. Then again, you sort of seem to be contradicting yourself and arguing my point a couple paragraphs down, so yeah...
Don't get me wrong, though. Tales is a good game.
I got that. So was mine. My point was that Dave did more than some meaningless task. He actually wrote quite a bit of dialogue, for one thing, as is evidenced in commentary on MI2:SE.
I actually agree with you, though. I did say I don't think that any of the better people behind Monkey Island actually worked on Tales.
Completely agree. If I had to rank MI games, Escape would be dead last. Sure it had it's moments but it hardly felt like Monkey Island game to me.