Why I lost interest after EPISODE 1
I know I'm not helluva popular around here.
Anyway, I was thinking yesterday while making some lunch why I never bought the rest of the SAM & MAX SEASON 1 episodes. I didn't give it much thought, and thought about something else. Then I thought I should try and figure out WHY exactly I didn't buy the rest of the season, because Telltale would probably like to know. I do this out of my former love of Sam & Max. (Love the first game and the comics, but not this season. Instead of saying 'because it sucks' I tried to put my finger on it. It's the story. I didn't buy it. The premise is that these wackos are small-time criminals trying to take over the world. I get that. But...they're just not believable enough, and don't plug into any existing archetypal baddies to make we even WANT to know what happens in subsequent episodes. Then I watched a little clip of Max in the White House, and I bought that (I didn't buy the game, I just thought it was cool that I could transfer all my pre-existing ideas of the White House onto this little movie clip where Max is sitting in the president's chair.)
So, it was the lackluster story that prevented me from buying any more episodes. I played through EPISODE 1, but I kind of knew in future episodes I'd be doing the same thing - clicking on stuff, driving the cop car, busting wacko's, and only really playing through to hear Sam & Max's quips. If the story were more BELIEVABLE and more was at risk, I might be prone to thinking a bit more about it and liking it a bit more. But, any cops could be doing Sam & Max's work, and the thing could just as well be an animated show without my help. It plays like that. Sam & Max's lives are never REALLY at risk, and the criminals don't have any human traits that I can relate to. Normally the story's a bit more complex where the villain has something admirable, or used to be mates with the good guys. The baddies in the first episode were merely IRRITATING. You get the sense that all the characters in the game are kind of relaxed and not really too concerned with what's happening. All a bit introspective, although I know that's a part of S&M's personalities...I think it works in the comics and the first game because the art was so great. It was a nice juxtaposition. But in the new series, the graphics aren't enough of a pulling point for me to tip the scales.
Without trying to sound too much like a whining granny, some more things that put me off were the lack of things to draw me in. In fact, I felt as though I was merely an insider looking in to this game that could live without me. The color palette was a bit wishy-washy...a bit sickly. I understand 3D's a bit tricky, but everything had this permanent omni-light thing...like Grim Fandango was better than this. The characters were a bit blocky. I understand the need for the game to run on slower machines, but I tried to see past the rough edges into the story, which there was nothing gripping.
Animation was good.
The graphics, animation and sound are all secondary. What I really am trying to get at here, is how about something a bit more EPIC? Where more is at stake, where Sam & Max are put in totally unfamiliar circumstances and surroundings, where they're really put to the test, and where the baddies are a bit cooler than dime-store thieves with harebrained schemes that end up sounding like they were cooked up by a pre-schooler taking the pi$$. It's alright if they try and take over the world, but make it GRANDER, more epic, cleverer.
(only paper I had was from my New York diary)
A back-story of how Sam & Max got to become friends and cops would also help me identify with these guys. For all I know, it's a rabbit and a dog dressed up as cops, thrown into some 3D world to fight crime. I don't get it. How did baby Max and baby Sam meet? I need to believe more in these guys.
That's why you didn't get my money the first time, Telltale. I considered just shutting up, but then you get the SILENT MAJORITY thing where you just hear the few who pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you're doing. I didn't like SEASON 1, even though I only played EPISODE 1, I didn't want to play more. In my mind, SEASON 1 was rushed and half-baked.
Make the story more epic and have Sam & Max have some personal thing they need to go up against to make there more at stake, and I might be able to look past the rough graphics and compressed sound into something much much deeper than some bratty kids using hypnosis to take over the world (Dave Grossman, c'mon bruski!)
Anyway, I was thinking yesterday while making some lunch why I never bought the rest of the SAM & MAX SEASON 1 episodes. I didn't give it much thought, and thought about something else. Then I thought I should try and figure out WHY exactly I didn't buy the rest of the season, because Telltale would probably like to know. I do this out of my former love of Sam & Max. (Love the first game and the comics, but not this season. Instead of saying 'because it sucks' I tried to put my finger on it. It's the story. I didn't buy it. The premise is that these wackos are small-time criminals trying to take over the world. I get that. But...they're just not believable enough, and don't plug into any existing archetypal baddies to make we even WANT to know what happens in subsequent episodes. Then I watched a little clip of Max in the White House, and I bought that (I didn't buy the game, I just thought it was cool that I could transfer all my pre-existing ideas of the White House onto this little movie clip where Max is sitting in the president's chair.)
So, it was the lackluster story that prevented me from buying any more episodes. I played through EPISODE 1, but I kind of knew in future episodes I'd be doing the same thing - clicking on stuff, driving the cop car, busting wacko's, and only really playing through to hear Sam & Max's quips. If the story were more BELIEVABLE and more was at risk, I might be prone to thinking a bit more about it and liking it a bit more. But, any cops could be doing Sam & Max's work, and the thing could just as well be an animated show without my help. It plays like that. Sam & Max's lives are never REALLY at risk, and the criminals don't have any human traits that I can relate to. Normally the story's a bit more complex where the villain has something admirable, or used to be mates with the good guys. The baddies in the first episode were merely IRRITATING. You get the sense that all the characters in the game are kind of relaxed and not really too concerned with what's happening. All a bit introspective, although I know that's a part of S&M's personalities...I think it works in the comics and the first game because the art was so great. It was a nice juxtaposition. But in the new series, the graphics aren't enough of a pulling point for me to tip the scales.
Without trying to sound too much like a whining granny, some more things that put me off were the lack of things to draw me in. In fact, I felt as though I was merely an insider looking in to this game that could live without me. The color palette was a bit wishy-washy...a bit sickly. I understand 3D's a bit tricky, but everything had this permanent omni-light thing...like Grim Fandango was better than this. The characters were a bit blocky. I understand the need for the game to run on slower machines, but I tried to see past the rough edges into the story, which there was nothing gripping.
Animation was good.
The graphics, animation and sound are all secondary. What I really am trying to get at here, is how about something a bit more EPIC? Where more is at stake, where Sam & Max are put in totally unfamiliar circumstances and surroundings, where they're really put to the test, and where the baddies are a bit cooler than dime-store thieves with harebrained schemes that end up sounding like they were cooked up by a pre-schooler taking the pi$$. It's alright if they try and take over the world, but make it GRANDER, more epic, cleverer.
(only paper I had was from my New York diary)
A back-story of how Sam & Max got to become friends and cops would also help me identify with these guys. For all I know, it's a rabbit and a dog dressed up as cops, thrown into some 3D world to fight crime. I don't get it. How did baby Max and baby Sam meet? I need to believe more in these guys.
That's why you didn't get my money the first time, Telltale. I considered just shutting up, but then you get the SILENT MAJORITY thing where you just hear the few who pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you're doing. I didn't like SEASON 1, even though I only played EPISODE 1, I didn't want to play more. In my mind, SEASON 1 was rushed and half-baked.
Make the story more epic and have Sam & Max have some personal thing they need to go up against to make there more at stake, and I might be able to look past the rough graphics and compressed sound into something much much deeper than some bratty kids using hypnosis to take over the world (Dave Grossman, c'mon bruski!)
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I agree with a couple of the other things you said, i.e. the interactive movie comment. I'd also like to see a more challenging set of games, but that's been discussed in lots of other places already. And the omni-light... I guess you're right, although it never bothered me too much. I like the cartoony appearance of the game in general.
An evil villain whose head is a fish in a bowl is more believable than Hugh Bliss? comeon now.
Basically, you never played any of the later episodes. And now that they're all released and their basic contents can easily be looked up without spending a dime, you come back to state that everything you know about them is guesswork based on a single screenshot, but you know that they don't live up to your expectations. And to remind everyone that you really really hated that one episode too and the developers did a horrible job.
But if they come and grovel for you a bit and promise to put exploding volcanoes and character death into the first ten minutes of Season 2, ep1 (just like the way it was in Hit the Road), you - and the enormous mass of people just like you - might try it.
That about right?
If the series started off on a massive scale, where to from there? Downsizing is not an option, and Sam and Max skipping from saving the world from hypnotism one month and then saving the world from some other, equally destructive, disaster the next is hardly the "believable" story you say you want.
It's really unfair to judge the whole series on the basis of the first episode.
Hence we have 1 of the flaws of Episodic delivery. Getting people interested in a Series through the first Episode is always difficult. Starting small, then getting bigger is easier, but attracts less people (the judge based on number 1). Staring large and keeping it large is difficult to do well. Very difficult, especially since the only way is down.
Still, people should learn to not do this, and actually try the rest of something before making up their minds. Its like arriving at a theme park, riding on 1 out of many rides, and then calling the park shit. Or watching the first five minutes of a movie and calling it boring.
Anyway, it's rather unfair to compare this series towards the comics or hit the road, since that was another time, and another place. Still, I think it's good that people have opinions, and I won't buy the next season, unless some miracle happens which makes the next season to be completely different from the first season(in many aspects). I think that about sums it up. - marsan out.
"It was somebody claiming to be the commissioner who sounded exactly like the commissioner and who I think probably actually was the commissioner."
I don't really understand what you are complaining about, and in fact, judging something that you just know 1/6 looks a bit... I don't know... premature ?
You also don't like the art, and that's fair enough as well. Still, that's also a matter of taste, and one that not everyone will agree with you on. It's all right. You can always go back and dust off your old copy of HTR.
*shrugs*
Anyway I do agree there should be a little more going on in each episode and add a few more places and things. The episodes didnt feel as if they lasted long enough and to me id rather a huge game that takes me 12 hrs than one 5-6 part game that takes me 15-20 min each to beat. But still you cant compare this to the comic, other game, or videos.
I hope to see telltale flip heads with the next season.. maybe open doors that were not before(not literally doors) Anyway I think this was a great and bold move and in the end im glad it happened and im sure telltale is too!
But, yeah, they could have made everything more clear then they did. The plot and how it developed was a major complaint of reviewers all the way to the end, actually. But if you were paying attention the plot was actually quite obvious. Many of us here on the boards figured out the villian and the plot around episode 4, for example.
Marsan is right, though, about how it is good you are voicing your opinion here. Maybe they will take some of your complaints into consideration for Season 2, or other games.
So what you're telling me, is that you don't like the season because you don't like a plot that, in fact, it does not have?
Please excuse me if I don't take you seriously.
With that said, it is not uncommon for shows to received poor reviews in the first few seasons, but then take off in the next.
For instance, I recently read the wiki article of Late night with Conan O'Brien and how his show show was on the verge of being cancelled during ht e first season. It only picked up momentum in season 4. Jerry Springer had a similar situation where it was going to be cancelled, but was saved by good ratings soon after.
Other shows I can name that did bad, but became TV classics are Seinfield, Married with Children, Family Matters, Saved by the Bell, and the original Star Trek series(it became popular after being cancelled.)
With that in mind, one cannot base the whole series on one episode, especially when episode 1 and not HTR is the "pilot" episode. If ppl stopped watching shows like Married with Children and Seinfield, we wouldn't have last as long as the first few season to become the series it is now known for.
Episode 4 is the start of a zany and ridiculous world that seems fiting for the two characters.
I thought episode 1 was a good stand alone ep that had nothing to do with the greater plot. It remind me of a stand alone episode that one can play without going to the next one to explore the overall plot more.
Sure, the ending opens to the next episode, but the way they did it, it was like any other stand alone episode with a open ended ending.
When that is said, the only reason Seinfeld got popular was because it was lucky enough to have a big fan who worked in the management, who kept it alive for a long time despite of poor ratings. Then, Cheers got canceled, since one of the last of the "old" main characters which they hadn't yet replaced, decided to call it quits. Thus they needed some show they could put in right away in the same time slot. The big fan in the management suggested Seinfeld since it had been running for a long time, and he wanted to give the show a real chance. Suddenly Seinfeld was put in the best hour for TV, and had millions of viewers. If it weren't for those two incidents, Seinfeld would probably never have become the big hit became, in fact it was about to get canceled on a number of occasions.
To make anything big, amazing and creative, first of all you need money and people in strong positions who have faith in you. But what you need more than anything is a great portion of luck. Making great series/movies/games are more about luck than it is about anything else. The history books are filled with great products which never came to exist, just because of stuff which nobody could have ever foreseen.
I disagree with most of your statements. First off, you are basing the entire season on one episode. That was the starter episode. It's not like you're going to get anything really special there, if you actually know how a plotline works.
Second of all, you think that the "Soda Poppers" are the only villains you'll ever see in Season One. "The premise is that these wackos are trying to take over the world." If you actually did try the rest of the season, you could put those fears to rest. The game is NOT about those guys. So quit thinking that it is! You can't criticize a game based on a storyline it doesn't have.
Third of all, yet again you're saying that the entire "lackluster story" was the reason you didn't try the rest of the game out. Yet again, that is only the starter episode. You're not going to be playing the same exact game 6 times over. I agree, the story was pretty bad. But it's not the entire season's story.
Then you say that you "wish that the story was more believable". If you've read the comics, like you say you have, I would think you'd know that almost all of the stories for those comics are so impractical, you almost wonder why you're still intrigued.
Fifth, you say that you "wish that more was at risk". You have to remember that this is an episodic adventure game. Any episodic game's demographic is going to be the people who like the genre, but can't stand to do it for more than 3-6 hours. Therefore, people who like entire games probably will think it's too short and half-baked. That's because they forget it's an EPISODIC game. I'm not saying that it's for newbies, although it probably is a better starting ground, but that it's not for the hardcore. If there was a lot of character death, I think newbies would be complaining endlessly about hardness of the game, wheras now, hardcore people were complaining endlessly about the easiness of the game. You can't really get a happy medium. Telltale is not making Sam & Max games just for you. There's other people in the world, too. Telltale has to make these games for a large and diverse audience.
Sixth, you complain about the graphics. Let me know if I'm wrong, but aren't Sam & Max cartoon/comic characters? It's not like Telltale is gonna go all realistic on us and somehow have "photorealistic" shots of an anthropormorphic dog and a hyperkinetic lagomorph. You also say that the character are blockly. I've got a solution. Turn the graphics up. Better?
Also, if the next Sam & Max game was about global warming, I'd commit suicide.
Surely you're not suggesting that he's trolling, are you?
*makes for the exit*
:P
*curls into a fetal position, clutching copies of Sonic Rush and Sonic and the Secret Rings*
Sonic the Hedgehog (360)...never again...
self-explanatory
haha!
My hope was that you let me feel like I am the actor and the one who is pushing the buttons!
I know your budget was not the biggest so you didn t make this game so dynamic, but if I were you I would put more dynamics in the next game, and why not put some more options like the old "pull push use watch talk etc etc...." (sometime is funny to try "pull" or "use" to someone to see what happens).
This is a computer game and not a cartoon so let it feel more like a game :cool:...
This are my wishes for session two so I hope for myself that this changes will come
I'm not sure which I prefer, to be honest, although I definitely think 'look at' should be there and possibly 'pick up', because these are less commonly covered by the 'interact' option. Having more than two verbs means you can't just assign a mouse button to each, of course.