It sucks being a Sierra fan....
Does anyone else ever feel that it kind of sucks sometimes to be a fan of Sierra, or Sierra's games? Not because of the games themselves--they're quality, awesome games, classics--But because of all that has happened since around 1999 or so?
I'm not old enough, sadly, to have actively experienced Sierra's glory days--Not in any major way. I played my first Sierra game in 1995, at the age of 5--Right around the time the "good times" were about to end for Sierra, and in any case, too young to fully understand.
But playing the games, watching and checking out all the bonus material that Sierra would put in their Collections, reading stuff like InterAction Magazine (having bought a few issues off Ebay), I can get just a taste of what an amazing time it must've been. Sierra, at it's peak, must've been both an exciting and fantastic place to work at--and for the fans which churned out classics of place which inspired awe and wonder. It must've rivaled Disney under Walt Disney in terms of the general "magic" surrounding the company.
To this day, I contend that there isn't nor hasn't been any game company which is as cool, or as good to it's fans, or as "warm" as Sierra under Ken Williams was. From InterAction, to the bonus features, to their No Risk Return policy, Sierra seemed to do it's all to make you feel like a part of the "Sierra Family"--to make the customer feel like he or she wasn't just a faceless consumer, but were themselves a part of the whole operation--That they were listened to, understood and treated as more than just a faceless market.
Even while CEO, Ken Williams would come on Usenet and chat with fans directly, nothing censoring the fans' questions. That would be like the CEO of Activision (Sierra was, in terms of size, power and income, the Activision or EA of the early-mid 90s) coming into a thread and directly chatting. You don't see that kind of accessibility or warmth from any company except perhaps small ones. And somehow despite having over 1,000 employees and being a publicly traded company, Sierra did manage to maintain that intimate, accessible sort of feel that a small group of rebel game makers would have, rather being than the cold, detached monolith which most corporations are.
And then the bad times came. Sierra was sold once, then financially gutted because it's new owners were corrupt and used Sierra's name in illegal activities, then sold again to a company which had no interest in what made Sierra what it was, a company which promptly shut down Sierra's adventure game divisions and shut down the original headquarters which helped give the company it's name, the place from which so many classic and beloved emerged. Ken and Roberta Williams sailed, with the money made from the first sale, away from the gaming industry, and all the rest of Sierra's writers, artists and designers either quit or were fired when Sierra was sold to Vivendi.
Then Vivendi decided they were going to "bring back" some of Sierra's classic franchises, while giving a big middle finger to the original designers who made said franchises and rejecting any advice or offers of help...And promptly shat out Leisure Suit Larry: Magnum Cum Laude, a horrendous, generic, half baked game which shares with the real LSL series only a common brand name. And they attempted to make a "sequel" to Space Quest around the same time--which had nothing to do with the original Space Quest series at all.
Around this time, Vivendi shut down Sierra's physical headquarters at Bellevue--Having been Sierra's HQ since 1993--and closed down Sierra's last remaining subsidiaries. Sierra was reduced to being a company which existed only in name--a brand and logo which Vivendi slapped on it's products for the next several years, whose legacy was forgotten totally and desecrated. And then finally, Activision laid the name to rest...Sadly for good.
A last LSL game was released, and it was much the same as Magnum Cum Laude--It had nothing to do with the original series.
And that's where we stand. Yes, we have a remake of the original LSL being made by Al, Josh and some of the others...But I am skeptical. Not because I doubt the talents of any involved--But because we live in a time where the gaming industry has no real soul left; It's just utterly commercial, generic crap being pumped out by faceless companies, each trying to copy and out do the other. We live in an age where the gaming industry is locked into very narrow boxes and doesn't tend to accept anything outside of those boxes--And Sierra's games, and adventure games in general, fit way outside any box with their innocent, goofy atmosphere and non-violent formats.
That's why I support this TT game. Not because I am certain it will be good, but because even if it's say, closer in format to KQ7 than to KQ6, if it's successful, it might show Activision that REAL adventure games can make money. That it's worth investing in them further. If I had to choose between Activision doing a KQ game in house or farming it out to TT, the choice is clear. Even if it's not a "great game" by the standards of die hard fans, if it is a good KQ game--which respects the originals, has the same atmosphere, has the non violent format--and suceeds--it could change the game up a little.
It largely sucks to be a Sierra fan, because for the last decade or so we've been disappointed over and over again, but I do look to TT's game with a glimmer of hope, and at the larger picture, and I hope I'm not fooled again.
I'm not old enough, sadly, to have actively experienced Sierra's glory days--Not in any major way. I played my first Sierra game in 1995, at the age of 5--Right around the time the "good times" were about to end for Sierra, and in any case, too young to fully understand.
But playing the games, watching and checking out all the bonus material that Sierra would put in their Collections, reading stuff like InterAction Magazine (having bought a few issues off Ebay), I can get just a taste of what an amazing time it must've been. Sierra, at it's peak, must've been both an exciting and fantastic place to work at--and for the fans which churned out classics of place which inspired awe and wonder. It must've rivaled Disney under Walt Disney in terms of the general "magic" surrounding the company.
To this day, I contend that there isn't nor hasn't been any game company which is as cool, or as good to it's fans, or as "warm" as Sierra under Ken Williams was. From InterAction, to the bonus features, to their No Risk Return policy, Sierra seemed to do it's all to make you feel like a part of the "Sierra Family"--to make the customer feel like he or she wasn't just a faceless consumer, but were themselves a part of the whole operation--That they were listened to, understood and treated as more than just a faceless market.
Even while CEO, Ken Williams would come on Usenet and chat with fans directly, nothing censoring the fans' questions. That would be like the CEO of Activision (Sierra was, in terms of size, power and income, the Activision or EA of the early-mid 90s) coming into a thread and directly chatting. You don't see that kind of accessibility or warmth from any company except perhaps small ones. And somehow despite having over 1,000 employees and being a publicly traded company, Sierra did manage to maintain that intimate, accessible sort of feel that a small group of rebel game makers would have, rather being than the cold, detached monolith which most corporations are.
And then the bad times came. Sierra was sold once, then financially gutted because it's new owners were corrupt and used Sierra's name in illegal activities, then sold again to a company which had no interest in what made Sierra what it was, a company which promptly shut down Sierra's adventure game divisions and shut down the original headquarters which helped give the company it's name, the place from which so many classic and beloved emerged. Ken and Roberta Williams sailed, with the money made from the first sale, away from the gaming industry, and all the rest of Sierra's writers, artists and designers either quit or were fired when Sierra was sold to Vivendi.
Then Vivendi decided they were going to "bring back" some of Sierra's classic franchises, while giving a big middle finger to the original designers who made said franchises and rejecting any advice or offers of help...And promptly shat out Leisure Suit Larry: Magnum Cum Laude, a horrendous, generic, half baked game which shares with the real LSL series only a common brand name. And they attempted to make a "sequel" to Space Quest around the same time--which had nothing to do with the original Space Quest series at all.
Around this time, Vivendi shut down Sierra's physical headquarters at Bellevue--Having been Sierra's HQ since 1993--and closed down Sierra's last remaining subsidiaries. Sierra was reduced to being a company which existed only in name--a brand and logo which Vivendi slapped on it's products for the next several years, whose legacy was forgotten totally and desecrated. And then finally, Activision laid the name to rest...Sadly for good.
A last LSL game was released, and it was much the same as Magnum Cum Laude--It had nothing to do with the original series.
And that's where we stand. Yes, we have a remake of the original LSL being made by Al, Josh and some of the others...But I am skeptical. Not because I doubt the talents of any involved--But because we live in a time where the gaming industry has no real soul left; It's just utterly commercial, generic crap being pumped out by faceless companies, each trying to copy and out do the other. We live in an age where the gaming industry is locked into very narrow boxes and doesn't tend to accept anything outside of those boxes--And Sierra's games, and adventure games in general, fit way outside any box with their innocent, goofy atmosphere and non-violent formats.
That's why I support this TT game. Not because I am certain it will be good, but because even if it's say, closer in format to KQ7 than to KQ6, if it's successful, it might show Activision that REAL adventure games can make money. That it's worth investing in them further. If I had to choose between Activision doing a KQ game in house or farming it out to TT, the choice is clear. Even if it's not a "great game" by the standards of die hard fans, if it is a good KQ game--which respects the originals, has the same atmosphere, has the non violent format--and suceeds--it could change the game up a little.
It largely sucks to be a Sierra fan, because for the last decade or so we've been disappointed over and over again, but I do look to TT's game with a glimmer of hope, and at the larger picture, and I hope I'm not fooled again.
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No, it's a great time to be a Sierra fan. It doesn't matter what the rest of the industry thinks about it. I personally do not care. I don't even care if ActiVision takes notice or not. I'm just glad to see these old celebrated adventure creators back in the business again, for however long it may be. It's more than we could ever have hoped for. I've got to say, I'm more excited about the new IPs these old designers are wanting to create than the remakes or sequels they may or may not have planned. I'm happy to see games in a style we love and used to get all the time coming back again.
Oh hey, remember that time when Dan Connors, Telltale CEO, checked in to the forum regularly over a couple of weeks and answered fans' questions directly? Sure Telltale isn't quite Sierra-sized, but that's pretty cool.
Ok stop right there for a sec. If you're not seeing soul, you're walking around with your eyes closed. It's never been easier for developers (indies in particular) to reach fans directly, to distribute their wares widely via electronic channels, and to use crowdsourcing to make the kind of games that people want to play. That is having an amazing effect on the diversity of the gaming landscape.
Is LSL the only thing on your gaming horizon?
Jane Jensen (Gabriel Knight, King's Quest VI) just achieved 145% funding for her Kickstarter project and will be making not one, but TWO games in the coming year. The information available so far for Moebius has got me ridiculously excited.
The creators of Space Quest also have a Kickstarter project running to create a traditional adventure game (set in space of course) that combines a point-and-click interface with a text parser. A TEXT PARSER. How can that not excite a fan of oldschool adventure games??
Not to mention that we have a new, official King's Quest game coming out. I've been waiting for this since 1997... that's FIFTEEN YEARS. This is a pretty goddamn amazing time to be an adventure game fan, and a Sierra fan in particular.
If you truly believe this, go poke around on Steam or ask in the General Chat forum for some indie game recommendations. Get over the nostalgia for a minute, and you will find there is a whole wide and varied world of stuff out there.
I was happy to find TTG and the current interest in the genre because of the kickstarter campaigns.
In the last years we've had several fangames, a couple remakes, several old Sierra vets making a come back, some games to look forward for, truckloads of Let's Plays... This is a great time to be a Sierra fan.
And I like how you're skeptical of Leisure Suit Larry when we know it will involve good old puzzle solving, point and clicking, Al and Josh's involvement and extra stuff added to it, but you're not one bit skeptical of Telltale Games' King's Quest, about which we know nothing, except their previous and less than stellar attempts at "re-inventing" the genre.
As for Telltale's King's Quest, I'm not skeptical about it. Sure, their games based on entertainment licenses have been a mixed bag as far as adherence to the adventure game genre (and the easiness factor), but they haven't screwed up an adventure-based (or a property that has already had adventures) license yet.
Sam & Max: Season One is equal to Hit the Road, and the other two seasons blow Hit the Road away, in my opinion.
Also, in my opinion, Tales of Monkey Island was miles better than Escape from Monkey Island (which I still liked, despite it's flaws), and I even thought that it was better than Curse of Monkey Island (which I loved) and was equal to the original two games in the series.
As for Tales of Monkey Island, they even added the ability to combine inventory items which fans have been clamoring for since Sam & Max: Season One (which added a depth and challenging factor to the game).
Also, the puzzles in Tales of Monkey Island weren't super easy, and they did get harder as the series went on, despite Telltale already heading towards the casual market at that time. The same could be said for Sam & Max: The Devil's Playhouse, which was released in the same year as the oft-complained about super-easy Back to the Future episode 1.
They know what King's Quest fans want for the series, and I'm sure they'll deliver.
Man has a point here. You're totally not being consistent, Anakin. Which is it? Hope or despair?
More that I find the prospect of a totally new game more exciting than yet another remake.
I didn't say I'm "excited" per se. Perhaps I should've used the word interesting. I said it sometimes sucks to be a Sierra fan because we've frankly gotten repeatedly disappointed for more than a decade when it comes to Sierra and the treatment of it's IPs by the IP holders. I just see this new, original game as a glimmer of hope. It will be something new, and may change the game a little if it is successful. It could even possibly be good. That, to me, is a little more interesting than a remake of a game that was already remade. If Replay Games and Al and the rest were making a new LSL sequel, it'd be exciting (but to be honest I was never really a big LSL fan)...But we've had more than a decade of remakes.
I don't view Mark & Scott making Space Venture as all that exciting because, while it's cool that they're together again, it's not Space Quest. It's different. Maybe it will be good, maybe not--I don't know. But I haven't been looking forward to Space Venture for years. But I have been looking forward to a new Space Quest game for years.
And I've never been a big Jane Jensen fan, so the fact that her kickstarter was successful, while it's great for her fans and for adventure games in general, doesn't really excite me because I've never really been into her work.
My favorite Sierra series were KQ, SQ, QFG, Conquests, the Phantas series, Laura Bow and a bunch of non-series games. LSL and Gabriel Knight never were my thing.
It's not the same as the CEO of what was then the biggest computer game company around talking to the fans. You guys are still a midsize company--In today's world, Ken talking to the fans so directly would be like the President of Blizzard Entertainment coming onto their forums and chatting with them. And no gaming company has the equivalent of InterAction Magazine, which was just awesome. It isn't the same.
That's all well and good, and it happens in indie and fan developer circles all the time, but most mainstream, larger companies don't tend to reach out in such a way.
LSL is not really on my gaming horizon, for reasons mentioned above--Sierra remakes don't tickle my fancy anymore, and LSL1 has already been remade once before, and I was never an LSL fan. If they were making a real "Larry 8", I'd be thrilled and would play it because I'm starved for something new and original in a Sierra series, even if it's one I wasn't really into.
I've never been into Jane Jensen's work so while it's a boon for adventure gaming it's not something which personally has me excited. Just never really dug her writing.
Scott and Mark working together again is great and I will definitely buy Space Venture when it is out, they are tied as my second favorite Sierra designers behind Roberta, but it's not as exciting as the idea of a SQ7 happening. I'm more interested in a revival or continuation of Sierra franchises than anything else.
There's only three things interesting happening in the world of Sierra related stuff: TT's KQ game, IA's Kingdom of Sorrow, and I do want to see the last episode of TSL released sometime soon.
The only other thing which is exciting to me in gaming right now is the enhanced versions of the Baldur's Gate games, but that has nothing to do with Sierra.
Indie-games are great but what about mainstream games??
To avoid confusion here: forum mods aren't employed by Telltale and we're not part of the company. We're just volunteer community plebs.
I'm just saying that if there aren't any mainstream games you like, don't play them. There's plenty of other stuff out there. "Mainstream" does not an entire industry make, and you're tarring everyone with the same very broad brush.
At the very least, you've still got the whole library of Sierra games that were produced during the heyday. It doesn't have to "suck being a Sierra fan" just because there's nothing new coming out... a lack of new stuff doesn't need to tarnish your experience of the existing stuff.
Maybe I'm just a "glass half full" type.
Really glad to see everyone coming out of the woodwork over the last few months (well, Jane never really went away). Incredibly nice to see that message from Ken in the Spaceventure comments on KS. Not going to hold back my support for anything that Mark & Scott want to do -- it'll be an adventure game, and probably great.
Waiting for those issues of Interaction to show up really sucked, though.. And I never really saw the newsgroup posts.. There's altogether more information (and information control) out there, about everything, nowadays -- it's very different from the frustrating days of calling the Sierra 800 number and asking sales clerks when things would be released everyday (and getting a different answer from all of them... That drove me nuts).
It's not Sierra's fault that the animated adventure game fell out of commercial currency, any more than Infocom was responsible for the death of the text adventure. The market shifted toward graphics, killing Infocom and its brethren, and then 3-D hardware and new kinds of game experiences came along, killing Sierra and Lucasarts' adventure game market. It's not that the hardcore fans didn't want these games -- it's that there weren't enough casual players still buying them to keep the genre commercially viable.
It's only now in the downloadable age that adventure games are making a comeback. Why? Primarily because DISTRIBUTION COSTS ARE LOWER -- publishers don't have to fight for retail shelf space, and digital distribution is almost free once the game is done, as opposed to selling the game for $20 so that the distributor can sell it for $25-$30 and the retailer can get $50 for it. (Development costs are also lower, as this kind of technology has matured and suitable tools and engines are readily available.)
On-Line Systems / Sierra On-Line no longer exists per se, but neither does Republic Pictures or Casablanca Records. The important thing is that talented designers can once again make a living creating adventure games! And it helps us too. We can now buy a whole season of a Telltale game for $25, or a new point-and-click game like Gemini Rue or an HD remake of The Secret of Monkey Island for $10 or less. We forget that we used to pay $50 for new releases like "King's Quest V" back in the day. (That's even more impressive once inflation is taken into account!)
The viable price point and the development and distribution costs are much easier to balance now; as a result, I would argue, we have seen more new adventure games in the past five years than we did in the ten years between 1995 and 2005. That doesn't suck, not at all.
What you have not gotten your first million dollar paycheck yet? I used mine to buy all the unopened cans of crystal pepsi in existence.. and then marveled at its crystalyness.
:O
The fact that it looks like Space Quest, sounds like Space Quest, and has Space Quest characters in it by ways of the Two Guys from Andromeda leads me to think of it as a side story or a spin-off of Space Quest.
Bt
Lol... The funny thing is I think there were a couple of lawsuits over the last few years, where people are trying to make the arguement that money making companies are breaking the old labor laws by not giving online "volunteers" at least minimum wage. If those lawsuits ever survive in the favor of those making them, who knows how it will change the online aspects of industry?
That and them finally agreeing to let The Silver Lining fan project go ahead, and giving Telltale the rights to a new King's Quest game. I'd say Activision is looking after Sierra fans pretty nicely.
Thank goodness they did the QFG collection right.