you earn points for killing Dracula, the snake and the lion too. Semi-positive reward for killing! You just earn twice as many points for the non violent approach.
Whats funny is the games actually harshly penalizes you for being generous! You lose points if you buy things with minor treasures. The game rewards you for being greedy, and keeping the treasures!
So greed is good, and violence is only half as good or in some cases morally neutral (goat) as the non-violent approach but still gives you a positive reward in most cases!
Rarely do you get negative impact (points loss) from killing.
Derek Karlavagenan or whatever (I mean, look at that last name. That's pure amateur D&D fan shit right there.)
Actually Karlavaegen is a Swedish name, it also district in Stockholm where the chancery is located, Karlavaegen or Karlavägen (both spellings are used). Sort of like the Coles using Antwerp to name one of their creatures.
But then you'd need to be less provincial to know these things right?
to be a poorly written attempt to connect the real world with The World of King's Quest. It's a bit of Peter Spear's whimsy, and that's all
Any different than these quotes from Roberta (or others involved with the games), from KQ manuals or the intro from KQ6 (where the World of Daventry is actually our own "history" far in Earth's past)?
BTW, you also pointed out in another thread, that "Lorelei Shannon" was 'overthinking things', would you accuse Roberta of doing the same thing?
Note: Peter Spear actually went against Roberta's own view in this situation, by making them 'parallel worlds'.
"The chronicles of Daventry are retold, these centuries later, as the tales of King's Quest."-Roberta Williams-Interaction Magazine
"Well, ya, King's Quest is on earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams, Mask of Eternity Talkspot Interview, 1998, part 1 (1:20:40 to 1:59:58)[1]
"A long, long time ago, when unicorns still roamed the forests and the merfolk still dwelt in the shallow waters frequented by men, there ruled in the kingdom of Daventry..."-KQ1 manual.
You fall toward a distant earth.-KQ1AGI
"I'm afraid my time on Earth grows short."-Edward, KQ1SCI
"A long, long time ago, when creatures of myth and magic walked the earth openly with lesser mortals, there dwelt in the kingdom of Daventry..."-KQ2 Manual
"A long, long time ago, when magic was the only science known to man...learned in all matters of the heavens and earth. "-KQ3 manual.
"A long time ago, in a kingdom called Daventry, there lived a King named Edward."- KQ Collection 2 manual (KQ4 chapter)
"Once, in a kingdom called Daventry...According to legend, shortly after Rosella's rescue King Graham decided it was time to pass on his adventurer's cap..."-KQ4 Manual
"Long ago, in the kingdom of Daventry..."-KQ5 Manual
"A long time ago, there was a peaceful and prosperous kingdom called Daventry."-King's Quest collection manual (KQ5 section).
"A long time ago in the castle of a kingdom called Daventry..."-KQ6 intro.
"Long ago, in the kingdom of Daventry..."-KQ6 ("About King's Quest I-V")
"...face of the Earth...Mother Earth...anywhere on earth"-Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles.
"In a time long ago, magic and myth is embodied in every living creature roaming the world. Unicorns graze in forest meadows, wizards concoct mystical spells and kings and queens manage thriving kingdoms."-KQ8 demo/website description
"...the place where the earth meets the sun."-Manual, KQ8.
"I can shift the earth's magnetic pole just a tad..."-Gnomic Terramancer, KQ8.
"Once Upon a Time in a Land Faraway..."-Roberta Williams[1]
Additionally in the Mask of Eternity, Connor and a parchment refers to the planet Jupiter as well as the constellation Leo, showing that they are part of Daventry's celestial sky.
Also don't forget mentions of historical figures such as Cleopatra, Simon Byrne, William Shakespeare, or Sun Tzu... Or possibly not historic, but thought to be historic, Helen of Troy, to name a few... They also show some kind of connection to Earth's history.
So Alhazered has a Guidebook to the Green Isles? Does it mention Derek K at all? I don't think so. That book could be written by anyone.
Yes it does, its the manual for the game published by Sierra, used for the copy protection (which you have to at least use to get up the Cliffs of Logic, though the rest is easier to memorize, or you had to have had to have memorized at some point in the past). More than likely you have read it at some point, so yes it was still part of the KQ experience...
Oh, and for the Companion, did you know even Roberta herself said that it was part of the complete KQ experience?
Anyone interested in reading the story behind King's Quest or who just needs to be 'unstuck' while playing the game will find this book invaluable."-Roberta William, 1st Edition
...brings my games to life in an exciting new way. It add's another fascinating dimension to the entire King's Quest experience. It is truly a pleasure to read and a must have for anyone hoping to explore the series in greater depth and detail."-Roberta Williams, 3rd Edition
You can disagree with her if you want to, but she was the Mother of the series, and her views means something, even more so.
But again, please move away from talking about the Companion, and get back to the point of this thread... Who wants some kind of pack in material, be it a guidebook, a short story, etc...
Now if you don't want anything like that, make your peace, state you don't, and then move on... No point in repeating yourself over and over like a broken record...
Yes, I agree, Chyron coming into "My" thread, and calling KQ8 "not a core game" of the series, was hijacking my thread! I have the right to disagree with that point, or show the facts where he was wrong once he brought it to bare however (he has a right to not like the game if only if its an informed dislike, just not base his dislike on a false and misleading premise).
But is not violence still violence? Whether you kill a character as part of a puzzle, or in combat, you're still killing, and in KQ1 at least, it apparently could earn you points. I guess it comes down to whether you dislike killing itself, or the presentation of it in KQ8.
It's not about killing, it's about combat. USE DAGGER ON DRAGON is not combat.
BTW, different verbs work, such as, "Kill Dragon", or "Stab Dragon" (note other verbs that will get you interesting messages depending on the situation include 'fight' and 'attack'.).
Actually Chyron, Roberta didn't see much difference (and it was some of those KQ1 'killings' that inspired the KQ8 combat);
Note: This doesn't mean you have to like the 'combat', but it at least makes it clear where Roberta was getting her inspiration.
I have been reading with interest all of the various comments that everybody has had about KQ8 (Mask of Eternity). I find it interesting that everybody has their own ideas about what King's Quest IS. And everybody seems to have a bit different idea. It seems, on this board, anyway, that quite a few people have the idea that King's Quest is (or should be) non-violent...no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And it must be cute, funny, have fairytales in it, and have lots of puzzles and inventory objects. First of all, I have to say that King's Quest comes from ME and each one is different and has its own flavor. Some have a darker tone, and others have a lighter tone. Some touch upon violence, and some don't. King's Quest reflects the mood that I am in when I go to tackle another one...
...King's Quest really is a reflection of me and how I'm feeling about the subject and upon the reference material I am using and how I approach the subject. Basically, King's Quest comes from me and my heart and it always isn't going to be exactly the same, because I'm not always exactly the same, and I, like most people, feel a need for a change of pace and a sense of moving forward and of trying and experiencing something new...
...KQ1 certainly had violence. Sir Graham had a dagger and could kill the dragon (and it didn't get you "stuck," by the way, if you did so), and you could also kill the goat. It's true that I also had non-violent ways of dealing with those situations, but, that's because I chose to handle it that way for that particular game. I've gotten into trouble over the years for all the various ways that my main characters can "die." And they die a lot! I am known for changing course a lot, and changing my style a lot. I like change, and I like to keep people guessing...
...In the case of KQ8 I chose to give this game more of a "Tolkien-esque" feel rather than a "Disney-esque" feel. But each of the above elements is true for KQ8 as they were for KQ1 through 7. KQ8 indeed has a story, actually, a much more profound story than prior King's Quests. It is a new telling of the ultimate "quest" the quest for the most powerful, spiritual, benevolent item of all; the Mask of Eternity. This story takes its cue from two sources: the Quest for the Grail, and the Christian story of the struggle between God and Lucifer. When we say that the story is very dark that's really not true; it's just that the story is more profound and seriously looks at the struggle between good and evil. Rather than taking a bubbly, Disney view of good and evil, I chose to look at the struggle between good and evil from a more serious, traditional, almost spiritual, viewpoint. If you look at the traditional stories of the Grail and even in past Christian legend, you find that it is not light-hearted, gooey, and bubbly. Those stories are filled with conflict, peril, finding ones own morality, proving oneself a hero by overcoming evil creatures of Chaos, but yet proving oneself virtuous and good with all things good. That is the theme with this game.
It also reflects her policy to include myths and legends in the story. In this case she was taking inspiration from such diverse places as Tolkien, Arthurian (Arthur and Lancelot), Jason and the Golden Fleece, and even Star Wars. The 'Epic', where war, fighting and killing monsters is part of the story.
The reason why combat was added, and first of all, I don't think people should take it negatively because combat is definitely can be part of a story, lot of people think combat, that is just an action game, just action. But if you think about some of the great movies that have been out there, some of the great books where combat has been part of it, if you think in terms of adding it to the story, and if it fits very well with the story, then I think it's very appropriate. My idea was I wanted to do a story that was more in like the tradition of the epic games, where you had your true hero that would go out, and think about some of the old legendary figures of King Arthur or Sir Lancelot or Jason and the Golden Fleece. I mean they were all super heroes that would go out and they would fight the monsters and they were working for good. ...and really also if you sorta think about the quest, the quest for faith, or even your inner self. It can be said fighting the monsters, is the same as fighting your own inner demons. But when you think in terms of putting it into the story, fighting chaos, and your trying to set order right, and your fighting evil, I think its very appropriate. How would Star Wars be without Luke Skywalker out there fighting the bad guys.
-Roberta Williams, Talkspot part 2, December 1998
The spiritual father of Mask is J.R.R. Tolkien not Walt Disney," she concluded firmly. Connor is very much a new character. He is an inhabitant of Daventry, a kingdom he doesn't rule but whose fate lies in his hands. A terrible curse has turned all of the people living in Daventry, including the Royal Family themselves, into stone. Connor must find the answers behind the curse, including why it's been imposed, who imposed it, and, possibly most importantly, why he alone has been spared the terrible fate of his comrades. Connor is a warrior and it's his combination of strength, cunning, intuition, and intellect that makes him best-suited to save the kingdom.
-Interaction Magazine, Fall, 1997
According to Mark Seibert it was also inspired by the combat at the end of KQ6;
King's Quest: Mask of Eternity will be the first King's Quest that has an element of real-time combat. Remember King's Quest VI? Wouldn't it have been fun if you could have participated more in the final sword fight ? Well now you will! Don't worry though, this is not a combat game, it's just one of the many parts of the game that make it fun. -Mark Seibert
BTW, I don't appreciate both of you hijacking this thread
Oh man...hoo boy...oh that was a good laugh. *wipes tears*
Hehehe, anyways, I actually think something fun could be down with Derek in a game of his own, actually. Now *he* could be a good spin-off candidate, whatwith being already semi-incorporated into the world, and an explorer as well.
Did you find him lame in the Guidebook to the Land of the Green isles too? Because in that if you follow it he was on a bit of an adventure of his own through the Green Isles... there is a stand-alone story told in the book pretty much, along with all the ingame backhistory.
Honestly, Baggins, not as much. It's the Eye To The Other World crap where he communicates to Peter Spear that I find lame.
I do think he'd be a good protagonist for a Quest spin off. He's out to catalog and write about lands in the world of Daventry and gets sucked into his own adventure. I would pay for that, actually.
I'm not that big a fan of the 'eye between the world', "down the rabbit hole/through the looking glass"/"lion witch, and the wardrobe/portal to narnia" stuff either.
I prefer Roberta's the world was long, time ago, in midieval times, when unicorns walked the Earth (Hyborian Age/Middle-Earthian 3rd Age)-type backstory. Even if it comes down to archaeologists digging around the ruins of Daventry type explanations!
Comments
Whats funny is the games actually harshly penalizes you for being generous! You lose points if you buy things with minor treasures. The game rewards you for being greedy, and keeping the treasures!
So greed is good, and violence is only half as good or in some cases morally neutral (goat) as the non-violent approach but still gives you a positive reward in most cases!
Rarely do you get negative impact (points loss) from killing.
Actually Karlavaegen is a Swedish name, it also district in Stockholm where the chancery is located, Karlavaegen or Karlavägen (both spellings are used). Sort of like the Coles using Antwerp to name one of their creatures.
But then you'd need to be less provincial to know these things right?
Any different than these quotes from Roberta (or others involved with the games), from KQ manuals or the intro from KQ6 (where the World of Daventry is actually our own "history" far in Earth's past)?
BTW, you also pointed out in another thread, that "Lorelei Shannon" was 'overthinking things', would you accuse Roberta of doing the same thing?
Note: Peter Spear actually went against Roberta's own view in this situation, by making them 'parallel worlds'.
Also don't forget mentions of historical figures such as Cleopatra, Simon Byrne, William Shakespeare, or Sun Tzu... Or possibly not historic, but thought to be historic, Helen of Troy, to name a few... They also show some kind of connection to Earth's history.
Yes it does, its the manual for the game published by Sierra, used for the copy protection (which you have to at least use to get up the Cliffs of Logic, though the rest is easier to memorize, or you had to have had to have memorized at some point in the past). More than likely you have read it at some point, so yes it was still part of the KQ experience...
Oh, and for the Companion, did you know even Roberta herself said that it was part of the complete KQ experience?
You can disagree with her if you want to, but she was the Mother of the series, and her views means something, even more so.
But again, please move away from talking about the Companion, and get back to the point of this thread... Who wants some kind of pack in material, be it a guidebook, a short story, etc...
Now if you don't want anything like that, make your peace, state you don't, and then move on... No point in repeating yourself over and over like a broken record...
Yes, I agree, Chyron coming into "My" thread, and calling KQ8 "not a core game" of the series, was hijacking my thread! I have the right to disagree with that point, or show the facts where he was wrong once he brought it to bare however (he has a right to not like the game if only if its an informed dislike, just not base his dislike on a false and misleading premise).
Bt
It's not about killing, it's about combat. USE DAGGER ON DRAGON is not combat.
Actually Chyron, Roberta didn't see much difference (and it was some of those KQ1 'killings' that inspired the KQ8 combat);
Note: This doesn't mean you have to like the 'combat', but it at least makes it clear where Roberta was getting her inspiration.
It also reflects her policy to include myths and legends in the story. In this case she was taking inspiration from such diverse places as Tolkien, Arthurian (Arthur and Lancelot), Jason and the Golden Fleece, and even Star Wars. The 'Epic', where war, fighting and killing monsters is part of the story.
According to Mark Seibert it was also inspired by the combat at the end of KQ6;
Bt
Let the KQ8 stuff go, man. Or create a KQ8/Mask of Eternity Thunderdome thread where you can talk about this endlessly.
We're talking about Derek Karlavelveeta here, and how unimportant to King's Quest he is.
Bt
Oh man...hoo boy...oh that was a good laugh. *wipes tears*
Hehehe, anyways, I actually think something fun could be down with Derek in a game of his own, actually. Now *he* could be a good spin-off candidate, whatwith being already semi-incorporated into the world, and an explorer as well.
Bt
I do think he'd be a good protagonist for a Quest spin off. He's out to catalog and write about lands in the world of Daventry and gets sucked into his own adventure. I would pay for that, actually.
Bt
I prefer Roberta's the world was long, time ago, in midieval times, when unicorns walked the Earth (Hyborian Age/Middle-Earthian 3rd Age)-type backstory. Even if it comes down to archaeologists digging around the ruins of Daventry type explanations!
Then there is the 'sierra town' idea,
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30125
BTW, does anyone know if its possible to access this easter egg in KQ1 (these are from the game script)?