The King's Quest 8: Mask of Eternity thread
As many threads are becoming all about KQ8 and are derailing into arguments about it, I figured I'd make a thread just for the discussion of the game, debates about it, etc, so that it's all in one thread and doesn't spread to others.
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I found one of the only captures of the old KQ8:MOE forums, and a capture of the main King's Quest forums on Sierra's defuct website. It's interesting to note that in the forums Sierra officially listed the game as King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity.
This forum was up for a while it it was shut down in the mid 2000s, when Sierra closed. These archive captures are from about 2004.
King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity at the Sierra Forums
King's Quest Sierra Forums
Also another detail I discovered was on the official KQ8 website;
King's Quest: Mask of Eternity website
One may notice that the browser tab for the page is listed as KQ8: Mask of Eternity.
If you hover the cursor over the headers of each page, you get popup message like this;
If you go into some of the information on the website as well, there are references from Mark Seibert and links to interviews where he calls the game King's Quest 8 as well.
So Sierra was actively advertising the game as King's Quest 8 at the time.
Also an interesting bit of trivia is that in the game files there are two folder groups in each level folder, that are named ''8Bit'' and ''8Gui''. This is a nod to the game being KQ8. The first folder holds the 16-bit bitmap artwork textures, and the second folder holds the 'graphical user interface' files.
It's a bit a myth when fans lie and make the false claim that "Sierra never considered this game "KQ8"", or that it was a 'spinoff'. When in fact they were advertising it as KQ8 all over the place (and it even exists in the files).
To this day Roberta Williams and Ken Williams still refer to it as King's Quest 8/VIII.
It's interesting to note that the choice to leave off the number on boxart, is shared with other games produced between 1990 and 1998 such as The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery (aka GK2), Quest For Glory: Shadows of Darkness (aka QFG4), The Lost Secret of the Rainforest (EcoQuest 2), Police Quest: Open Season (aka PQ4), Police Quest: SWAT (PQ5), Police Quest: SWAT 2 (PQ6), etc.
The latest release even;
Above all of that, it is an indisputable fact that the official title of the game, at the time it was released, was King's Quest: Mask of Eternity.
I do consider it a spin-off of the main series -- not even because of the name, but because of the content. Clearly, it has almost nothing to do with the King's Quest story, save for a few passing references to King Graham and Daventry. I'm not going to be one of those revisionist people who say "it sucks so therefore it is non-canon." It was made by Roberta/Sierra and therefore it is canon. But I don't consider it to be one of the seven core games in the King's Quest series. The fact that they dropped the "VIII" from the title before launch suggests that Sierra considered it a spin-off as well.
There is no such thing as 'semi-official', there is just 'official'. Also these are the descriptions that appear after the game's release as well, btw. They exist both before and after the game's release. Infact, the game was marketed as both King's Quest: Mask of Eternity (title) and KQ8 (abbreviation) and King's Quest VII/King's Quest 8 (description) both before and after the release. This is a fact. Infact, Sierra released initial copies in the US with a gold seal that listed either King's Quest 8, or it being the "Eighth game of the Series".
You can see the seal here, but its unreadable (unfortunately), but I had it on my original box (which I unfortunately no longer possess after several moves);
There were even releases of the game patches to fix the bugs in the game that had KQ8 in the file description.
It was never considered a 'spinoff' to think otherwise is living a to lie to onceself see 1984's doublespeak'
Ignoranz (ingorance) in the German definition: Someone's conscious decision to ignore the facts - usually that's a facet of arrogance (or, less often, stupidity). It's more a description of attitude than state. Not knowing is only the result of it. In any case, you cannot be innocent of "Ignoranz".
Yes, King's Quest: Mask of Eternity is the official box title, but KQ8, KQVIII or King's Quest VII, or 8, or "eighth game of the series" are official 'abbreviations" or descriptions for the game.
It's no different than Quest For Glory: Shadows of Darkness having the abbreviation QFG4 or described as Quest For Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness, or Police Quest: Open Season having the abbreviation PQ4 or description Police Quest IV: Open Season.
Or Lost Secret of the Rainforest, having the abbreviation EQ2 or described as EcoQuest 2...
Also remember The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery, has the abbreviation GK2 or description of Gabriel Knight 2...
The two Laura Bow games The Colonel's Bequest, and The Dagger of Amon Ra, have the abbreviations of LB1 and LB2 or descriptions of Laura Bow 1 or Laura Bow 2.
Leisure Suit Larry series did this as well the second game is called, "Leisure Suit Larry Goes Looking for Love (in Several Wrong Places)", but is officially abbreviated as LSL2, or described as Leisure Suit Larry 2.
You can go on and on with many of the Sierra series leaving out the 'numeral' in at least one sequel for whatever reasons.
Sierra did this sort of thing in many series. The reasoning behind it is unknown.
You can find it in modern series as well;
One modern example by Activision. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is also just called Modern Warfare 2 in the title screen of the game. The series went back to calling the third game Call of Duty: MW3 (Modern Warfare 3)
Enterprise (later Star Trek: Enterprise) still a Star Trek series, even though they chose to leave off the IP title early in the series. All seasons DVD releases were later remarketed as Star Trek: Enterprise to clarify things.
Bt
I like you, you obviously love KQ but...KEEP ALL YOUR KQ8/MASK OF ETERNITY CRAP IN HERE PLEASE!
I made this thread for you and others to debate about KQ8, deliberately, so that it wouldn't seep into other threads and turn them into bitter arguments. I thought it might be a fun, perhaps thought provoking thread.
Baggins, you are derailing thread after thread and turning all of them into KQ8 bitchfests and being incredibly pedantic about whether KQ8 is KQ8. Your arguments are closely bordering on the absurd and accusing others who disagree with you of being "thought police" or referencing 1984 is something even more paranoid than I could ever come up with!
If someone doesn't agree with you, that is their right, even if you feel they are wrong. I like KQ8 myself but I both understand, recognize, and respect that other people don't and that other people don't accept it as "KQ8" or even as a KQ game. Everyone has goddamn different opinions.
The more you push yours down other people's throat, the more they'll be LESS inclined to view KQ8 as KQ8; The more inclined they will be to both continue hating the game, and also come to ignore ANYTHING you say, whether it be on KQ8 or anything else. There's debate, there's argument, there's persuasion, and then there's just shoving your opinion down someone's throat and you're doing the latter.
You want to take up the sword and fight for KQ8? Do it without jamming your opinions in people's faces or trying to make them feel stupid if they disagree with you. Just politely disagree and state your views. The KQ series, or ANY game series, isn't life or death, it isn't religion, it isn't war--Stop treating people like it is.
And please, please, please, keep anything about KQ8 HERE. Not in every single thread on this forum. Like I said, I like you, but turning every thread into an argument over KQ8 is making this forum unpleasant, making discussion tense and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.
I learned the hard way that you can't force people to think as you do, or agree with you. Some people will agree with you, other's won't. You can't pound on people to make them agree with you; They'll just ignore or dislike you and look on you poorly. And then others will come to disregard you totally, in every discussion, even when you say something of merit. And take it from me, you don't want that.
You can hold your opinion on something, and state it, and you have every right to hold whatever opinion, but don't insult the intelligence of other people if they disagree. Look at Lambonius. He generally dislikes TSL, right? He knows it, so do Cesar and Katie. But he has stated and restated his disdain for the game in a polite and often humorous way, and as such, he hasn't alienated them as far as I know. On the other hand, I took the route you're taking--and as a result found myself disliked by a lot of people, and barred from a part of the community I loved.
At the end of the day, all these games were made with the spirit of fun, to be enjoyed, to create a sense of enjoyment and lightness and escapism. They were made so others could have FUN. Arguing over them like it's War and Peace is the exact opposite of what these games are all about.
Anakin care to explain why you broke the forum guidlines not to create a new thread about KQ8 when one already exists? Why did you redundantly create a thread topic like one you already created?
King's Quest 8
Infact, you have broken this policy at least three times!
Here is one of your earliest "KQ8 Threads" found the link in the one above!
[url]Do you like KQ8: Mask of Eternity?[/url]
Or maybe;
A KQ8 Remake
So much for you keeping KQ8 in one thread! Irony much? Hypocricy, pot calling the kettle black, and casting your stones first?
Maybe you should follow your own advice? Not that I'd advocate telling you to 'shut up', and not talk about KQ8, or command you 'put it all in one thread'... But maybe you should not create three or more threads to discuss the topic, before you tell others to 'shut up' or to 'keep their crap in one place'?
I have brought these threads to life, so that you may remember them (and maybe they will be merged or whatever the policy is).
However, I think "KQ8 Remake" thread is valid under its own discussion (again why I wouldn't argue about trying to force you or the topic into internment in one thread).
This is a direct but light dig at your post Anakin, and I'm unashamed to admit that (what follows, the first three paragraphs are taken from your quotes!
As many threads always seem to end up mentioning TSL and are derailing into arguments about it, I figured I'd make a thread just for the discussion of the game, debates about it, etc, so that it's all in one thread and doesn't spread to others.
I like you, you obviously love KQ but...KEEP ALL YOUR TSL CRAP IN HERE PLEASE!
And please, please, please, keep anything about TSL HERE. Not in every single thread on this forum. Like I said, I like you, but turning every thread into an argument over TSL is making this forum unpleasant, making discussion tense and I'm sure I am not the only one who feels this way.
P.S. I don't actually support restricting discussions to one thread, if that subject actually relates to the thread at hand... I.E. for example if someone asks "what is your favorite character', Connor from KQ8 may come up or even Shadrack from TSL. Likewise if someone talks about KQ game with QFG like elements, obviously a mention of KQ8 will have merit...