For me a modern and more adult kings quest would contain
1) Survival horror elements - which in a kings quest game means running away from monsters like in amnesia the dark descent and using your ingenuity + puzzle elements to elude them; like witch from kq1 or troll and donkey etc
2) Plenty of lighter elements to offset the dark parts; classic fairy tales but with the original grimm elements
3) Plenty of puzzles but in a modern seamless 3d world to explore; kings quest 1 was at the time the equivalent to skyrim today.
4) Game should not allow combat as in rpg but only puzzles to resolve problems
What the fuck does MORE ADULT mean? Adults were playing these games back in 1990.... I hate that goddamn saying "More Adult"!
Bt
Come on, Bt--you should know by now that when someone says "more adult," they really mean "more appealing to teenagers" who don't have the attention span or intellectual maturity to appreciate a light-hearted story and world on its own merits without thinking that it's "too kiddy."
Okay, well...so far we've got King's Quest: The Open World Survival Horror Action RPG. Are you guys seriously unaware of how hilariously stupid that sounds??
Why do people keep insisting that using an inventory item on a monster to solve a puzzle in a graphic adventure is the same thing as combat in an action game?
"Graham encountered this dragon in the Dragon's Lair. From across the cave, the heat of the sulphurous flames singed Graham's hair. The dragon made half-rushes back and forth at him, taking its time before making a killer charge. Graham tested the balance of his dagger, knowing he had only one chance to strike the dragon in its heart. In order to distract the dragon to give himself more time to aim and a clearer target, he hefted a bucket of water, and just as the dragon exhaled , he flung the water into its snout. He had extinquished the dragon's flames, it stopped and sputtered, steam and bubles gurgling form its nostrils. Graham stayed the dagger in his hand, seeing the look of embarrasment on the dragon's monstrous face. It dropped its head, and tucked its tail, and the beast pushed a boulder aside and pussyfooted out of the cave."-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part I.
"Graham had intended to kill the snake using a magic sword he had received from a genie. He knew the weapon would rid him of the the menace. Graham was more of a fencer than a hack-and-slash type who triumphs through brute strength. He knew to dispatch the snake would take only a flick of his wrist, a flick of a moment. However, Graham had forgotten about the Leather Bridle he had draped over the sword's hilt. With a swift motion King Graham made to grab the hilt and swung the blade through the air, so to slice the head from the serpent's body. His hand grabbed the bridle's silver bit instead, and still thinking he held a sword, he flicked it through the air. In surprise, Graham let go of the bridle, and he threw the bridle at the snake by mistake.-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part II.
"Graham encountered this dragon in the Dragon's Lair. From across the cave, the heat of the sulphurous flames singed Graham's hair. The dragon made half-rushes back and forth at him, taking its time before making a killer charge. Graham tested the balance of his dagger, knowing he had only one chance to strike the dragon in its heart. In order to distract the dragon to give himself more time to aim and a clearer target, he hefted a bucket of water, and just as the dragon exhaled , he flung the water into its snout. He had extinquished the dragon's flames, it stopped and sputtered, steam and bubles gurgling form its nostrils. Graham stayed the dagger in his hand, seeing the look of embarrasment on the dragon's monstrous face. It dropped its head, and tucked its tail, and the beast pushed a boulder aside and pussyfooted out of the cave."-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part I.
"What would you do, dear reader, if confronted that quickly by such a monster whilst stupidly looking at a pie, instead of looking out for danger? What Graham did was totally reflexive; startled, he jumped at the roar and flung what was in his hand in the direction of the attack. The king's aim is good, it always has been. The custard pie splatted squarely in the yeti's face. The creature, literally, never knew what hit it, and with vision totally obscured by the gooey filling, it stepped off the cliff's edge... "Did I really do that?" he asked the heavens. Shaking his head in befuddlement...."-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part V.
In 2002 though, developers thought about making Graham a Link-like action hero in one version of King's Quest IX;
In 2002 though, developers thought about making Graham a Link-like action hero in one version of King's Quest IX;
The sad and mind-boggling part is that that seems to be exactly what some people want, according to the posts in this thread. Where is my Picard facepalm mosaic when I need it?
Part of its satire on the silly or obscure puzzle solutions in the KQ series. in that the solution that is probably the most likely, is often the lesser of two choices! ...or its a solution that most people aren't going to think of at all.
If I had a penny for every article that makes fun of the 'cheese' in the machine solution!
Actually the hintbooks written by Roberta and others sometimes poked fun at the solutions too, LOL.
I think for me, it belittles the crisis at hand. Like how in KG5 Graham acts as if his family being captured happens everyday and his dialog and
VA , not to mention his actions don't match the situation.
I don't know if it makes sense or if I worded it correctly...
What you are trying to say in KQ5, how the dialogue in the game, doesn't quite match up with the situation described.
Graham is mostly upbeat, and helpful, and happy go lucky, even though the narration claims he should be in extremely sad over the situation. There are a couple of lines in KQ5 when looking at Graham or at a bird in the game where the game describes Graham being in extreme remorse. But you never see that in the game! Infact, he even seems to crack a few jokes at Cedric's expense in a few places.
Yes, but none of those creatures seem to hold it against Graham -- they all show up for his wedding at the end of KQ II!
Gaming after 40;
Other than the fairy godmother, the giant, the dragon, the leprechaun, the dwarf, enchanter/sorcerer, most of the people at the wedding are from KQ2 (or in both)! You can only kill the giant and dragon in KQ1, out of that bunch.
Graham didn't do a good job of killing Dracula, . Man, that giant cross must be painful to him .
I think for me, it belittles the crisis at hand. Like how in KG5 Graham acts as if his family being captured happens everyday and his dialog and VA , not to mention his actions don't match the situation.
I don't know if it makes sense or if I worded it correctly...
You got your point across. I always think that's one of the hardest things to deal with in balancing storytelling and gameplay in adventure games -- for dramatic purposes, you want to keep the pressure on, but if you make the solutions too obvious for the sake of keeping the story moving, the gameplay suffers. Puzzles that are TOO esoteric make everything grind to a halt, draining emotion from the events, but if they're too easy then it doesn't seem like much of a game.
Linear dramatic storytelling can usually take the simple way out -- "Suddenly, Buck remembers he has the Maggdar Crystal stashed in his Hooblefritz! With great precision, he thrusts it into the prison chamber's lock! The Moon Beast staggers back in surprise as Buck invades the Sanctum of Evil to rescue Queen Bea!"
But when there's a player involved, it necessarily has to play as, "Buck wanders around the room and looks at various things, while Queen Bea's screams echo through the chamber, though no more urgently than they did two minutes ago when the crisis began. Buck returns to the entryway briefly and scans the floor and walls for tiny sparkling objects. Finding nothing tangible or suggestive of a solution to the problem, he opens his Hooblefritz and ponders the wide array of items he has collected during his travels. 'Perhaps this one will do something unexpected and save the day', he thinks, as he fondles the Froomnana and presses it up against the prison bars. Then he tries doing the same with the broom, the Maggdar Crystal and the latex appliance instead. Nope, no luck there. He thinks, 'What if I insert the Froomnana into the socket on the wall?' And is then disappointed in the result. But he resolves to try it again, using the Maggdar Crystal, which come to think of it, resembles the shape of the keyhole. If he only he had thought of this sooner! Fortunately, the Moon Beast has not actually made any progress towards his nefarious nefariousnesses."
Other than the fairy godmother, the giant, the dragon, the leprechaun, the dwarf, enchanter/sorcerer, most of the people at the wedding are from KQ2 (or in both)! You can only kill the giant and dragon in KQ1, out of that bunch.
Graham didn't do a good job of killing Dracula, . Man, that giant cross must be painful to him .
Hee-hee... I should have gone back and looked at my own notes! I wrote:
When Graham and Valanice marry, everyone's at the wedding. The guest list even includes several characters whom Graham has previously murdered in cold blood, including Dracula and the Giant and Dragon from KQ1. I guess everybody loves a royal wedding!
And I COMPLETELY failed to make a joke about the giant cross! Hats off to you!
I mentioned a few games that made the transition to 3D with major success (GTA, Final Fantasy, MGS etc) so I'm sure having most classic elements minus the moon logic/unwinnable situations and a bit more serious tone would not be such a bad thing no?
I mentioned a few games that made the transition to 3D with major success (GTA, Final Fantasy, MGS etc) so I'm sure having most classic elements minus the moon logic/unwinnable situations and a bit more serious tone would not be such a bad thing no?
You cannot dramatically change the tone of the game and have it be considered a successful transition. The vast majority of games that successfully transitioned into 3D and are now considered classics gained that status precisely BECAUSE the original tone of the series remained intact. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, just to name 3 biggies, were amazing in 3D because they still "felt" exactly like the original games, just in 3D (and therefore better! Or so goes late 90s logic.)
If you change the tone of the game world, what other "classic elements" are even worth keeping? Put another way, the whole reason Mask of Eternity is considered a failure in most fans' eyes is because it didn't "feel" like a King's Quest game. And a HUGE part of that is they darkened the tone and took out most of the humor (among many other things.)
I think for me, it belittles the crisis at hand. Like how in KG5 Graham acts as if his family being captured happens everyday and his dialog and
VA , not to mention his actions don't match the situation.
I don't know if it makes sense or if I worded it correctly...
Well, contrary to popular opinion, it's not really acceptable to go around sulking about your problems and blabbing them to everybody as if they care. He's not an emo blogger. He is a man of integrity. He knows that you have to remain respectable (not only in speech but in behaviour) and that any act of sympathy and kindness towards him in the form of help in his plight would only be as reciprocation. I think his reactions were perfectly fine. It's not like he needs to stop and have a cry all the time and grieve saying "woe is me". He's a man. He's out to get the job done. Sitting around crying isn't going to solve that!
I hate movies and games nowadays because they make that seem like the normal reaction people should have. Everything's so emotional. I'm not against emotion, but there's...so much. EVERYTHING is emotional. It's stupid and unrealistic. Excessive.
If you change the tone of the game world, what other "classic elements" are even worth keeping? Put another way, the whole reason Mask of Eternity is considered a failure in most fans' eyes is because it didn't "feel" like a King's Quest game. And a HUGE part of that is they darkened the tone and took out most of the humor (among many other things.)
Putting a bit more seriousness (I stress "a bit") into the story / world with the rest of the elements that we have come to associate with the series does not equal a clone of MoE.
I don't think my suggestion is too extreme... the stress is still on item hunting / puzzling and exploring the realm of Daventry, not action. Hell, action (in the MoE sense) won't even have to be an integral part of the game.
Well, contrary to popular opinion, it's not really acceptable to go around sulking about your problems and blabbing them to everybody as if they care. He's not an emo blogger. He is a man of integrity. He knows that you have to remain respectable (not only in speech but in behaviour) and that any act of sympathy and kindness towards him in the form of help in his plight would only be as reciprocation. I think his reactions were perfectly fine. It's not like he needs to stop and have a cry all the time and grieve saying "woe is me". He's a man. He's out to get the job done. Sitting around crying isn't going to solve that!
I hate movies and games nowadays because they make that seem like the normal reaction people should have. Everything's so emotional. I'm not against emotion, but there's...so much. EVERYTHING is emotional. It's stupid and unrealistic. Excessive.
I agree; but in KQ5 I felt NO emotion at all. Plotwise it was weaker than KQ6 (it had more depth with characters and story).
Probably more like 50/50 of the fans eyes ... Or we wouldn't have nearly this many arguements...
I hate movies and games nowadays because they make that seem like the normal reaction people should have. Everything's so emotional. I'm not against emotion, but there's...so much. EVERYTHING is emotional. It's stupid and unrealistic. Excessive.
I agree; but in KQ5 I felt NO emotion at all. Plotwise it was weaker than KQ6 (it had more depth with characters and story).
That's where I disagree. KQ6 was indeed more polished and better presented, but KQ5 is much more interesting to me. That shouldn't be the case if it has no emotion at all. You can chalk that up to bad voice acting for the most part if you wish, but I can still derive some emotion from it. Enough to make it matter.
Actually I honestly think the non-talkie version was better at projecting emotion than the cd version. The descriptions were sometimes a bit more detailed too.
Come on Blackthorne and Lambonius; don't put words in peoples mouths. Kings quest has always been a child friendly series; however most series fans are now grown up.
The dialogue was cringe worthy and a lot of the material was simply presented because of the technology - but I don't hold it against it (the power of nostalgia, and innovative for the time.)
Most of the traditional audience has grown up so as the publisher you have a choice, make a child friendly game like nintendo with in-joke nods to the adults playing, or put a more adult spin on it. Honestly I would be fine with both but way to jump down someone's throat! Not cool man, not cool at all :mad:
Is your goal to bully anyone who doesn't agree with you because that's how you came off Blackthorne
No, I'm not bullying anyone who has a different opinion. I'm merely stating why I find their opinion to be sophomoric and idiotic. They can take it however they want; it's easy to write someone off, especially on the internet - when we're talking about a video game. I'm not saying they're a bad person, but I am saying I wholeheartedly disagree with their myopic vision.
If they can let me make them feel bad about their opinion, they obviously do not have the courage to back their conviction.
"Enfant Provocateur likes to stir up trouble because...because, well...just because. This species of Flame Warrior is almost always young and male - it could be just a hormone thing."
Perhaps it's because so many have submitted this same opinion on "adult-ifying" King's Quest without any real solid backing arguments that it's easy to get fed up with it after so long? I mean honestly, it's not worth having a real conversation, or worth submitting your opinion, if you don't fully understand your own reasons for your opinion other than "I want it", or you don't fully understand where the opposing argument is deriving their reasoning from, no matter how hard they delicately and carefully try to portray it. It's not bullying. It's frustration with the same old thing that is still, after all this time and all these people who have brought it up, without any substance. I haven't seen Lamb or Bt talk down to anybody. Ever. It's moreso been calling people out on their lackluster logic for their opinions.
No opinion is wrong, but if you're going to try to convince others of it you need to have something more than "King's Quest was for kids". No, it wasn't. That's a fact. Or "Making King's Quest modern by making it gritty and serious is the only direction it should go." Why is that exactly? Because that's what everybody else is doing? No. Forcing King's Quest to categorically fit into present day game development strategies is the most anti-King's Quest thing you could do.
King's Quest wasn't just a little simple series of games with colourful backgrounds and childish nuances (at least, not once it really started going around KQ3), it stood for something. It was family-oriented, yes, but it was not childish. It had far more depth than a lot of people here are giving it credit for, I think. And by submitting suggestions like making it more gritty, serious, and emotional is replacing that depth with something far more shallow, which people mistakenly take as depth.
By my original post I just thought that an up-to-date kings quest would be using the latest technology like they did in the day. Also by adult I am meaning something different here than what you guys are thinking obviously. More along the lines of having better dialogue, atmosphere, effects and setting. Details, details, details, early kings quest was not fleshed out as well as it could have been.
As a side note -
This is what I mean about putting words in peoples mouths. An adult would seek to clarify politely what was meant by the term before spouting off at that person. They would also not assume a whole bunch of stuff based on a single word in a sentence. So yeah a kings quest as a first person shooter, I'm not suggesting that
- funny that!
MusicallyInspired, of course the games were meant for families, just because I suggest a sort of game reboot that I would like does not mean you can't have your idea also. They are not mutually exclusive. I guess the two snow whites in cinema right now is the sort of contrast you imagine. There's not the gap you think there is between what is being espoused by me, you and others.
As a note I think this is demonstrative of why the kings quest franchise has stayed buried for so long. I accept and respect your opinions and your right to have them. I just do not feel like writing an essay to elucidate mine. Maybe it requires imagining something different beyond your preconceptions around what I and others have written? In my post my Amnesia reference was more for the primal sense of dread if you encounter a wolf in the forest. It can be fun to explore new mechanics and a reboot should attempt to do that while staying true to the tone if possible. Maybe climb a tree or hide in bushes using a stealth mechanic or lose the scent by crossing the river until the wolf passes. It would be great if kings quest was again a technology leader!
That primal sense of dread was a key component of kings quest at least for the first 4 iterations.
Also something I think that was missing from later kings quests to a degree. I also advocated puzzle solving and a fully realised world. I did not mention gritty, I didn't say childish etc etc. I think I'm agreeing with Sleeq here mostly, but I would keep humour in it.
I refuse to play The Silver Lining. I will not. ever. play it. I played the demo of the first chapter, and was not impressed.
The Silver Lining is the exact sort of "more adult" King's Quest that you're talking about... and from what I've played and what I've heard, it's just so many shades of wrong.
Many people who were children when first playing The Secret of Monkey Island are also adults now; myself among them. I did like Tales of Monkey Island, and thought the darker parts (ie. the middle to end of Chapter 4 and near the end of Chapter 5) were good, but I wouldn't call it "more adult." I wouldn't want to to be so either.
...and @Baggins, I'm not interested in reading these long-ass quotes by people who try to say that KQ games have combat.
It's simple: action + item + "on" + obstacle = solution
obstacle = Monster A
item = object A; object B; object C
IF player chooses object A THEN obstacle flees;
IF player chooses object B THEN obstacle dies.
It's not combat. It's death-by-puzzle.
In any case, at this point I've reiterated myself so many times that I'm not sure if you either just totally miss my point or else are being difficult on purpose.
Is there something in the water, is it spreading? When did I say I liked the silver lining?? I don't, they took way too many liberties with the characters and the conversations were way too wordy. Too many locations reused from kq6 etc.
That's not what I envisage, try to imagine kings quest done in 3d right like in a storybook, but the main characters have better choice of wardrobe and the puzzles and fairy tales are better fleshed out and your getting closer. Hell if it is in 2d that would still be cool, hmmm, my choice of words is perhaps poor. Perhaps I should simply say I want a more sophisticated kings quest now yes. Replace adult with sophisticated and that about sums it up.
Through to my mind they mean the same thing; Ach! The internet is a dangerous place for the unweary poster...
By my original post I just thought that an up-to-date kings quest would be using the latest technology like they did in the day. Also by adult I am meaning something different here than what you guys are thinking obviously. More along the lines of having better dialogue, atmosphere, effects and setting.
I wasn't even referring to anything you've said. I was commenting on what many others have come on here to express and defending Lamb and Bt's stance.
As a side note -
This is what I mean about putting words in peoples mouths. An adult would seek to clarify politely what was meant by the term before spouting off at that person. So yeah a kings quest as a first person shooter, I'm not suggesting that
- funny that!
MusicallyInspired, of course the games were meant for families, just because I suggest a sort of game reboot that I would like does not mean you can't have your idea also. They are not mutually exclusive. I guess the two snow whites in cinema right now is the sort of contrast you imagine. There's not the gap you think there is between what is being espoused by me, you and others.
I don't think I was putting words in you or anyone's mouths, if I did I apologize and please correct me. But again, I said I wasn't referring to anything you specifically stated, but rather what others have come on to say throughout time.
As a note I think this is demonstrative of why the kings quest franchise has stayed buried for so long. I accept and respect your opinions and your right to have them. I just do not feel like writing an essay to elucidate mine. Maybe it requires imagining something different beyond your preconceptions around what I and others have written?
This is kind of the line of thought that I was trying to convey for understanding my/our side of the argument. Once more, I wasn't referring to what you were saying specifically, so your opinion was never the target of my point or argument.
In my post my Amnesia reference was more for the primal sense of dread if you encounter a wolf in the forest. It can be fun to explore new mechanics and a reboot should attempt to do that while staying true to the tone if possible. Maybe climb a tree or hide in bushes using a stealth mechanic or lose the scent by crossing the river until the wolf passes.
That primal sense of dread was a key component of kings quest at least for the first 4 iterations.
Very true. I like the way you're comparing what made King's Quest great in the past to some possible gameplay mechanics of today (not necessarily outright design). It's much easier to imagine something by comparing it to what's out on the market today, rather than what it could be all on its own, while drawing merely some ideas from what's out on the market today. Both (all?) sides of the fence(s?) are probably to blame for this to some degree.
Also something I think that was missing from later kings quests to a degree. I also advocated puzzle solving and a fully realised world. I did not mention gritty, I didn't say childish etc etc.
This is a great example of expressing solid reasoning behind opinions (others should take note here). I agree with much of what you've said here. It also shows that you're not in the same camp as the ones some of us are used to dealing with, something others could specify if they indeed are not either.
I think I'm agreeing with Sleeq here mostly, but I would keep humour in it.
Here is where I get confused. Sleeq is talking about what you've said you aren't talking about. At least what I've taken away from what he's said proves as much to me.
All in all, that was a great post that has (to me) finally added something to this horse-beating conversation topic. Good to see some actual thought-out ideas submitted for a possible future idea of a new King's Quest title. I'm definitely not against progressing things. Heck, I'm in the camp of wanting a new Monkey Island game to be realistic in art style and slightly more sinister in tone. Not grey/brown like CoD or anything, but dark when it needs to be dark. With a maintained and rich colour palette of course. I'm just sick of the overly-cartoony look. I rather like how the original SMI looked. Though, I understand that was never how Ron Gilbert invisioned things (with the realistic close-ups).
Also, yeah Chyron, I don't think what he's saying amounts to anything TSL did.
Hey thanks musicallyinspired, that was nice of you
Also FYI, just defending my posts in general for the most part. I still don't follow who said what to who so well in forums, as a rule; it gets confusing very fast. Sorry if I got my wires crossed, and that goes for BlackThorne and Lambonius as well.
With sleeq's comment I was referring to a point he made where he said that a 3d world could still stay faithful. If I read that right, I haven't read all his posts.
...and @Baggins, I'm not interested in reading these long-ass quotes by people who try to say that KQ games have combat.
LOL, obviously you don't read, since you didn't even get the context of the quotes and paraphrases I posted... Your comment/interpretation of the paragraphs you didn't actually read is so off the mark to show your complete and utter ignorance of what I actually posted!
Talk about jumping to conclusions on your part! ...Or assume too much without actually checking out what you are assuming! "Ass out of U and Me"!
That's where I disagree. KQ6 was indeed more polished and better presented, but KQ5 is much more interesting to me. That shouldn't be the case if it has no emotion at all. You can chalk that up to bad voice acting for the most part if you wish, but I can still derive some emotion from it. Enough to make it matter.
I enjoy six alot more but I totally agree with what you've said about five.
Comments
1) Survival horror elements - which in a kings quest game means running away from monsters like in amnesia the dark descent and using your ingenuity + puzzle elements to elude them; like witch from kq1 or troll and donkey etc
2) Plenty of lighter elements to offset the dark parts; classic fairy tales but with the original grimm elements
3) Plenty of puzzles but in a modern seamless 3d world to explore; kings quest 1 was at the time the equivalent to skyrim today.
4) Game should not allow combat as in rpg but only puzzles to resolve problems
My two cents...
Bt
Come on, Bt--you should know by now that when someone says "more adult," they really mean "more appealing to teenagers" who don't have the attention span or intellectual maturity to appreciate a light-hearted story and world on its own merits without thinking that it's "too kiddy."
Okay, well...so far we've got King's Quest: The Open World Survival Horror Action RPG. Are you guys seriously unaware of how hilariously stupid that sounds??
"Graham encountered this dragon in the Dragon's Lair. From across the cave, the heat of the sulphurous flames singed Graham's hair. The dragon made half-rushes back and forth at him, taking its time before making a killer charge. Graham tested the balance of his dagger, knowing he had only one chance to strike the dragon in its heart. In order to distract the dragon to give himself more time to aim and a clearer target, he hefted a bucket of water, and just as the dragon exhaled , he flung the water into its snout. He had extinquished the dragon's flames, it stopped and sputtered, steam and bubles gurgling form its nostrils. Graham stayed the dagger in his hand, seeing the look of embarrasment on the dragon's monstrous face. It dropped its head, and tucked its tail, and the beast pushed a boulder aside and pussyfooted out of the cave."-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part I.
"Graham had intended to kill the snake using a magic sword he had received from a genie. He knew the weapon would rid him of the the menace. Graham was more of a fencer than a hack-and-slash type who triumphs through brute strength. He knew to dispatch the snake would take only a flick of his wrist, a flick of a moment. However, Graham had forgotten about the Leather Bridle he had draped over the sword's hilt. With a swift motion King Graham made to grab the hilt and swung the blade through the air, so to slice the head from the serpent's body. His hand grabbed the bridle's silver bit instead, and still thinking he held a sword, he flicked it through the air. In surprise, Graham let go of the bridle, and he threw the bridle at the snake by mistake.-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part II.
And your point is?
"What would you do, dear reader, if confronted that quickly by such a monster whilst stupidly looking at a pie, instead of looking out for danger? What Graham did was totally reflexive; startled, he jumped at the roar and flung what was in his hand in the direction of the attack. The king's aim is good, it always has been. The custard pie splatted squarely in the yeti's face. The creature, literally, never knew what hit it, and with vision totally obscured by the gooey filling, it stepped off the cliff's edge... "Did I really do that?" he asked the heavens. Shaking his head in befuddlement...."-From the Chronicles of Daventry, Part V.
In 2002 though, developers thought about making Graham a Link-like action hero in one version of King's Quest IX;
Development didn't go very far though.
The sad and mind-boggling part is that that seems to be exactly what some people want, according to the posts in this thread. Where is my Picard facepalm mosaic when I need it?
Reading those excerpts makes it sound really bad. "Did I really do that?" Is that what a king would say? Why does he have to be so helpless or aloof?
If I had a penny for every article that makes fun of the 'cheese' in the machine solution!
Actually the hintbooks written by Roberta and others sometimes poked fun at the solutions too, LOL.
But to what purpose? Just for the sake of doing it? What makes the light-hearted tone in need of changing?
VA , not to mention his actions don't match the situation.
I don't know if it makes sense or if I worded it correctly...
Yes, but none of those creatures seem to hold it against Graham -- they all show up for his wedding at the end of KQ II!
Graham is mostly upbeat, and helpful, and happy go lucky, even though the narration claims he should be in extremely sad over the situation. There are a couple of lines in KQ5 when looking at Graham or at a bird in the game where the game describes Graham being in extreme remorse. But you never see that in the game! Infact, he even seems to crack a few jokes at Cedric's expense in a few places. Gaming after 40;
Other than the fairy godmother, the giant, the dragon, the leprechaun, the dwarf, enchanter/sorcerer, most of the people at the wedding are from KQ2 (or in both)! You can only kill the giant and dragon in KQ1, out of that bunch.
Graham didn't do a good job of killing Dracula,
You got your point across. I always think that's one of the hardest things to deal with in balancing storytelling and gameplay in adventure games -- for dramatic purposes, you want to keep the pressure on, but if you make the solutions too obvious for the sake of keeping the story moving, the gameplay suffers. Puzzles that are TOO esoteric make everything grind to a halt, draining emotion from the events, but if they're too easy then it doesn't seem like much of a game.
Linear dramatic storytelling can usually take the simple way out -- "Suddenly, Buck remembers he has the Maggdar Crystal stashed in his Hooblefritz! With great precision, he thrusts it into the prison chamber's lock! The Moon Beast staggers back in surprise as Buck invades the Sanctum of Evil to rescue Queen Bea!"
But when there's a player involved, it necessarily has to play as, "Buck wanders around the room and looks at various things, while Queen Bea's screams echo through the chamber, though no more urgently than they did two minutes ago when the crisis began. Buck returns to the entryway briefly and scans the floor and walls for tiny sparkling objects. Finding nothing tangible or suggestive of a solution to the problem, he opens his Hooblefritz and ponders the wide array of items he has collected during his travels. 'Perhaps this one will do something unexpected and save the day', he thinks, as he fondles the Froomnana and presses it up against the prison bars. Then he tries doing the same with the broom, the Maggdar Crystal and the latex appliance instead. Nope, no luck there. He thinks, 'What if I insert the Froomnana into the socket on the wall?' And is then disappointed in the result. But he resolves to try it again, using the Maggdar Crystal, which come to think of it, resembles the shape of the keyhole. If he only he had thought of this sooner! Fortunately, the Moon Beast has not actually made any progress towards his nefarious nefariousnesses."
Hee-hee... I should have gone back and looked at my own notes! I wrote:
When Graham and Valanice marry, everyone's at the wedding. The guest list even includes several characters whom Graham has previously murdered in cold blood, including Dracula and the Giant and Dragon from KQ1. I guess everybody loves a royal wedding!
And I COMPLETELY failed to make a joke about the giant cross! Hats off to you!
Bt
You cannot dramatically change the tone of the game and have it be considered a successful transition. The vast majority of games that successfully transitioned into 3D and are now considered classics gained that status precisely BECAUSE the original tone of the series remained intact. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, just to name 3 biggies, were amazing in 3D because they still "felt" exactly like the original games, just in 3D (and therefore better! Or so goes late 90s logic.)
If you change the tone of the game world, what other "classic elements" are even worth keeping? Put another way, the whole reason Mask of Eternity is considered a failure in most fans' eyes is because it didn't "feel" like a King's Quest game. And a HUGE part of that is they darkened the tone and took out most of the humor (among many other things.)
Well, contrary to popular opinion, it's not really acceptable to go around sulking about your problems and blabbing them to everybody as if they care. He's not an emo blogger. He is a man of integrity. He knows that you have to remain respectable (not only in speech but in behaviour) and that any act of sympathy and kindness towards him in the form of help in his plight would only be as reciprocation. I think his reactions were perfectly fine. It's not like he needs to stop and have a cry all the time and grieve saying "woe is me". He's a man. He's out to get the job done. Sitting around crying isn't going to solve that!
I hate movies and games nowadays because they make that seem like the normal reaction people should have. Everything's so emotional. I'm not against emotion, but there's...so much. EVERYTHING is emotional. It's stupid and unrealistic. Excessive.
Putting a bit more seriousness (I stress "a bit") into the story / world with the rest of the elements that we have come to associate with the series does not equal a clone of MoE.
I don't think my suggestion is too extreme... the stress is still on item hunting / puzzling and exploring the realm of Daventry, not action. Hell, action (in the MoE sense) won't even have to be an integral part of the game.
I agree; but in KQ5 I felt NO emotion at all. Plotwise it was weaker than KQ6 (it had more depth with characters and story).
Probably more like 50/50 of the fans eyes
What do they call men now adays? Metrosexual?
That's where I disagree. KQ6 was indeed more polished and better presented, but KQ5 is much more interesting to me. That shouldn't be the case if it has no emotion at all. You can chalk that up to bad voice acting for the most part if you wish, but I can still derive some emotion from it. Enough to make it matter.
The dialogue was cringe worthy and a lot of the material was simply presented because of the technology - but I don't hold it against it (the power of nostalgia, and innovative for the time.)
Most of the traditional audience has grown up so as the publisher you have a choice, make a child friendly game like nintendo with in-joke nods to the adults playing, or put a more adult spin on it. Honestly I would be fine with both but way to jump down someone's throat! Not cool man, not cool at all :mad:
Is your goal to bully anyone who doesn't agree with you because that's how you came off Blackthorne
If they can let me make them feel bad about their opinion, they obviously do not have the courage to back their conviction.
Bt
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/enfantprovocateur.htm
"Enfant Provocateur likes to stir up trouble because...because, well...just because. This species of Flame Warrior is almost always young and male - it could be just a hormone thing."
No opinion is wrong, but if you're going to try to convince others of it you need to have something more than "King's Quest was for kids". No, it wasn't. That's a fact. Or "Making King's Quest modern by making it gritty and serious is the only direction it should go." Why is that exactly? Because that's what everybody else is doing? No. Forcing King's Quest to categorically fit into present day game development strategies is the most anti-King's Quest thing you could do.
King's Quest wasn't just a little simple series of games with colourful backgrounds and childish nuances (at least, not once it really started going around KQ3), it stood for something. It was family-oriented, yes, but it was not childish. It had far more depth than a lot of people here are giving it credit for, I think. And by submitting suggestions like making it more gritty, serious, and emotional is replacing that depth with something far more shallow, which people mistakenly take as depth.
By my original post I just thought that an up-to-date kings quest would be using the latest technology like they did in the day. Also by adult I am meaning something different here than what you guys are thinking obviously. More along the lines of having better dialogue, atmosphere, effects and setting. Details, details, details, early kings quest was not fleshed out as well as it could have been.
As a side note -
This is what I mean about putting words in peoples mouths. An adult would seek to clarify politely what was meant by the term before spouting off at that person. They would also not assume a whole bunch of stuff based on a single word in a sentence. So yeah a kings quest as a first person shooter, I'm not suggesting that
- funny that!
MusicallyInspired, of course the games were meant for families, just because I suggest a sort of game reboot that I would like does not mean you can't have your idea also. They are not mutually exclusive. I guess the two snow whites in cinema right now is the sort of contrast you imagine. There's not the gap you think there is between what is being espoused by me, you and others.
As a note I think this is demonstrative of why the kings quest franchise has stayed buried for so long. I accept and respect your opinions and your right to have them. I just do not feel like writing an essay to elucidate mine. Maybe it requires imagining something different beyond your preconceptions around what I and others have written? In my post my Amnesia reference was more for the primal sense of dread if you encounter a wolf in the forest. It can be fun to explore new mechanics and a reboot should attempt to do that while staying true to the tone if possible. Maybe climb a tree or hide in bushes using a stealth mechanic or lose the scent by crossing the river until the wolf passes. It would be great if kings quest was again a technology leader!
That primal sense of dread was a key component of kings quest at least for the first 4 iterations.
Also something I think that was missing from later kings quests to a degree. I also advocated puzzle solving and a fully realised world. I did not mention gritty, I didn't say childish etc etc. I think I'm agreeing with Sleeq here mostly, but I would keep humour in it.
I refuse to play The Silver Lining. I will not. ever. play it. I played the demo of the first chapter, and was not impressed.
The Silver Lining is the exact sort of "more adult" King's Quest that you're talking about... and from what I've played and what I've heard, it's just so many shades of wrong.
Many people who were children when first playing The Secret of Monkey Island are also adults now; myself among them. I did like Tales of Monkey Island, and thought the darker parts (ie. the middle to end of Chapter 4 and near the end of Chapter 5) were good, but I wouldn't call it "more adult." I wouldn't want to to be so either.
...and @Baggins, I'm not interested in reading these long-ass quotes by people who try to say that KQ games have combat.
It's simple: action + item + "on" + obstacle = solution
obstacle = Monster A
item = object A; object B; object C
IF player chooses object A THEN obstacle flees;
IF player chooses object B THEN obstacle dies.
It's not combat. It's death-by-puzzle.
In any case, at this point I've reiterated myself so many times that I'm not sure if you either just totally miss my point or else are being difficult on purpose.
Is there something in the water, is it spreading? When did I say I liked the silver lining?? I don't, they took way too many liberties with the characters and the conversations were way too wordy. Too many locations reused from kq6 etc.
That's not what I envisage, try to imagine kings quest done in 3d right like in a storybook, but the main characters have better choice of wardrobe and the puzzles and fairy tales are better fleshed out and your getting closer. Hell if it is in 2d that would still be cool, hmmm, my choice of words is perhaps poor. Perhaps I should simply say I want a more sophisticated kings quest now yes. Replace adult with sophisticated and that about sums it up.
Through to my mind they mean the same thing; Ach! The internet is a dangerous place for the unweary poster...
I wasn't even referring to anything you've said. I was commenting on what many others have come on here to express and defending Lamb and Bt's stance.
I don't think I was putting words in you or anyone's mouths, if I did I apologize and please correct me. But again, I said I wasn't referring to anything you specifically stated, but rather what others have come on to say throughout time.
This is kind of the line of thought that I was trying to convey for understanding my/our side of the argument. Once more, I wasn't referring to what you were saying specifically, so your opinion was never the target of my point or argument.
Very true. I like the way you're comparing what made King's Quest great in the past to some possible gameplay mechanics of today (not necessarily outright design). It's much easier to imagine something by comparing it to what's out on the market today, rather than what it could be all on its own, while drawing merely some ideas from what's out on the market today. Both (all?) sides of the fence(s?) are probably to blame for this to some degree.
This is a great example of expressing solid reasoning behind opinions (others should take note here). I agree with much of what you've said here. It also shows that you're not in the same camp as the ones some of us are used to dealing with, something others could specify if they indeed are not either.
Here is where I get confused. Sleeq is talking about what you've said you aren't talking about. At least what I've taken away from what he's said proves as much to me.
All in all, that was a great post that has (to me) finally added something to this horse-beating conversation topic. Good to see some actual thought-out ideas submitted for a possible future idea of a new King's Quest title. I'm definitely not against progressing things. Heck, I'm in the camp of wanting a new Monkey Island game to be realistic in art style and slightly more sinister in tone. Not grey/brown like CoD or anything, but dark when it needs to be dark. With a maintained and rich colour palette of course. I'm just sick of the overly-cartoony look. I rather like how the original SMI looked. Though, I understand that was never how Ron Gilbert invisioned things (with the realistic close-ups).
Also, yeah Chyron, I don't think what he's saying amounts to anything TSL did.
Also FYI, just defending my posts in general for the most part. I still don't follow who said what to who so well in forums, as a rule; it gets confusing very fast. Sorry if I got my wires crossed, and that goes for BlackThorne and Lambonius as well.
With sleeq's comment I was referring to a point he made where he said that a 3d world could still stay faithful. If I read that right, I haven't read all his posts.
Bt
LOL, obviously you don't read, since you didn't even get the context of the quotes and paraphrases I posted... Your comment/interpretation of the paragraphs you didn't actually read is so off the mark to show your complete and utter ignorance of what I actually posted!
Talk about jumping to conclusions on your part! ...Or assume too much without actually checking out what you are assuming! "Ass out of U and Me"!
I enjoy six alot more but I totally agree with what you've said about five.