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Can the Telltale Tool do this for Season 2?

ZeekZeek
edited August 2007 in Sam & Max
So I was looking through my copy of the Sam & Max Sketchbook that came in the mail yesterday (in a rather unusually large box given the size of the book itself), and spent a lot of time on the character model sheets for the duo. It's the cartoonist in me.

Anyway, I noticed that Steve has notes that Max's mouth can disappear whenever he's surprised or thinking. Sam, on the other hand, has the usual "jumping clothing" reaction.

Are either of these possible for Season 2? You had a lot of moments in Season 1 where you could have used these little notes or even adapted them for your tool. I think it would be kind of fun to see Max's mouth disappear momentarily while he thinks of the most violent way to solve the next puzzle in a cut scene.

Comments

  • questionthemajorityquestionthemajority
    edited July 2007
    I agree. It would be nice if you could incorporate some more of the subtle trademark quirks of the Sam & Max animation style. Of course, only the hardcore animation junkies like us will even notice the difference, but that's beside the point.
  • fajerkaosfajerkaos
    edited July 2007
    questionthemajority wrote: »
    I agree. It would be nice if you could incorporate some more of the subtle trademark quirks of the Sam & Max animation style. Of course, only the hardcore animation junkies like us will even notice the difference, but that's beside the point.
    Even if some people might not notice it, they probably still think everything looks cooler somehow.

    I personly would've loved it. More extreme cartoony stuff like that could make the game feel more exciting in my opinion. (no offence)
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited July 2007
    I love that note about Max's mouth disappearing.

    I don't know if it's possible since his mouth is part of his model (Daniel or one of the animators would be better able to answer that). Something I'd love to see in the games would be an idle animation where Sam leans against the wall or the desk and eats a popsicle. :D
  • LaserschwertLaserschwert
    edited July 2007
    I think technically it's should be possible to replace both Sam's and Max' model with ones without mouths "on the fly" during animation... the question is, if this switch would be visible (or too "popping"). After all not everything that works in 2D looks good in 3D.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited July 2007
    Technically many things are possible. Whether or not they'd actually look good or be easy to use when putting things together is a different story.
  • KedriKedri
    edited July 2007
    In a 3D world, implementing a lack of mouth would be a lot harder and more inconsistent, unfortunately. Actually, I don't think it's the 3D, I think it's animation in general. People expect movement. It would be cool if it were possible, though...
  • BarfHappyBarfHappy
    edited July 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    I love that note about Max's mouth disappearing.

    I don't know if it's possible since his mouth is part of his model (Daniel or one of the animators would be better able to answer that). Something I'd love to see in the games would be an idle animation where Sam leans against the wall or the desk and eats a popsicle. :D

    I second that !

    More idling variety is always good :) (just ask emily she has great ideas)
  • ZeekZeek
    edited July 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    I love that note about Max's mouth disappearing.

    I don't know if it's possible since his mouth is part of his model (Daniel or one of the animators would be better able to answer that).
    What about if he just closes his mouth entirely like in a few of the closing cut scenes? You know, like at the end of Episode 1, breifly at the end of episode 2 (the Katie Curret line), and a few other spots.

    Also, do you know if the animators did that "hat brim works as eye brows" note as well? I noticed the hat moves with Sam's brow, but I'm not sure if this is because of just how the character model works in the 3D environment or if that was the animators actually using the animation notes.
  • AdamGAdamG
    edited July 2007
    Getting rid of mouths wouldn't be difficult at all, because all you need to do is delete the polygons. :) It would probably look very silly though. :/
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann
    edited July 2007
    Kedri wrote: »
    In a 3D world, implementing a lack of mouth would be a lot harder and more inconsistent, unfortunately. Actually, I don't think it's the 3D, I think it's animation in general. People expect movement. It would be cool if it were possible, though...

    The Dilbert TV series did a pretty good job with having mouths appear and disappear frequently.

    Does anyone have a pic of Max without a mouth? I can't think of having seen that.

    On a related note, I hope that there's a gag at some point where Sam calls Max "Sam... I mean Max." That cracks me up.
  • ZeekZeek
    edited July 2007
    LuigiHann wrote: »
    Does anyone have a pic of Max without a mouth? I can't think of having seen that.

    If you have the S&M Sketchbook, just turn to the Character Sheet. It's the inside back cover.
  • TelltaleToolTelltaleTool
    edited July 2007
    AdamG wrote: »
    Getting rid of mouths wouldn't be difficult at all, because all you need to do is delete the polygons.

    That's not actually true, unfortunately.
  • xChri5xxChri5x
    edited July 2007
    If Max's mouth disappears his head should become round instead of oval otherwise it would look weird.
  • KedriKedri
    edited July 2007
    LuigiHann wrote: »
    The Dilbert TV series did a pretty good job with having mouths appear and disappear frequently.

    Does anyone have a pic of Max without a mouth? I can't think of having seen that.

    On a related note, I hope that there's a gag at some point where Sam calls Max "Sam... I mean Max." That cracks me up.

    Woah, when I picture animated Dilbert talking, then move up to Max, I can see it!

    As a reward for you, I dug up the two webcomic pages with mouthless Max:

    http://telltalegames.com/community/comics/samandmax/issue-3

    http://telltalegames.com/community/comics/samandmax/issue-7

    Enjoy.
  • dg10050dg10050
    edited July 2007
    AdamG wrote: »
    Getting rid of mouths wouldn't be difficult at all, because all you need to do is delete the polygons. :)
    Actually you would be adding polygons into the empty space of Max's mouth, and depending on the engine, this may be impossible to do.
  • AdamGAdamG
    edited July 2007
    What program are the models made with?
  • LaserschwertLaserschwert
    edited July 2007
    AdamG wrote: »
    What program are the models made with?
    I assume Maya, since the S2-rendering was done in Maya.

    Still, you "simply" have to switch the rigged model WITH the mouth, for a rigged model WITHOUT the mouth, both using the same bone-skeleton... I could do that in 3dsmax in realtime anyway, but maybe the TelltaleTool isn't capable of that.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited July 2007
    As has been said before, it is technically doable, but it's an aesthetic choice as well. Also, many cheats done in 2D just don't look right in 3D, or at least are very very hard to do without looking grotesque. For instance, look at how Sam is drawn in 2D basically all the time - in 3/4 view his nose and mouth are drawn off to the side, but to make him look like he's still looking at the "camera," Steve basically moves his eyes over to the side of his head. We tried this particular cheat in 3D to see if we could get Sam to convincingly look in more directions than he currently does, but it totally broke the reality of 3D Sam, and made his face look like a weird jumble of parts with a hat. Maybe if the games were cel shaded or something, doing things more in the style of Steve's 2D character cheats in 3D would be feasible visibly, but with the smoother, more roundly lit shading in our games, it frequently just looks surreal and creepy - but in a bad way.
  • dg10050dg10050
    edited July 2007
    Plus you have to have the animation to get rid of the mouth. You can't just have the mouth disappear. :P
    What kind of animation would make Max's mouth disappearance seem normal?
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann
    edited July 2007
    dg10050 wrote: »
    Plus you have to have the animation to get rid of the mouth. You can't just have the mouth disappear. :P
    What kind of animation would make Max's mouth disappearance seem normal?

    His mouth closing until it's invisible. Sort of a "hmm, interesting" expression. I think it would be cute.
  • ZeekZeek
    edited July 2007
    LuigiHann wrote: »
    His mouth closing until it's invisible. Sort of a "hmm, interesting" expression. I think it would be cute.

    And as I cited before, there are several cut scenes where Max does this over the season. But his mouth just doesn't want to stay close any longer than he has to when he says most of the words that end in a hard P sound like "up."
  • YohmiYohmi
    edited August 2007
    This animation shows many awesome-styled positions and drawings : http://www.telltalegames.com/community/blogs/page-31 but as Jake said, most of them don't look great at all in a rounded 3D style... it's not the same rendering at all... (and watching this short video remembers me an old debate about the lack of violence in the new seasons ^^)
  • KesariKesari
    edited August 2007
    LuigiHann wrote: »
    On a related note, I hope that there's a gag at some point where Sam calls Max "Sam... I mean Max." That cracks me up.

    I'd love that too :D
  • BadwolfBadwolf
    edited August 2007
    There was a subtle reference to it in episode 2.
    In the Millionaire quiz show, after replacing the questions, keep answering incorrectly until Hugh Bliss reads out "Who are you?"

    If you say Max, he'll say something along the lines of "A common misconception, but wrong."

    I'm sure there was a more blatant reference too, but I can't remember where. If the joke was overused though, it might alienate some of the people who haven't read the comics.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited August 2007
    I think "Sam, I mean Max" appears in episode 6 somewhere as well.
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