Am I the only one who dislikes the AGI games?
Don't get me wrong, I love the content of them, and I know how important the first KQ games were to the adventure genre...But a large part of whether I'm going to like a game or not relies on the presentation; the gameplay, the interface, etc.
It's not that I have anything against typing or even the primitive graphics--I love SQ3 and KQ4 for example and those have non VGA graphics with typing--but I could just never bring myself to like any of the earliest games. I played through KQ1-3 fully, but I could never quite get into them the same way as I did the VGA-SVGA games.
But the AGI games did help my reading skills when I played them first as a Kindergarten age kid, I will give them that.
Perhaps it's the fact that I was introduced to the KQ series, adventure gaming, and PC gaming in general with KQ5--and thus with the VGA, Point N' Click games--But like I said, I've never been able to really get into the AGI games.
Anyone have similar feelings?
It's not that I have anything against typing or even the primitive graphics--I love SQ3 and KQ4 for example and those have non VGA graphics with typing--but I could just never bring myself to like any of the earliest games. I played through KQ1-3 fully, but I could never quite get into them the same way as I did the VGA-SVGA games.
But the AGI games did help my reading skills when I played them first as a Kindergarten age kid, I will give them that.
Perhaps it's the fact that I was introduced to the KQ series, adventure gaming, and PC gaming in general with KQ5--and thus with the VGA, Point N' Click games--But like I said, I've never been able to really get into the AGI games.
Anyone have similar feelings?
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Seriously, though. It's harder to appreciate the older games when you didn't grow up with them. My first Sierra games were all the AGI games. They taught me to read, spell, and type. And the graphics (especially those by Mark Crowe) were simply captivating for being merely 160x168. There was talent there. KQ1's graphics were abysmal, really, but anything after that was pretty well done.
Yes, they also helped me with typing and spelling as well. And I agree with you about Mark Crowe's graphics. I'd say of the AGI games, the AGI SQs had the best graphics. SQ2 still looks relatively good despite it's primitive nature.
AGI graphics are awesome.
My first Sierra game (although I may have played one or two earlier without knowing it) was KQ5, which I played with a friend, and then bought my own copy, when I got my first IBM PC. Then I was trying hunt down all the older games after that point.
Frankly, I like the concept of parser over full point and click. I like the amount of control it offered, if it had a robust parser. You could try things that wouldn't work, and still get a comment for it by the narrator. Like the 'dig' verb in KQ2, or 'undress' in KQ4. Many of these lead to 'easter egg' style comments. You also got really cool multip part puzzles based on a series of verbs, like in SQ2, "hold breath", and then "dive". Where as point and click generation generally simplified that kind of puzzle into a one or two click thing. Click to dive, and a character would already hold their breath automatically.
A parser allowed for 'experimenation', that later simplifying and dumbing down of the interfaces lost. When they removed the narrators? By that time 90% of the interactivity was lost (you no longer had cool historical/geographical/etc background information, character thoughts/narrator thoughts on surroundings, etc). Just a few hotspots on the screen. Do modern games need 'narrators'? Not necessarily, however, I'd replace the narrator with a character's thoughts, and still keep the ability to look at almost everything! That really adds to the atmosphere and interactivity level. Telltale casual adventures really shows the end result of that direction of development.
I can't tell you how epic it really was when I first played King's Quest. There was nothing like it... the thought of exploring whole.... worlds, or lands, in a computer/video game was just something that didn't exist. Now, here was a game, with what seemed like a hundred different rooms - with different things to do in each! In one, I pushed a rock and found a dagger! I could climb UP a tree and find a bird's nest in another! It was amazing.
I definitely look at the games through those rose colored glasses, but when I think objectively..... Space Quest still rocks. MANHUNTER is one of the most amazing series in Sierra history, and it's only ever been made in AGI. Gold Rush was so colorful, and telling the history of the Gold Rush in the West of the US? AWESOME! It was an exciting time to grow up - we didn't take technology for granted. It was this miracle of engineering and genius when new technologies came out - higher color graphics adapters, better monitors, music/sound cards.... modems above 2400 BAUD.... it was amazing! The things that happened, in real time, in out lives! We weren't born into it... we watched it grow.
Bt
But Sierra's King's Quest and later AGI games actually have pleasant color combinations in EGA. They maybe weren't as detailed as some of the later EGA artwork out there, but it made up for it with a good choice of colors.
Apple IIGS version for example.
Not sure if Tandy included it either? I'm guessing not since it was essentially same version as on dos, with slightly enhanced soundtrack.
I know ScummVM gives the option but not sure if that's something they added.
Bt
On a related note, you can play the games on SCUMMVM as well but it takes some work unpacking the 2MG files.
Unfortunately they haven't added apple's color palette into SCUMMVM yet. You can access PC and Amiga palettes so far IIRC. You also miss out on the apple IIGS interface as it basically accesses the dos style interface (with mostly the same options as on Apple).
Of interesting thing that is shown because ScummVM accesses the AGI interface rather than Apple II GS interface is in KQ1 for example the quit option brings up a box in which exit quit is highlighted in green and continue is highlighted in red.
Benefit to using ScummVM? Well you don't have worry about disk swapping.
I do love the AGI games. Like, Police Quest I, the original release, is definitely my preferred version. I don't care for the VGA remake.
Bt
Most of the other Sierra games seem to work better.
I agree, and I'm glad its finally been added into the GOG collection.
It's also more consistent storywise to the PQ2 and PQ3.
The whole sex change into a female for one of the characters in PQ1VGA just makes things more confusing (as the character appears in PQ2 as a man)! Plus the fact that the city is not consistent between PQ1VGA and PQ2. It's almost as if they based the city off of PQ3, and made it even even bigger more technologically advanced city than even in PQ3. Noting that PQ1VGA is set as far as dates in the game, a year after PQ3!
THe original also has more puzzles, and more points. More characters to interact with.
Bt
I think Art Serabian, the drunk programmer is better than the remake's replacement character;
http://policequest.wikia.com/wiki/Art_Serabian
The drunk gangster wannabe William Barnum, in the remake...
http://policequest.wikia.com/wiki/William_J._Barnum
And Art Serabian is way better. WAAAY better.
Bt
I remember playing the text-based Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and I liked it, but I don't expect other people to.
Didn't someone do an AGS graphical remake of that? I feel like I remember hearing about it a while back, and hearing that it was good. Gonna have to check into that.
I felt the enemies you encounter in KQ8, were similar to the pointless random encounters that were there to kill/rob/curse you in KQ1 and KQ2, but didn't offer anything in the way of puzzle solutions, except in KQ8, you can actually do something about them (rather than the game telling you you are too weak, or not skilled enough to take them on).
Also felt there were other nods back to the original KQ (such as a lowly knight trying to save the king and kingdom much like Graham in the first game, lonely invaded daventry inhabited by few friends), but no need to go into detail here.
If someone was to demake KQ8 into an AGI, EGA, or VGA-style game, it would probably be more like KQ1 mixed with QFG (1, 2 & 4), and absolutely huge if the game designers were to keep the scope and size of each indvidual land.
The question would be would demake have random encounters more like KQ1 and KQ2, so that you have to just avoid them, or make combat something closer to QFG's early games, or The Adventures of Maddog Williams in the Dungeons of Duridian (if you haven't played this its more KQ-like than QFG, even with the few bits of combat, the sequel was to go more in the way of Space Quest).
Which is ironic, since there's actually quite a bit more dialog in the parser version! They cut out a lot of possible queries, responses, and narrator responses when they condensed everything into dialog trees and limited the interactions to the standard point and click verbs.
Interestingly if you can also find places where the developers of the fan remake also changed some of the text as well.
You aren't alone. I dislike the second game. The first one was okay, so is the third one. In my opinion, I think it is because how they would go and add more to the story, which can come out being too dark or different than the rest of the King's Quest games by Sierra.
You do realize that the first game has less story than the second game right? There is almost twice as much text in the second game, and the 3rd is almost twice as large as the 2nd.
The 2nd game added an intro cartoon which was push of the technology for the time (the original didn't have an introduction). The 2nd also added linear and changing events, that is characters that would only show up only if certain conditions were already met. This 'scripting' was also and advancement to the technology.
Also if you pay attention and use the right commands, you learn that several characters in the game are connected to each other, and mention each other in the 2nd game. This was not done in the first, where every character you encounter was disconnected from every other character. By connecting characters to together gives a more 'living breathing world' where neighbors are seemingly interacting with each other. KQ3 takes this much further of course.
I think he may be mistaking AGI for AGDI?
By the way, looking over some of these AGI pics of women from Police Quest and LSL, I think it's interesting how prominent they made the nipple bump through the clothes. Quite risqué.
KQ2 by Sierra is about twice as large as KQ1, and KQ3 is almost twice as large as KQ3.
The script and scripting became progressively more sophisticated in each. As far as limits in technology at the time would allow.
Check out the KQ wiki for complete (or near) transcripts of each.
The fan games including TSL are way to gimmicky and rely to much on similar plot ideas... Evil "black cloak" are behind nearly everything stereotype... 1000 year prophecies etc... Weird character changes. They take too many liberties to originals.
It's almost the same reasons why I like PQ1 original over the remake.
Personally I'm looking more forward to MusicallyInspired's lovingly nod to the SCIEGA games and the KQ1 remake/KQ4 SCI version of KQ2. Supposed to have enhanced script with improved soundtrack, and stay truer to the original series.