Please to make harder, k plz thx.
Just spent my friday and saturday playing through the monkey island series of games...
Ever tried Monkey Island 3 (curse) on Mega Monkey mode? It's eleventy billion more times hardererer than Sam N Max (TellTale Style) ... Why is that?
I know that TellTale only has a fairly finite amount of time to develop their game, and despite time constraints come up with a fairly kick ass product that I love and support - BUT! ... It's too easy! 90% of the time, I can complete an episode in a few hours playing through all the scenarios instead of hurrying through and not trying everything (for comic relief etc)...
If I were to try every conceivable piece of conversation in Monkey Island (any of them) the game would take days to complete! ...
Is there a chance that TellTale will do another resurrection of older LucasArts games (zak, dott(manic mansion?), indy, monkey, etc?) But this time take all the time needed to make a nice, long, replayable, and most importantly: Very Difficult and challenging game?
*sigh* I miss the old days... Why o why must lucasarts suck so bad these days?!
Only a few more days till I get to play 205! Yay!
- R
Ever tried Monkey Island 3 (curse) on Mega Monkey mode? It's eleventy billion more times hardererer than Sam N Max (TellTale Style) ... Why is that?
I know that TellTale only has a fairly finite amount of time to develop their game, and despite time constraints come up with a fairly kick ass product that I love and support - BUT! ... It's too easy! 90% of the time, I can complete an episode in a few hours playing through all the scenarios instead of hurrying through and not trying everything (for comic relief etc)...
If I were to try every conceivable piece of conversation in Monkey Island (any of them) the game would take days to complete! ...
Is there a chance that TellTale will do another resurrection of older LucasArts games (zak, dott(manic mansion?), indy, monkey, etc?) But this time take all the time needed to make a nice, long, replayable, and most importantly: Very Difficult and challenging game?
*sigh* I miss the old days... Why o why must lucasarts suck so bad these days?!
Only a few more days till I get to play 205! Yay!
- R
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Obviously, if you're making a game like Curse of Monkey island, with potentially 10-20 times as many environments as a single Telltale episode*, you will have more complexity there. Curse of Monkey Island probably has ... I have no idea... somewhere between fifty and a hundred rooms to explore, many of them out of order, and the biggest Sam & Max episode has maybe approaching fifteen environments. So, the scope of an episode is always going to be smaller ... but that's part of the point -- it's an episode.
The other, probably more important issue (at least to me, which technically means nothing since I am a graphic designer and not a game design director) is that people actually finish shorter simpler games, and at Telltale actually experiencing the story and the world is more important than emerging from battle against some puzzle mechanic or another. I love old graphic adventure games -- I started samandmax.net in high school, and helped run Mixnmojo for a period of years -- but it took me about six years to finally actually play Sam & Max Hit the Road all the way through, and I didn't ever actually finish Grim Fandango until about 2004 (I wonder how many people just uninstall the game when they're about half way through Rubacava in year 2?). I've never seen the middle 2/5 of Escape from Monkey Island -- I got stuck a little over a third in and put the game down. My brother eventually finished it and I sat in to watch the last chapter of the game, but I've never actually completed that game on my own.
Many of my friends, even the self-professed adoring fans of these games, haven't actually, for one reason or another, seen the end of many of "The Classics" of the adventure game world. Many of these same people had stopped playing adventure games for that (and many other) reasons years ago, but have picked up the Sam & Max episodes and are really enjoying them. And, since they're split up into easily digestible chunks, they're actually getting to experience the full story that the writers and designers spent so long crafting.
* If you count all the environments in a Telltale season it probably gets far closer to a classic traditional-length adventure. For instance, Season Two contains probably upwards of forty-fifty rooms, which is pretty decent.
The size of the episodes probably makes it hard to get the balance right. With so few locations, it's not easy to create puzzles that are at the same time challenging and logical. Maybe Sam & Max should carry over more inventory items from past episodes?
But always the discussion whether the bucket should be red or blue. You can never please the crowd, but the most important is the crowd getting a bucket!
I still think that you guys are doing the best job for the adventure genre than anyone else in these hard times
But if I should put something in the different bucket, how about trying an episode in 2D? Just like the good old days?
Regards
Rubberchickenwithapulley
Additionally, I think the hints mode in season 2 helps players solve puzzles on their own, without having to resort to way too obvious solutions. It's actually pretty weird that almost none of the other games include such a mode. Subtle hints in-game are much more fun than looking up a walkthrough on the internet.
When it comes to classics, I've used the hints on the World of Monkey Island website at some occasions (they have really nice incremental hints, that point you in the right direction without completely spoiling the puzzles). Fortunately I was able to finish Grim Fandango myself, as the story (especially in the end) is great! It's really sad when such epic tales are left unsung because of a stupid puzzle.
Couldn't add inthemiddle could you?:D
but i think where the episodes are right now is a nice difficulty level, most puzzles go rather smoothly, with one or 2 challenges in each episode that really make you wander around for a while and think, (if the whole game were like that, it would drive most people insane-er)... another added bonus is how sometimes you are not even aware that something is a puzzle
the current story structure of the episodes is perfect as well... a teaser and 3 acts, with about 9 puzzle objectives spread across the episode
my only request, is i would like to see more progression of sam and max's world in each episode, and to see more things changing as we play the episode as the result or our actions... take "Abe Lincoln must die", in the episode we see multiple changes, including sybil changing jobs midway through the episode, the various stages of the political situation, and how it is affecting everyone on the street, etc...
with the way the episodes are now, we need to wait for the next episode to see the repercussions of sam and max's actions... this removes a lot of the spontaneity from the games (i think it would be cool to add a free roaming section at the end of each episode so they can wander around after their case and take in the destruction)
and i hope that they keep up and give us more ramdom character ramblings (like featherly, and bosco in 204)
It's just as confusing as it sounds. And, the level has a time limit. I took time on my lunch break at work to try to work it out with a pencil and paper. I devoted about an hour more to it at home. I still couldn't do it. I looked it up on GameFAQs and even then it was really hard, because the FAQ authors couldn't really clearly convey the 3-dimensional solution.
The worst part is that this puzzle requires a skill set completely unrelated to any of the other gameplay. It's a stealth action game, not a mathematical puzzle-solving game. I'd imagine that people who are naturally less computer/mathematically inclined than I am would find it pretty much impossible.
I reckon the games' difficulty level has less to do time constraints than it does with a conscious intent. I can't imagine insanely difficult puzzles would be harder to make (relative to logical puzzles, anyway). It's probably all too easy to design a puzzle involving a golf ball retriever, a glob of oil, and a mummified hand, since you don't have to offer the player any explanation as to why it should work. But then, I've never designed an adventure game.
Haha, 204 was for me one of the unbalanced as well, but it was way too hard for me. So I guess, it's just something like personal view, that makes such Episodes too hard or too easy...
Text adventure? Those are a LOT of fun to make.
man... i had to look that up too. and even printed out someones graphical attempt to show you how to do it. Even with the illustrations i had trouble. wat a bitch puzzle...
"The Classics" are some of the most time consuming one. Mostly because of the need to finish it without help and the complexity of the puzzles. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy complex puzzles. However, many a time, I have gotten to the point here I say "[expletive deleted] this game!" and a few years later I'll go back to it. I know thats what I did for The Dig and Grim Fandango, two games I still haven't finished.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, when it comes to the difficulty of the Episodic Sam & Max. If it isn't broke, there is no reason to fix it. Many people are happy with the product as it is, while many say its too easy or too hard. If it is tweaked to accommodate those who think its too easy or too hard, those who think the opposite will just complain.
the difficulty of s&m episodes is fine however...you will always have the hardcore adventure gamers begging for more and the occasional gamers for less difficulty. if the amount of complaints is equal you're on the right track..
I mentioned this in my review for 205, and I know it's fantasy land thinking, but I wish they could merge an entire season together into one game. Rework it, add scenes, add puzzles but make one seamless game out of the season. With the mixing of locations and objects from all the chapters, there would be a better chance for the writers to create indepth puzzles.
It would be easier with 203, 204 and 205 because they all lead right into each other (all future episodes should have cliffhanger endings), but a "special edition" type game a couple years down the line when there some time in the production schedule would be wonderful. Like someone mentioned, people don't finish long games, so I guess these bite size pieces are more managable, but I wouldn't rest while a game remained unfinished. I would play the old Infocom text games and those took a LOT of patience and perseverance. I would think about them all day at school and write out solutions and then go home and try them. That's real gaming. Being able to get the answer on the internet now is too tempting and takes away from the fun. I don't blame anyone, why twist your brain into knots if the answer is a click away? It's also a good reason to make the "long" version of a season because people can choose to run over for a walkthrough or go it alone, so there's no reason to leave a game unfinished.
Can I call myself a game designer now?
I'm ashamed to say I haven't played Curse of Monkey Island. My parents vouched for "edutaining" PC games during my childhood and I missed out on a lot. I plan to buy it once I've played through What's New Beelzebub and some of my hysteria over the upcoming H*R and S&M seasons has died down.
aww thats a shame, my dad would sit me down when I was 3 and watch in disbelief as I played MI1 8D I honestly think it is educational I became more logical and I learnt to read ealier >.> lol
Go buy curse of monkey island 8DDDD noooww
But lately, playing the S&M episodes I've noticed something myself. I just need to play these games in one 3 hour sitting, if possible, just to see where it's going. I don't mind using the walkthrough here and there (which hasn't been a lot, really), because I'm not playing for the challenge anymore, but for the jokes and amusement. For that the difficulty level is just right.
It's because of the nature of episodic gaming. There has to be a constant flow, much like on TV shows. You don't want it to drag. Plus when you're an adult, you don't necessarily have as much time to use to solve it. I mean, they offer a complete walkthrough on the website from minute one. Doesn't that say something. And I totally understand the game developers' point of view (the locations and such).
I myself would drool for another real BIG adventure game such as Grim Fandango (the best one ever) or DIG. Hopefully someone sometime will develop another one. Then I'd start committing myself more to gaming again. What Telltale does is the next best thing, and I bow to them for that.
That said, I feel a little smart when I figure it out and then about 30 seconds later, Max pipes up with a hint that cements my idea.
I think the Syberia games live up to the old adventuring genre (though of course nothing comes close to topping Grim Fandango or TLJ imho). The Nancy Drew games were ok at first for easy gaming, but they are quite samey after a few (collect n of $thing, solve arbitrary logic puzzle, repeat). The Experiment (Experience 112) was quite novel, and I would rate it higher if it wasn't for a few sections.
Adventure gaming isn't dead, it's just resting