Educate Me on DRM

edited June 2008 in General Chat
I caught wind of how a large chunk of people are cancelling their pre-orders of Spore because of some faulty security thing that was used on Mass Effect and again on BioShock. I couldn't find any infromation on what happened on my own, but the term DRM kept coming up. I checked it out on Wikipedia, but from what I was able to understand, it sounds like another attempt of protecting copyright through a program similar to what TTG uses to authorize access to their games that I've bought (most recently with TTH).

Can someone with more technical knowledge and the ability to explain this kind of information to a fifth grader tell me what the deal is and why so many people are so upset?

Comments

  • edited June 2008
    I think someone mentioned, that the protection these games use, is a version of SecuRom..

    Try these
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securom
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_effect

    I found some info in there, it is not much however.
  • edited June 2008
    Thanks for those link.

    From this new information, it just sounds like the main concern now is that any game with this SecuROM in its programing will be unplayable. I can see why people would be concern about it given just that long chunk of problems in the links.

    That is, if I'm understanding what I read correctly...
  • edited June 2008
    Zeek wrote: »
    Can someone with more technical knowledge and the ability to explain this kind of information to a fifth grader tell me what the deal is and why so many people are so upset?

    The main problem is some DRM can be very limiting (eg, you can only install a game so many times, you have to connect to the net to play, even if it's a single player game, etc).
    The other problem is, pirates crack it in days, sometimes even hours, and can play the game without any of the restrictions legitimate players have to put up with.

    I'm not much of a PC gamer myself, so I've not really got any reason to hate on DRM too much, but I can definitely see why it annoys people.
    I can see why it's used though, if there's no DRM it almost encourages people to copy the game and hand it around to friends. It's just some companies take it too far, and far from stopping piracy, it seems to force some people into it.

    I think what developers need to start doing, instead of piling as much piracy protection onto a disc as possible, is to start being more imaginative.
    One game I saw once didn't have anything in the way of DRM. In fact, they uploaded their own game to torrent sites. The torrented version did have a guilt screen though (which didn't appear in the game itself) in the installation screens, which encouraged players, if they enjoyed the game, to properly buy it and support the creators so they could keep making new games. From what I remember, it worked out pretty well for them.

    I know this wouldn't work in all cases, but it's good to see that people are thinking of other, better ways to get people to buy their games than DRM.
  • edited June 2008
    Perhaps the major problem with Mass Effect and Spore was the originally reported 10-day re-authentication period and the forced internet connections to get the game to start.

    Now, with Telltale Games games if I recall correctly you have to input your account details before you can play - it checks the server online to see if that actually is your account name and password and if you actually do own it.

    Once you've done that, however, it's registered and you don't need to do it again.

    The difference here is that originally Mass Effect and Spore required you to do it every 10 days and that they require you to be online every single time you try to run the game.

    If I recall correctly, EA have since published statements saying those measures won't be in their games.

    If I recall correctly BioShock was something about max installations.

    I think that's it. I don't know. I'm tired.
  • edited June 2008
    damn, i just realised, that i wanted to order mass effect...and now they pull this stuff on me. i should call my man up in edmonton and tell him...ahhh, to fix this.
  • edited June 2008
    The issue with Bioshock is that it only allows you to install it twice. So if your computer crashes, you just lost one of those activations. You can use a tool that they released to revoke a license, but it has to be run on the computer and Windows installation that that license was used for. If you have to reinstall Windows, the only way to get an install license back is to call them and listen to hours of hold music. :p
  • edited June 2008
    ^This is why I hold TTG's Customer Service on a podium of gold. No putting me on hold for infinity while they play the same muzak loop over and over again with moderate inturruptions of how my call is so "important" to them.
  • edited June 2008
    Our hold system used to play the drum loop from the white house lawn in 104. Then we got a new PBX and I haven't gotten around to replacing the hold music yet.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited June 2008
    We've gotta get season one Bosco's and the two Hell tracks on there.
  • edited June 2008
    Ah, the ultimate torture in hold music...

    I'll make a note not to call your offices and just e-mail all my Customer Service needs.
  • edited June 2008
    So, back on the subject at hand.

    I did some more research on the issue and found out that as of May 12, EA announced that Spore will not have the crippling SecuROM, but some mumbo-jumbo about CD Key authorization that needs to be checked every time the game downloads new content (which will be every session, as marketted).

    Thing is, even with this announcement, there are still people saying that EA is not getting rid of this SecuROM thing. I found stories from The Sims community saying that they've lost the ability to add music to iTunes or even burn a DVD of when their grandfather was alive because SecuROM thought the action was a form of piracy. There are ways around this program from what I've read as well.

    Thing is, I don't know who to believe, and as my pre-order date gets closer to delivery, I find myself not being able to find more information on this issue.

    Where else should I look? You know, as an educated gaming consumer...
  • edited June 2008
    i would try to ask ea about it...of course they probably won't answer any email, but they should know they got you confused with this strange copy protection stuff and that you are reconsidering the purchase. i should do that too...in fact anybody should.
  • edited June 2008
    I don't see SecuROM messing up my DVD burning software on my laptop (Windows XP Home SP2), and my brother's desktop (Windows Vista Home Premium RTM), but still, EA's excessive use of SecuROM is starting to disturb me. Before long, all the good games they have will be not bought due to SecuROM. They could just make it have the disc in the drive each time you play.
  • edited June 2008
    I don't find that as annoying as some people do, but I can understand the side of the debate where some users' CDs will get lost or scratched. That's why I like TTG's authorization process and wish more games would follow suit.
  • edited June 2008
    Zeek wrote: »
    I did some more research on the issue and found out that as of May 12, EA announced that Spore will not have the crippling SecuROM, but some mumbo-jumbo about CD Key authorization that needs to be checked every time the game downloads new content (which will be every session, as marketted).
    I remember reading somthing about that, hang on...there we go: Orginally,the game will require online validation every 10 days to akeep the game availbe to be played.
    http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52547
    And EA decided to took it off and allow the user to have offline play if it was not validated every 10 days.
    http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52618
    However, I think they haven't really solve the problem. Since they are fighting against a bunch of programmers aimming to crack their software and validation system probabbly for challenge and fun, it's just a matter of time before they crack this one.
    I guess the only solution is when they realize they have scare off game companies making games for PC.
  • edited June 2008
    Goalseil wrote: »
    I guess the only solution is when they realize they have scare off game companies making games for PC.
    And I thought lossing customers were bad. I didn't even think about the possibilites of lossing game developers and companies. Way to shoot yourself in the foot, EA! :D
  • WillWill Telltale Alumni
    edited June 2008
    The important thing to remember here is that not all DRM is absurdly overwrought. For example, we use SecuRom, the same program that BioShock, Spore, and Mass Effect use for security. But SecuRom is highly customizable. So while they were considering the ubersecure route of constant activations, our security is fairly basic and not nearly so invasive.

    Similarly, there are differences in DRM companies. SecuRom doesn't install anything extra on your computer (as far as I know), whereas Starforce was known for hiding all sorts of persistent drivers that couldn't be uninstalled, many of which broke lots of perfectly legal programs.

    Really, one of the best sources for information is to load up the wikipedia page on DRM and peruse the External Links and Further Reading sections.
  • edited June 2008
    the point is, that no copy protection method should limit the user to much. if it does you feel like an second rate customer...compared to pirates.
    what telltale does seems reasonable to me...hothead got critizised for their penny arcade drm, because they also limit installations. from what i read the limitation is not that severe and only used to prevent people from doing several installations a week. ea is becoming quite nasty however and actually i don't feel comfortable buying from them. okay, the last ea game i bought was ultima9, i think...but now they also aquired bioware and i want my mass effect...:mad:
  • edited June 2008
    wisp wrote: »
    okay, the last ea game i bought was ultima9, i think...but now they also aquired bioware and i want my mass effect...:mad:

    Ah, I still remember the last game I bought from EA... It was Skate or Die for my Commodore 64. That must have been over 15 years ago... memories.
  • edited June 2008
    I like the idea of only authenticating when download new content... if you are already connecting to their servers, why shouldn't you be having to authenticate your software. That is how MMOs (sort of) work.
    I just hate limited installs, as I reformat my computer every 6 months or so.
  • edited June 2008
    Derwin wrote: »
    I just hate limited installs, as I reformat my computer every 6 months or so.
    ...this is what anybody should do. on the other hand, i would probably be unemployed then...or have a good job.
    anyway, it is sort of ridiculous that a major software developer believes two installations per lifetime would be enough...or just...or make any kind of sense, except forcing customers to buy a game twice.

    an absolute limit of installations is something that simply makes me feel uneasy buying a product. i have no problem if the limitation is bound to a certain period of time...let's say, you can't install and activate a game two times a week..or even a month. that way you can prevent casual copying and still let the customer enjoy his/her product for countless years to come.

    ...or you give them a disc after all the downloadable content is released...but, i guess, only the really cool companies are doing stuff like this. being a cool company already helps a bit as well. people are a lot less tempted to steal your games, if they believe you are not trying to rip them off and don't give a :eek: about them. best copy protection ever...
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