Hidden things in Episode 2
Warning: Don't read on if you haven't played Episode2 or don't want anything to get spoiled
Hey, I just wanted to discuss some potentially important parts of Episode 2 that could have been overlooked by people, and maybe talk about what might happen in the next Episode. Here's some of the things that I've noticed so far:
Detective notes - It's already been mentioned in a few threads, Brannigan wrote a note before her nose started bleeding, and Bigby only took the photo of Snow/Lily's head. This opens up the possibility that that's not the last we'll see of her. Also, there was a camera behind her during the interview, meaning it could have been filmed. I don't know how the magic works, but it might have destroyed the footage maybe
If you interrogate Dee, Crane never gives Bigby any prompt to use violence or voices his disapproval of him. However, with the Woodsman, Crane tells Bigby he suspects him in the car ride, and hints that Bigby should use other methods, ending with "but it's all up to you". Many think that Crane has some involvement with the Tweedles which would make sense given his lax treatment of Dee compared to Woody, but it could also be that Crane is just being prejudiced and looking for a scapegoat.
Snow and Bufkin talk when you return to the Office. If you go and talk to her before or after talking with the Toads, you purposefully overhear Snow saying something to Bufkin aloing the lines of "Look through the records, start with Bluebeard". Either way, it looks like she might be trying to start her own investigation, which could put her in serious danger. EDIT: She also asks Bufkin to find out about a Mundy Neighborhood Watch programme if you talk to her a second time
Everyone at the Pudding Club says the line These lips are sealed even the doorgirl and Nerissa. I didn't look precisely at Lily or the door-girl, but Nerissa definitely had a ribbon on her neck, so that has serious significance
Nerissa and Georgie talk to each other when bigby tells her she doesn't have enough money, and upon returning she gives him a key to the hotel room. What exactly did she say to Georgie? It doesn't seem right that he just gave her the key, unless he wanted Bigby to find the murder scene or Nerissa seriously persuaded him. She might also have lied about the money, which could put her in danger
This is something I haven't seen mentioned a lot. When you leave the Pudding Club, you see a black Police Officer hug presumably a prostitute and then walk past you. However, when he gets close to Bigby, the officer pulls his hat down and hides his face, not too dissimilar from the kid with the cut jeans outside the office in Episode 1. Coincidence?
When Bigby goes to find Nerissa, Georgie tells him he will report him to his superiors. If you hang around long enough, Georgie says he wants to speak to the Deputy Mayor. If Ichabod was the client -which it is almost definitely the truth - he would have gotten an early warning. This would have made him spy on Bigby in the mirror, which could mean that he saw everything after and including the talk with Nerissa.
When you ask Beauty about if she saw anyone, she says she didn't see anyone she recognized apart from someone bearing a resemblance to Snow. She does say that she has only worked ther for a while, but if the murder happened the night before she must have been on duty. Therefore, if Crane entered, he must have been disguised in some way or another. Hard to think Beauty wouldn't recognize a plain Crane. EDIT Also, when Bigby tells Beauty to talk to him or Snow when she has future financial problems, she says "i tried" - that could mean that she was running out of time to pay the debts, or even that Snow turned her down.
Lily's last night was in the room 207, If you look closely at the room numbers in the Woodlands, the numbers only go up to 206, that room being Flycatcher's, before going on to numbers in the 300s and 400s. Coincidence? Also the lock for the room can't be opened by Beauty, and when you talk to her in the room, she says it could be held long-term.
The person/people with Lily that night smoked Huff and Puff Cigarettes. We are told by Beauty that it was thought only Bigby smoked that brand. But remember, Snow says that Crane doesn't like people smoking in his office, and you would think Bigby or her would recognize the smell of smoke if he was. The cigarette belongs to someone else
Why was the envelope in the closet near the dress? This was the envelope containing those photos, and they weren't really that well hidden. Why? So that Bigby would definitely find them?
Also, one of the photos was taken last winter according to Bigby. This stalker is a long-term person, and it is assumed must have been the one that snuck in her apartment to get the photo and the hair.
On a different note, the glamour bottle shown in Crane's car for the preview for 3 definitely can't be the one Bigby had. I think it was shown because he might try to disguise himself as someone else. He might have access to the black market glamour, and who knows who he might try to impersonate. It could be a stranger, or a Woodlands resident, maybe even a Mundy, So it will be an important part next time, I think.
Another important part I think will be the effect of not hitting Beast. Does anyone know what his reaction is if you do punch him a second time (I haven't tried it)? Perhaps Beauty and him won't trust you and be less willing to help?
And finally,one of the crucial parts of the story is the stolen thing. Either Faith or Lily stole something from the employer of the Tweedles, so there could have been a mix-up. Also, there could have been an exchange. It can be assumed that Faith returned to the Club after meeting Bigby, but she said herself that she needed to drop off something she had. Is the item really that important, and who did it belong to?
EDIT Also, this thread talks about the significance of the Tarot Cards --> http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/58329/different-tarot-cards-this-episode
, Tarot Cards could be the plot of each episode. I'm no expert on Tarot Cards but the explanations for the cards in both Episodes bear a strong resemblance to each plot. The 3rd card in Episode 1 was meant to mean finding the head, and the 3rd in Episode 2 was something about confusion and finding truth or something (I have no clue) which is related to the revelation about Crane. And since it looks definite that Bigby and Snow will go back to the Office to see the Mirror anyway, it can be assumed that there will be new Tarot Cards there. If TellTale are using them this way, it's certainly a pretty smart way to hint at the story.
If you've stuck around long enough to read all this, then thanks and sorry for the long post. Thoughts and your own contributions would be greatly appreciated!
Comments
In addition, the black market thingy is in Bigby's possession, so Crane has a different one with him at the end of the episode when it shows "Next time on". Perhaps Crane isn't Crane?
In addition, the black market thingy is in Bigby's possession, so Crane has a different one with him at the end of the episode when it shows "Next time on". This could mean: a. Crane is planning to make another Fable use the glamour, like Lily did, b. Crane is planning on using the Glamour to go into hiding, or c. someone else is glamoured to look like Crane.
The red car also makes a reappearance several times during this episode, and Crane can be seen adjusting his rear view mirror precisely at the moment it's behind him, as they set off. The mysterious gentleman with the ginger hair himself doesn't seem to have made an appearance himself though, but he may still have a part to play.
if you hit beast second time, beauty just starts to scream, nothing else.
Someone is no doubt trying to set up Crane. He was most likely the perverted Mr Smith who loved to live out his snow white fantasy on a regular basis. But someone who smokes has got dirt on what he's done and went so far as to kill Lilly and make Crane look like the culprit.
One more thing, the wine bottle in room 207 is the same (brand) as the one Bufkin swiped from Crane's desk and was chugging on in episode 1. So was it Crane or someone else? It's very confusing at this point.
funnily enough in Episode 1 I saw that EVERY taxi driver was/looked the same. In Episode 2 it never even showed a glimpse of the redhead or similar looking taxi drivers
they looked the same but I doubt they were definitely the same. Crane said he would get it himself and he would have had plenty of time to get it. There was a similar thing with the guns in The Walking Dead, that there was only one or two different gun models used
Seems if slide 3 was changed to remove the detectives, it's possible the detective story line got cut. We only saw the tiny bit in episode 2 because they had to put in something due to the end of episode 1. Telltale kind of shot themselves in the foot with that story line in that regard. Seems they decided to go in another direction but couldn't cut it entirely due to what we already saw.
Crazy theory, but maybe "Crane" is a glamoured Tweedle Dum explaining why he wouldn't want to use violence on Dee. We also never see both at the same time. Or "Crane" is a glamoured Crooked Man. I doubt Crane is really Crane. Makes you suspicious of everyone now that it's out of the bag that anyone can appear as anyone else.
The girl at the door did have a ribbon as did Nerissa. Georgie had one on his hat. So possible all of them are being controlled by someone higher.
I stole Georgie's money and gave that to Nerissa to pay him. Thought that was pretty funny. It's possible Georgie gave up the key in any scenario to have something to blackmail Bigby with later. Bigby "hired" one of his girls for the night? Scandal! Georgie could've given up the key to just get rid of Bigby in the moment as well. Or "Crane" told him to give Bigby the key.
I took the black officer hugging the prostitute as tipping his hat to Bigby (I.E. showing respect), not trying to hide his face. Bigby was heading to the same building so the officer took Bigby as another customer and acknowledged him. Prostitution is illegal in the US. The officer could've just arrested Bigby but instead acknowledged they were doing the same thing (or seemed to be doing the same thing) and wanted to show he was friendly.
Beauty works at a slutty hotel. She didn't want to work there but really had no other options. You think she'd really pay attention to who came in and out? She was there to work the desk. She likely kept her head down 95% of the time. So not surprising she wouldn't remember seeing anything because she didn't. Seems if you get the keys while at the club next door, then there's no reason for Beauty to work the desk outside of customer service and getting the keys back when the customers are done. She probably also sat in her little room wearing headphones or something so she didn't hear the thumping upstairs. Possible she heard the murder but mistook it as something else. You can hear the one couple in room 203 and even walk in on them (resulting in a rather funny scene). They were pretty loud. Imagine 2-3 couples or a rather rowdy one up there. Surely there was a reason for that couple to be there beyond causing Wolfie to embarrass himself. The murder could've happened when all of the other rooms were in use thus covering any sound of the murder.
Seven is often considered a lucky number for some people and is often a magic number in other things. Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, a person has to repeat something seven times to remember it (supposedly), etc. So no real surprise there's a 7 theme. I tend to have a 3 and a 7 one going in my own writing. I don't tend to do it consciously, either. They just happen. So could just be coincidental or it could be something major.
We saw the Tweedles smoke cigars, but so far they're the only other ones we know of (if you don't read the comics) that seem to smoke. It's very possible the smoker is someone in relation to Bigby or is known to him but he has forgotten.
The photo envelope was under the rug by the window poking out a little (in my game anyway). It was obviously placed there. The image of Crane in bed with Lily was too suspicious. If you've seen Roger Rabbit, the detective in the movie similarly took an incriminating photo of Jessica Rabbit with the mayor playing patty cake. It's not Crane who's the murder but likely whoever the photographer was. Maybe the photographer snapped the photo, somehow knocked both out, killed Lily, slipped the pictures under the carpet to frame Crane, took Crane elsewhere while dropping Lily in the river and at the Woodlands, and then took Crane's place. Why would Crane set up a camera and take a picture of himself? And the angle suggests it was taken from the window.
you bring up some good points there, but I'm still suspicious about the cop. Georgie could be trying to blackmail Bigby, especially with the preview confirming Bigby visits the club again, but I'm not sure Bigby would be too fazed about being falsely accused of hiring prostitutes, since he has bigger skeletons in his closet. It's hugely unlikely Crane knew about the taken photo, so could be assumed the photographer was either the killer or accomplice, or even someone trying to blackmail Crane. The whole thing about a glamoured Crane is a bit strange though. The vial was purposefully shown for people to see and speculate about, but I'm not sure about Crane not being Crane. When Crane smashes the Mirror, you know that he is very upset about the photo being found, with him clenching his fist, but it can't be assumed this theory is wrong. And I was thinking of knocking on that door in the hotel but I thought best not to. And the whole Beauty thing is also strange. You bring up some good points, but she did at least see Lily/Snow, but then again they could have entered at different times. Thanks for the discussion
it does look like a massive attempt at framing Crane. It has been confirmed by comic readers that Crane did have a thing for Snow and left due to accusations of embezzlement and sexual harassment (presumably of Snow), so I think we're gonna be finding Crane very soon
WOW!!!
I love the game too someguy but you actually married it.
Yikes.
haha no I'm just interested in the Story and where it's heading. Gotta get my Wolf Among Us hit somehow before the next episode!
Yeah everyone at the whorehouse has such ribbon. Some people even think it's the cause of the decapitation, like an electric leash that dogs can wear.
Also something else to note is that the bottle which was found in episode 1 on Crane's desk is also the one you can examine in the murder room. This means Crane would most likely have been there at some point.
When you examine Lilly´s body, Crane says "What about diseases?". Maybe he Is scared that he has AIDS or something?
Bufkin stole the wine. He also has access to Snow and Crane, and an intimate knowledge of the workings of the business office. We've never seen Bufkin's human form, but doesn't mean he couldn't have one. Maybe Bufkin did it?
I'd be honestly shocked if Bufkin had anything to do with the murders. The comics show him to be an active member of the community and...well he's a flying drunk monkey! How can you suspect anyone so lovable and awesome?
haha that would be a bit of stretch of a story-line, but yeah i had him say that and I wasn't sure what he meant. I thought it was more of a comment of his disgust at trolls
You could also read that as him be freaked out that the troll he hired on a regular basis had been killed and was trying to stall bigby from investigating.
If you give Faith your money you will find it in the strip club along with geogie book
I doubt this has anything to do with the plot, but does anyone know why "Myron" was etched onto the tray that Crane dumps the evidence onto during the investigation? I assume it's some sort of in-joke, maybe the name of a Telltale animator or something?
Correction: I'm not sure if Crane went disguised. Beauty might know Bigby, but she might have never seen Crane, his boss.
I feel ya bro.
I think reading this was a bad idea... >.> I am even more antsy now for the next episode. And I was thinking maybe those ribbons are the spell that keeps the lips sealed? Snow said the thirteenth floor doesn't make objects anymore but we know the black market does as is evident of the Glamour on Lily the Troll.
haha sorry for pumping you up, the ribbons must have something to do with the spell. The whole black market stuff could have huge importance in the story
The photo looked like it had been taken in the magic mirror to me, which narrows the suspects down to only those who have access to the business office while Crane is out. Those we know of (so far) are Bufkin (who never seems to leave), Bigby, Snow, and probably Bluebeard, as we see him looking very comfortable and pleased with himself in the preview to 3.
What is pertinent is that Bufkin tells us anyone with the right training could make the glamour, yet the black market one isn't as effective as the witches' own version. I would think this means that the person behind the black market version isn't somebody magical at all.
just got something else to add....
I have this feeling no one would leave photographic evidence at the crime scene... so i believe that crane is being framed
Photo 2 - appears to be taken through frosted window of some sort... maybe a car (cab or this red car that I've been hearing about)
Photo 3 - Cranes arms are locked onto Lilly, so who is taking the photo. The line in the middle of the photo could it be the pull string of the curtains and someone taking a snap from the fire escape?
Would love to know what everyone else thinks!
EDIT Just had a thought what if the photos had been taken of the magic mirror...
It could also mean that they actually don't have any training though, they are all fables but not all magical, or else they would make their own Glamours. What if we are looking at this all the wrong way? The preview shows Bluebeard trying to take over the office, could it be him trying to get the head honchos seat? And where is the King? I know they said in Episode one that he is away but what if he never comes back and all this was set up by Bluebeard. He has the criminal background, he's prone to murder ex. all of his ex wives, and he certainly has the ambition.
it doesn't seem right that Crane is behind the murders. Sure he has a thing for Snow but there is no way that he is the serial killer, or at least a very small possibility. I didn't get good enough looks on the photos but the second 1 definitely looked like it was taken from behind a window or far away. There must have been a secret photographer watching Crane, and it is plausible that person has a hand in the murders. Based solely on the evidence gathered, it would look like Crane did it, but I highly doubt he's the killer
could be a possibility, would explain how they didn't see the photographer
Interesting. That makes me believe that Bluebeard is behind this. Exposing Crane's creepiness, so that he'll leave town or try to frame him for the murder. I would be surprised if Crane actually committed the murder, but he may know who did.
Now, if Crane didn't do it, and since the comics say he left town due to the sexual allegations against him, why wasn't he present at the murder?
I can think of 3 possibilities: a. he'd already left, b. his wine was spiked, or c. he hadn't yet arrived.
One interesting thing that might be useful later in the game is the ability to examine those photos a bit more closely. We know Lily's glamour wasn't perfect, so we want to see if the glamour in the photo is equally imperfect. The brooch and the the buttons can be ruled out, as she's dressed up in an actual costume, but the track marks in her leg should be visible, if we can see it.
We don't actually know for certain, and it is highly unlikely, that the last photo was taken on the day of the murder. It may have been that Crane was supposed to find that envelope, not Bigby, for the purpose of blackmail, and it is unconnected with the murders.
i agree, the envelope looked more like it was left for Crane instead of Bigby. Lily was in the Snow White dress though, so it would be hard to see any imperfections in the glamour
I played the game as a total of 3 times so far, first I questioned Dee, the second time I questioned the Woodsman and the third I chose the Woodsman again, although I don't suspect him at all, choosing him made it interesting.
If you don't go to the body immediately after speaking to TJ, you can check the mirror (woodsman ver). You can see Dee (i think), checking inside a fridge, it looks like Bigby's fridge due to the Ketchup. And Dum is waiting for someone outside in a Green car - it looks an awfully lot like Crane's. Why are they in Bigby's apartment, if it is his?
Could they be the ones that broke into Snow's apartment to get her hair and the photo for Crane?
Also, Crane applauds Bigby for capturing the Woodsman, however he acts as if Dee couldn't be involved at all and says he was at the Trip Trap! The Woodsman was at the Trip Trap the whole time, however Dee was only in for about 10 seconds and had blood on his shirt...
Why is Crane covering for Dee, but not the Woodsman when he has an alibi? Crane doesn't want violence used on Dee but doesn't mind if it's used on the Woodsman.
Crane gives me the impression he dislikes 'poor' fables. He ignored Gren when he was pleading for a search for Lily, was that either dislike in how 'poor' Gren is or that he had a plan to kill Lily?
Did he know who Lily was? Was his disgust for trolls fake?
He didn't want us to open the black market item either.
I think Dee and Dum have something to do with Crane most likely, but Crane is merely a tool being used, him and his Snow fetish could be his weakness. Maybe... Bluebeard is feeding him lies and such to manipulate him or something.
I don't know there are too many theories that can be sprung from this episode haha, but Crane is a big part of this definitely.
PS: was 'Hans' wearing a ribbon?
Oh, EDIT: 'Stop laughing at me' the Tweedles maybe?
I was wondering what exactly Bluebeard was doing with that blade? Makes you wonder if he is the one cutting heads off of the prostitutes.
the envelope with the pictures seems to appear at the last place you look (because when you are looking for something it is always in the last place you look) because the first time i played the envelope was under the bed (because i examined the bed last) and the second time i played the envelope was in the closet (because i looked there last), it's either magic or game mechanics, i can't tell
One thing to note about the smoking is there is another character who smoked the same cigarettes, Colin the pig from Ep. 1. I can't think of any motive for involvement besides the fact that he doesn't like being shunned away at the farm. The farm has been such a small part so far, but they set it up like it was to be a main storyline about how Fables are still stuck there, imprisoned basically. That will have to come into play sometime, right?
I thought of that. While examining the body, he mentions anyone with access to the right books could make a glamour. Bufkin is the librarian, he could easily have access to the necessary info. He stole Cranes wine, as RustyEnglish said, and he could be doing it because he doesn't think he will be suspected, as you just said you wouldn't!
There is however an explanation why Beauty didn't see Crane, for everyone that's confused. Early morning in the Business Office, "Call Vivian right this minute, and tell her I'm coming in early for my 'massage'. Vivian greets Bigby at the door to the strip club as mentioned by Telltale in the credits. That means Crane was there all morning, afternoon, and evening, and possibly the night.
That's true. Beauty only works nights and the next time we see Crane is the start of EP2 which is morning? I think.