Constructive criticism concerning Ep:4 Dangeresque 3

I am going to go against my forum beliefs and do something that I usually yell at others for doing... I am going to complain!

Usually, I am silent about these episodes, They don't usually inspire much of an opinion... But this time around it did, disappointment.

I know its supposed to be a parody, I get that. But my (somewhat odd) complaint was that there is too much "Dangeresque 3". The entire episode was all the same crap over and over, with no variety. Each act was some variation of "So-and-so is (blank) so we have to find (Blank) to save (blank)" rinse, repeat.

They should have had some outside exposition. I was kinda expecting to have to set things up... Recruit (or fight with) actors to get them in the picture, get stuff to make the sets, do things to get ideas for the story, etc.

All of the previous episodes had elaborate setup and conclusion stories apart from the "bread and butter" that the episode was centered on...

For example, Episode one revolved around getting Homestar out of the house, but they also told the story of how he came to be there, and the party afterwards.

Episode two centered on getting countries to join Strong Badia, but also had a first act explaining why strong bad wanted to crush the KOT, followed by what happened after he did.

Episode 3 centers on a battle royale of the bands, but also has two acts of setting up the battle royale (and of course that sweet finale).

Episode 4 Centers on the movie Dangeresque 3. Apart from that? Nothing, no set up story, no finale after the movie... Just jump right into the movie, 4 similar acts of movie story material... The end of the movie is the end of the game, now do you see where I am coming from?

On top of a single point story, Episode 4 takes 2 giant leaps back from the previous two installments... The "advanced difficulty" and "off the wall puzzle solutions" are substituted for "limited options" and "characters giving blatant hints that outright tell you what to do" Not to mention all the access restrictions, we can't see the rest of the strong house, nor the inside of marzipans...

I'm sorry... I just expected more from this episode, and it fell flat for me. Awesome extras do not make up for what the rest of the episode lacks...

Finally, The episode was obviously rushed, and it shows... I would complain about the bugs I found, but I am getting used to bug filled Strong Bad episodes by now. (P.S. Telltale really needs to consider having outside QA testers.) Anyways, I am not even going to waste my breath on that one.

You can all now begin calling me a moron for not liking the episode, but this is my opinion and i'm sticking to it.

Comments

  • ShauntronShauntron Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2008
    Ah, sorry you didn't have good time man. Hope you'll stick around for the thrilling conclusion.
  • edited November 2008
    Oh I will, (I already purchased the season pass) I just hope that Episode 5 offers more of a story then just a two hour long climax (like episode 4 was), and goes back to the random crazy puzzles I love. (Also, without the characters flat out telling me what to do!)

    (I get the feeling the episode 5 is going to be centered on
    getting multiple video game characters back into their digital worlds
    ... neat idea, I hope you guys ran with it.)
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2008
    I think throughout the season there's been an attmempt to mix up how the pacing, puzzles and storytelling style all work together from one episode to another, probably moreso than happened with Sam & Max. The upside to this is that I think it's made the episodes all feel unique structurally (episode one was more free roaming and about familiarizing yourself with and exploring the world, episode two kept very much to its militaristic march on the castle theme in the cutscenes and dialog and also how you progress through the world, episode three was the slightly more classic styled big old knot of a puzzle you unravel before the final showdown, episode four was more cinematic in focus, letting you play through Strong Bad's action movie, etc), but the downside to that, I guess, is that you might stray too far from someone's tastes in a particular episode. As Shaun said, hopefully next month's will be more in league with what you're looking for!
  • edited November 2008
    While I greatly enjoyed this episode and wasn't disappointed, I do feel that the puzzles could have been harder, my guesses during conversations were often spot on and in that sense
    the Sun
    was a bit weak (not script-wise fortunately :D).

    About design, however, the problem is that this episode was... "fan-constrained" so to speak. Because it is the third part of Dangeresque, several gags and lines had to be included to reference that, plus the structure should be similar to the flash movies too. So, setting up things with Strong Bad to later film them as Dangeresque is a good idea, but it would weaken the thought of this being Dangeresque 3 . Guess you can call it fanservice if you want, but one not-so-good episode out of four for you isn't so bad either :P

    On the other hand, 8-bit is Enough sounds awesome. Telltale+videogame parodies was a great match in Sam & Max, so I have the hype-o-meter pretty high :D
  • edited November 2008
    I liked this Episode better than the rest. Simply because it had action, a good awesomeness list, and much more.
  • edited November 2008
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Oh I will, (I already purchased the season pass) I just hope that Episode 5 offers more of a story then just a two hour long climax (like episode 4 was), and goes back to the random crazy puzzles I love. (Also, without the characters flat out telling me what to do!)

    (I get the feeling the episode 5 is going to be centered on
    getting multiple video game characters back into their digital worlds
    ... neat idea, I hope you guys ran with it.)

    Maybe it's due to
    Strong Bad accidentally unleashing a reality-bending virus, due to trying to give the Telltale Code to Videlectrix, and the only way to destroy the virus is to shotgun his Lappy!
  • edited November 2008
    I've said this before, I don't play the games for the puzzles, but for the humour. So far I've liked Episodes 2 and 4 the best from SBCG4AP and they're the most linear. However, I did notice the puzzles in this one were ridiculously easy. Which is great for me since I'm just trying to hear the next line, but not as good for someone who really wants to be engaged by the puzzles (I can always use a walk-through if they're too hard, doesn't bother me a bit).

    Also, I'm still getting the no eyes problem with Coach Z in this one, haven't had problems with any other characters yet.
  • edited November 2008
    I've enjoyed how there has been variety of structures in the pacing and plot so far, and I wasn't disappointed with Episode 4. I really liked that it was the movie, because I thought that, were it structured the same as Episode 3, it wouldn't have been Dangeresque 3, it would have been "Strong Bad's Cool Game For Attractive People Episode 4: The Making of Dangeresque 3: The Criminal Projective."

    I went into it fully expecting to just be playing the movie, because I figured that the movie would be decidedly short, were I to spend the first two acts convincing people to be in the film and building sets or gathering props or what have you.

    Not to say I think that your criticism is dumb or even unfounded. It certainly was a change of plot pacing to just jump right into it, and the pacing is certainly more movie-style and less video game-style, which will throw you.

    I really did enjoy this Episode, as I have enjoyed each one more and more as the series has gone on. I've liked the different construct of each one, and the writing keeps getting better.

    I don't think this complaint is bad, or that you're a moron or anything. I suppose we just have different tastes.

    And for that, we must fight to the death.
  • edited November 2008
    ohh yeah...fight....fight!!!

    no, just kidding. episode 4 was different and more story focused than the other ones. like a crappy, no-budget, interactive movie. i found that to be most entertaining..maybe because i used to do such movies myself when i was young.
    the point that the puzzles are to easy is perfectly valid in my opinion though. there was one puzzle that gave me a hard time..apart from that it was simply walking through the movie. still liked it.

    actually i thought the story would be centered around making the movie instead of watching it. personally i like it better the way it turned out. making the movie would be to similar to episode 3...
  • edited November 2008
    I liked this episode.
  • edited November 2008
    I’ll admit that while solving the main puzzles wasn't that difficult, retrieving the different items was at least a little bit different each time which helped to minimize the repetition. Plus getting all the items for the awesomeness levels was evil hard, so I think the total hardness of the episode overall would be about 6 on the Mohs scale, so ... Titanium. Good for making robot boots.

    To continue in a more serious vein, I really love this episode for its feel of playing through an HR toon. One reason I personally love video games is because they're a vicarious experience. You watch a movie you observe it, you play a game you come closer to living it. This does not mean I play games only for their stories, but when I play a game that reveals a story to me in a way that really makes me feel a part of it I am more than willing to cut that game a little slack. Games that are fun to play aren't uncommon, games that I want to play through again to enjoy the story aren't so readily available.

    I'm not saying this episode is the James Joyce's Ulysses of games, but it is a story set entirely in its own odd, little reality very much in the HR style with laughs, surprises and great real world references that parody movies, DVD’s and extras therein. I applaud Mr. Darin for creating an episode so in the spirit of the original cartoons while keeping it fresh and funny and not become just an homage to itself.
  • WillWill Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2008
    We won't stop till we crank it up to 11 on the Mohs scale! Diamontanium here we come!
  • edited November 2008
    My only complaint was the lack of a unique theme song for the end credits.

    And also it bothered me that when they videotaped the TV, there was no half-the-screen-flickering-black effect. If you've ever done it you know what I mean.
  • edited November 2008
    Good point, that woulda been funny.
  • edited November 2008
    Thumbs up from me, the game was relatively easy - but finding all the bonus elements was pretty hard - so something for everyone.

    Great games company, would buy from again A+++

    -m0r
  • edited November 2008
    Point taken, it is kinda cool that each episode is a bit different in its own way... But this one does kinda stand out in an odd way because its missing some elements that had become a staple of the first 3 episodes... The free roaming feeling, the gradual difficulty increase, access to a bunch of previously unaccessible areas, a TGS bit, etc.

    It was a somewhat welcome break, but episode 5 had better go out with a bang and return to this pattern... It does not need to be hard, but the hand holding and telling us what to do needs to go away, you now have 2 episodes of new locations to catch up on (the office was only a modest offering) and I would like to get one last fresh look of all the previously introduced locations and characters... is that too much to ask? (for a finale, I think not.)
  • edited November 2008
    you're totally right..episode 5 better be great. i am absolutely confident that it will be.

    another word about the difficutly: in episode 4 i even beat the mini-game or micro-game...the videlectrix game..thingy...in the first try. that was quite odd. i still couldn't get a green score on the limozeen game and it took me ages to to so in snake boxer. the space circus game was a piece of cake however. i just started playing to give it a first try and see what it's like...bam, green score. either i am pretty awesome...which i doubt..or it really is easy.
  • edited November 2008
    Glad to see I wasn't the only one who didn't really enjoy this episode.

    Don't get me wrong, the whole amature video thing was funny, but I just don't think it made an enjoyable game.

    Can't complain too badly though; if Telltale tried to stick to the norm every time we'd never have had some of their best episodes.
  • edited November 2008
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    I know its supposed to be a parody, I get that. But my (somewhat odd) complaint was that there is too much "Dangeresque 3". The entire episode was all the same crap over and over, with no variety. Each act was some variation of "So-and-so is (blank) so we have to find (Blank) to save (blank)" rinse, repeat.
    Similar to some of today's blockbusters.
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    They should have had some outside exposition. I was kinda expecting to have to set things up... Recruit (or fight with) actors to get them in the picture, get stuff to make the sets, do things to get ideas for the story, etc.

    I thought it would be making the film not look like **** as well, but I enjoyed seeing a longer version of the backyard film. And it's hard to make Dangeresque not bad
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    All of the previous episodes had elaborate setup and conclusion stories apart from the "bread and butter" that the episode was centered on...

    For example, Episode one revolved around getting Homestar out of the house, but they also told the story of how he came to be there, and the party afterwards.

    Episode two centered on getting countries to join Strong Badia, but also had a first act explaining why strong bad wanted to crush the KOT, followed by what happened after he did.

    Episode 3 centers on a battle royale of the bands, but also has two acts of setting up the battle royale (and of course that sweet finale).

    Episode 4 Centers on the movie Dangeresque 3. Apart from that? Nothing, no set up story, no finale after the movie... Just jump right into the movie, 4 similar acts of movie story material... The end of the movie is the end of the game, now do you see where I am coming from?
    It's a home movie. What did you expect? Star Wars? And I already said I thought TellTale did not go with the, "The movie's falling apart, and YOU need to fix it!" plot. What do you think would happen after the movie. Strong Bad appeases the cast by sitting at his editing kit (not the Lappy) and entering the the *Sarcasm* un-tedious *Sarcasm* world of movie editing?
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    On top of a single point story, Episode 4 takes 2 giant leaps back from the previous two installments... The "advanced difficulty" and "off the wall puzzle solutions" are substituted for "limited options" and "characters giving blatant hints that outright tell you what to do" Not to mention all the access restrictions, we can't see the rest of the strong house, nor the inside of marzipans...

    No comment.
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    Finally, The episode was obviously rushed, and it shows... I would complain about the bugs I found, but I am getting used to bug filled Strong Bad episodes by now.
    I encountered no glitches whatsoever. I was pleased with it. Not amazed, but I still found it hilarious.
  • edited November 2008
    ig0rpwnwEd wrote: »
    I encountered no glitches whatsoever.
    Congratulations! You just registered the 100,000th post on the TellTaleGames Forums. (I noticed this as I hit reply.)


    Anyway, DangerZone is much more likely to find glitches because he's pretty dedicated in his pursuit of "Play-It-All" stuff. It seems that he uses every item on everyone and every thing at every point in every possible plot progression. (Either that, or he spends a couple of hours listening to the entire episode's dialogue files looking for ideas about things to try.)

    I did notice a number of strange glitches myself, though - even things that I would have expected to have been tested away.
    (For instance, when you obtain the formula a second time which is NECESSARY for one of the collectibles, Coach Z's dialogue is spoken by a non-existent Z.)
  • MarkDarinMarkDarin Former Telltale Staff
    edited November 2008
    ...For instance, when you obtain the formula a second time which is NECESSARY for one of the collectibles...

    For the record, the second formula isn't necessary, you can also use the cola directly on the stick.
  • WillWill Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2008
    ...even things that I would have expected to have been tested away.
    (For instance, when you obtain the formula a second time which is NECESSARY for one of the collectibles, Coach Z's dialogue is spoken by a non-existent Z.)

    Yeah, that's one of those bugs that we actually found but weren't able to fix before the Wii build went out. One thing to consider when we find last minute bugs like that is how safely can we fix it and if we can we fix it in time for the game to hit the launch window.

    For this particular example, it was a case of either fixing the bug and making a new build (which would require a whole new round of testing, potentially break other things, and cause the game to be delayed by at least another week, if not two), or letting it go out. When only a small percentage of Wii players are likely to see this bug (a harmless bug at that), sometimes you just have to suck it up and ship it. Now obviously if it were something critical and/or game breaking, then yeah of course you delay the launch.

    Anyway, just thought I'd give you a little window into game testing and development.
  • edited November 2008
    I think that this episode is the best so far.
    (I have yet to finish it though)
    (And I've only have Strong Badia the Free and this one.)
    Anyways, I would go as far as to say that this episode is the homestarrunner.com twist on the word "epic".
  • edited November 2008
    Congratulations! You just registered the 100,000th post on the TellTaleGames Forums. (I noticed this as I hit reply.)

    I did? Seriously? Yaaaaaaaay! I'm special! My mommy always said that! Bushes are nice, cause they don't have prickers! Unless they do... this one did, ouch!
  • edited November 2008
    I have to say that I was a bit disappointed as well. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the hell out of it (especially the ingenious Extended Play), but it just seemed extremely short and easy. I had some puzzles halfway solved before I even knew that the puzzle existed.

    On the positive side, the humor was fantastic. Even the least funny lines left me with a smirk.
  • edited November 2008
    Dangerzone wrote: »
    ...the episode was obviously rushed, and it shows...

    I really think they just did that to be able to work harder on the finale, and while it's true that having one episode be half of a completely arbitrary standard episode length and another be a half longer, it's also key to have a finale that's as epic as possible.
  • edited November 2008
    Yep. I agree with most of this. I have had a week catching up after buying the season and have played all 4 episodes over this week. This episode was definitely the weakest puzzles wise. Ironically, as the episode with the most locations, it seemed the most linear.

    It was hilarious however.

    This is probably all because of Telltale experimenting and trying to keep the episodes fresh, which is all we can hope for to be honest. It's not going to be perfect every time.

    Can't believe I have to wait a whole month for ep 5 now! I'm gonna get withdrawl symptoms after this four episode mega week I just had.
  • edited November 2008
    I definitely agree that this was a very easy episode. The one thing that really gave me trouble was
    catching Sultry Buttons
    . However, it was also the best-written episode.

    In a way the easiness of the puzzles serves the episode well, because it's supposed to feel sort of like a movie and so getting stuck for a long time kind of breaks the flow. And it's hard to allow a whole lot of room for that while maintaining the movie facade; the characters can't talk about it quite as freely as usual. I'm not saying there's no way to overcome that obstacle, just that it's an obstacle. For the most part, it was a success.
  • edited November 2008
    I thought Dangeresque 3: The Criminal Projective was the best episode yet. I loved all the parodies of bad movie storylines and I thought the dialogue was all very clever and a couple of the puzzles were very cool. I probably laughed out loud the most during this episode too. Over all, I was impressed with Telltale, as always. I really do think that each episode so far has been better than the last.
  • edited December 2008
    Each episode's different feel is something I love and expect from both H*R and TTG. I think Dangeresque was a high quality game. (it was easy, but at least that means that there will be an episode that my sister can play and not have to bug me about every couple of minutes.) Looking forward to 8 bit is enough.
  • edited December 2008
    Will wrote: »
    Now obviously if it were something critical and/or game breaking, then yeah of course you delay the launch.
    You mean like Islamic lyrics in some song?

    But anyway, aside from the bugs present in the previous games (loss of sound at certain moments), this game has one immersion-breaking glitch.

    A-let me show it to you, with my high-tech photo-realistic Snappy.

    [img]http://www.multiverseworks.com/garycxjkrandomstuff/12-04-08 21_26_33.png[/img]
  • edited December 2008
    That doesn't seem that bad, in the same category as the sticky hands glitch.
  • edited December 2008
    I had that same problem, but it kinda helped me out. It showed up where the cutscene would film from when you had to "nunchuck" somebody. So if you ever saw that, you haven't gotten the cutscene yet, which means you haven't nunchucked the character it's near.
  • edited December 2008
    Despite that SBCG4AP Ep III was incredibly easy, I was impressed with the "Dangeresque adventure" storyline in this game, and I liked the use of movie-making humor.
  • edited December 2008
    Holyxion wrote: »
    That doesn't seem that bad, in the same category as having the metal detector stuck to your hand.

    Yeah, I believe that triggered the glitch.
  • edited December 2008
    It actually works with any thing, I got it with the nunchuk gun as well, I think even once with a bag of potate(which was actually pretty funny)! A variant even occurred one time in S&M 106 with the gunshot FX.
  • edited December 2008
    Will wrote: »
    Yeah, that's one of those bugs that we actually found but weren't able to fix before the Wii build went out. One thing to consider when we find last minute bugs like that is how safely can we fix it and if we can we fix it in time for the game to hit the launch window.

    For this particular example, it was a case of either fixing the bug and making a new build (which would require a whole new round of testing, potentially break other things, and cause the game to be delayed by at least another week, if not two), or letting it go out. When only a small percentage of Wii players are likely to see this bug (a harmless bug at that), sometimes you just have to suck it up and ship it. Now obviously if it were something critical and/or game breaking, then yeah of course you delay the launch.

    Anyway, just thought I'd give you a little window into game testing and development.

    When the retail, or bonus dvd, version comes out will these things be taken care of?
  • edited December 2008
    I definitely agree that this was a very easy episode. The one thing that really gave me trouble was
    catching Sultry Buttons.

    First of all, I had trouble with
    the Sultry Buttons problem
    as well. I had to go to these forums to find the solution to that!

    Second of all, I didn't like this episode at first, but at the end of it all, I loved it. So I guess it grew on me.
  • edited December 2008
    This has been my favorite episode so far. After the shock of 'Oh, I'm playing a Homestar Runner Video Game' from the first settled down, I took time to reflect on each game.

    Episode 4 so far is my favorite game. I really enjoyed the fact that the story seemed to click with the right amount of humor and situations. Extended play as the special edition DVD is great, and a nice way to mix it up. I spent a lot of time laughing at movie, and even I could guess kind of what is coming up, it still felt fresh and humorous. Hands down, my favorite part about whole episode was the cardboard sets. Like you would of done if you had a camera, and were 13 years old.

    The episode didn't come out perfect, there were some problems with scenes, and the lack of difficulty. I was never stumped in this episode, I just seemed to keep chugging along with just one 'what do I do here' (and that was potted plan in the shark pond)

    If I would change ONE thing about SBCG4AP. Since episode 1, I expected a new intro song for each episode, and I was quite dissapointed when episode 2 didn't have one, Every time I started a new episode, I really wanted a new intro song... Maybe for Episode 5, or season 2.

    Overall Telltale, excellent job. Get the bugs out of your scripting and rendering engines, and I'd have no complaints.
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