So what? I haven't seen any indication of him being a good ruler, or at least one of the good rulers. Granted, I haven't seen any proof of him being a bad ruler, but that doesn't mean he is a good ruler.
Well fine, if you want serious points, then Jon demonstrated good leadership at the Battle at The Wall and handled himself extremely well when meeting with the wildlings. He made tough decisions like sending his friend down into the tunnels to fend off the giant and made good executive calls like advocating that they flood the tunnels and going after the mutineers at Craster to prevent Mance from finding out about how weak they were.
In that case, yes, maybe something would've worked. He seems to be a good military leader, but, then again, he was fighting the wildlings at the Wall. I'm not sure how his talents would work against the armies of the "southerners". Though, given enough resources, he might have handled it. Still, I don't think he is fit to be one of the Westeros' rulers. Not to mention that his status at the moment is unknown.
And, jokes or not, his sexual relations with Ygritte is a violation of his oaths (yes, that can be kind of argued, but it is a violation), it certainly does not speak in his favor.
Well fine, if you want serious points, then Jon demonstrated good leadership at the Battle at The Wall and handled himself extremely well wh… moreen meeting with the wildlings. He made tough decisions like sending his friend down into the tunnels to fend off the giant and made good executive calls like advocating that they flood the tunnels and going after the mutineers at Craster to prevent Mance from finding out about how weak they were.
Even if you believe the Blackfyre theory (I do) black or red, a dragon is still a dragon and as long as he seems legit, people will be willing to accept the lie and Young Griff will succeed Tommen!
I see Jon being one of the rulers, although not as involved in political matters as Daenarys and Tyrion. By the end 'R+L=J' will perhaps become common knowledge and Jon will become a possible heir for Rhaegar and one who I think Westeros would be more accepting of than Daenarys or Tyrion, despite his birth status. Daenarys could very easily frighten and alienate Westeros with her dragons and 'foreignness' (if that makes sense) and until he's given the title of ruler/coruler, people will always look down upon Tyrion. Since Tyrion and Daenarys seem to be joining forces, I could see a marriage/political alliance involving Jon to keep the peace and settling the whole dispute of succession. That might just result in his going back to the Wall or returning Winterfell to the Starks, and leaving the governing aspect largely to the other two save for big issues, etc. etc... But he would at least have the title of ruler to appease the Westerosi people and would hold some degree of agency over them.
Plus he would make a good fit with the whole 'three headed dragon' concept which I think could return to Westeros with Daenarys' arrival/succession... Daenarys would be the head of one (for obvious reasons) and Tyrion will perhaps as his fascination with dragons is foreshadowing. Jon could make the third head in the sense that he is half-Targaryen.
I realise the political situation is way more complex and broad than this and that I'm ignoring characters who could undermine this theory (e.g. Aegon), but I expect at least some aspect of this to come into play in GoT. It is true that we don't have any indication of his potential as a power figure, but he would certainly make an honorable leader at the very least... And after where he's been left off in the books and regarding the incident, I feel like there's something bigger for him being planned by both the show and the books.
I can understand Tyrion, he's pretty much a natural choice. I can even kind of understand Daenerys, but not Jon.
Why is Jon Snow a good choice to be at the helm of this so-called oligarchy?
Even if you believe the Blackfyre theory (I do) black or red, a dragon is still a dragon and as long as he seems legit, people will be willing to accept the lie and Young Griff will succeed Tommen!
It wasn't confirmed whether he is a son of Rhaegar or not. It certainly wasn't disproved. Granted, he could be anyone of Valyrian descent, it's not like they can check, but we can't say for certain if he is Illyrio's son, or Rhaegar's, or even some random boy of Valyrian blood. We don't know anything yet, but I wouldn't discount the idea of him being Rhaegar's son.
Sure there's a whole lot that hasn't been confirmed within the text, but more than anything I just dont like Varys' baby switching and would rather go with an alternate explanation. Youre right of course it cant be ruled out
It wasn't confirmed whether he is a son of Rhaegar or not. It certainly wasn't disproved. Granted, he could be anyone of Valyrian descent, i… moret's not like they can check, but we can't say for certain if he is Illyrio's son, or Rhaegar's, or even some random boy of Valyrian blood. We don't know anything yet, but I wouldn't discount the idea of him being Rhaegar's son.
Varys was seemingly loyal to Targaryens (he was the one who argued against letting Lannisters into King's Landing, while Pycelle, loyal to Lannisters, argued that they should be let inside, and this is just one example), so the baby switching could've been a desperate attempt to save their line.
Sure there's a whole lot that hasn't been confirmed within the text, but more than anything I just dont like Varys' baby switching and would rather go with an alternate explanation. Youre right of course it cant be ruled out
I don't think Varys is a Targ loyalist otherwise he'd have done a better job protecting Viserys and Dany, Illyrio only took them briefly into his Mance before endangering them with the Dothraki. I think Varys like everyone else is loyal to himself and whether he's a Blackfyre as well or connected to the Faceless Men somehow i dont know, but the baby switching feels a bit messy, literally, as it relied partially on Gregor's brutality!
Varys was seemingly loyal to Targaryens (he was the one who argued against letting Lannisters into King's Landing, while Pycelle, loyal to L… moreannisters, argued that they should be let inside, and this is just one example), so the baby switching could've been a desperate attempt to save their line.
Well, he was the one, who contacted Jorah, which prevented (yeah, I know it's pretty much his own plot) Daenerys' assassination while she was in the Free Cities. Yeah, he should have done a better job protecting them, but, then again, he was one of the few who did anything at all. He might be loyal to himself, after all, but he still did a lot to help the Targaryens. The baby switching was messy, yes, but if it is, indeed, true, he saved the future prince's life.
I don't think Varys is a Targ loyalist otherwise he'd have done a better job protecting Viserys and Dany, Illyrio only took them briefly int… moreo his Mance before endangering them with the Dothraki. I think Varys like everyone else is loyal to himself and whether he's a Blackfyre as well or connected to the Faceless Men somehow i dont know, but the baby switching feels a bit messy, literally, as it relied partially on Gregor's brutality!
Is no one going to mention Littlefinger ? I mean, have you read the fifth book ? He's the most cunning character in Westeros, and he has a brilliant plan. I don't even know if he'll be the official king, but I think there's a good chance he'll be the true power behind the throne.
Is no one going to mention Littlefinger ? I mean, have you read the fifth book ? He's the most cunning character in Westeros, and he has a b… morerilliant plan. I don't even know if he'll be the official king, but I think there's a good chance he'll be the true power behind the throne.
I know they're technically the "baddies" of the books, and will probably meet a gruesome end, but actually, they're the ones who deserve it. Except for that little shit of Theon and Euron.
oh, who am I kidding. Evene if they had the chance to win the iron throne, the greyjoys wouldn't even want it. They just want to be left alone and free to do whatever the fuck they want.
Daenerys, Stannis and Jon snow are just a bunch of pansies. All they accomplish is based on help from others. They can't do shit on their own.
If Stannis hadn't melisandre that used his demonspawn to murder his enemies, he would've lost to Renly. Daenerys needed to plead help from a band of barbarians just to not end up dead. Jon Snow is just a kid who can't make up his own mind.
If all, the only who truly deserved the iron throne are either dead or physically deformed
The Greyjoys power come with their ships they would have no power inland Westeros. They may be able to hold a significant part of the east though but they will never win the Iron Throne.
Greyjoys for the win.
I know they're technically the "baddies" of the books, and will probably meet a gruesome end, but actually, they're… more the ones who deserve it. Except for that little shit of Theon and Euron.
oh, who am I kidding. Evene if they had the chance to win the iron throne, the greyjoys wouldn't even want it. They just want to be left alone and free to do whatever the fuck they want.
Daenerys, Stannis and Jon snow are just a bunch of pansies. All they accomplish is based on help from others. They can't do shit on their own.
If Stannis hadn't melisandre that used his demonspawn to murder his enemies, he would've lost to Renly. Daenerys needed to plead help from a band of barbarians just to not end up dead. Jon Snow is just a kid who can't make up his own mind.
If all, the only who truly deserved the iron throne are either dead or physically deformed
I feel like he'll crash and burn at some point, although I have no evidence for that. He's made one major mistake already (kissing Sansa) and that almost fucked everything up. Clearly Sansa is his weakness and Baelish plays a high risk game and next time he slips up things might go wrong for him in a big way.. once Sansa starts playing the game herself. (Also sorry to be a dick but Baelish didn't appear in book 5!)
Is no one going to mention Littlefinger ? I mean, have you read the fifth book ? He's the most cunning character in Westeros, and he has a b… morerilliant plan. I don't even know if he'll be the official king, but I think there's a good chance he'll be the true power behind the throne.
I'm just saying that the fact the Ironborn managed to rebuild the Iron fleet (which alone is bigger that the fleets of all the other six kingdoms combined), rebuild their military manpower and launch another invasion of the Continent in just 9 years after their utter defeat at the hands of Robert Baratheon proves how resourceful and strong-willed they are.
Even if richer, the other six kingdoms simply lack spine. I agree that they would't manage to control the inland of westeros though. Unless they build another Harrenhall.
The Greyjoys power come with their ships they would have no power inland Westeros. They may be able to hold a significant part of the east though but they will never win the Iron Throne.
A lot of people seem to hate him, but I love Stannis, because he's just such a cold-blooded asshole that won't back down from his right even if it means hundreds of thousands of men die, being burned alive in Wildfire.
I'm just saying that the fact the Ironborn managed to rebuild the Iron fleet (which alone is bigger that the fleets of all the other six kin… moregdoms combined), rebuild their military manpower and launch another invasion of the Continent in just 9 years after their utter defeat at the hands of Robert Baratheon proves how resourceful and strong-willed they are.
Even if richer, the other six kingdoms simply lack spine. I agree that they would't manage to control the inland of westeros though. Unless they build another Harrenhall.
But these are just conjectrures and fanboysm
I wouldn't rule out Dany just yet, as there is some interesting magic in this world according to Melisandre.
But I think it's obvious who (or what) will win: Winter.
According to Martin, he envisions a snowstorm blowing over everyone's gravestones at the end of his story, if I recall correctly.
But TV show Stannis has been written as kind of a dick, as opposed to the more morally grey book Stannis. I'm not sure there's any realistic candidate in the TV show I'd like to see rule anything.
I feel like he'll crash and burn at some point, although I have no evidence for that. He's made one major mistake already (kissing Sansa) an… mored that almost fucked everything up. Clearly Sansa is his weakness and Baelish plays a high risk game and next time he slips up things might go wrong for him in a big way.. once Sansa starts playing the game herself. (Also sorry to be a dick but Baelish didn't appear in book 5!)
Tyrion all the way..
Jon Snow or Littlefinger are two of my favourites for the throne too (a)
but seeing what Martin is doing in the books , i guess the King will be someone totally unexpected
everyone has his favourites . Littlefinger is a mind master , if he was king i doubt anyone would be able to throw him out of there... the only person i see capable is Tyrion but he is my n1 in the list x)
Comments
Wordplay.
My point remains unchanged.
Well fine, if you want serious points, then Jon demonstrated good leadership at the Battle at The Wall and handled himself extremely well when meeting with the wildlings. He made tough decisions like sending his friend down into the tunnels to fend off the giant and made good executive calls like advocating that they flood the tunnels and going after the mutineers at Craster to prevent Mance from finding out about how weak they were.
In that case, yes, maybe something would've worked. He seems to be a good military leader, but, then again, he was fighting the wildlings at the Wall. I'm not sure how his talents would work against the armies of the "southerners". Though, given enough resources, he might have handled it. Still, I don't think he is fit to be one of the Westeros' rulers. Not to mention that his status at the moment is unknown.
And, jokes or not, his sexual relations with Ygritte is a violation of his oaths (yes, that can be kind of argued, but it is a violation), it certainly does not speak in his favor.
Even if you believe the Blackfyre theory (I do) black or red, a dragon is still a dragon and as long as he seems legit, people will be willing to accept the lie and Young Griff will succeed Tommen!
I see Jon being one of the rulers, although not as involved in political matters as Daenarys and Tyrion. By the end 'R+L=J' will perhaps become common knowledge and Jon will become a possible heir for Rhaegar and one who I think Westeros would be more accepting of than Daenarys or Tyrion, despite his birth status. Daenarys could very easily frighten and alienate Westeros with her dragons and 'foreignness' (if that makes sense) and until he's given the title of ruler/coruler, people will always look down upon Tyrion. Since Tyrion and Daenarys seem to be joining forces, I could see a marriage/political alliance involving Jon to keep the peace and settling the whole dispute of succession. That might just result in his going back to the Wall or returning Winterfell to the Starks, and leaving the governing aspect largely to the other two save for big issues, etc. etc... But he would at least have the title of ruler to appease the Westerosi people and would hold some degree of agency over them.
Plus he would make a good fit with the whole 'three headed dragon' concept which I think could return to Westeros with Daenarys' arrival/succession... Daenarys would be the head of one (for obvious reasons) and Tyrion will perhaps as his fascination with dragons is foreshadowing. Jon could make the third head in the sense that he is half-Targaryen.
I realise the political situation is way more complex and broad than this and that I'm ignoring characters who could undermine this theory (e.g. Aegon), but I expect at least some aspect of this to come into play in GoT. It is true that we don't have any indication of his potential as a power figure, but he would certainly make an honorable leader at the very least... And after where he's been left off in the books and regarding the incident, I feel like there's something bigger for him being planned by both the show and the books.
Blackfyres are the bastard line of Targaryens, which means they still pretty much qualify.
True but since he's not Rhaegar's son (probably Illyrio's) his claim is no better than any of the other pretenders
It wasn't confirmed whether he is a son of Rhaegar or not. It certainly wasn't disproved. Granted, he could be anyone of Valyrian descent, it's not like they can check, but we can't say for certain if he is Illyrio's son, or Rhaegar's, or even some random boy of Valyrian blood. We don't know anything yet, but I wouldn't discount the idea of him being Rhaegar's son.
Sure there's a whole lot that hasn't been confirmed within the text, but more than anything I just dont like Varys' baby switching and would rather go with an alternate explanation. Youre right of course it cant be ruled out
Varys was seemingly loyal to Targaryens (he was the one who argued against letting Lannisters into King's Landing, while Pycelle, loyal to Lannisters, argued that they should be let inside, and this is just one example), so the baby switching could've been a desperate attempt to save their line.
I don't think Varys is a Targ loyalist otherwise he'd have done a better job protecting Viserys and Dany, Illyrio only took them briefly into his Mance before endangering them with the Dothraki. I think Varys like everyone else is loyal to himself and whether he's a Blackfyre as well or connected to the Faceless Men somehow i dont know, but the baby switching feels a bit messy, literally, as it relied partially on Gregor's brutality!
Well, he was the one, who contacted Jorah, which prevented (yeah, I know it's pretty much his own plot) Daenerys' assassination while she was in the Free Cities. Yeah, he should have done a better job protecting them, but, then again, he was one of the few who did anything at all. He might be loyal to himself, after all, but he still did a lot to help the Targaryens. The baby switching was messy, yes, but if it is, indeed, true, he saved the future prince's life.
Is no one going to mention Littlefinger ? I mean, have you read the fifth book ? He's the most cunning character in Westeros, and he has a brilliant plan. I don't even know if he'll be the official king, but I think there's a good chance he'll be the true power behind the throne.
I approve this message.
Stannis. Robb's corpse. Tyrion. Hodor.
Just keep Daenerys away from it.
Greyjoys for the win.
I know they're technically the "baddies" of the books, and will probably meet a gruesome end, but actually, they're the ones who deserve it. Except for that little shit of Theon and Euron.
oh, who am I kidding. Evene if they had the chance to win the iron throne, the greyjoys wouldn't even want it. They just want to be left alone and free to do whatever the fuck they want.
Daenerys, Stannis and Jon snow are just a bunch of pansies. All they accomplish is based on help from others. They can't do shit on their own.
If Stannis hadn't melisandre that used his demonspawn to murder his enemies, he would've lost to Renly. Daenerys needed to plead help from a band of barbarians just to not end up dead. Jon Snow is just a kid who can't make up his own mind.
If all, the only who truly deserved the iron throne are either dead or physically deformed
The Greyjoys power come with their ships they would have no power inland Westeros. They may be able to hold a significant part of the east though but they will never win the Iron Throne.
I feel like he'll crash and burn at some point, although I have no evidence for that. He's made one major mistake already (kissing Sansa) and that almost fucked everything up. Clearly Sansa is his weakness and Baelish plays a high risk game and next time he slips up things might go wrong for him in a big way.. once Sansa starts playing the game herself. (Also sorry to be a dick but Baelish didn't appear in book 5!)
I'm just saying that the fact the Ironborn managed to rebuild the Iron fleet (which alone is bigger that the fleets of all the other six kingdoms combined), rebuild their military manpower and launch another invasion of the Continent in just 9 years after their utter defeat at the hands of Robert Baratheon proves how resourceful and strong-willed they are.
Even if richer, the other six kingdoms simply lack spine. I agree that they would't manage to control the inland of westeros though. Unless they build another Harrenhall.
But these are just conjectrures and fanboysm
This.
Jon Snow ...naturally
A lot of people seem to hate him, but I love Stannis, because he's just such a cold-blooded asshole that won't back down from his right even if it means hundreds of thousands of men die, being burned alive in Wildfire.
But Stannis be like:
'Fuck it, I want mah throne, motherfuckers!'
Stannis master race!
Good Point. I have hated the Ironborn with a passion since they invaded the North so I am a little biased.
I wouldn't rule out Dany just yet, as there is some interesting magic in this world according to Melisandre.
But I think it's obvious who (or what) will win: Winter.
According to Martin, he envisions a snowstorm blowing over everyone's gravestones at the end of his story, if I recall correctly.
In the book? Stannis.
But TV show Stannis has been written as kind of a dick, as opposed to the more morally grey book Stannis. I'm not sure there's any realistic candidate in the TV show I'd like to see rule anything.
You weren't a dick, you just reminded me that I have to read the books again, because obviously my memory is failing me ^^
Petyr Baelish / Littlefinger ! Sometimes, the good guys have to win too.
The Imp. That little guy is a badass.
Maybe they'll get rid of the Iron Throne. Ever think about that?
Hodor will win the throne. I read it, in a very old book.
Stannis Baratheon
Let all true men declare their loyalty.
Yes, ANYONE but Dany.
Get Schooled Fools
Tyrion all the way..
Jon Snow or Littlefinger are two of my favourites for the throne too (a)
but seeing what Martin is doing in the books , i guess the King will be someone totally unexpected
Littlefinger wtf?
everyone has his favourites . Littlefinger is a mind master , if he was king i doubt anyone would be able to throw him out of there... the only person i see capable is Tyrion but he is my n1 in the list x)