Do choices matter? Telltale advertises this as a selling point, but isn't it false advertising?
bigbaadwolf
Banned
I have been playing TT's games since TWD S1 like many people. I've gotten all of them at launch. One thing that grates me more than anything else, is that TT has persisted in advertising "your choices matter" even though everyone who has played all their games would know that this is pure BS.
Do they not know, that what they're saying basically amounts to false advertising? They leave themselves open to legal action and the such.
I sincerely believe their games have decent stories as it is, but I vehemently disagree with needing to sell the game on a premise that is fallacious and incorrect at best.
Yes, your decisions can make slight differences. Yes, you can change the attitude of people around you to some extent (although even this has been less prevalent post-TWDS1). Yes, you can choose to save a character, but that character always dies in short time anyways, or is rendered as a background character.
But, ultimately you cannot influence the "story" as their store page descriptions claim. "Big decisions" are always an illusion. They make the unsuspecting gamer think that they have influenced the outcome of the story, when in truth that is far from the case.
For Game of Thrones, they claim: "You will take on the role of different members of the Forrester household, and determine their fate through the choices you make; your actions and decisions will change the story around you."
What do you make of this? Do you think Telltale should remove said selling point from their store pages on all platforms? If somebody were to challenge them, would it possible for them to have a legitimate case?
Comments
Sometimes they do.
Sometimes they don't.
I think they mattered reasonably well in The Walking Dead. Also, they can matter in Tales from the Borderlands.
However, they really handled it badly in Game of Thrones.
Well what comes to important decisions in this first episode I think the ones that might have actually mattered are who you chose as sentinel, who you told about the grove and maybe the decision(s) about trusting Sera.
I agree the choices had some tangible impact in TWD S1. Even in the first episode you can see that. But TWD S2 and TWAU...there really wasn't anything even remotely "big". Of course, TWD S2 had multiple endings, but the endings were ONLY affected by decisions you made towards the end of episode 5. Your choices and decisions made earlier meant squat.
Tales from the Borderlands, and particularly Game of Thrones, seem even more rail-roaded, when you compare to the season premieres of the three games before them. Doesn't bode well really. You'd think that as time passes by and TT gains more experience crafting these sort of games, the choices and player agency will be more impactful, long lasting and complex. Sadly, it seems we are going on a downwards sloping curve here.
Telltale seem to be resting on their laurels, content to rake in the profits from those who have bought into the promises made by them.
At least, that's my opinion on things as they stand.
They never said this. But whenever you turn the game on you're always greeted with that huge "THE STORY IS TAILORED BY HOW YOU PLAY" that almost everyone seems to miss.
This does happen in the game at all times, save X character or not? you change the story around you. Pick X item or not? you change the story around you, etc.
Tales from the Borderlands has you have the option of killing or sparing a major character. So I wouldn't agree with that.
@bigbaadwolf - Telltale Games are already best in what they do ! And I am sure that we all enjoy in the labour of their work
But :
1.In the near future similar company will appear and what than ?
2.If TTG whand to prevail - they will have to make (at least) 2 big story paths - which I have no doubts is double effords - double work (& time) for them
3.They are already good for now- they are making something good with as much minimum work as they can (which is no SMALL work)
4.BUT if they really wannt to make LEGENDARY games and be LEGENDS for the years to come - we all know what they should do
**P.S. **And I am sure they know it too
P.S.2 If TTG doesn't change - they will be labeled in near future as - non-interactive animated movies...
How much do you want to bet that the major character either dies during the first half of the second episode, or if he survives beyond that, he will be rendered useless (a background prop)?
What 'matters' is not objective. A change in dialogue may not 'matter' to you but it can't be argued that it matters in some respect and yes choices do get bigger than that. So no your case would be very weak and I would be surprised if it came out in your favor.
Edit: Nevermind the majority of this post. I guess it was a mistake in posting it. But . . .
Who knew there would be a day where I actually agree with Clem_is_awesome?
Whoever you are accusing him of being it matters not, and has very little to do with the game. Whether legal action should be taken against telltale games depends on how disappointed and cheated you feel. The game is NOT crafted based on your action, SPOILER ALERT:
Whether i let Ramsy in the castle or wait at the gate, he still kills Ethan, no matter what dipolomatic stuff i throw at him.
Characters in this game are made to avoid any proper dialogue or response, so when you think you've accomplished something they put you in the ground. This is not the way it should be at all. There are so many more reasonable lines that could have been added to the game, things that you and i would say that would make sense and calm the situation, the way it is now is just too black and white, but enemy characters will do what they want regardless of your actions.
I also had a choice to let Ramsy and Whitehill in the castle ALONE,, without escort, escort waited on the other side of the closed gate, and somehow , when Ramsy became a cunt either way, he calls inside his soldiers whether you left them at the gate or not, if you left them at the gate THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.
Also, what the HELL is stopping Ethan from telling GUARDS to SIEZE THEM and put Ramsy and Whitehills head on a spike?? Why isn't that choice included?
The game could have been beautifly crafted, but this is just a cartoon version of game of thrones in which you have little to do with what will happen anyway.
I find it ridiculously funny how almost everyone catches "Choices matter" watchword and let it guide them throughout the whole game without thinking about nothing else but how disappointed they are afterwards.
Telltale makes games, and games have their own canon storyline. It'd be impossible to create a game which changes completely after each choice. We can see our decison affect the story in greater or lesser importance, and it's just the enjoyable opportunity for the player to see slightly different versions of the game itself.
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/87719/i-am-huge-fun-of-telltale-games-but
One of my posts from the above link:
If Ethan lived, it would likely lead to two quite different stories, so it was necessary for the story they want to tell. Imagine the workload for Telltale, who only have 4 - 8 weeks to make an episode (an estimate), if each episode were to have diverging plots (not just minor details changing). And this is only the 1st episode of 6.
That said, yes, the broad story arc will likely remain the same, but minor things can change. Like, Malcolm may or may not be in Essos. Who have you got as the sentinel? Did you ask for Tyrion's help/get on his good side? If I'm correct, all of that can change the 'next episode' preview. So, it shows our choices are having minor effects. And honestly, I was quite pleased with the amount of callbacks to previous actions/dialog choices in the 1st episode alone. (Then, not shown in the next episode preview, that bit about Gared's mission might crop up again too, depending on who you told.) So, those are changes going forward for at least episode 2
It seems to be more reactive than Telltale's other games so far. I mean, whether you ask Margaery for help is referenced, what the Queen thought, your promise as Ethan to his sister regarding whether you'll change or not, and you get to see what happened to Margaery if you asked her for help. What you chose to do with the thief. Yes, it's all minor dialog changes and such, but it still counts.
It might not be entire scene changes like in Wolf (where you choose to go and in what order), but honestly, I was quite disappointed that previous actions weren't referenced much in that game. Didn't make much difference. Maybe another playthrough is called for though. It's possible I'm remembering wrong, but it certainly didn't seem like dialog changed as much as it did in GoT.
(And something that people might want to read when it comes choices mattering and interactive fiction: https://www.choiceofgames.com/2011/07/by-the-numbers-how-to-write-a-long-interactive-novel-that-doesnt-suck/)
As an aside, I didn't try the episode multiple times and chose for Ethan to meet Ramsay in the hall, so I can't comment on the other option. It could be there is a fault there. That said, Ethan dying is obviously necessary for the story they want to tell. if he lived, it'd probably throw the story they have in mind out of whack, leading to divergent stories and a pretty big workload for Telltale that honestly wouldn't be feasible.
And actually, if the person is who I think it is, they don't own the game. Could be they've watched a playthrough, but still.
PS: Sorry if I seem to be getting a bit ratty as well. But it feels to me like choices are mattering more in GoT than in their other games(feels like people have unrealistic expectations), due to the callbacks to previous choices and the next episode preview looking like it's shaped by them. Rather than criticising, even if choices still aren't mattering as much as we'd hope, we should really be saying good job while possibly making it clear we still hope for more. For instance, how many times were past choices mentioned in Wolf? If you've not played previous Telltale games though, this really doesn't apply to you. I'm just assuming you have.
"This game series adapts to the choices you make. The story is tailored by how you play."
Just read that and tell me what the exact claim is. The story isn't "built upon" how you play. It's "tailored" by how you play.
See word tailor, non literal meaning: "make or adapt for a particular purpose or person."
So... if you say "I hate you" and the next line from the person standing next to you is "Hey man, what did I do?" That's tailoring.
I agree. I posted to this thread earlier about the choices that "mattered" in the episode 1 and it was actually a bad choice of word since what I meant were choices that have (or might have) bigger effects to the story.
I don't see the word tailored anywhere on the store page. I quoted the exact text at the bottom of my post above.
In any case, even the way how people react to you seem to matter less and is less frequent when you compare to the first season of TWD, where is was a big thing.
And in any case, if all you change is the behaviour of people towards you, it still doesn't change, or tailor, the story around you.
Exactly. Is it just me as well that sees choices having more callbacks for GoT than in Wolf too? Maybe Walking Dead: Season 2 as well, though I remember playing the finale recently and being surprised at the subtle dialog changes there, which I hadn't previously noticed.
( Serious Answer )
Let's argue, okay? First, the game is TAILORED by how you play, you can't can expect impossible things from a '' medium '' company who make ADVENTURES, okay?
Second, choices matter, but in a way who you don't expect. Little things, little changes on the conversation, but this happens, just make two gameplays with differents choices, you will notice. '' Principal '' choices can make difference too ( Sarita case in TWD S2, for example, if you cut her arm... Well, you know how Kenny acts with you, but if you don't, he will just want a time to be alone ), but you every follow the same way, probably with differents endings, like Mass Effect.
Third, it's not a false advertising, the game is TAILORED by how you play, it's not a Mass Effect.
I really don't know who is crazy to say anything like that. The game is dialogue-based, and you make a thread like this? Oh, please.
( Joke Answer )
Where does it say tailored? I've scanned the store page and it doesn't say so. Your whole argument is invalid.
So stop being stupid and report Telltale if you want, rather than creating useless topics. And another, you read all? Because if you're stupid, my God ...
Even Mass Effect 3 pretty much plays out the same way. You know those missions in ME3 where characters, who could have died in ME2, are integral to them? Or they appear in.
Those missions still happen if they died. The difference is mostly dialog, as a different character stands in for them, plus the outcome is negative. If the characters had survived, the outcome would be more positive. So again, still the same broad story arcs, but minor differences. And they surely have more resources at their disposal than Telltale do, not to mention a much longer dev cycle.
Endings also, outside of the epilogue, are largely determined by your final choice (as war assets also count but they have, as far as I remember, lowered the war asset requirements for better endings now)
Little things do always change, but the experience it's ruined for some because of too high expectations.
That's it.
In Wolf? I might have to play again. As far as I remember, outside of the finale, the only real callbacks were with Toad and Colin. And the choice with Woody or the Tweedle at the end of the first episode (plus Lawrence).
I've been meaning to play it again actually, now that all the episodes are released. So, it could just be that I missed them due to the length between episodes or I just didn't really pay as much attention as I should have.
But yeah, agreed. People are having experiences ruined because of expectations that are unrealistic.
what did you expect? they won't design specific paths for some players just because they made a decision (like making sure felix dies)
they don't have the resources
and you choices really didn't matter in TWD S1 its a common misconception I replayed it two times and it was always basically the same outcome
Telltale games were never about making choices that result in BIG consequences its more like your story is "tailored" by the way you play
the choices do influence the relationships they will get mentioned again but the story won't change too much
its not false advertising its just you people have unreasonable expectations especially with a small company like Telltale
learn to read troll its always at the beginning of an episode
also OP seems to have something against Telltale these days and is trying to rally people around him
weren'T you the same guy who was whining about the engine?
its ok if you don't approve of them anymore but stop making ridiculous posts like making a legitimate case against Telltale
either a troll or just crazy
I played WOLF and all episodes of it, i didn't play walking dead as i dont care much for it, but i think i had too big expectations. I am not very skilled at understanding a size of the company based on the game. I thought, since they got publishing rights from such big names as WB, Walking dead AMC, Game of Thrones HBO, that the dev team is more than a 100 people. I guess my expectations were too high.
BTW that Ramsy part i tried over 6 times. The only thing that changes is what he says when he kills you "i dont want a brave lord, wise lord etc"
No, the thing is, when you are buying, how do you know what's written IN THE GAME? You buy based on what's written on the store, which is worded differently than in-game. And in any case, just because the word tailored exists it doesn't negate the obligation for there to be actual choices.
They have 140 people, I think? But that's split between two games, though they do move members back and forth if needed, from what I've read. I don't think it's a big size either, even if everyone was working on the same game?
But my point is that it's quite unrealistic to expect divergent stories from even big companies unfortunately. There will always be story elements that are destined to happen in order to bring story threads back together. If that wasn't the case, it'd be impossible to finish. I mean, I talked about Mass Effect 3 further down in this thread. And I'm quite tempted to link to the 'story map' for some interactive fiction I'm working on. I'm able to include more branches/make them last longer because I'm only working with text, but I still need to bring the paths back together.
There are the occasional few that make choice matter a lot though. But they're . . . rare, so the most people should expect from games really are minor differences based on choices. If people expect major changes, then it leads to disappointment. Thus this.
Edit: Actually, here you go. This should show how story paths have to connect if you want to finish and note that each 'box' represents one paragraph. Only 1,330 words long.
[Alt text]
A link to the actual story, though keep in mind I've not worked on it for a long time and it's not polished: http://writer.inklestudios.com/stories/pd89
Why do these topics keep coming up? I can understand it from someone who has never played one of these games before and they're like, it's not what I expected. That's fine, but people who claim to have played multiple series and games, know what to expect and are still complaining?
It boggles the mind really.
I mean, I can understand people hoping choices matter more in the next game and I'm the same, but really, they should be bought with the expectation that choices won't matter that much. Thus I am quite happy with Telltale's games because I'm fine with the games as they are and don't have unrealistic expectations. If I wasn't fine with choices not leading to divergent stories, I wouldn't buy the games.
But the funny thing is I don't think the original poster has even bought the game. Might have watched a playthrough, but still.
Exactly. People don't seem to realise that the number of paths increases exponentially for every new level of choices (assuming the same number of options each time), at least until some diverge. Telltale do their best to both include choices that actually alter the story and to include choices that give the illusion of altering the story. You can't really blame them for that, and I personally think they do a great job.
Same. I illustrated the problem with a few images as well a post or two up as a reply to something that was marked as spoilers. I honestly don't think some people understand what is involved when they complain about stuff like this.
The thing is the problem has been getting worse, not better, despite Telltale presumably having more money due to the success of TWD. The 'so and so will remember that' messages in TWD Season 1 in some cases actually seemed to be important and effect our relationships with characters, notably Lilly and Kenny. By contrast, in TWD Season 2, you can treat a character like absolute garbage for an entire episode and by the next episode they'll have forgotten all about it.
I'm worried the same will be true here.
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