Paganism in TMI?
i'd like to start this thread with an apology to the Telltale Games crew. it seems i overdid it with some comments about the mi game being in the process of production. sorry if i offended you in any way with my previous posts. im honestly excited that theres going to b a new mi game.
i kno u've been taking a lot of pressure recently from MI fans complaining about the game ur making. must've been a lota stress.
i think i know why the people like Monkey Island. it is for the game's atmosphere. the atmosphere of magic, the atmosphere of humour, the atmosphere of love and romance. i'm sure, we all want to keep that atmosphere, that's why everyone's worried about the game. it just means too much to us.
i'm not too worried about the type of graphics, control or the looks of characters or etc.. i have just one major concern (which i've stated before).
so... this isn't a complaint... nor is it a statement. i'd refer to it as a petition. i've watched an interview with you guys recently, and i believe that your intensions are good. perhaps i used a rather rude way to draw ur attention the first time...
as you know, my concerns are caused by the title of the fifth episode of TMI. of course, i discern nothing about the plot... i am vexed about the matter, though...
i'm asking you to leave this poll open for the sake of all the MI fans out there, who share my concern. if our point of view doesn't make it to the top, do as you please. but if it does, consider this a petition from us to free TMI from becoming just another pagan game.
let it stay religiously neutral as before (of course stuff like silly 'cannibals' and 'voodoo' magic doesn't count).
hoping every1'd share their opinion with us!
i kno u've been taking a lot of pressure recently from MI fans complaining about the game ur making. must've been a lota stress.
i think i know why the people like Monkey Island. it is for the game's atmosphere. the atmosphere of magic, the atmosphere of humour, the atmosphere of love and romance. i'm sure, we all want to keep that atmosphere, that's why everyone's worried about the game. it just means too much to us.
i'm not too worried about the type of graphics, control or the looks of characters or etc.. i have just one major concern (which i've stated before).
so... this isn't a complaint... nor is it a statement. i'd refer to it as a petition. i've watched an interview with you guys recently, and i believe that your intensions are good. perhaps i used a rather rude way to draw ur attention the first time...
as you know, my concerns are caused by the title of the fifth episode of TMI. of course, i discern nothing about the plot... i am vexed about the matter, though...
i'm asking you to leave this poll open for the sake of all the MI fans out there, who share my concern. if our point of view doesn't make it to the top, do as you please. but if it does, consider this a petition from us to free TMI from becoming just another pagan game.
let it stay religiously neutral as before (of course stuff like silly 'cannibals' and 'voodoo' magic doesn't count).
hoping every1'd share their opinion with us!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
What about Lechuck turning into a firey demon and roasting a crew of pirates into bones?
It really depends on how they portray it and for what purpose.
You're being ridiculous. If you don't draw the line at volcano gods and voodoo (both among a number of such concepts depicted in the previous games), where do you? I don't know what faith you subscribe to, but surely you're smart enough to realize that this is fantasy? If talk of gods in a fantasy pirate series, where the supernatural is hardly anything new, is offensive to you, then Monkey Island must be one of many targets you're taking aim at with a petition (like maybe Harry Potter, or the inclusion of fairy dust in Peter Pan?). It's make-believe, a fairly tale, intended purely for entertainment. If you can't leave it at that, then it's your failing and not anyone else's. If you can't watch a movie or play a game without questioning your beliefs, then either you're not old enough to enjoy such entertainment or your beliefs couldn't have been that strong to begin with.
1. My Sarcasm Alarm is broken ... or....
2. The original poster is insane...in a funny way...not in a bite your face off way.
The monkeys AREN'T listening...
And now that I've gotten that out of my system, I feel that this is just getting a little too crazy now.
Actually, I'd love to have that... HUGE joke-potential there
Your use of "just another pagan game" makes me really want to question your tin-foil-hat status, but I'm gonna try and back off...
I say let Monkey Island sail the sea of ideas under the pirate ethos of freedom from boundaries.
But in a game like this, we should expect a lot of mysticism and fantasy, not necessarily based on real-world religions and beliefs. There's probably some practicers of Voodoo who may be offended at how their religion is portrayed... but I'm sure most of them also realise the difference between the real world Voodoo religion and the concept of "Voodoo" that appears in fiction (making zombies, curses etc.)
You do realize paganism in it's most basic sense refers to any polytheistic religion. It has nothing to do with magic or magic practices.
Hinduism, one of the world's biggest religions, is technically "paganism." It has multiple gods. The fact that such a religion exists in the real world must offend you then. God forbid something doesn't conform to your limited world view.
The bottom line is that the Monkey games are steeped in Voodoo tradition. You're statement "of course stuff like silly 'cannibals' and 'voodoo' magic doesn't count" is both glib and offensive. Voodoo, as it were, is a legitimate religion (not something silly) and an offshoot of West African Vodou. Vodou/Voodoo are polytheistic faiths in the real world (i.e. they have more than one god).
The game interprets Voodoo in the common folk magic trope. No doubt the method of whoever attains the title 'Pirate God' is through Voodoo. Since Voodoo is a polytheistic faith I don't see what is wrong about the title.
Telling them to rename it 'Pirate Demon' is outrageously offensive as then you're classifying anything that's interpreted as a god in Voodooism as a demon.
Oh, and hate to break it to you... I'm going to assume you subscribe to one of the Judeo-Christian based faiths as typically complaints like yours come from that camp. The central God of Christianity/Judaism/Islam; YHWH, comes from a polytheistic faith. You see, around 1500 BC there was a city called Ugarit that had a pantheon of gods with the head god "El" and his court the "Elohim". Among this court was a relatively minor deity YHWH; a storm god. Eventually, the cult of YHWH grew and after Ugarit was destroyed in the "Bronze Age Collapse" many survivors joined this cult and began to worship YHWH as the high god. These people eventually began to be identified as the Jewish tribes, and switched from a polytheistic faith of Ugarit to a monotheistic faith worshiping solely YHWH. Judaism then gave rise to Christianity and Islam. So there you have it; YHWH (and by extension his son Jesus) comes from a minor pagan polytheistic cult circa 1500 BC. Don't believe me? Go open up an encyclopedia or take some classes in comparative religions and the ancient Middle East.
I know, but I just find this topic/post so inane and ridiculous.
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=130072&postcount=22
Heck, maybe that's all that's meant by the title "Rise of the Pirate God" and god is capitalized merely because that follows the grammatical rules for capitalization in titles.
Besides the English word "God" derives from the Proto-Germanic word "gudan" which roughly translates to summon/call/invoke which isn't very Christian anyway.
I suggest the title of the fifth chapter be changed to "Rise of the Pirate Yahweh" just so everyone's clear on the issue.
Es gibt nur einen Gott: BELAFARINROD
And I want paganism!
Sheesh, I am christian, but lets think about those things seriously in a clean and enlightened manner (enlighened in the sense of applying a brain here)
Monkey island plays in the carribeans in the 18th century, a time and place where we had following things:
a) Voodoo as paganic religion imported from the african slaves already taking christian symbols to hide itself underground
b) A lot of misconceptions about the world which manifest itself in somehwat twisted religious views going straight into wichcraft believes and other things
c) People being killed left and right due to ilnesses violence or war or straight by a lot of accidents (people died like fleas was were born like fleas), with sexual diseases widespread more than anything else
d) Hygienic circumstances which are close to what we would call bio hazard, but that not on garbage dumps but in average life
e) People washing themselves maybe once per year, because everything else was seen as unhealthy
So now we have a game making a humourous mockery about those things (a and b, and c to a small degree), I am all for it :-)
This is a game and a parody so live with it I must say, and enjoy it!
Guess if you live in Europe you see religious things way more relaxed than in the US, the funny thing is over hear the most religiously zealous people are the ones being declared atheists, while the rest of the bunch is rather relaxed!
Actually I think that there were other Monotheistic religions before the cult of YHWH, Echnaton in Egypt introduced a montheistic religion before that arair! Echnaton lived 1300 BC not sure if the judaic religiouns already were monotheistic. Also dont forget about Zarathustra in Persia around 1800 BC, who introduced the concepts of one god and heaven and hell!
The good question is which one was first, I guess we never will know!
(The same goes for things like did Abraham ever exist, which is very likely. I personally think that Abraham existed and had a monotheistic religion and later on after they have moved to palestine over the centuries it probably merged into the cult of JHWH, or they used JHWH as anchor point to move the people to the new monotheistic religion) There often are such anchor points, for instance in catholic and orthodox christianity, the holy people replaced the pagan gods for worshipping. It was easier than to introduce one single god without anyone else around him, to be grasped for people coming from a multi deitic religion!
comments and other stuff like that... i love the comments of sam
in your seasons ... thats really make a lot of fun ;-)
hope to see many of that in tales of mi *ggg
WTF???
I'm a practicing Catholic and I can honestly say that the presence of voodoo in any previous MI game has never once crossed my my mind as being an issue. It's a game, set in the carribean in the distant past. And if voodoo's not a problem for anyone why on earth would paganism be a problem???????
Was Nur-Ab-Sal offensive to anyone's religion in Fate of Atlantis?
Honestly, get a grip.
y shouldnt i be?
im fine))) just expressing my opinion bout continuation of my favourite game series.
ur wrong! as a matter of fact there's been a number of times when i discussed religious matters with different people, who have different beliefs. moreover, i feel that every1 has the right to choose their faith, and, i respect that right. all i want, is the game to be free from stuff, that perhaps (maybe i even got the wrong picture bout the title as some ppl say) is in this new part. thats all.
thats not a problem with me. i never said im against it. its probaply what makes a good game stand out.
i never called it silly... the "silly" in what i've written refers to 'cannibals' only. u dont actually happen 2 b a cannibal, do u?)))
well, if thats the case...
i dont recall using the word 'offensive', so whyd u keep saying i find something offensive, when i didnt say so. all i said was, that i want it to b religiously NEUTRAL (and by that i didnt mean for it to exclude any mentioning of religion). thats all.
u dont have 2b so aggressive with me. i can somewhat comprehend what ur saying. by "sharing opinion" i really meant what i said, not "start an endless fight".
there's nothing wrong with som1 sharing his opinion about his favourite game series' future. or, maybe, you think there is?
just take it easy a bit. and if the problem is as ridiculous as u say, then why are you so uptight about it?
So I guess the question is rather wrong, since it assumes the previous games were without paganism, even though they were. Probably all of them.
I looked it up and in Monkey 2 its even a real voodoo doll recipe!
np: The Postal Service - Brand New Colony (Give Up)
Meh, paganism/voodooism, its all part of the popular stereotype of the golden age of piracy, and is perfectly acceptable in a humorous pirate game. I never saw any complaints about Tia Dalma and Calypso in Pirates of the Caribbean.
I complained bitterly to everyone I knew about that, just because the third pirates film was so dreadfully disappointing.
I Am! And I am highly offended by your post
Oh, I admit it was a crappy plot point, but what I mean is I never saw anyone complaining about the presence of pirate gods in a similar fashion to the complaint about pirate gods here.