Yet another vote for point+click. Forcing PC users to use a Wii-focused interface (even the inventory system is kludgy thanks to Wii) is not nice, and has been irritating me throughout the game.
It took me a little bit to adjust to the click-and-drag controls, but that's only because point-and-click is hardwired into my brain. I quite like the controls now.
Finally, it's nothing to do with the Wii. Wallace and Gromit used a very similar mouse/keyboard approach, and that is not a Wii game. This is something they've been working on for a while.
What he said. W&G had only keyboard controls for movement. TOMI was upgraded to allow users to still use the mouse to move.
A 3D enviroment makes it harder to use point & click. Direct control of the player is much easier from a programming POV then P&C. When there is only sky in the background, how is P&C supposed to know where to move?
Would I prefer P&C? Of course. Is the drag and click better then having no mouse movement controls, like in W&G. Definitely. Does TTG need to improve their gamepad support? Yes, W&G was much better for gamepad support. Can you play both games with a keyboard & mouse like most 1st person games? Yes, but I can't stand playing the game that way. Am I done asking myself questions and answering them? I hope so.
This is a post from the "Worse than Grim Fandango" thread, which I think makes some excellent points.
"I'm really enjoying this game, and I'm dealing with the controls just fine, but I'm going to say my piece and leave it at that.
You've stated your reasons for why these decisions were made, but what's bugging me is that you seem to be insinuating that it was the right decision and there's no possible way that all of these frustrated fans have a point.
The fact of the matter is... if people are playing the game and finding it frustrating... then it IS frustrating.
Form over function.
Just because your art director, creative director or whoever thinks something is cool, that doesn't mean it does justice to the game. The camera angles look great, there's no denying that, however they've come at the cost of playability which is really what the focus should be on at all times.
These games are about sitting back, contemplating what you're seeing, and thinking about the puzzles. Navigating around obstacles has nothing to do with the gameplay here, and adding this type of mechanic adds nothing to the game other than distracting the player from the core gameplay.
"Direct control has proven a satisfactory control scheme for thousands of games and millions of gamers, so that's what we went with."
How many point and click adventures has this control scheme worked for? Those thousands of games are platformer, fps, and other game types where movement of character is a basic part of the gameplay. Watching Guybrush walk from one place to another just serves to make him seem alive and in the world. There are no traps to avoid or enemies to kill. I don't need to do anything other than tell him where to go with a simple click. It's a simple task that I don't need or want to think about. I have puzzles and hilarious dialog to get to! (How many people sat and watched Guybrush walk slowly around the island maps of the old games without double-clicking to make him go faster?)
I think you guys did a great job with the game, but denying that these issues exist just means that they'll never be addressed. We can't improve ourselves without admitting that there are things to improve, and I hope we can all (fans and devs alike) agree that nothing is ever perfect. "
I don't think that WSAD or mouse dragging add anything to the gameplay of TOMI, I just played Sam & Max Season 2 some weeks ago and the Point&Click interface is absolutely fine there, even in 3D.
Another user interface issue is the way of how to combine two objects from the inventory. Dropping them into the boxes and pressing the corresponding button is way too complex.
And, as has been pointed out countless times, the direct controls allow for so much more in terms of presentation. In some ways I wish Telltale would patch the game to include point and click movement so that you could all see for yourselves why it just wouldn't work very well
Finally, it's nothing to do with the Wii. Wallace and Gromit used a very similar mouse/keyboard approach, and that is not a Wii game. This is something they've been working on for a while.
I know the point and click interface woudn't work with the game in it's current shape. But I think it was not the right descision to go with looks (better camera angeles) over playability, where point and click is just better fitting for this type of game (adventure with static camera)
And about Wallace and Gromit, that game was also for the Xbox, so everyting said about Wii here count as Xbox for W&G.
I know the point and click interface woudn't work with the game in it's current shape. But I think it was not the right descision to go with looks (better camera angeles) over playability, where point and click is just better fitting for this type of game (adventure with static camera)
Well, that's where we also disagree. I've been playing adventure games since 1991 (my first was The Secret of Monkey Island) and I would argue that point and click controls were never exactly ideal to begin with...
Don't get me wrong, they have their strengths - controlling everything with the mouse could be seen as good, and it's nice to just click somewhere and have the game work out all the pathfinding for you, but it sort of falls apart once you get large scrolling scenes like the Scumm Bar exterior in MI1 or the coffin ride in MI2 across the swamp... there's nothing great about having to constantly click the edge of the screen to keep Guybrush moving in the same direction.
It gets even less ideal in the Sam and Max episodes where double clicking activates run, because if I need to take him along the street he does so in a stop-start fashion which is silly and really shows the limitations of point-and-click movement for what they are. Telltale are right to start thinking about ways to change this, and while there is more improvement to be done, I think they are taking steps in the right direction.
I suppose my point is - point and click ISN'T a perfect control scheme and never was. These new schemes also have imperfections, but also bring distinct advantages.
I'm not saying point and click is perfect, you are right about the constant clicking with scrolling backgrounds.
But I do think it would fit the game better then the current interface becouse of the reasons Austin P posted above.
Direct control is better suited for a game where you also controll the camera. An adventure game example is Dreamfall, where the interface works quite good (especially with a controller). It feels much more natural in such a situation to use direct control.
It gets even less ideal in the Sam and Max episodes where double clicking activates run, because if I need to take him along the street he does so in a stop-start fashion which is silly and really shows the limitations of point-and-click movement for what they are.
While I like the new control scheme - you could just hold down the mouse button in Sam & Max after double clicking and Sam would merrily continue running in the direction the mouse cursor was as long as you kept it to the edge of the screen to get it to scroll.
np: Tosca - Chocolate Elvis (Baby Mammoth Version 1+2) (The Chocolate Elvis Dubs)
The fact of the matter is... if people are playing the game and finding it frustrating... then it IS frustrating.
Just because you get to hear a heck of a lot peoply crying their hearts out over this on some forums doesn't mean the majority of people is doing the same - if this is no deal to you you're not going to open threads about this. Naturally. I have my qualms with this too: I'd never play this with these mouse controls, personally. Plus I think they should bring back an option to cycle through "hotspots" W&G-style again so that the game can be played entirelly by gamepad again without mapping the mouse cursor to an anlog stick. You know, the kind of input device that REALLY lets you sit back and sip on that drink waiting on your armchair all along.
These games are about sitting back, contemplating what you're seeing, and thinking about the puzzles. Navigating around obstacles has nothing to do with the gameplay here, and adding this type of mechanic adds nothing to the game other than distracting the player from the core gameplay.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold back just a minute. Since when was Monkey Island ever merely made of a bunch of puzzles to navigate through at all? Exploration has been an adventure game stapledom ever since Colossal Cave. Fair enough, there might be games a plenty that merely are about clicking from one puzzly bit to the next, but Monkey Island has been about a fair deal of exploration all along. Direct control isn't merely a different way of controlling things, it also adds a totally different look&feel to a game. There's something to be said about the physical sensation of exploring an environment only direct control allows for -- and this has naught to do with whatever genre you just made up.
It's a case by case thing, pretty simple. In terms of exploring an environment, Monkey Island has got more to do with a game like GTA than say... Safecracker. Or Samorost. Or anything. The thrill of just taking a walk over at San Andreas sunset strip.. or going out for a walk in the jungle over at Flotsam.
To demand a game to fit square and center into what is considered to be the "perceived norm" is just silly. Every piece of design, be it controls, visuals or whatever should spring from an initial idea where to go with this, rather than deciding upfront: "this must be this and this.", "this must be point&click", "this must be 320x200 pixels", "this must be text input", "this must be direct control", "this must be 2d/3d/4d", etc. In this case, it seems that Telltale thought a combination of WASD+mouse controls was a good fit with what they're trying to do with their game. And why not? There's hardly any control scheme out there that's being used more often. For PC games anyway. Naturally no design decision you make is going to please everyone.
And then there's this whole cinematic camera issue Telltale are going for.
In other words: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
edit: Sorry if bits of this came off a bit grumpy, but I tend to get grumpy whenever somebody makes up arguments based on claims that Adventure Games have been all about this and this and that. Especially when I'm as hungry as I am now. It's ok to like and prefer point&click controls, as it is to absolutely detest direct controls. But it's silly to dismiss anything based on claims like that.
While I like the new control scheme - you could just hold down the mouse button in Sam & Max after double clicking and Sam would merrily continue running in the direction the mouse cursor was as long as you kept it to the edge of the screen to get it to scroll.
np: Tosca - Chocolate Elvis (Baby Mammoth Version 1+2) (The Chocolate Elvis Dubs)
That's interesting - but it's still a rather inelegant solution to the inherent problem. In my mind it's no better than keyboard/direct control as a solution to the moving around large environments - and it's probably worse, because it makes a simple scheme slightly more complicated.
I'm waiting for the release of ToMI in WiiWare, but I think it could be one of the best controls ever if you move Guybrush with the nunchuk pad and use the wiimote to point and clik on the objects.
I just stumbled upon some reviews of the game. While every single one was reviewing
the game a 7/10 or better, they all agreed with us, that the controls are (to say the
least) "interesting" compared to Sam 'n Max or the old LucasArts classics.
Well, we'll see if our complains will be heard.
Just because you get to hear a heck of a lot peoply crying their hearts out over this on some forums doesn't mean the majority of people is doing the same - if this is no deal to you you're not going to open threads about this.
No, but if they bother to post on the message board at all, they would probably feel compelled to throw in their opinion on topics like these, and since most of the people here are for Point n Click, that's probably a good indication that most of the people who play Telltale games prefer the point n click.
No, but if they bother to post on the message board at all, they would probably feel compelled to throw in their opinion on topics like these, and since most of the people here are for Point n Click, that's probably a good indication that most of the people who play Telltale games prefer the point n click.
Hey. Just popping in because this thread has gone on seven pages with me deliberately avoiding it because I wanted to avoid this discussion for a millionth time over.
Anyway, I decided to post because your insinuation that I would be compelled to proclaim the virtues of Telltale's control scheme seems a bit silly to me. The control scheme has its pros and cons, and I think it's both a valid decision and a fine control choice overall now that I've played through a few games centered around direct control and quickly adapted to the new scheme.
I like it just fine. Could I live with point and click as well? Sure, but this certainly has a few cinematic bells and whistles.
"Direct control has proven a satisfactory control scheme for thousands of games and millions of gamers, so that's what we went with."
Well, adventure games proved UNsatisfactory for the last 10 years until Telltale showed up!
I know of at least one game that features multicamera and point and klik: Murder in the Abbey. That was a good interface. When I walk, the conscious part of my brain knows where to go, and the unconcious part does the rest. That's what an adventure game should do. If you hold down the mouse and start walking or running, you have to care about the camera movement in order to correct Guybrush' direction. I bet a lot of you have crashed against the wall left to the door at the bar, because that's where the camera movement leads you. And this happens with keyboard as well. Cinematic camera looks great, but it is not predictable and is not inmersive by it's nature. I am not saying it doesn't work. I like it. But for me P&K it would be better, as it's got some flaws as the current interface.
I simply can't believe that after using pathfinding technology and a 2d mouse to 3d enviroment interface, it just can't be done, at least as an option in the menu. Even if it's turned off by default, it should be implemented.
Heh. I think the mouse dragging controls being bad was kind of the point: to prove it doesn't work. They only added it because we asked for it. Now we're blaming them for it? Lol that's too much!
The people that asked specifically for this kind of control aren't complaining. Others are complaining.
And it works. Very well, in my opinion. Even a few reviews I've read liked the mouse controls in the game.
The people that asked specifically for this kind of control aren't complaining. Others are complaining.
And it works. Very well, in my opinion. Even a few reviews I've read liked the mouse controls in the game.
YEP!, I agree. The drag and move method works at least as good as joystick control. And you still have the benefit of easily selecting on screen items.
I would rather play a good game with the new controls, instead of TTG waisting their time designing 2D overlays for P&C control in a 3D environment. When the 2D map wont work well if the game changes the viewing angle.
I didn't like the drag-and-move at all. The WASD/arrow controls are tolerable, but I really miss click-to-move. They already support clicking on an object and moving to it, surely it's not hard to support clicking on a bit of ground and moving there (like in the Sam & Max games).
I know, I know, their "cinematic camera angles don't permit that". I call bull on that one. I can't think of a single case where the ground was completely invisible, which is about the only case that wouldn't work with click-to-move. And even then it probably wouldn't be hard to come up with a variant of click-to-move that works well.
You know, once you try and use drag2move (I love saying that) for a few minutes, it's actually pretty comfortable. Initially I went "What the hell?" But a few minutes later, I was drag2moving (yay) like a pro.
Twenty years from now you'll find bigg-ish threads on every adventure gaming board for every adventure game that dares to differ from the perceived drag2move™ norm. Users like Wall&Grom79 are like: "Hey, why did you implement those messed up point'n'click controls from like fourty years ago?" To which XDeSingeX replies: "Why do you guys like to fix what ain't broke?" To which ILoveJakeRodkin says: "Why try reinventing the wheel if everything is perfectly fine as is?"
Similar arguments abound. No developer ever dares to stray away from drag2move control scheme ever again. And Telltale have developed into a multi-billion dollar behemoth getting fatter and fatter by every bits of royalty they receive from yet another developer adopting to the mighty drag2move™. Valve just went broke since they couldn't afford to pay the price. The Deals Gap Panthers have won the World Series. And Dave Grossman has recently moved into the White House, cats and dogs et all. Just you see.
Twenty years from now you'll find bigg-ish threads on every adventure gaming board for every adventure game that dares to differ from the perceived drag2move™ norm. Users like Wall&Grom79 are like: "Hey, why did you implement those messed up point'n'click controls from like fourty years ago?" To which XDeSingeX replies: "Why do you guys like to fix what ain't broke?" To which ILoveJakeRodkin says: "Why try reinventing the wheel if everything is perfectly fine as is?"
I'm not sure I buy this line of argument as what it's basically saying is - no control scheme is better than other control schemes.
Anyway, I'm very happy with the new drag to move controls, I think they work well.
It's possible if we change cinematography back to Sam & Max style, yes.
I think there was nothing wrong with Sam&Max scenes at all. Those games are fun. They more lack on the Soda Poppers and story/riddle complexity front. I thought i would never have to mention them again, buahhh. :O)
Beside of this you could mix the scenes in an intelligent way so that you end up having it look more dramatic whilst still beeing steerable. You know there is a middleway betweeen Sam&Max and TOMI and on top of this you would be free to do whatever you want in cut scenes. The main problem are the changing close ups, it would force you providing a total from time to time for easier navigation, users could still interrupt when entering a closeup scene and exit through clicking on the border, anyway....
I think with adding a reasonable gamepad steering and improving the mouse steering, like it has been mentioned a feew times already (adjustable sensitivity, Grossman mode, performing gestures on the character for automated walk mode), things should improve to a comfortable degree. It's just so damn pleasing using point&click in other games that i simply miss it here and i somehow don't get the fun you people seem to expect me having out of the cinematic aspect because the core mechanics of a good adventure are defined different to me.
This is almost like a shader eye candy discussion. Of course i don't mind if it's in there but it's not the reason why i'm buying/playing the game.
I think the drag to move prob took me 15-20 minutes to get a really good handle on it and then I was away.. your not sliding your mouse all over the place..just in the direction you want to go. I think if people take the time to get used to it, they'd get over it being a problem pretty fast.
I don't have any problems with the new drag2move control. Just prior to the release of ToMI I replayed EMI and thus I feared the controls are going to be as bad as EMI's.
It just took a few minutes took a few minutes to get used to drag2move and boy was it a relief! The controls are good, I really like them. If Telltale finds ways to improve them in any kind - great. If not, it'll be fine too.
I just played the demo of an adventure game called "Ceville" (released by a German company earlier this year, but also available in English), which got quite good reviews: Great 3D "cinematic-style" look, but easy point & click controls. - And you can even combine items by just placing one over the other in your inventory. .
So it is possible to implement such a simple control scheme and have a 3D-type adventure game at the same time. (However "Ceville" is only available for PC... - notice something?)
Oh and there was a reference to Monkey Island in the beginning already: You could choose the phrase "You fight like a cow." in one of the first conversations.
So it is possible to implement such a simple control scheme and have a 3D-type adventure game at the same time.
Nobody is arguing that it isn't possible to do that, TTG made Sam and Max didn't they? The argument is that you can do much more with camera angles when the game uses direct control. This is a fact. The only debate is whether that flexibility is worth it. You can read my opinion piece on mixnmojo to see which side of that debate I come down on.
Also, direct control has nothing to do with it also coming out on consoles, TTG have been aiming to move away from P&C movement from the beginning.
The "Drag2Move" was actually better than I expected. It felt funky at first, but pretty natural after a few minutes. I still preferred the WASD, and agree that some full gamepad support would be sweet, but Drag2Move is very handy when I'm swigging a beer or smoking a cig while playing (which is more often than I care to admit). Honestly, my biggest gripe with Drag2Move is that ugly ring and arrow around Guybrush. Would love to see an option to turn it off in future episodes!
I think some people freak out over the control change because it takes away the "Point & Click" from "Point & Click Adventure Games". However, I've never considered point & click controls to be a staple of the adventure genre. Ever. After all, the first few adventures were entirely keyboard driven. When P&C finally came into the mix thousands protested saying that it was "dumbing the games down" and making them "less intelligent" and/or "compromising". I don't think either arguments are correct since both parties are missing entirely what adventure games are all about: playing an interactive story. As long as the controls work and aren't too complex, I don't care what kind of controls it has. I'll play it.
Comments
What he said. W&G had only keyboard controls for movement. TOMI was upgraded to allow users to still use the mouse to move.
A 3D enviroment makes it harder to use point & click. Direct control of the player is much easier from a programming POV then P&C. When there is only sky in the background, how is P&C supposed to know where to move?
Would I prefer P&C? Of course. Is the drag and click better then having no mouse movement controls, like in W&G. Definitely. Does TTG need to improve their gamepad support? Yes, W&G was much better for gamepad support. Can you play both games with a keyboard & mouse like most 1st person games? Yes, but I can't stand playing the game that way. Am I done asking myself questions and answering them? I hope so.
Personally, I don't think Monkey Island is the franchise to be experimenting with new control schemes. It's too essential that this game succeeds IMO.
Otherwise a fabulous game!
"I'm really enjoying this game, and I'm dealing with the controls just fine, but I'm going to say my piece and leave it at that.
You've stated your reasons for why these decisions were made, but what's bugging me is that you seem to be insinuating that it was the right decision and there's no possible way that all of these frustrated fans have a point.
The fact of the matter is... if people are playing the game and finding it frustrating... then it IS frustrating.
Form over function.
Just because your art director, creative director or whoever thinks something is cool, that doesn't mean it does justice to the game. The camera angles look great, there's no denying that, however they've come at the cost of playability which is really what the focus should be on at all times.
These games are about sitting back, contemplating what you're seeing, and thinking about the puzzles. Navigating around obstacles has nothing to do with the gameplay here, and adding this type of mechanic adds nothing to the game other than distracting the player from the core gameplay.
"Direct control has proven a satisfactory control scheme for thousands of games and millions of gamers, so that's what we went with."
How many point and click adventures has this control scheme worked for? Those thousands of games are platformer, fps, and other game types where movement of character is a basic part of the gameplay. Watching Guybrush walk from one place to another just serves to make him seem alive and in the world. There are no traps to avoid or enemies to kill. I don't need to do anything other than tell him where to go with a simple click. It's a simple task that I don't need or want to think about. I have puzzles and hilarious dialog to get to! (How many people sat and watched Guybrush walk slowly around the island maps of the old games without double-clicking to make him go faster?)
I think you guys did a great job with the game, but denying that these issues exist just means that they'll never be addressed. We can't improve ourselves without admitting that there are things to improve, and I hope we can all (fans and devs alike) agree that nothing is ever perfect. "
I don't think that WSAD or mouse dragging add anything to the gameplay of TOMI, I just played Sam & Max Season 2 some weeks ago and the Point&Click interface is absolutely fine there, even in 3D.
Another user interface issue is the way of how to combine two objects from the inventory. Dropping them into the boxes and pressing the corresponding button is way too complex.
ookayed.
I know the point and click interface woudn't work with the game in it's current shape. But I think it was not the right descision to go with looks (better camera angeles) over playability, where point and click is just better fitting for this type of game (adventure with static camera)
And about Wallace and Gromit, that game was also for the Xbox, so everyting said about Wii here count as Xbox for W&G.
Perfect post. That is exacly what we (at least I) mean!
Well, that's where we also disagree. I've been playing adventure games since 1991 (my first was The Secret of Monkey Island) and I would argue that point and click controls were never exactly ideal to begin with...
Don't get me wrong, they have their strengths - controlling everything with the mouse could be seen as good, and it's nice to just click somewhere and have the game work out all the pathfinding for you, but it sort of falls apart once you get large scrolling scenes like the Scumm Bar exterior in MI1 or the coffin ride in MI2 across the swamp... there's nothing great about having to constantly click the edge of the screen to keep Guybrush moving in the same direction.
It gets even less ideal in the Sam and Max episodes where double clicking activates run, because if I need to take him along the street he does so in a stop-start fashion which is silly and really shows the limitations of point-and-click movement for what they are. Telltale are right to start thinking about ways to change this, and while there is more improvement to be done, I think they are taking steps in the right direction.
I suppose my point is - point and click ISN'T a perfect control scheme and never was. These new schemes also have imperfections, but also bring distinct advantages.
But I do think it would fit the game better then the current interface becouse of the reasons Austin P posted above.
Direct control is better suited for a game where you also controll the camera. An adventure game example is Dreamfall, where the interface works quite good (especially with a controller). It feels much more natural in such a situation to use direct control.
np: Tosca - Chocolate Elvis (Baby Mammoth Version 1+2) (The Chocolate Elvis Dubs)
Just because you get to hear a heck of a lot peoply crying their hearts out over this on some forums doesn't mean the majority of people is doing the same - if this is no deal to you you're not going to open threads about this. Naturally. I have my qualms with this too: I'd never play this with these mouse controls, personally. Plus I think they should bring back an option to cycle through "hotspots" W&G-style again so that the game can be played entirelly by gamepad again without mapping the mouse cursor to an anlog stick. You know, the kind of input device that REALLY lets you sit back and sip on that drink waiting on your armchair all along.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold back just a minute. Since when was Monkey Island ever merely made of a bunch of puzzles to navigate through at all? Exploration has been an adventure game stapledom ever since Colossal Cave. Fair enough, there might be games a plenty that merely are about clicking from one puzzly bit to the next, but Monkey Island has been about a fair deal of exploration all along. Direct control isn't merely a different way of controlling things, it also adds a totally different look&feel to a game. There's something to be said about the physical sensation of exploring an environment only direct control allows for -- and this has naught to do with whatever genre you just made up.
It's a case by case thing, pretty simple. In terms of exploring an environment, Monkey Island has got more to do with a game like GTA than say... Safecracker. Or Samorost. Or anything. The thrill of just taking a walk over at San Andreas sunset strip.. or going out for a walk in the jungle over at Flotsam.
To demand a game to fit square and center into what is considered to be the "perceived norm" is just silly. Every piece of design, be it controls, visuals or whatever should spring from an initial idea where to go with this, rather than deciding upfront: "this must be this and this.", "this must be point&click", "this must be 320x200 pixels", "this must be text input", "this must be direct control", "this must be 2d/3d/4d", etc. In this case, it seems that Telltale thought a combination of WASD+mouse controls was a good fit with what they're trying to do with their game. And why not? There's hardly any control scheme out there that's being used more often. For PC games anyway. Naturally no design decision you make is going to please everyone.
And then there's this whole cinematic camera issue Telltale are going for.
In other words: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
edit: Sorry if bits of this came off a bit grumpy, but I tend to get grumpy whenever somebody makes up arguments based on claims that Adventure Games have been all about this and this and that. Especially when I'm as hungry as I am now.
That's interesting - but it's still a rather inelegant solution to the inherent problem. In my mind it's no better than keyboard/direct control as a solution to the moving around large environments - and it's probably worse, because it makes a simple scheme slightly more complicated.
I just stumbled upon some reviews of the game. While every single one was reviewing
the game a 7/10 or better, they all agreed with us, that the controls are (to say the
least) "interesting" compared to Sam 'n Max or the old LucasArts classics.
Well, we'll see if our complains will be heard.
http://www.game-over.com/reviews/pc/Tales_Of_Monkey_Island_Chapter_One:_Launch_of_the_Screaming_Narwhal.html
http://www.ztgamedomain.com/7740/Tales-of-Monkey-Island-Launch-of-the-Screaming-Narwhal.html
http://www.thunderboltgames.com/reviews/article/tales-of-monkey-island-launch-of-the-screaming-narwhal-review-for-pc.html
http://www.gamersdailynews.com/article-2042-Tales-of-Monkey-Island-Episode-1-Launch-of-the-Screaming-Narwhal.html
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/tales-of-monkey-island-chapter-1-launch-of-the-screaming-narwhal-review
P.s.: This game is without a doubt great, but somehow I was expecting Point 'n Click.
Greetings
ekid
No, but if they bother to post on the message board at all, they would probably feel compelled to throw in their opinion on topics like these, and since most of the people here are for Point n Click, that's probably a good indication that most of the people who play Telltale games prefer the point n click.
Anyway, I decided to post because your insinuation that I would be compelled to proclaim the virtues of Telltale's control scheme seems a bit silly to me. The control scheme has its pros and cons, and I think it's both a valid decision and a fine control choice overall now that I've played through a few games centered around direct control and quickly adapted to the new scheme.
I like it just fine. Could I live with point and click as well? Sure, but this certainly has a few cinematic bells and whistles.
Play Broken Sword 4... just sayin'
Well, adventure games proved UNsatisfactory for the last 10 years until Telltale showed up!
I know of at least one game that features multicamera and point and klik: Murder in the Abbey. That was a good interface. When I walk, the conscious part of my brain knows where to go, and the unconcious part does the rest. That's what an adventure game should do. If you hold down the mouse and start walking or running, you have to care about the camera movement in order to correct Guybrush' direction. I bet a lot of you have crashed against the wall left to the door at the bar, because that's where the camera movement leads you. And this happens with keyboard as well. Cinematic camera looks great, but it is not predictable and is not inmersive by it's nature. I am not saying it doesn't work. I like it. But for me P&K it would be better, as it's got some flaws as the current interface.
I simply can't believe that after using pathfinding technology and a 2d mouse to 3d enviroment interface, it just can't be done, at least as an option in the menu. Even if it's turned off by default, it should be implemented.
And it works. Very well, in my opinion. Even a few reviews I've read liked the mouse controls in the game.
YEP!, I agree. The drag and move method works at least as good as joystick control. And you still have the benefit of easily selecting on screen items.
I would rather play a good game with the new controls, instead of TTG waisting their time designing 2D overlays for P&C control in a 3D environment. When the 2D map wont work well if the game changes the viewing angle.
I know, I know, their "cinematic camera angles don't permit that". I call bull on that one. I can't think of a single case where the ground was completely invisible, which is about the only case that wouldn't work with click-to-move. And even then it probably wouldn't be hard to come up with a variant of click-to-move that works well.
Similar arguments abound. No developer ever dares to stray away from drag2move control scheme ever again. And Telltale have developed into a multi-billion dollar behemoth getting fatter and fatter by every bits of royalty they receive from yet another developer adopting to the mighty drag2move™. Valve just went broke since they couldn't afford to pay the price. The Deals Gap Panthers have won the World Series. And Dave Grossman has recently moved into the White House, cats and dogs et all. Just you see.
In-Depth Argument For Control System
Anyway, I'm very happy with the new drag to move controls, I think they work well.
Three things I am allergic to: cats, dogs, and the White House.
Beside of this you could mix the scenes in an intelligent way so that you end up having it look more dramatic whilst still beeing steerable. You know there is a middleway betweeen Sam&Max and TOMI and on top of this you would be free to do whatever you want in cut scenes. The main problem are the changing close ups, it would force you providing a total from time to time for easier navigation, users could still interrupt when entering a closeup scene and exit through clicking on the border, anyway....
I think with adding a reasonable gamepad steering and improving the mouse steering, like it has been mentioned a feew times already (adjustable sensitivity, Grossman mode, performing gestures on the character for automated walk mode), things should improve to a comfortable degree. It's just so damn pleasing using point&click in other games that i simply miss it here and i somehow don't get the fun you people seem to expect me having out of the cinematic aspect because the core mechanics of a good adventure are defined different to me.
This is almost like a shader eye candy discussion. Of course i don't mind if it's in there but it's not the reason why i'm buying/playing the game.
It just took a few minutes took a few minutes to get used to drag2move and boy was it a relief! The controls are good, I really like them. If Telltale finds ways to improve them in any kind - great. If not, it'll be fine too.
just kidding
So it is possible to implement such a simple control scheme and have a 3D-type adventure game at the same time. (However "Ceville" is only available for PC... - notice something?)
Oh and there was a reference to Monkey Island in the beginning already: You could choose the phrase "You fight like a cow." in one of the first conversations.
Nobody is arguing that it isn't possible to do that, TTG made Sam and Max didn't they? The argument is that you can do much more with camera angles when the game uses direct control. This is a fact. The only debate is whether that flexibility is worth it. You can read my opinion piece on mixnmojo to see which side of that debate I come down on.
Also, direct control has nothing to do with it also coming out on consoles, TTG have been aiming to move away from P&C movement from the beginning.