Why I know Royland is sadly the guy, even if sentinel.
I hate it. I love the guy. But I know this guy is the traitor.
In episode 3 when Gryff is pushing Rodrik to the ground over and over, Royland ask if he can just kill them.
If you say yes, rather than using the blade, he only hit one soldier with the grip of the sword(when the blade was turned at him), then punched another soldier before being restrained. Gryff punished anyone that stood up to him, anyone. But when Royland had 3 swords at his neck, Gryff tells his man to let him watch and Gryff never brings it up again.
But the Maester is punished and beaten up for letting a bite fester?
Now its either 2 things.
Royland is the traitor, possibly classified to Gryff and the other guy who seems to be top dog of the garrison
or
Inconsistent story by Telltales..
Which is more likely?
Comments
Duncan is the traitor. He sent Gared to the wall without consulting his lord. He treats whitehill soldiers like guests. He was missing right in the beginning of episode 3 when Gryff has come to Ironrath. He was dealing with whitehill (Gwyn) behind our back before. Plus he always offer the worst advice such as peace and diplomacy when whitehills are decided to destroy us.
Duncan also confessed that he would stab Whitehill in the neck, and kill everyone of them, because he wants it diplomatic way doesn't mean he is a traitor. He is diplomatic to cause choices between him and Royland.
Royland he is a loyal dog, he sticks by you and wants you to be great, what type of traitor will want to improve his enemy lord? Royland always says he wants to kill the Whitehills, he wants the Whitehills to be driven off.
I also don't think Telltale have an inconsistent stories, as they are really good at story developing. So that option is out of question
Duncan is the guy Telltale wants us to believe. Everyone points him trustworthy thought i doubt it.
Royland makes zero sense as the traitor, Duncan and Elissa make little sense but still perhaps a slight one based on characterization.
Royland also throws an axe directly at Ludd's head if you tell him to.
I'm starting to believe that it might be determined by whoever you left at Ironrath when you went to Highpoint. If you left Royland, then it was him and he opened the gates to Snow, and likewise with Duncan.
I feel like this is simply to give choice to the player while also keeping the story consistent regardless of what choice you made. If you gave him the order to kill Whitehill soldiers and he did then he would be killed on the spot, whereas people that told him to stand down would not have Royland killed. It's possible I suppose. But it goes against Roylands entire character so much that I can't buy it.
Neither Royland or Duncan are the traitors. They axe Ludd Whitehill in the face if you ask them to.
So does Duncan. Don't regard something that's non canon
Non canon =/= out of character.
Or it's neither, and Elissa is the traitor, in an attempt to get her son back. She then killed all the ravens to cover her tracks, once she realized that they could get her son back without treachery.
I used to think that, but at this point I'm pretty sure Lady Forrester is innocent. I mean, why would Elissa strongly support the idea to rescue Ethan or deal with Gryff, only to go tell Ludd? I don't think telling him that you're planning to murder his son or storm his home is going to really help Ryon. If anything it'd put his life in danger. If she had protested the idea and then warned Ludd as a last restort to try and earn his mercy maybe I could buy that, but she goes along with and supports the plan. That goes completely against the reason she would act as a traitor in the first place.
And I'm not exactly sure how killing the ravens would cover the fact that she's a spy, unless she wanted to seem innocent by proposing such a plan. The problem with that is if she IS the traitor then she knows for a fact that word will not reach Ludd (Since she was the one leaking information.) killing the ravens does nothing but harm House Forrester by completely cutting off communication with the outside, and nobody suspects her in the first place to make covering her tracks like that necessary. I just can't see Lady Forrester being both a traitor and killing the ravens.
It's clearly Ortengryn. I don't get why so many people haven't realised this.
As you said "he always offer the worst advice"...............
I think maesters advice to Ethan "give whitehils all ironwood forest" sounds like worse advice to me
Touche ..... but I still think that Duncan is the traitor, I still remember how Ned trusted Petyr.
Agreed. I feel like a lot of people think the Maester being the traitor is just too obvious though.
Episode 4 basically screams in your face that it was Maester Ortengryn but some people think it too "Obvious", which is ridiculous since no one else fits the bill or has good reasons for spilling all that information to the Whitehills.
When you go to Highpoint, Gwyn points out that one of the brothers went to the citadel to become a Maester and that they were mean to Griff. TWO clues that confirm and shove's who the traitor is in your face.
I feel like it's pretty clear that the Maester can't be the Whitehill that went to the citedal. The in game biography even flat out states he's from a minor house in the Vale. It would be a cheap move for Telltale to lie about his past like that.
The in-game biography would only state what Maester Ortengryn would state and the characters you play as know or what they "think" they know. It makes total sense for Maester Ortengryn to lie about his background since he is becoming a Maester for a rival house.
Fair enough. Then let's use in game evidence to try and debunk this.
The citadel is not stupid. They would know that the Whitehills and Forresters are feuding families and would never send a Whitehill to work for the Forresters. That is just asking to cause problems between the family and the maester and harm the citadels reputation.
You could argue that he's hiding his identity but even that is a stretch. The Maester would have to convince the entire Citadel that he's a Valemen instead of a Northman and find a minor noble house in the Vale to back his story. The Maester wouldn't even have any reason to lie about this in the first place unless you argue that Ludd sent his son to the Citadel, gave him a cover story and told him to lie about his past in the hope that the Citadel would send him to Ironrath so he could act as a spy for this conflict he couldn't have possibly predicted. Given that Maesters don't choose where they are sent the odds that this plan would actually work are astronomically slim.
I just don't feel this doesn't make any sense and is way too convoluted. While I agree that the Maester is likely the traitor, I think this theory is just silly. There are plenty of other logical reasons the Maester could be the traitor.
I dont think hes a whitehill nothing points to that, hes just the only one who makes sense to be the traitor. They dont have to pull some massive no sense twist (which to be honest would be the case for the other three characters). If it isnt the maestor whats the point of him?
If the maester is not a whitehill, then he knows the whitehill who went to the citdadel and became friends there.
The citadel is not infallible...it is just as corrupt as any other institution or group in Westeros. If Sera can lie about her background about coming from a noble house that went extinct 200 years ago, from a potential suitor. Ortengryn as a Whitehill can pretty much have whatever identity he or his father chooses and the citadel well just shrug and take the bribe.
Well for the most part, Gryff's men probably can tell when they're having a council meeting. Odds are, after every meeting, when she's alone, a Whitehill man or two approach her and force her to write the letter on the spot. She also doesn't ever actively support the plan until she has a trump card.
As for the ravens, yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. She wanted to seem innocent, and that's a pretty innocent thing to do. Of course, killing the ravens does hurt the Forresters, but in a VERY minor way. At this point in the series, there's no one other than Mira and Asher who would be receiving letters from the Forresters anyways. And there are always more ravens.
He's probably doing that so they don't get killed since they're outnumbered and the Whitehills are backed up by the Boltons. He sent Gared to protect him and the only reason he is gone in Episode 3 is because he went North to do some Ironwood business at Castle Black/The Wall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that was Episode 3.
At the moment everyone could be the traitor:
-Duncan for trying to make peace with the Whitehills while they want to destroy the Forresters. Sending Garred to the wall without the approval of Ethan. Talking to Gwyn Whitehill without permission and beeing in contact with her without anyone knowing about it (shouldnt sending and bringing letters to the lord be the task of the maester?).Treating the Whitehill soldiers too well. Not trusting the maester AND lady Forrester about the north grove, and probably Royland if there had been an option to talk with him about the north grove. He didnt talked with Rodrik about the north grove (and Rodrik definetly isnt the traitor).
-Royland for trying to go into war with the Whitehills which would lead to the destruction of house Forrester. Dont thinking of the consequences of attacking/killing Whitehill soldiers, or even Ramsay Snow which would definetly destroy house Forrester.
-Ortengryn for possibly beeing a Whitehill (Griff taking revenge for all the time his brother tormented him). Beeing the one sending ravens to other places. Beeing a little to much avaricious/opportunistic (seeing only gold in the ironwood and wanting to join a big house).
-Elyssa for trying to save Ryon and giving Ludd some information. Possibly have had an affair/history with Ludd (the scene episode 1 where Ludd starts to show "some" respect for a moment when Elyssia starts talking to him).
-Some people are even saying Talia could be the traitor for beeing the least suspicious.
BUT you can also say everyone of them is "innocent" for different reasons:
-Duncan for trying to solve the mystery of the north grove and doing the last wish of lord Gregor. Beeing a little mad if hes not chosen as sentinel, even leaving Ethan alone with Ramsay (a traitor would still try to win the trust of the lord). Not trying to fight battles which would lead to destruction of house Forrester. Offering smart advice. Gained the trust of Gregor Forrester and has a "good" history with him. Saved Garreds life by sending him to the wall while Ethan had other matters to attend.
-Royland for hating the Whitehills and preparing his man for upcoming battles. Like Duncan: Beeing a little mad if hes not chosen as sentinel, even leaving Ethan alone with Ramsay (a traitor would still try to win the trust of the lord). Saving Rodrik after he has fallen from the cart (maybe he could have just put him back on the cart and send him away with the other corpses). Showing his hate for the Whitehills many times, sometimes even right infront of them. Crying at Ethans and Gregors funeral. Not winning very much by betraying the Forresters (a traitor-knight wouldnt get much respect from anybody).
-Ortengryn for saving Rodriks life and leg after the red wedding. Treating Garred very well and cured his leg so he has no problems with it later. Helping Ethan with the sentinel matter. And something I've never heard anyone talking about:
He studied the ironwood at the citadel and has been some years at Ironrath, so he has to know some things about crafting the ironwood or at least had access to documents or someone who is actually crafting ironwood. If he is the traitor he would have told Ludd how to craft ironwood.
-Elyssa for loving her children and always caring about Ryon. At the funeral she asked Rodrik to kill every last Whitehill, even their children. Dont wanting to lose her family again. Bringing up the idea about bringing back Asher with an army of sellswords.
-Talia for beeing too young to actually be a real traitor (with all the schemes and lists). Always caring about her family. Trying to convince Ethan to not change his personality. Trying to save Rodriks reputation. Offering Ethan/Rodrik her advice.
My opinion:
To be honest, I dont think theres a traitor in Ironrath. Ludd definetly gets information from someone, but I dont like the idea of having a traitor at Ironrath. Iam careful with my choices and listen carefully to each sentence, but Iam trusting everyone so far, unless I really know who the traitor is. But I think the real traitor is Tom. Mira is talking with him about almost everything (at the beginning of episode 4 you can see what I mean). He is stalking her, watching every move. Maybe he is reading the letters from Ironrath. And back in episode 2 (I think) Damien leaves a note in Miras room. Damien was probably the one who searched her room for informations, but it could also have been Tom who searched Miras room (or maybe both). Thats probably how Tom new about Miras meeting with Damien.
I really dont hope theres a traitor in Ironrath. But if I have to choose the traitor, I would choose Elyssa, cause that would at least be halfway understandable, and maybe we could choose if we want to forgive her or choose her punishment.
But I have a feeling that Telltale will make/made Ortengryn the traitor, but I wouldnt like that. I really like everyone at Ironrath. I tried to respect everyone of them. I made Duncan sentinel, cause he is wise and Gregor trusted him. I took Royland with me to Highpoint to show him I needed him with me. I ordered the Glenmores the help the maester instead of killing the Whitehills or taking their weapons. I promised Elyssa that I will keep the family first and save Ryon. I treated everyone fairly, so I really hope I get a "relatively" happy ending, at least without a traitor at Ironrath.