A Defence of Minecraft: Story Mode
Alright, so I've seen a lot of what I see as unjustified hate for this game on Youtube comments (which are notoriously irrational anyway) and the forums, and I just want to have a go at debunking them and reassuring people that this isn't necessarily going to be terrible. I'll try to be as logical, respectful and concise as possible in my counter-arguments. If you guys find flaws in my logic, then feel free to comment about it, and we'll see what happens.
The first and most common complaint that I've seen across both platforms is something like this "They should be making TWAU S2, this is crap". The problem here is the issue of entitlement, and I'm gonna have to use hard business talk here. Being a customer to Telltale doesn't make you entitled to have them do what you want. There is no forced obligation on Telltale to do what one person or one hundred people want them to do. Their obligation is to do what they think will benefit their company, and if they think a Minecraft game (with an already huge, established fanbase) will be better for their company than TWAU S2, then that settles it. A somewhat strained analogy would be of a sandwich shop. Imagine if it decided to not sell Ham and Cheese (HAC) sandwiches, and instead decided to sell BLTs. The shop would have no obligation to go around to each and every customer and ask if it would be a good idea, nor should it have to if it logically comes to the conclusion that BLTs will be better than HACs. And while HAC fans would be annoyed, it doesn't force the sandwich shop into reconsidering its decision, since those customers don't have a right to demand a certain product. The sandwich shop is selling BLTs. You can buy BLTs or not, but it is wrong to assume that the BLTs are terrible just because they discontinued HACs. Now, I'm not saying that Telltale doesn't care what some fans want, just that it isn't obliged to do what some fans want. And, while I am a huge TWAU fan, I think that Telltale have done what they needed to do with the franchise. As some people say, "It's better to leave them wanting more rather than leave them wanting no more"
To those that say that it messes with Minecraft's core mechanics, I say TFTB. Borderlands is traditionally an FPS-heavy franchise. What Telltale did - to a lot of early criticism - was to remove that core game mechanic and replace it with their own style of gameplay. And, it worked. TFTB has received a huge amount of acclaim, even with the significantly less emphasis on a core game mechanic that had so far defined the Borderlands franchise. So, Telltale have shown that they put their own stamp on an established IP without ruining the IP itself. Sure, it is only one example, but it is an example nonetheless. Therefore, I'm not worried on this front.
To those that say it is "Going to ruin Minecraft" or "adding a story where there doesn't need to be one", no necessarily. First of all, it's a separate game to Minecraft, so it won't "ruin" the original game if it does turn out to be bad. You can choose to buy it or not, so it won't ruin your Minecraft experience at all if you choose not to purchase it. And regarding the point about it forcing an unnecessary story, I point to TWD. Noone needed to know about the struggles of a man called Lee Everett, yet it was still a critical and commercial success. Just because it is unnecessary, it doesn't mean that its quality as a game is negated. Furthermore, people argue that Minecraft is a game about creating your own stories, and not just fulfilling those handed down to you. Well, this goes back to my point about core game mechanics being sacrificed in order for Telltale to do their thing. It doesn't matter if a game mechanic is sacrificed so long as it results in a better game afterwards. And, if you want to keep your Minecraft experience free and open to you, you don't have to buy the game. However, then there would be a possibility of you missing something good.
To those that point to "Bad graphics", firstly remember that this is a Telltale game. They aren't known for their graphics, they are known for their storytelling. And, to a Telltale fan in particular, you should remember that Telltale graphics don't negate the quality of their storytelling. For example, to this day TWD S1 is criticised for its graphics. But it isn't criticised so much on its overall quality. So, graphics aren't so important. Also, they are following the Minecraft art-style, which is a justified artistic choice anyway given that it is a MINECRAFT game.
To those that are concerned that it will be childish, that is pure speculation. Yes, Minecraft is predominantly a children's game. However, that doesn't mean that it will be dumbed down and free of complexity. This next point is arguable, but it is my opinion. I think that Borderlands would be classed equally as something like a children's game, because of its immature humour. That hasn't led to great, complex stories not being made in either the Borderlands franchise or TFTB. Plus, the trailer showed that the game actually doesn't have an age rating, so hold your fire until they do announce it.
To those that say that this is a clear "Cash-grab", well, isn't anything a company does a cash-grab? Telltale is a company, and it will do what it thinks will maximise profits. A Minecraft game seems like it will provide a lot of cash, since it is the most-watched game of Youtube, one of the biggest-selling games and is consistently in at the least the top 5 best-selling paid apps in both Itunes and Google Play. Telltale have just put on their business hat on, as they have a right to do as a free company. Just because the game is being made to be sold, it doesn't mean that it will be a poor product. If anything, Telltale will seek to make it the best product possible in order to keep the income flowing, in theory.
EDIT: Also, you could argue that this is being made because the people at Telltale are fans of Minecraft too, and have just been inspired to create their own story with the universe, giving them personal as well as financial incentives to actually work on this gameTo those that say that Telltale should focus on finishing their other games first, I kinda agree. I want Telltale to make sure that all of their content is to a high standard and delivered in a reasonable amount of time, and, if juggling different games affects that, then they shouldn't. However, I hope that they have learned from the debacle with TWAU and TWD S2 in this regard.
And to those that say that the trailer has put them off, remember that it is just a trailer. All it needed to show was a basic intro to the story, a basic intro to the characters, the art-style and what it hopes to be. And it succeeded in showing all of that. And, of course, the trailer can show you some things that you don't like. But the nature of a trailer is that it shows you some of the game, not all of it. So, it isn't wise to base any views of the game as a whole on one short trailer. At least wait until you have experienced the first episode before making grandiose, general statements.
And hey, trailers can be misleading. For example, when I saw the trailers for Guardians of the Galaxy, they put me off, making me think that the film had poor humour and wasn't that epic. But, after seeing the film itself, I found that my prejudices were totally false, and I ended up loving the movie as a fun, funny, epic, space opera. I would have never thought that it would have been like that based on the trailers I saw.ADDITIONAL POINT EDIT: And to those that don't like the Telltale game mechanics, you shouldn't be looking to buy Telltale games anyway. A lot of people have gripes with Telltale gameplay, and if it's not your thing, then you have the right to not buy the games. However, I would say that you should keep in mind the fact that it is a stye of gameplay that people do like and does work for their style of games. Hell, after trying it, you may even discover that you don't mind the Telltale style. Before I played Telltale's stuff, I didn't think that the gameplay would be entralling or effective in telling a story, and would damage their games. But, lo and behold, I now enjoy and appreciate their unique style of gameplay, even though I first thought that it would be something I wouldn't like. I suggest that people should at least try the gameplay for themselves
So yeah, those were my logical counter-criticisms. Again, if you spot flaws in my logic, comment on them and we can discuss them further. I'll admit that I'm a Telltale fanboy, so there may be some errors here, though I've proofreaded before posting this to try and avoid any of that. And, thanks for reading through all this, even though it is a wall of text. I appreciate the effort. I am between cautiously optimistic and slightly on the fence about this game, but I don't doubt that Telltale will give it a real go.
Comments
And of course, you are entitled to your own opinion, and I will respect that. But what I will try to debunk will be any misconceptions that can be proven wrong.
Excellent post.
The only things I really have against (Even if you can figure these against it) is that the story seems as if it could easily be told in a different universe, one Telltale could create, and be the exact same. Obviously, this game will be good but it seems to me that it is an attempt by Telltale to get money and it's name out to new groups of gamers and people. The hate towards Minecraft is also somewhat free publicity for Telltale...This is easily a very smart business move by Telltale but, if Telltale were to create the same story in their own universe, I can guarantee that it wouldn't have gotten so much hate. Skepticism, yes, as they would be doing something new and obviously some level of hate as...That's just how this community works but I feel as if it would also be a good business move on their part.
Many people are objecting to buying it and I too am on the fence but Telltale is doing their damnest to make this as appealing as possible...The voice actors alone are tempting me to buy it. I honestly don't know about the whole thing, I was one of the largest agitators against the game when it was announced, wasn't in my right mind at the time though too...but I still don't know, I might just watch it on Youtube even though that makes me feel guilty for not supporting the work Telltale does. Maybe I'll buy it after seeing how the first episode goes. Over all...Telltale did do a type of cash grab for this game, no one can deny that it was a move for a larger and more varied fan base even if that wasn't the main intent, but they are also trying their hardest to make this game good and I have to give it to them.
It depends on how they tell the story. Remember that it was stated that it was a Telltale story that could only be told in the world of Minecraft.
Someone pointed out that Telltale has stated that Jesse and his friends will be going to the Far Lands, which is an out of bounds area of Minecraft that players aren't meant to go to, but found (much like world -1 in Super Mario Bros.). It's stated that it takes approximately 4 weeks and 6 days of continuous walking to reach the Far Lands without teleporting, and the maps and players glitch out, and the player falls into The Void and dies.
There's definitely emotional story potential there, and if that's the direction they're going with the story, then opting to use the Minecraft universe for it rather than make their own world out of it would make sense. Otherwise it would be a deviation of an idea that came up from Minecraft without using Minecraft, which would be akin to having The Wolf Among Us story without basing it on the Fables universe. That wouldn't be right in my opinion, since it's only fair to use the scenario that gave you the inspiration if you have the resources to get the rights, and Telltale certainly does.
Your first point is wrong. It's nothing to do with feeling "entitled". Fans of Telltale or not, if you don't like a product they're trying to sell you, a customer has every right to say no. That's all this is. It's incredibly silly and damaging to brush these complaints to one side.
It's also a huge cash grab and to say every company does it really doesn't understand business. Because if they did, they'd know that the best businesses know how to make that money maker for years instead of weeks while not damaging their name in the process - Nintendo for example.
On top of that, it's also the wrong universe to go for. It would of made more sense to go after something like LEGO in all regards. Why? Because Minecraft's catch is not detail, not characters, not story and not anything else other then gameplay. What Telltale are attempting to do is build on a pre - established game that puts everything about their games in the bin. There's no real conflict in Minecraft. In fact, it's designed to be the complete opposite. So, why would it make more sense for LEGO? Because those world's are constantly changing and you'd have at least some platform to start from in the humour that spans across all LEGO media.
I absolutely agree with your point about this getting TELLTALE money and publicity. And it is a no-brainer, business-wise. And yeah I agree that a lot of hate is there because it is set in Minecraft. My hope is simply that it will be a successful gamble
Well, what I meant by "The story could be told in a different universe" was that the over all story arc could be told in a different universe. Of course if Telltale were to make a story in the Minecraft universe, they would use Minecraft elements like locations and enemies. I did notice Iron Golems in there as well as the normal enemies faced in the games...I would be dreadfully disappointed in Telltale if they didn't use enemies and locations from the game in their game.
The actual story, from what I see, is a group of heroes trying to recover an ancient artifact to stop the destruction of their world from an ancient terror. That story could be told in a universe Telltale could create, I would've been amazed if Telltale could do that.
It would be very interesting if they did use the Farlands as part of the story, and would probably bring some of the sceptics onside. Like you said, it would certainly justify the Minecraft setting
This game isn't exactly my style...I just, don't like it that much so I'll be skipping this one. However, I can definitely see this game working out fantastically if done right and I hope for the actual fans of Minecraft, that it is done right.
Well again that is your opinion and I respect it, since everyone has their own taste. But I'm still cautiously optimistic that they can pull it off. The results of good collaboration with other game studios are clear to see in TFTB, and I hope that that gets reflected in this game too, for Minecraft fans and Telltale fans alike
My first point was regarding how some people hate on this game because they feel Telltale should be doing another game instead. I didn't mean for it to suggest that customers don't have the right to say no. I meant that it is wrong to brush aside this game purely because people wanted another game instead, as you can see in the YouTube comment s for the trailer, with people saying "Should be Twau S2, this is crap". There, people were only dismissing the game purely because they wanted something else. Judge each game on its own merit.
And for your second point, it is true that it has damaged Telltale's name to some. However, think of how many more people have learnt about Telltale Games because of this upcoming game. That's a lot of potential customers, and therefore a lot of potential business. And, in theory, every company should be seeking to maximise profits - that's economic theory. So Telltale are merely acting on that instinct by working on a game that promised significant income
You could probably say something similar about The Walking Dead S1. If it was set in a generic zombie apocalypse universe, it would have been essentially the same game. They didn't make much use of the characters from the comics (Hershel and Glenn could have been easily replaced or even deleted from the game). The only other thing that set the comics apart from other zombie apocalypse stories was the whole you turn no matter how you die thing. They didn't do much with that other than at the end of Episode 2. They used The Walking Dead universe to draw fans of the comics and the show in, and that's what they appear to be doing with Minecraft. Nothing wrong with that.
...kinda like the Walking Dead, which also could've been its own game instead of using the exposure from a popular comic/TV show?
Even if you want to look at it from the angle of Telltale wanting money, that money can be used towards having larger, higher end production qualities for future Telltale series - or potentially, even mild engine improvements down the line kinda like how Wolf Among Us and Walking Dead Season 2 had a jump up in production qualities after Walking Dead Season 1.
You don't gamble your core fans for flags in the wind. That's stupidity, which is exactly what Nintendo did and it bite them in rear.
True...However, I'll mention your mistake in my next quote.
You painfully didn't pay attention then, it was a HUGE thing through the entire season...Both seasons actually.
But you assume that the core fans will leave Telltale because of this. I don't think one game can push away a fanbase. And you assume that this game will be bad. Only a bad game would drive away the fanbase as they would see that the gamble had failed.
Walking Dead was a pretty big gamble, no? Obviously I'm not insinuating Minecraft has the same potential of story telling quality, but risks aren't always a bad thing.
Absolutely right! I did mention that one post above you too, but they were posted at the same time. However, with the zombie vibe, they could've chosen any number of zombie roles to put them into but Telltale chose the best one for the job which not only had a large number of fans at the time but also fit in the dramatic feeling they mainly wanted.
Yes, I realized this while writing the original post, which was a reason I put the part in parentheses, since if you could figure that against the game or not. The money aspect is a smart one, yes, that is undeniable. Money has always been a big part in games and Telltale at that, although we sometimes like to deny that. It was smart move to choose Minecraft over any number of fantasy games or worlds or even making their own...The graphics don't have to be the greatest, looking at the trailer, they are in the Minecraft style which I assume cost much less than doing it in...perhaps The Walking Dead style or Tales style...It's more on the lines of Game of Thrones style...Nothing wrong with that of course since it's very original and unique to the game but it probably costs less which can help save money for improvements to other games or other features of the Minecraft game.
The Walking Dead did divide the fan base, and a lot of the gamers who were Telltale fans before the game came out, which were the core fans at the time, stopped buying Telltale's games. All of Telltale's games after The Walking Dead (save for Poker Night 2) used the same choices and consequences formula, and lot of the fans of Telltale's games prior to The Walking Dead wanted more of the puzzle based story games that Telltale had done in all of their games prior to Jurassic Park: The Game (again, poker games excepted).
That was a big gamble, and it paid off for Telltale in the end, as even though they lost a lot of their former core fan base, they gained a lot more new fans that now make up their new core fan base.
But, since Minecraft: Story Mode is going to use the same formula as all of Telltale's games since The Walking Dead, that's not going to happen here. Especially since they already have The Walking Dead: Michonne and The Walking Dead: Season Three in the pipeline.
Sadly you can't say the same with the licenses for games that the core Telltale fans prior to The Walking Dead enjoyed, although Kevin Bruner did say a poker sized game with Sam & Max would be coming in the future. I'm one of the original core fans, and one of the ones that didn't leave as I enjoy the new choices and consequences games, but I'd love to see another puzzle based story game by Telltale.
tl;dr
Kidding. I read it all. The only point I can really dispute was that you can compare the childish aspect of Minecraft to Borderlands, as it is a game for maturer audiences (by mature i mean older, there's definitely some immature humor and such). I pretty much agree with everything. You said all that I wanted to, just much better presented than what I would have written.
Wrong. Minecraft is definitely Man vs Nature (it's #3) which is absolutely a type of conflict. Surviving attacks from spiders, witches, Creepers, Endermen, zombies (sound familiar?), and many other types of things that want to kill you, making sure you don't starve, getting lost (I know this one all too well) drowning or falling from high places, don't accidentally fall (or get pushed by a mob creature) into lava and lose everything you had on you (especially if you had diamonds that you were gonna use to make diamond armor and a weapon so you could better defend yourself, and diamonds aren't exactly the easiest thing to find to boot!)
... Sounds like an awful lot of conflict to me.
Er...yeah, but it's not any good. Look at how lacklustre it appeared in the trailer for example.
We'll have to see I suppose. I'm not convinced with their current line up of projects that they'll keep many fans.
I give you cookies!
I agreed with most of your points except for saying TWAU did everything it could with the franchise. That sounds very dismissive of it when, as a reader of the comic (both of them), I know how much story potential there is.
But as for Minecraft storymode, i felt skeptical about TFTB because I knew it as a FPS and couldnt fathom what they were going to do with it and it turned out to be amazing, so I feel like people should wait and see how it turns out before they start bashing. I know thats not how these fandoms work, unfortunately, but i hope people will give it a chance. I dont have any personal interest in Minecraft but Im willing to at least see how it plays.
BTW, reading some of the YouTube comments, and yes most of them are typically ridiculous, when did Autism start getting thrown around as an insult?
I'm talking about it being a vital plot element. The Larry storyline could not have happened without it, but I really can't think of another situation where a minor rewrite wouldn't have worked. Like, in the prison bus in 400 Days, a strangled inmate turned into a zombie. If they had him be bitten by a zombie or had a zombie break into the bus, it would have been the same thing. Rebecca turned into a zombie after dying naturally, but she was taken out so quickly that they could have just skipped the zombie part. Apart from the Larry story, it just adds flavour, rather than being vital to the plot.
It's been a while since I played the games, so maybe I'm forgetting. Can you give me an example or two if you still think I'm wrong?
Bad conflict is still conflict. I thought the trailer was quite good and it definitely got me more excited, lol. But hey, differences of opinions.
I know it is an arguable point about the comparison with Borderlands, but that's just because of the immature humour that I feel is more relevant to younger gamers. I don't know, both games are enjoyed by children and adults alike, but my point was that younger gamers are more driven towards them. But anyway thanks for the comment, all I did was try to make it as logical and fair as possible (and benefit of the doubt)
Haha don't EVER look at the Youtube comments!
Well, I only played TWAU and have never read the Fables comics (although I might in future), so I don't know about any specific character arcs or plot points in the comics that could be explored in a future TWAU game. My reasoning was based purely on my experience with TWAU, and I think that the story there is closed (apart from the ending). It set up the relationship between Bigby and Snow, and from what I've heard from Fables readers, it seems like it served its purpose as prequel of sorts. But if they did announce a second season, I would be one of the first to buy the Season Pass
I wouldn't be counted as one of the original fans (TWD actually brought me in as one of the new core fans), and I had no idea that TWD did actually cause a split. I never experienced Telltale's puzzle games, so from my view there was no reason for a divide. It will be interesting to see if Story Mode does turn people off, but even then I don't see why. It is only one game out of many, and should only affect those who actually buy the game or watch playthroughs of it.
Several times when merely killing someone...Like giving a pill to Duck couldn't have worked because he would've turned, this caused Kat's death too. Cutting off Lee's arm could've saved him but bloodloss put him on the brink of death again which would cause him to walkerify, which created the tense final scene. Fivel in the house...He starved to death and he turned into a walker...This caused an emotional scene with Kenny.
Obviously any number of rewrites could change these but that could be with anything. Telltale chose a good franchise that gave them the type of dramatic setting they wanted with their game.
About your third point (Sorry, I only saw it now), I don't think that doing it with LEGO would have made more sense. First, Minecraft has an active, huge fanbase that is still growing to this day. LEGO on the other hand will have a much smaller fan-base, which may change given the success of their latest game, Lego Worlds. Second, Telltale can take advantage of Minecon to market their product more. Lego has no such convention anywhere near the size, scope or reach of Minecon. Third, Minecraft has a significantly larger online voice than Lego (most-watched game on Youtube), another thing for Telltale to take advantage of. And all of that is purely from a marketing perspective.
As to the rest of that point, just because Minecraft doesn't have the catch of characters or story, it doesn't mean that it can't have that. An example of this is the Youtube Minecraft Series "Shadow of Israphel", by the Yogscast. Essentially, a few gamers created a great story using Minecraft's in-game mechanics, and it proved to be a huge hit (the playlist alone for it has nearly 14million views). Now, imagine doing something similar but without the in-game restrictions of Minecraft. It's an out-of-field choice for a universe, but my reasoning says that it certainly isn't a wrong choice, as there is potential
Minecraft Story Mode isn't going to cause the same kind of split, as the games that Telltale are currently making will be continued to be made. Most of the older fans of Telltale have said that they would come back to Telltale if they start making puzzle based games again, so it's not the existence of The Walking Dead that actually caused the split. It's the fact that the only games outside of the poker games that were being made after The Walking Dead had the same mechanics as that game, and those fans didn't like that style of game play.
That's me.
Alright, that's good. I think people are starting to get a full stomach from all the food pictures.
Let's try to stick to responses that stay on topic and don't have as many food pictures. Thanks.
I hope you do read the comics someday. The Fables universe has dozens of characters and many of them have had major storylines, even spin offs. Bigby and Snow are major characters but theyre only a small part of the story and even then, they have other aspects of their story, prequels, side stories, etc, that have nothing to do with their relationship. A second season wouldnt even have to be about Bigby at all eventough his character in the game is so good. Thats what i mean when I say there is a lot to draw from.
I agree with everything you said! Bravo!
Me, I'm skeptical of this game, but I'm keeping my hopes up. I don't like Minecraft (too open ended) but I feel like I'll like this. I won't buy the season pass for this one, though. Just episode 1, then maybe the rest of the season.
Also, most of the hate I've seen towards Telltale in general in the youtube comments is: "Telltale should stop making movies and start making REAL games. Boo! Telltale sucks!" "Their games aren't even games.. " and so on...
To that I say: Go play some other game then, why are you wasting your time looking at a game you clearly don't enjoy? Shoo!
Exactly, those comments and dislikes from people who are fully against Telltale's style just creates an inaccurate representation of fan reception
i think the trailer could have been better, all i know about that game from the trailer is that it is a minecraft game made by telltale.
i think they should have done a character trailer, because from what i have heard the characters have their own roles (or type of minecraft player equivalent) ie. architect, redstone engineer, griefer etc. and if the trailer could have introduced the game by showing this i think the reception would have been better, i mean it seems like the main character is a newb, but that is all i could really tell, i don't like spoiler trailers, but i think more would have been better in this case
Clapping. More clapping.
That was one of the best posts I've ever read. I agree with everything you say, and I'm 98% for Minecraft: Story Mode. But the reason why the 2% is against the game is because this game may just make Minecraft seem totally different. What if they change the way you play, the reason why you play, stuff like that? Well, guess I gotta wait for the game to come out, huh. Then the haters will stop hating.