The mom for me would have made more sense than either of those 2 as well because it would be understandable why (she wants to get Ryon back so she is willing to do anything possible to make that happen and Ludd could have blackmailed her & she seems like she has a past with Ludd *from the way he acts differently around her as compared to everyone else)
Yeah, it was a pretty dumb move on Telltale's part making it determinate, because it really satisfies no one and just seems incongruous with the rest of the story. I feel like Telltale are a little oblivious of just aware we are of how their game mechanic works, and the flaws that shine through because of this.
For instance, if you didn't know that it's determinate, when the traitor is revealed you'd be like, 'oh, well, I thought it was Ortengryn, but apparently it's Royland. I wouldn't have guessed that, but whatever.'
But given we understand the game mechanic, and realise that it is determinate, and therefore apparently both Royland and Duncan were predisposed to become traitorous, despite that not really making sense for either character, the message Telltale is giving us is - who the traitor turns out to be is largely irrelevant and it's all Ethan's (i.e. the player's) fault, but also entirely unavoidable. Despite it sounding contradictory: Your decisions matter, but in a way that essentially doesn't matter.
Now of course, the decision between Asher and Rodrik works a lot better. But it still falls into that predictability trap. Namely, if one is dead, then the other can't be very long for this world either. Just like your Sentinel probably won't be either now.
It just makes no real sense to me. Especially with Duncan. I mean, he sent Gared to the Watch to protect the Forresters, and then convinced him to turn deserter to find the North Grove - to protect House Forrester. Then he turns his cloak for the Whitehills, because Lord Ethan chose the wrong Sentinel? Really?
So Gared is the one who really get's screwed if you choose Royland as Sentinel. What was Duncan going to tell him if he did come back with the secrets of the North Grove? 'Sorry nephew, forget all that nonsense about being honorbound to the House that raised us up from nothing. We work for the Whitehills, who are destroying our land and people now. Yes, the ones that killed your father and sister, and got you sent to the Wall.'. Gared would have run him through with his sword! I know i would have.
Royland, i can see how he would justify turning his cloak. He is a warrior and only really respects strength, and the Forresters have been projecting weakness to throw off the Whitehill garrison. But half the reason we look so weak is Because of the Traitor, so fuck!?
Right? I was dumbfounded when I found out the traitor is actually determinant. I'm still pretty upset with it. I'd believe Rodrik was the traitor long before I could believe Royland, it especially sucks because I really like Royland but now in a majority of playthroughs he'll be most peoples' traitor.
Slighty off topic. but is your username a reference to Ornstein and Smough?
The Sentinel may last a bit longer, just for the fact that you can leave him alive instead of killing him. Whereas one of the brothers must stay behind to die.
Yeah, it was a pretty dumb move on Telltale's part making it determinate, because it really satisfies no one and just seems incongruous with… more the rest of the story. I feel like Telltale are a little oblivious of just aware we are of how their game mechanic works, and the flaws that shine through because of this.
For instance, if you didn't know that it's determinate, when the traitor is revealed you'd be like, 'oh, well, I thought it was Ortengryn, but apparently it's Royland. I wouldn't have guessed that, but whatever.'
But given we understand the game mechanic, and realise that it is determinate, and therefore apparently both Royland and Duncan were predisposed to become traitorous, despite that not really making sense for either character, the message Telltale is giving us is - who the traitor turns out to be is largely irrelevant and it's all Ethan's (i.e. the player's) fault, but also entirely unavoidable. Despite it sounding contra… [view original content]
Pretty dumb? Yeah. I agree. But either it's just lazy writing where they don't even bother to cover all their inconstancies & plotholes in the story now. Maybe they were rushed for time, if so, I suppose I can give some leeway. Both Duncan & Royland become traitors at different times in the episodes-- leading to the whole meeting about Gwyn with the traitor. The Traitor has supposedly been giving information away since Episode Two but both Duncan & Royland's reasons state that they started in Episode Three.
Especially with Royland; so, Gwyn said that the Whitehills knew about the plan to Rescue Ryon/Expel Gryff, right? But all the weaknesses in Rodrik that Royland mentions are after that. Submitting to Gryff, Not bringing the Glenmores, etc.
Duncan seems to have more solid reasoning than Royland. (But of course they both excuse Rodrik of being too Weak/Reckless. & blaming Ethan too.) He seems to have started earlier compared to Royland due to mentioning that he didn't kiss Ludd's ring, which leads me to believe he started up in Episode Two.
But for Royland, it still has some inconstancies with him. Yet-- Both are supposed to be extremely loyal to the House. They were both known to be deeply rooted in their standing for their House. & a clash of Ideology & not being chosen as Sentinel is what makes them turn Traitor? That's what makes them start to break apart? It goes against their character. & making it determinate made it worse; making it either lazy writing, or they didn't care, or as said it's largely irrelevant & doesn't matter in the long run but unavoidable either way.
Yeah, it was a pretty dumb move on Telltale's part making it determinate, because it really satisfies no one and just seems incongruous with… more the rest of the story. I feel like Telltale are a little oblivious of just aware we are of how their game mechanic works, and the flaws that shine through because of this.
For instance, if you didn't know that it's determinate, when the traitor is revealed you'd be like, 'oh, well, I thought it was Ortengryn, but apparently it's Royland. I wouldn't have guessed that, but whatever.'
But given we understand the game mechanic, and realise that it is determinate, and therefore apparently both Royland and Duncan were predisposed to become traitorous, despite that not really making sense for either character, the message Telltale is giving us is - who the traitor turns out to be is largely irrelevant and it's all Ethan's (i.e. the player's) fault, but also entirely unavoidable. Despite it sounding contra… [view original content]
It makes even less sense if your were to do something like choose Duncan as sentinel but then choose to follow ALL of Royland's advice (take the Glenmores to Highpoint, stand up to Gryff, starve out the Whitehills, etc.)
It just makes no real sense to me. Especially with Duncan. I mean, he sent Gared to the Watch to protect the Forresters, and then convinced … morehim to turn deserter to find the North Grove - to protect House Forrester. Then he turns his cloak for the Whitehills, because Lord Ethan chose the wrong Sentinel? Really?
So Gared is the one who really get's screwed if you choose Royland as Sentinel. What was Duncan going to tell him if he did come back with the secrets of the North Grove? 'Sorry nephew, forget all that nonsense about being honorbound to the House that raised us up from nothing. We work for the Whitehills, who are destroying our land and people now. Yes, the ones that killed your father and sister, and got you sent to the Wall.'. Gared would have run him through with his sword! I know i would have.
Royland, i can see how he would justify turning his cloak. He is a warrior and only really respects strength, and the Forresters have b… [view original content]
It was simply bad writing. Feel like they wanted to say "SEE, YOUR DECISIONS MATTER", but it was more like "I mean, your dead brother's decision matter. Like, you know, even if the rest of the story doesn't make sense IT MATTERED. Okay in the end both of them will do the exact same thing for the exact same reason and have the exact same fate so it doesn't REEEEEALLY matter that much on that regard but... You get the drill!".
It just makes no real sense to me. Especially with Duncan. I mean, he sent Gared to the Watch to protect the Forresters, and then convinced … morehim to turn deserter to find the North Grove - to protect House Forrester. Then he turns his cloak for the Whitehills, because Lord Ethan chose the wrong Sentinel? Really?
So Gared is the one who really get's screwed if you choose Royland as Sentinel. What was Duncan going to tell him if he did come back with the secrets of the North Grove? 'Sorry nephew, forget all that nonsense about being honorbound to the House that raised us up from nothing. We work for the Whitehills, who are destroying our land and people now. Yes, the ones that killed your father and sister, and got you sent to the Wall.'. Gared would have run him through with his sword! I know i would have.
Royland, i can see how he would justify turning his cloak. He is a warrior and only really respects strength, and the Forresters have b… [view original content]
Right? I was dumbfounded when I found out the traitor is actually determinant. I'm still pretty upset with it. I'd believe Rodrik was the tr… moreaitor long before I could believe Royland, it especially sucks because I really like Royland but now in a majority of playthroughs he'll be most peoples' traitor.
Slighty off topic. but is your username a reference to Ornstein and Smough?
It makes even less sense if your were to do something like choose Duncan as sentinel but then choose to follow ALL of Royland's advice (take the Glenmores to Highpoint, stand up to Gryff, starve out the Whitehills, etc.)
I'm hoping to see some redemption point for them where they try to fix their mistake in the next episode. Where either they die to protect a Forrester or they send the Whitehills false information. Something that doesn't leave the [Spare them] option as pointless if nothing comes of it. & they're probably moved to the cells to stay until later.
Nothing yet, but it might have an effect on the next episode. Royland for example says that he'd serve Asher so if he's your traitor and you left Rodrik behind then maybe something'd happen? That's just one example though. But yeah, no difference at all this episode but next episode may have an effect.
does the traitor tell you ludd's plans / are you more prepared for the final scene or no? (in one of the playthroughs the person took until the last second to kill duncan and he said he knew of ludd's / gryff's ambush plan)
Nothing yet, but it might have an effect on the next episode. Royland for example says that he'd serve Asher so if he's your traitor and you… more left Rodrik behind then maybe something'd happen? That's just one example though. But yeah, no difference at all this episode but next episode may have an effect.
The Traitor says that the Whitehills were going to ambush you at the trade and that if you kill him then "Asher dies." Killing him makes no difference in regards to character deaths. Next episode there might be some small change if you let him live, but it probably won't be too notable. Although I've seen Kotar (just above us ^) mention a redemption arc type thing which I think could be cool, but I won't let my traitor live regardless.
does the traitor tell you ludd's plans / are you more prepared for the final scene or no? (in one of the playthroughs the person took until the last second to kill duncan and he said he knew of ludd's / gryff's ambush plan)
It makes even less sense if your were to do something like choose Duncan as sentinel but then choose to follow ALL of Royland's advice (take the Glenmores to Highpoint, stand up to Gryff, starve out the Whitehills, etc.)
I appointed Duncan as Ethan, but followed Royland's advice almost entirely as Rodrik. But Royland went "Yeah, but you kissed Ludd's Ring, so I'm going to do what I think is best for this House and Lord Gregor by bringing ruin to the entire family and Ironrath." There isn't even any attempt to justify the traitor's actions, to make them a sort of "I did it to save us!" sort of thing. They just do it out of spite, and then the game tries to make killing them a tough choice.
I appointed Duncan as Ethan, but followed Royland's advice almost entirely as Rodrik. But Royland went "Yeah, but you kissed Ludd's Ring, so… more I'm going to do what I think is best for this House and Lord Gregor by bringing ruin to the entire family and Ironrath." There isn't even any attempt to justify the traitor's actions, to make them a sort of "I did it to save us!" sort of thing. They just do it out of spite, and then the game tries to make killing them a tough choice.
What's worst, it completely destroys one character or the other. Throughout the game, both have been extremely loyal and helpful, and that's why choosing between them all along was so difficult, because neither was explicitly the "wrong" option. But now, it just takes whichever one you didn't slightly elevate while playing a teenager, and makes them an all out hateful villain. I'd like to have at least felt some remorse as I was basically forced to kill one of my two most loyal and important advisors, but no, the game just saps all the likability out of whoever you didn't give the glove to.
TellTale seems to be consistently dropping the ball with plot holes and bad writing in the second-to-last episodes of each of their games.
TWD Season 2's second-to-last episode had massive plot holes and bad writing too. (Apparently because they changed everything at the last moment. You can tell how rushed and horrible that whole scene was. Reading why that episode made little sense (they changed stuff at the end and tried to add shock value too in a very lazy way) explains a lot. Er...maybe that was the final episode? Trying not to spoil anything: The scene with the ice.
It was simply bad writing. Feel like they wanted to say "SEE, YOUR DECISIONS MATTER", but it was more like "I mean, your dead brother's deci… moresion matter. Like, you know, even if the rest of the story doesn't make sense IT MATTERED. Okay in the end both of them will do the exact same thing for the exact same reason and have the exact same fate so it doesn't REEEEEALLY matter that much on that regard but... You get the drill!".
This episode is looking to be really weak, to me.
Not just to you.
TellTale seems to be consistently dropping the ball with plot holes and bad writing in the second-to-last episodes of ea… morech of their games.
TWD Season 2's second-to-last episode had massive plot holes and bad writing too. (Apparently because they changed everything at the last moment. You can tell how rushed and horrible that whole scene was. Reading why that episode made little sense (they changed stuff at the end and tried to add shock value too in a very lazy way) explains a lot. Er...maybe that was the final episode? Trying not to spoil anything: The scene with the ice.
Comments
Yes it does. And it sucks ahving a determinant traitor.
Yes it does. I still say it should've been the Mother, or the Maester.
Maester made the most sense. I remember when people joked about this situation occurring
The mom for me would have made more sense than either of those 2 as well because it would be understandable why (she wants to get Ryon back so she is willing to do anything possible to make that happen and Ludd could have blackmailed her & she seems like she has a past with Ludd *from the way he acts differently around her as compared to everyone else)
Yeah, it was a pretty dumb move on Telltale's part making it determinate, because it really satisfies no one and just seems incongruous with the rest of the story. I feel like Telltale are a little oblivious of just aware we are of how their game mechanic works, and the flaws that shine through because of this.
For instance, if you didn't know that it's determinate, when the traitor is revealed you'd be like, 'oh, well, I thought it was Ortengryn, but apparently it's Royland. I wouldn't have guessed that, but whatever.'
But given we understand the game mechanic, and realise that it is determinate, and therefore apparently both Royland and Duncan were predisposed to become traitorous, despite that not really making sense for either character, the message Telltale is giving us is - who the traitor turns out to be is largely irrelevant and it's all Ethan's (i.e. the player's) fault, but also entirely unavoidable. Despite it sounding contradictory: Your decisions matter, but in a way that essentially doesn't matter.
Now of course, the decision between Asher and Rodrik works a lot better. But it still falls into that predictability trap. Namely, if one is dead, then the other can't be very long for this world either. Just like your Sentinel probably won't be either now.
Really dumb honestly. They should've made the traitor the Maester IMO
That certainly would have made more sense.
It just makes no real sense to me. Especially with Duncan. I mean, he sent Gared to the Watch to protect the Forresters, and then convinced him to turn deserter to find the North Grove - to protect House Forrester. Then he turns his cloak for the Whitehills, because Lord Ethan chose the wrong Sentinel? Really?
So Gared is the one who really get's screwed if you choose Royland as Sentinel. What was Duncan going to tell him if he did come back with the secrets of the North Grove? 'Sorry nephew, forget all that nonsense about being honorbound to the House that raised us up from nothing. We work for the Whitehills, who are destroying our land and people now. Yes, the ones that killed your father and sister, and got you sent to the Wall.'. Gared would have run him through with his sword! I know i would have.
Royland, i can see how he would justify turning his cloak. He is a warrior and only really respects strength, and the Forresters have been projecting weakness to throw off the Whitehill garrison. But half the reason we look so weak is Because of the Traitor, so fuck!?
Right? I was dumbfounded when I found out the traitor is actually determinant. I'm still pretty upset with it. I'd believe Rodrik was the traitor long before I could believe Royland, it especially sucks because I really like Royland but now in a majority of playthroughs he'll be most peoples' traitor.
Slighty off topic. but is your username a reference to Ornstein and Smough?
The Sentinel may last a bit longer, just for the fact that you can leave him alive instead of killing him. Whereas one of the brothers must stay behind to die.
Pretty dumb? Yeah. I agree. But either it's just lazy writing where they don't even bother to cover all their inconstancies & plotholes in the story now. Maybe they were rushed for time, if so, I suppose I can give some leeway. Both Duncan & Royland become traitors at different times in the episodes-- leading to the whole meeting about Gwyn with the traitor. The Traitor has supposedly been giving information away since Episode Two but both Duncan & Royland's reasons state that they started in Episode Three.
Especially with Royland; so, Gwyn said that the Whitehills knew about the plan to Rescue Ryon/Expel Gryff, right? But all the weaknesses in Rodrik that Royland mentions are after that. Submitting to Gryff, Not bringing the Glenmores, etc.
Duncan seems to have more solid reasoning than Royland. ( But of course they both excuse Rodrik of being too Weak/Reckless. & blaming Ethan too. ) He seems to have started earlier compared to Royland due to mentioning that he didn't kiss Ludd's ring, which leads me to believe he started up in Episode Two.
But for Royland, it still has some inconstancies with him. Yet-- Both are supposed to be extremely loyal to the House. They were both known to be deeply rooted in their standing for their House. & a clash of Ideology & not being chosen as Sentinel is what makes them turn Traitor? That's what makes them start to break apart? It goes against their character. & making it determinate made it worse; making it either lazy writing, or they didn't care, or as said it's largely irrelevant & doesn't matter in the long run but unavoidable either way.
It's one big contradiction.
It makes even less sense if your were to do something like choose Duncan as sentinel but then choose to follow ALL of Royland's advice (take the Glenmores to Highpoint, stand up to Gryff, starve out the Whitehills, etc.)
It was simply bad writing. Feel like they wanted to say "SEE, YOUR DECISIONS MATTER", but it was more like "I mean, your dead brother's decision matter. Like, you know, even if the rest of the story doesn't make sense IT MATTERED. Okay in the end both of them will do the exact same thing for the exact same reason and have the exact same fate so it doesn't REEEEEALLY matter that much on that regard but... You get the drill!".
This episode is looking to be really weak, to me.
Yes
Awesome.
That's exactly what I did
does anyone know what happens if you spare the traitor?
probably will sent to a cell and relased by whitehills later or killed by them
I'm hoping to see some redemption point for them where they try to fix their mistake in the next episode. Where either they die to protect a Forrester or they send the Whitehills false information. Something that doesn't leave the [Spare them] option as pointless if nothing comes of it. & they're probably moved to the cells to stay until later.
Nothing yet, but it might have an effect on the next episode. Royland for example says that he'd serve Asher so if he's your traitor and you left Rodrik behind then maybe something'd happen? That's just one example though. But yeah, no difference at all this episode but next episode may have an effect.
does the traitor tell you ludd's plans / are you more prepared for the final scene or no? (in one of the playthroughs the person took until the last second to kill duncan and he said he knew of ludd's / gryff's ambush plan)
The Traitor says that the Whitehills were going to ambush you at the trade and that if you kill him then "Asher dies." Killing him makes no difference in regards to character deaths. Next episode there might be some small change if you let him live, but it probably won't be too notable. Although I've seen Kotar (just above us ^) mention a redemption arc type thing which I think could be cool, but I won't let my traitor live regardless.
I did most of those too. I submitted to Gryff only so he wouldn't beat Talia, but otherwise i was pretty defiant of the Whitehills.
I appointed Duncan as Ethan, but followed Royland's advice almost entirely as Rodrik. But Royland went "Yeah, but you kissed Ludd's Ring, so I'm going to do what I think is best for this House and Lord Gregor by bringing ruin to the entire family and Ironrath." There isn't even any attempt to justify the traitor's actions, to make them a sort of "I did it to save us!" sort of thing. They just do it out of spite, and then the game tries to make killing them a tough choice.
Right? I hate how they can go from honourable and loyal characters to "git rekt m7 witehils 4 teh win."
What's worst, it completely destroys one character or the other. Throughout the game, both have been extremely loyal and helpful, and that's why choosing between them all along was so difficult, because neither was explicitly the "wrong" option. But now, it just takes whichever one you didn't slightly elevate while playing a teenager, and makes them an all out hateful villain. I'd like to have at least felt some remorse as I was basically forced to kill one of my two most loyal and important advisors, but no, the game just saps all the likability out of whoever you didn't give the glove to.
Not just to you.
TellTale seems to be consistently dropping the ball with plot holes and bad writing in the second-to-last episodes of each of their games.
TWD Season 2's second-to-last episode had massive plot holes and bad writing too. (Apparently because they changed everything at the last moment. You can tell how rushed and horrible that whole scene was. Reading why that episode made little sense (they changed stuff at the end and tried to add shock value too in a very lazy way) explains a lot. Er...maybe that was the final episode? Trying not to spoil anything: The scene with the ice.
Did you have to bring this Dead thread here?