To the Lilly supporters...
I joined this forum recently, and see a lot of support for Lilly. I'm obviously pro-Carley and a little biased, I'll admit, but I don't really see what the appeal of Lilly is (was?). I'm asking honestly, not trying to troll, and I'm certainly willing to listen to a case for her. It just seems that (on my playthrough at least) she was aggressive and controlling and kind of lost it towards the end. And obviously shooting Carley/Doug bothered me. Even if Carley HAD been stealing meds, which she wasn't, I don't think just straight up murdering her was the right way to handle it. I don't know, like I said I'm interested to hear the case for Lilly.
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Other than her strong will, I really can't think of her having any positive characteristics. Shes one of the very few characters in the entire game that I can't find a reason to like.
I'm not exactly a fan of hers but in mine she accidently shot doug and felt terrible about it. She snapped out of anger after watching her father get brutally slaughtered and losing her home
She wasn't exactly a good person even before losing her father though.
I understand losing her father was hard for her, but shit, in this world everyone loses people close to them. You've got to move on, it's no excuse to go off the deep end and blow someone else's head off.
Some don't understand the support for Kenny, but what difference does it make?
Kenny certainly had his issues, and I'm not a fanboy or anything, but there are moments where he specifically and deliberately helps you out. Coming back for you at the end of Episode 1, for instance. And it seems like the game is putting Lee and Kenny together into lots of scenarios, so that good or bad you're supposed to develop some kind of relationship with him. Lilly was more of an ancillary character, which is why it confuses me that she has such unabashed support from some people. Her biggest two plot points were fighting with Kenny (which he contributed too, I'm not blaming her completely), and shooting Doug/Carley in the face.
Lilly I think also mainly gets a lot of heat from folks (even though it is understandable) for defending her asshole of a father throughout the whole time she was in season 1 even after he died she still had bitter and hard feelings for a man that no matter what would not turn over a new leaf. And even though she says he lost so much, so has everyone else but she felt he only gets a pass for behaving that way because he was her father. But like I said it is understandable for a daughter or son to defend their parents in most cases even if they are in the wrong generally. Perhaps if Lilly didn't have some of the same short fuse and aggressive hostile traits as her father and being irritable all the time then more might have liked her. Kenny had his moments too whenever you disagreed with him which is kind of immature and childish of a man his age and should be wisdom but he had more of a cool head and helping hand I guess if you had his back "Every damn minute" like Lee said in the penultimate end of "Around Every Corner."
I'm sure she would have moved on if Larry got killed by walkers or something.
But he got killed by someone in her group. And if she can''t trust the group anymore she really has nothing left in the world. Where would she move on to? She's stuck with these assholes.
And then on top of that someone starts stealing supplies. I would have lost it too.
Lets be real here, Larry got killed by Larry.
Why does Kenny always need to be brought up in these Lilly discussions? The OP was simply looking for info on why Lilly fans support Lilly.
I think Lilly disagreed.
She did, but what does it matter? Her denial is yet another character flaw.
Larry was without a pulse for how long? He was dead. When you add that to the fact that it doesn't take all that long to reanimate.. the group made the logical choice.
I'm guessing you're not too close to your father...
(I get the downvotes for this comment, but in my defense I replied to the first sentence. The rest was edited in after I replied.)
What does that have to do with anything? I'm not saying she shouldn't grieve; she should. That doesn't make it okay for her to be stupid about the situation.
She shot Carley for NO reason. I will for ever hate her.
I think she was on most people's bad side even before that incident. I had a little hope for her, but that was the icing on the cake.
A minute is not long enough to declare someone dead.
I'm pretty sure he was dead too, but in Lilly's eyes he/they didn't even give him a chance. Which is the same as murdering him.
I get that, and I don't blame her for being upset with Kenny/Lee, even though they made the right decision. But that had nothing to do with her freaking out about the missing meds and killing Carley/Doug, or just in general being unpleasant to everyone.
Exactly
Why are you making her out as the bad guy? Shel determinately took the RV and left Roman's group to die.
If Lilly had it her way everyone in the meat locker would have been dead.. including a little 8 year old girl. I could see her being in denial in the moment, but looking back at it she should be able to see it differently.
Larry was down for almost exactly two minutes (9 seconds short). How long does it take to reanimate? Somewhere around that same time frame right? In the time it took Kenny/Lee to destroy Larry's brain, he could have reanimated. How long do you think they should have waited exactly?
I ain't much of a Lily fan, I'm more of a Kenny fan of course judging by name. But I think most people like her because of her strong will to Survive, the "Kill or Be Killed" attitude. She ran the place well and didn't take no risks, that's why people like her in my opinion.
There are a few people who are vocal about drawing false equivalences between Lilly and Kenny and "not understanding" why Lilly is so hated.
There are even a fewer number of people who outright say they like Lilly, who is objectively the most terrible awful bipedal creature in the zombie apocalypse.
Only Sam is worse than Lilly, and for that he suffers in Dog Hell until the coming of Ragnarok.
It doesn't matter if its determinant. You show her mercy and she takes advantage of it. What a fantastic person.
What are you talking about? Resuscitation attempts can take up to 30 minutes.
This is going to be a little long to read, so I'm going to take the risk and tell my story of how I saw Lilly in my playthrough:
I imagine it's because Lilly is stuck in the unfortunate situation where she happens to be the daughter of a highly strung and hot tempered man who was openly hostile to everyone, and she didn't dare to side against him as everyone else did and some likely held her in low esteem for that, especially since her plea to help Larry ended up him attacking Lee by the end of Episode 1. She was also stuck in the unfortunate situation where she opposed Kenny, who was immediately respected by Lilly's group the moment his group merged with her team, and Lilly likely saw that as a small betrayal on her part.
It didn't help that it appeared that she was dependent on him as much as he was dependent on her (and possibly controlling too), and one he was gone she became alone and scared, especially with a crowd that clearly didn't care much for her, and the theft act was just icing on the cake that lead to her breakdown. Sure she could try to make friends once Larry was gone, but her father was brutally slaughtered in front of her and the group didn't mourn for him. If they didn't mourn for Larry, why would they mourn for Lilly?
She didn't want to step down from leadership even if she could (remember that she didn't ask to lead her group, as she was likely forced by her father), and that's probably because she was trying to hold onto anything that reminded her of her father. She also wanted to keep the motel security plan running as it was all she had to keep her stable after losing her father.
Then everything gets worse for Lilly after her father dies. Supplies goes missing and no one wants to believe her, and shortly after asking Lee to investigate and getting evidence, the motel is ambushed by bandits. A fight ensues and groups of walkers arrive, leaving the entire motel inhabitable. She's then forced to flee with the man (and possibly Lee too) who was responsible for the death of her father, justified or not. Not wanting to give up, she tries to resolve the theft mystery, and still no-one wanted to believe her. Her patience runs thin and she either accuses the right or wrong person, and is still intent on catching someone responsible for the motel being overrun and forcing the group to flee with no supplies.
After a long stressful argument with no-one taking her side with everyone defending the guilty party (Ben) and possibly being insulted to go along with it, Lilly finally snaps and ends up executing Carley (in response to the insult) or Doug (who takes the bullet for Ben). Within seconds her reputation is shattered, and she is either abandoned by the group she had tried to protect, or is taken hostage by them, forcing her to steal the RV to avoid being at the mercy of what used to be her group.
That's about it. From my perception I don't see Lilly as evil but flawed, and I don't hate her for what she has done (not anymore at least). Looking into her character I found myself pitying her for struggling to maintain her role which was doomed to fail from the start.
I'm not sure how I can explain it better than I did in my first post.
As for being unpleasant. Part of it is taking her side or not, same as with Kenny.
The other part I think has to do with having Larry as a dad. Having to stick up for him all the time. That would make anybody a bit cranky.
Plus she was nice to Clem, so there's that.
I left her behind. She killed Doug. I. Liked. DOUG! I was also thinking of Clementine's safety.
That is an excellent post and the best assessment of Lilly's situation and possible motivation for her behavior that I've seen so far. Thank you for taking the time to write that. I won't say it completely changed my mind on Lilly (I'm definitely biased against her because I was pro-Carley from the start), but you definitely made me look at her with new perspective. Thanks!
Two different situations. Shel made a moral choice, and one that many people would probably make themselves. Lilly had just murdered an innocent person. This isn't apples to apples, and it's why most people blame/hate Lilly but think Shel taking the RV was the right move, or at least understandable.
You're welcome, and thank you for taking the time read my post.
I hate Lilly as well, but there have been countless mounts of "To the Lilly Lovers" threads. How about you join one of them and stop clogging up the forum.
I have been having 2 discussions on why Lilly is not a bad person and they have some really good points. However I will stand by Lilly unless she messes up in S2 if she returns. So without further ado I will post my opening statement.
Why do you guys not want Lilly back so much? Seriously whats up with all the hate? Obviously you do not see characters as Lilly fans do. As UndeadEuan said... Lilly killed Carley out of anger. Lee killed the senator out of anger. I know killing Carley/Doug sucked but this is the walking dead. People die. And for some reason when your watching Jolene's video and Clementine is playing with chalk on the sidewalk. Lilly goes up to Clementine kneels down and talks to her. That may not mean much but it means a lot to me. She lost it a little but seriously. How would you feel if a person you hated dropped a salt lick on one of your parents heads. That's really brutal if you ask me.
Kenny scared Clementine even more. He drops a salt lick on a mans head right in front of her. He swears all the time in front of her. He runs away with Duck leaving Shawn to die. He becomes a hard man who's only goal is a boat. He takes the food in the car when Lilly and Clementine disagree. Kenny wants to shoot the girl while Lilly would rather end her suffering. He would rather look for a boat then let Omid rest up.
I honestly don't see how people like Kenny more then Lilly. Its a mustache, then a beard... WHO CARES? He makes the rashest decisions. I agree killing Larry had to be done but I would rather he eat us all then let Clementine witness that crap. Its the zombie apocalypse, Kenny's decisions are for survival but they are inhuman. If we are no longer human then what is the point of living?
For the Larry part I have decided that killing him had to be done but it is still horrible. Instead if I was in that situation I would tell Kenny to hold the salt lick over his head and if he had any signs of reanimation or zombifying then drop it.
There are multiple threads like this already, but whatever. I liked Lilly. Before her breakdown, she feels like an aggressive character done right, and I found the conflict with Kenny interesting because neither came across as totally right or wrong on multiple issues. Both had their own view on the group's survival, and both made valid points.
She wasn't inherently cruel like the bandits, or snarky for the sake of it like Molly, she was just another survivor who emphasized what she felt had to be done in a terrible situation.
She can save your life just for attempting to help her father, while Kenny looks on out of spite, and she seems to accept Lee as the last person she can trust afterwards. Unfortunately, she still becomes increasingly unstable, and murders someone because of it. I suppose it would be impossible for everyone in the group to act like that didn't happen, so she becomes isolated regardless of your decisions.
Carley was awesome, man. I think even before lilly was a fighter, but kind if a jerk. And when she killed carley i left her behind.
I never said anything about the limit of resuscitation time, go back and read. I realize theoretically you can bring someone back long after their heart stops beating. 30 mins is clearly not an option in this situation though. I don't understand how you're not realizing that Larry can reanimate as a walker in way less time than that. Seriously, why would they take the risk? In some cases in TWD universe people have reanimated in less than two minutes.
You also didn't answer my question. How long do you think they should have tried to bring him back? Again, remember that Larry could reanimate very quickly.
I love how people down vote but don't offer an explanation as to why they don't agree
Well, if you didn't try to kill Larry (I tried to revive Larry) she becomes very loyal to you and you are the only one she treats with respect. She never really gets mad at you after that. I'm not someone who actually "supports" Lilly, but I don't hate her even though she killed Carley/Doug. She went psycho and I kind of understand why.
And she also shoots Andy when he's trying to push Lee in the electric fence.