I kind of got the impression she was telling Bigby the truth, in a way. The whole "You're not as bad as everyone says you are" wasn't exactly a subtle nod to some of "Faith's" last words.
"Hey. Hey, Bigby, see what I did there? That's what I sai- I mean, what Faith said that one time, too. See what I did? :P "
I believe that it was really Faith in the beginning, it was shown that girls would take each others shifts and Nerissa and Faith probably glamoured themselves to look like the other (Nerissa might have been doing Faiths shift, since Faith was doing Lily's) and have been glamoured that way when Georgie kills "Faith", which was actually Nerissa. Faith uses the situation to stay glamoured and escape punishment and sends Nerissas head to Bigby.
It was established that Faith was the one who was covering for Lily and has gone to Woodsman.
MIrror couldn't see Faith, saying "these lips are sealed", probably due to the fact that it was Nerissa who was dead and either the ribbon that Faith wore or the fact that she was glamoured as Nerissa prevented it from seeing her. Anyway he should be able to show dead Faith, but that is what we would see if we asked to see Nerissa instead as it was her.
Doctor Swineheart needs more time with the body of "Faith" that we never get to see. That indicates there is something wrong with "Faiths" body, whether Swineheart figures it out and decides to play coy or is simply puzzled and haven't figured it out yet I don't know...
"Nerissa" reacts to Bigby in episode 2. (while dancing to Georgie) in a interesting way, as if she recognizes him and wants to tell him something.
At the end the line "She would hide her true beauty so she could escape his Kingdom" told earlier by Bufkin reffers to Faith and her story as a fable, if it wasn't her, there's no reason for that particular line in the final scene.
If Nerissa took the beating from Woodsman she would probably still have her bruises on when returning to her real form, while Faith being glamoured afterward as Nerissa would probably negate the bruises. (by the way thing with the bruises on the severed head is wrong either way as it is the girl who is still alive who took beating, whether it is Faith or Nerissa, so it must be a plot hole or the bruises were later made by Faith/Nerissa to match the other face).
I admit that timeline works somewhat better if Faith was killed before the beginning of episode 1 and it was Nerissa posing as her, but many other things work much better if it was actually Faith all along glamoured to look like Nerissa and the game practically spells it out. Some things either way remain hanging loose, but it is due to the fact that the twist was obviously forced into the game. There are probably plot holes.
I think the most plausible explanation of all is that Nerissa saw Georgie kill Faith. Georgie knew about the shift change, so told Nerissa t… moreo take it in Faith's place. Then, wanting to expose it all in spite of the ribbon, used a hair off Faith's head, wound a drunk Woody up in order to get Bigby down to sort it out. She used this opportunity to plant Faith, the work and an oppressive boss into Bigby's mind. Since then, she's been a money-grabbing whore (literally) to Bigby and pointed him in the right direction.
Edit: this idea was put in my head by Rob K above and has been expanded upon in another thread. Sorry.
I posted my theory why I think it was Faith on second page of this thread.
Still some things don't fit either way...
The question here is, who stole the photo, Faith or Nerissa and which one betrayed the other girls by telling Georgie about the plan? If Faith at the end of episode 5 talked about herself in third person and pretended to be Nerissa then it was Nerissa who told Georgie about the plan, but why the hell would she glamour herself as Faith if she expected Faith to get punished? Maybe she didn't and got herself killed by accident, though it is hard to imagine. And did Faith knowingly let Nerissa get herself killed then? One thing is certain, there were three people present at that point - Faith, Nerissa, and Georgie.
But the way she tells it seems like she genuinely is the one who told Georgie about the plan as she cries because she had to rat her friends out (or she simply acts very good), so if it was Nerissa who stole the photo why would Georgie kill Faith? And what if Faith figured out that she screwed up and by stealing the photo and told Georgie about it... but wouldn't he know that the girl who he was killing wasn't really Faith or was Faith glamoured as Nerissa at that point and deliberately set Nerissa up to get killed? It doesn't strike me like she would set Nerissa to get killed, but doesn't she has a least bit of honor and compassion to save her friend by saying "I'm the real Faith"? Maybe it happened to fast and she didn't get to react and after the murder she figured "what's done is done, better to keep this charade and pose as Nerissa from now on"...
Too many questions, I hate these stupid plot twists in the end. TTG really should have explained the goddamn ending.
Ok... So after reading like 8 forums, a couple hundred responses all over the web in referencing the ending, a few LP's + my own observations of playing the game, this is what I've come up with as to what happened in the ending. Keep up lol because it can get a bit confusing, but this is what I feel the facts lead up to.
SPOILER!!
The Faith that you see in Episode 1 is Faith. This is because after the Nerissa in episode 5 (who is also Faith) says she (referring to the real Nerrisa) ratted out Faith and Lilly to Georgy, and in the trial, the same Nerissa says that Georgy wouldn't have carried out any hit on a fable unless it was the Crooked Man's orders to do so, we can assume that the real Nerissa, before episode 1 felt guilty of doing this and took on Faith's image in order to protect her from any threat, and because the three of them were close friends, they probably knew that Lilly glamours herself more than any one of them, meaning her risk of getting caught would be less than Faith's. So before episode 1, Faith and Nerissa swapped each others' image. So in other words, we never met the real Nerissa.
Going into episode 1, in between Faith's fight with the Woodsman and the finding of Faith's (Nerissa's) head on the stoop, that is when the situation that Nerissa (Faith) explains in episode five happens. Faith glamoured as Nerissa was sitting at the Pudding N Pie talking to Georgy about how he had talked to the Crooked Man about the situation the real Nerissa had gotten the girls into by tattling. But before Faith (as Nerissa) could stop Georgy by telling him that she was Faith, as soon as Nerissa came in glamoured as her, he ripped the ribbon off, killing Nerissa instantly thinking that was the real Faith.
Now Faith, feeling bad about one of her best friends dying in her place, decided to come up with a plan to destroy the Crooked Man's operation with the only person she felt like would get involved (Bigby) if she made it a point to expose that all of Fabletown was involved, hence, all the clues and appearances she had throughout the season trying to help Bigby stay on the right path. Faith, just having finished the fight with the Woodsman, remembering that Bigby was called and protected her, realizes that he really has the potential to care about her best friend's murder (and at this point, she probably knows that there's a high chance that Lilly is dead too). And, because she knew that it was a seriously dangerous and complex operation, glamoured as Nerissa, she placed her friend's glamoured head on the stoop, to insure that the case would not be dropped. (Fabletown's government had a tendency to drop cases that were serious to Fabletown's citizens (like Lilly's disappearance)).
Now the reason I back this up so far is because of two things:
Faith was a master of disguise. Her being "Donkey Skin" allowed her to hide her true beauty, meaning that she could disguise herself probably in any situation (hence Bufkin's words at the end when Bigby is flashbacking).
Dr. Swineheart's autopsy, being a doctor who can save any fable from the brink of death (which means he's an excellent doctor), couldn't report what happened to Faith. I believe this is because he figured out that something was "off" with the body. He probably figured out that the body was glamoured, and up to the end of the game was trying to figure out who the the girl (or whatever) glamoured as Faith was. But, he could never suspect Nerissa because the real Faith was glamoured as her almost the whole game. This was vital to Faith's plan that no one figure out that the real Nerissa was dead due to her disguise.
Now one thing I saw people question was the glamour tube and the effects of it. Glamours wear off either by time limit or the opening/breaking of the tube. (You realize this through not only Lilly, but your experience with Auntie Greenleaf as well). Once the tube is opened/broken the effects wear off. If a fable dies with a glamour in effect, the glamour will still be in effect until the time limit wears off(hence Lilly and Fables needing refills for them) or it is broken or opened. Because of this fact, I feel like Faith hid the glamour tube that Nerissa had to keep the effect of Faith's image so that no one could discover it and open it before the time was right, for that would unravel the plan she had worked so hard to set into motion (probably hidden in that little bag she held around).
So the events of the game take place, you arrest or kill the Crooked Man, and kill or leave to suffer Georgy, and Bigby finally takes out the massive corruption that has plagued Fabletown for years. Faith finally decides to come out (in the most subtle way possible) that she was the one leading the investigation all along. And she is finally free of the people who imprisoned her.
One more thing; I don't think this makes Faith evil for glamouring herself as Nerissa. This is because of three reasons:
If she didn't care about Nerissa and her fate, she wouldn't had led the investigation and Bigby and Snow to finding out about the corruptness of Fabletown's underground.
She did the only thing she could do if no one but her and possibly Lilly knew about Nerrisa glamouring herself to look like her. And if Nerissa died as Faith, she couldn't deactivate the glamour, because then the real Nerissa and the real Faith would die (totaling 3 girls dead instead of two), and revealing Nerissa as the real victim would have side tracked the investigation to finding where the real Faith is, which would have alerted Crooked Man by the means of Crane, since he was heading the investigations at the time in Fabletown.
How would you feel if your best friend was murdered looking like you? You would want revenge for yourself and them. Not to mention, EXTREME GUILT; especially when Nerissa, Lilly, and Faith originally thought the whole thing wouldn't be taken as far as murder if they tried to leave a strip club.
But yeah guys, that is my long, LONG, explanation on what I think happened through the whole game that came to the ending's revelation of Faith being Nerissa and Bigby never have met the real Nerissa.
If I have missed something or left something out that I might have overlooked, or if you need me to clarify something just reply to the post.
It's not. If Faith was glamoured, then she don't need to tell about all this. She told the story as it was and then a little hint for Bigby to realize.
If it was real Nerissa, then it makes no sense not to admit. She's already said that it was her attracting Bigby to the case, she could add that she even tried to be Faith. But nope.
I agree with everything you wrote here, if you look up about what I wrote here you'll see that it matches in some points with yours theory.
Still there's one thing I don't agree with, actually you contradicted yourself at one point and I agree with your first theory, but not the second. You first said that the situation with Nerissa getting killed happened between Faiths fight with Woodsman and her leaving Nerissas glamoured head at Bigby's doorstep (and I completely agree with this, I think it happened right after she got back from Woody's and as soon as Nerissa got killed she decided to bring her head to Bigby, you'll remember that she knows where he lives), but then you said that she staged fight with Woodsman to see if Bigby can help her out with her friends murder, which if what you first said was true, haven't happened yet.
Theory with Nerissa is very good, but like was mentioned before (I'm glad that I found here the same thoughts), why Nerissa didn't tell that she was Faith in the beginning, and it was the start of her plan to attract Bigby? She told everything, she could mentioned that fact easily.
And if it is Faith, then she have reasons not to mention this - seems that she wants to disappear, slip away. She can give a little hint, but only for Bigby. There's no evidence after all.
And the other thing - Mirror. I think there is something in his words about Faith. He could show the dead body, because magic should disappear after taking the ribbon, but there was a mystery. It is a big hint that she is alive.
I just joined this conversation to ask one question why was Nerrisa saying a bunch similar things faith said that night was she trying to get caught or was she trying to tell bigby something
Satisfied with the episode. My game score is subjective (as well as my scoring system, heh), I think it's the best game so far (yes, under impression), but critics rated even higher. I'm not saying how masterful Telltale's work is, this is obvious, but measuring by their standarts (as I see them), the first point of ten (ideal) I would substract because of lack epicness almost anywhere except battles. The ending, which I didn't immediately relize, fixes it fully. Nonetheless, during the unique first playthrough experience I didn't know about this compensation. Another minus point for the scene where Crooked Man directs his gun at Bigby - it is clear that he is lawful evil, yet not that lawful. IRL to happen what happened, both (smart) men would have to go gaga at the same time. However, after ending I understand the reasons for which Telltale "tolerated" this, and still at that moment I felt facepalm. Mentioning the secondary characters - even though nothing is happening with them, they developed and revealed greatly (not per game but per episode). That's it, a little spoil in general terms, but I tried. However, need to think to spoil the ending, it's done really professional. No one expected it. And you know what, for showing that the world has never been divided into black and white, I rate 10/10.
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this but I wanted to point out that when Bigby find's Faith's head he estimates that it had been done within an hour or so.
Just wondering-according to the legend, doesn't Faith need the donkey coat to be able to change? We don't see it after Toad's apartment, do we? So, wouldn't Faith need the coat, in order for the whole fable within the fable to make sense? Sure, it could be a glamour, but that just seems cheap...
The ending is a classic noir staple, just like Edward James Olmos at the end of Blade Runner "too bad she won't live, but who does?" etc. and it makes a very strong case that Narissa is Faith, but, it's a little clunky in execution. I'm pretty sure there'll be a sequel considering the reviews and the sales. Perhaps things will be cleared up then.
The coat is not a regular glamour, it saysit hides her true beauty so by wearing it she probably appears as someone whi isnt particulary beautiful, if it was all faith she probably uses a glamour tube.
To tell you the truth, though I have been enjoying the Fables comics immensely and will surely miss them very much I am also glad that they are coming to an end, I'd rather have it finish on a strong note than drag for years until it remains but a shadow of it's former quality. There has already been a noticeable drop in quality since the war with the adversary arc ended, for me they never regained the quality of first 60 or so issues, so I am presuming that if they didn't decide to end it, comic would drop in quality even more.
I am big fan of Vertigo graphic novels and I think that closing their storylines is something that really works well for them, this isn't Marvel or any other superhero comics publisher which tell and retell the same stories for decades and make reboots every second one or so, they usually have one or two main themes that go through an entire run of the comic which they tend to explore and then bring to its end in a strong and satisfying manner. They often make full circle and it is the storytelling I personally like and respect the most.
I don't know if it was brought up before, but I wanted to mention something. This thread became another discussion about Faith/Nerissa, but I want to focus your attention on those pictures. If you look at them closely, you can notice something interresting. It is visible on some of the pictures, especially in the corners of them, that they were taken from behind a glass or a window or something alike. Photos of Faith and Bigby have similar thing in the top left corner and that thing looks like a fragment of a car door to me. All that makes me believe that the pictures were taken from a car. I think I don't need to mention who was present throughout the season in most of the places where the action took place and was mostly seen in the car - the Ginger guy. I think he took those photos. Sorry if it was obvious or something, but I just want to see what's your opinion on that and I didn't see anyone mentioning that.
I also think that because the mirror didn't show Faith after she was allegedly dead, and used the "my lips are sealed" excuse proves that she was still wearing the ribbon (which the corpse clearly was not). I also like to think that Faith was the less obvious and more important "Wolf Among Us" because she was the predator that no one saw. She was manipulating the entire thing and we don't really know what was truth and what wasn't. She clearly had no problem bending the truth to get what she wanted and there could have been more that she made up for all we know.
She secretly had everyone wrapped around her finger and could just have easily been a retaliating victim as a conniving predator out to get whatever she wanted at any cost.
Mirror can definitely show dead people, it showed skeleton of Faiths father, it is most probably due to the fact that Faith was alive and glamoured as Nerissa or maybe the ribbon she wore prevents it from seeing her.
I just want some clarity.
When Bigby tried to find Faith via the Magic Mirror.
Why couldn't they find her?
Is it because the mirror doesn't show dead people or doesn't show glamoued people?
...or is a different reason entirely?
I don't know if it was brought up before, but I wanted to mention something. This thread became another discussion about Faith/Nerissa, but … moreI want to focus your attention on those pictures. If you look at them closely, you can notice something interresting. It is visible on some of the pictures, especially in the corners of them, that they were taken from behind a glass or a window or something alike. Photos of Faith and Bigby have similar thing in the top left corner and that thing looks like a fragment of a car door to me. All that makes me believe that the pictures were taken from a car. I think I don't need to mention who was present throughout the season in most of the places where the action took place and was mostly seen in the car - the Ginger guy. I think he took those photos. Sorry if it was obvious or something, but I just want to see what's your opinion on that and I didn't see anyone mentioning that.
I think it was a lead-in to buy the comics, not a season 2 unfortunately. I wish Telltale would let us know for sure about that.
The ending confused me. All I know is that the person we knew as faith in the beginning is the same person at the end. Whether it's actually Faith or Nerissa, I can't figure out for sure. I'd like to think it's Faith glamored as Nerissa, but I just don't know.
If it's supposed to be a lead-in, it's a damn good one. I've read the books and have to say, they raised the bar with this game. No idea how… more they will decide to work in future episodes given the comic content that already exists, but I really hope they work something out.
1)the blood on the dead body of 'faith' had been stale for an hour, so the faith Bigby met be4 shouldn't be the same
2)faith had to go for lily's shift so the one who met Bigby IMO was the REAL faith
3)we find out that the spell was caused by the ribbon that faith was NOT wearing after death, so the mirror should have no problem locating faith specially since her body was in fabletown office/ someplace which won't use magic to hide her head while under examination by Dr.Swineheart, so it is kind of implied that faith wasn't wearing the ribbon and by extension, dead
4)george killed faith in private, so nerissa, faith and george are supposed witnesses of the murder, 2 of them are confirmed so nerissa/faith can again lie about the event and get away with it
5)although i think she needs the coat in the fable story told in the game, the reason bufkins dialogue came up was to imply the nature of how faith dealt with her problem be4 by hiding herself and leaving the place eventually, something she would have successfully done if she is alive
my theory: george came to kill faith and nerissa feeling guilty for rating out, glamoured herself as faith and by the time the real faith found out about this to save herself she glamoured as nerissa this whole time + we still can't confirm with evidence how the murder actually happened so anything is possible
I agree with most of this, except I think Faith is a bit more guilty than you.
My hypothesis is that the real Faith did try to blackmail her way out and the real Nerissa was scared enough to reveal her plan. After Faith found this out, she arranged for Nerissa to be glamoured as her and take the fall in her place. I'm thinking that Faith arranged for a swap with Nerissa the night the incident with the Woody happened, and didn't take Nerissa's form to intentionally draw Bigby to the scene. While this happened, the real Nerissa took the form of Faith to take care of her normal job, putting her in a position to be in Faith's form when she was to be executed. This was both to preserve her life, and take revenge for what she may have seen as betrayal from Nerissa.
The crooked man and his lot being out of power is a good thing, but what I see as Faith's manipulations paint her exempt her from being innocent in my eyes.
I don't think so. There is one thing that pretty much confirms that it was Faith and not Nerissa in the end. When Bigby started to put it to… moregether and got flashbacks of Faiths and Nerissas dialogues there is also dialogue told by Bufkin saying: "would hide her beauty so she could escape his kingdom", which refers to Faiths fable story. If it wasn't Faith, why would that line be there?
To confuse you? The truth is, I don't know why that one line is there, but it would be silly to let one line dissuade you from believing what otherwise makes complete sense. There would be no purpose at all in Faith pretending to be Nerissa or glamoring Nerissa's dead body to look like Faith. Just makes no sense.
It does, however, make complete sense that Nerissa would be cheesed off by the wanton murder of her two best friends and basically work around the enchantment on the ribbon to "call the cops", by meeting Bigby while glamored as Faith, getting him to care, and then presenting a mystery that Fabletown couldn't ignore. If she had simply dropped the body on the doorstep, they wouldn't have a clue where to begin looking, as nobody knew this obscure Fable. Nerissa also wouldn't want to be obviously involved, because she knows her head would just be next on the chopping block.
I don't know...I just think you're reaching for something that isn't there. This is the noir version of Occam's Razor. It's not an Agatha Christie ending where the two thousand red herrings basically mean any character could have done it.
I don't think so. There is one thing that pretty much confirms that it was Faith and not Nerissa in the end. When Bigby started to put it to… moregether and got flashbacks of Faiths and Nerissas dialogues there is also dialogue told by Bufkin saying: "would hide her beauty so she could escape his kingdom", which refers to Faiths fable story. If it wasn't Faith, why would that line be there?
I agree 100%. I've read through the series three times now, plus the Jack books and the Cinderella books, and I've been reading Fairest (which is pretty fantastic, actually), but the series has been going for a long time, and especially since they've now gone through three "is this the end of Fabletown?" storylines, it's about time for it to come to a close. But I don't think that issue 150 will necessarily be the last we see of the Fabletown gang. On a semi-related note, if you're not reading Unwritten, you ought to be.
To tell you the truth, though I have been enjoying the Fables comics immensely and will surely miss them very much I am also glad that they … moreare coming to an end, I'd rather have it finish on a strong note than drag for years until it remains but a shadow of it's former quality. There has already been a noticeable drop in quality since the war with the adversary arc ended, for me they never regained the quality of first 60 or so issues, so I am presuming that if they didn't decide to end it, comic would drop in quality even more.
I am big fan of Vertigo graphic novels and I think that closing their storylines is something that really works well for them, this isn't Marvel or any other superhero comics publisher which tell and retell the same stories for decades and make reboots every second one or so, they usually have one or two main themes that go through an entire run of the comic which they tend to explore and then bring to its end in a… [view original content]
Im pretty certain at this point the real Nerissa tells Faith that she went to Georgie, Faith is angry and they probably agree on a switch so if Georgie or Crooked Man retaliates she is the one to take the blame.
Well, it's interesting to see, in the picture on the bottom right, that Faith and Nerissa were having a heated argument.
I wonder what it was all about.
I firmly believe it was narissa as faith. In the convo narissa tells bigby she tried to warn lilly that night,but she wasn't at her usual appointment. That was narissa as faith,at the woodsman trying to warn lilly. And if u remember,the tweedles were trying to find something faith took from them,that had to be faiths head.
That doesn't make sense, they where definitely looking for the pictures with Crane, Tweedles appeared after you found the head and pretty much everyone already knew about the murder. Also doesn't make sense to look for Faiths head at her place or Woodsmans if they already know shes dead.
I firmly believe it was narissa as faith. In the convo narissa tells bigby she tried to warn lilly that night,but she wasn't at her usual ap… morepointment. That was narissa as faith,at the woodsman trying to warn lilly. And if u remember,the tweedles were trying to find something faith took from them,that had to be faiths head.
Sure it does. If u killed someone u get rid of the body. Same way they dumped lilkys in the lake. If someone takes it,youd want to get it back wouldnt u?
That doesn't make sense, they where definitely looking for the pictures with Crane, Tweedles appeared after you found the head and pretty mu… morech everyone already knew about the murder. Also doesn't make sense to look for Faiths head at her place or Woodsmans if they already know shes dead.
The way I see it, the very last picture that shows Faith pointing at Nerissa is proof that Nerissa is actually the one who told Georgie, so Faith covered for her after he killed her. Thus the story "Nerissa" told us at the end was true but switch the names.
That doesn't make sense, they where definitely looking for the pictures with Crane, Tweedles appeared after you found the head and pretty mu… morech everyone already knew about the murder. Also doesn't make sense to look for Faiths head at her place or Woodsmans if they already know shes dead.
It wouldn't be added into the narrative if it wouldn't make any sense, you simply don't just put any line for the sake of it in the most important scene, and especially not in the moment of protagonists epiphany in the crime investigation genre. It is a most basic, schoolbook rule when writing a story.
And there would be purpose for it. There would be purpose for both possibilities, I am to tired and lazy to post again, so you'll forgive me for not giving detailed explanation of the theory right now, but you can find it in several threads on this forum. I've found that theory that it was Faith actually fits better and has less plot holes than the one where it was Nerissa.
If it wasn't Faith, why would that line be there?
To confuse you? The truth is, I don't know why that one line is there, but it woul… mored be silly to let one line dissuade you from believing what otherwise makes complete sense. There would be no purpose at all in Faith pretending to be Nerissa or glamoring Nerissa's dead body to look like Faith. Just makes no sense.
It does, however, make complete sense that Nerissa would be cheesed off by the wanton murder of her two best friends and basically work around the enchantment on the ribbon to "call the cops", by meeting Bigby while glamored as Faith, getting him to care, and then presenting a mystery that Fabletown couldn't ignore. If she had simply dropped the body on the doorstep, they wouldn't have a clue where to begin looking, as nobody knew this obscure Fable. Nerissa also wouldn't want to be obviously involved, because she knows her head would just be next on the chopping block.
… [view original content]
Comments
I kind of got the impression she was telling Bigby the truth, in a way. The whole "You're not as bad as everyone says you are" wasn't exactly a subtle nod to some of "Faith's" last words.
"Hey. Hey, Bigby, see what I did there? That's what I sai- I mean, what Faith said that one time, too. See what I did? :P "
I believe that it was really Faith in the beginning, it was shown that girls would take each others shifts and Nerissa and Faith probably glamoured themselves to look like the other (Nerissa might have been doing Faiths shift, since Faith was doing Lily's) and have been glamoured that way when Georgie kills "Faith", which was actually Nerissa. Faith uses the situation to stay glamoured and escape punishment and sends Nerissas head to Bigby.
It was established that Faith was the one who was covering for Lily and has gone to Woodsman.
MIrror couldn't see Faith, saying "these lips are sealed", probably due to the fact that it was Nerissa who was dead and either the ribbon that Faith wore or the fact that she was glamoured as Nerissa prevented it from seeing her. Anyway he should be able to show dead Faith, but that is what we would see if we asked to see Nerissa instead as it was her.
Doctor Swineheart needs more time with the body of "Faith" that we never get to see. That indicates there is something wrong with "Faiths" body, whether Swineheart figures it out and decides to play coy or is simply puzzled and haven't figured it out yet I don't know...
"Nerissa" reacts to Bigby in episode 2. (while dancing to Georgie) in a interesting way, as if she recognizes him and wants to tell him something.
At the end the line "She would hide her true beauty so she could escape his Kingdom" told earlier by Bufkin reffers to Faith and her story as a fable, if it wasn't her, there's no reason for that particular line in the final scene.
If Nerissa took the beating from Woodsman she would probably still have her bruises on when returning to her real form, while Faith being glamoured afterward as Nerissa would probably negate the bruises. (by the way thing with the bruises on the severed head is wrong either way as it is the girl who is still alive who took beating, whether it is Faith or Nerissa, so it must be a plot hole or the bruises were later made by Faith/Nerissa to match the other face).
I admit that timeline works somewhat better if Faith was killed before the beginning of episode 1 and it was Nerissa posing as her, but many other things work much better if it was actually Faith all along glamoured to look like Nerissa and the game practically spells it out. Some things either way remain hanging loose, but it is due to the fact that the twist was obviously forced into the game. There are probably plot holes.
Well, it would be GREAT if TTG actually EXPLAINED the ending...
I posted my theory why I think it was Faith on second page of this thread.
Still some things don't fit either way...
The question here is, who stole the photo, Faith or Nerissa and which one betrayed the other girls by telling Georgie about the plan? If Faith at the end of episode 5 talked about herself in third person and pretended to be Nerissa then it was Nerissa who told Georgie about the plan, but why the hell would she glamour herself as Faith if she expected Faith to get punished? Maybe she didn't and got herself killed by accident, though it is hard to imagine. And did Faith knowingly let Nerissa get herself killed then? One thing is certain, there were three people present at that point - Faith, Nerissa, and Georgie.
But the way she tells it seems like she genuinely is the one who told Georgie about the plan as she cries because she had to rat her friends out (or she simply acts very good), so if it was Nerissa who stole the photo why would Georgie kill Faith? And what if Faith figured out that she screwed up and by stealing the photo and told Georgie about it... but wouldn't he know that the girl who he was killing wasn't really Faith or was Faith glamoured as Nerissa at that point and deliberately set Nerissa up to get killed? It doesn't strike me like she would set Nerissa to get killed, but doesn't she has a least bit of honor and compassion to save her friend by saying "I'm the real Faith"? Maybe it happened to fast and she didn't get to react and after the murder she figured "what's done is done, better to keep this charade and pose as Nerissa from now on"...
Too many questions, I hate these stupid plot twists in the end. TTG really should have explained the goddamn ending.
Ok... So after reading like 8 forums, a couple hundred responses all over the web in referencing the ending, a few LP's + my own observations of playing the game, this is what I've come up with as to what happened in the ending. Keep up lol because it can get a bit confusing, but this is what I feel the facts lead up to.
SPOILER!!
The Faith that you see in Episode 1 is Faith. This is because after the Nerissa in episode 5 (who is also Faith) says she (referring to the real Nerrisa) ratted out Faith and Lilly to Georgy, and in the trial, the same Nerissa says that Georgy wouldn't have carried out any hit on a fable unless it was the Crooked Man's orders to do so, we can assume that the real Nerissa, before episode 1 felt guilty of doing this and took on Faith's image in order to protect her from any threat, and because the three of them were close friends, they probably knew that Lilly glamours herself more than any one of them, meaning her risk of getting caught would be less than Faith's. So before episode 1, Faith and Nerissa swapped each others' image. So in other words, we never met the real Nerissa.
Going into episode 1, in between Faith's fight with the Woodsman and the finding of Faith's (Nerissa's) head on the stoop, that is when the situation that Nerissa (Faith) explains in episode five happens. Faith glamoured as Nerissa was sitting at the Pudding N Pie talking to Georgy about how he had talked to the Crooked Man about the situation the real Nerissa had gotten the girls into by tattling. But before Faith (as Nerissa) could stop Georgy by telling him that she was Faith, as soon as Nerissa came in glamoured as her, he ripped the ribbon off, killing Nerissa instantly thinking that was the real Faith.
Now Faith, feeling bad about one of her best friends dying in her place, decided to come up with a plan to destroy the Crooked Man's operation with the only person she felt like would get involved (Bigby) if she made it a point to expose that all of Fabletown was involved, hence, all the clues and appearances she had throughout the season trying to help Bigby stay on the right path. Faith, just having finished the fight with the Woodsman, remembering that Bigby was called and protected her, realizes that he really has the potential to care about her best friend's murder (and at this point, she probably knows that there's a high chance that Lilly is dead too). And, because she knew that it was a seriously dangerous and complex operation, glamoured as Nerissa, she placed her friend's glamoured head on the stoop, to insure that the case would not be dropped. (Fabletown's government had a tendency to drop cases that were serious to Fabletown's citizens (like Lilly's disappearance)).
Now the reason I back this up so far is because of two things:
Faith was a master of disguise. Her being "Donkey Skin" allowed her to hide her true beauty, meaning that she could disguise herself probably in any situation (hence Bufkin's words at the end when Bigby is flashbacking).
Dr. Swineheart's autopsy, being a doctor who can save any fable from the brink of death (which means he's an excellent doctor), couldn't report what happened to Faith. I believe this is because he figured out that something was "off" with the body. He probably figured out that the body was glamoured, and up to the end of the game was trying to figure out who the the girl (or whatever) glamoured as Faith was. But, he could never suspect Nerissa because the real Faith was glamoured as her almost the whole game. This was vital to Faith's plan that no one figure out that the real Nerissa was dead due to her disguise.
Now one thing I saw people question was the glamour tube and the effects of it. Glamours wear off either by time limit or the opening/breaking of the tube. (You realize this through not only Lilly, but your experience with Auntie Greenleaf as well). Once the tube is opened/broken the effects wear off. If a fable dies with a glamour in effect, the glamour will still be in effect until the time limit wears off(hence Lilly and Fables needing refills for them) or it is broken or opened. Because of this fact, I feel like Faith hid the glamour tube that Nerissa had to keep the effect of Faith's image so that no one could discover it and open it before the time was right, for that would unravel the plan she had worked so hard to set into motion (probably hidden in that little bag she held around).
So the events of the game take place, you arrest or kill the Crooked Man, and kill or leave to suffer Georgy, and Bigby finally takes out the massive corruption that has plagued Fabletown for years. Faith finally decides to come out (in the most subtle way possible) that she was the one leading the investigation all along. And she is finally free of the people who imprisoned her.
One more thing; I don't think this makes Faith evil for glamouring herself as Nerissa. This is because of three reasons:
If she didn't care about Nerissa and her fate, she wouldn't had led the investigation and Bigby and Snow to finding out about the corruptness of Fabletown's underground.
She did the only thing she could do if no one but her and possibly Lilly knew about Nerrisa glamouring herself to look like her. And if Nerissa died as Faith, she couldn't deactivate the glamour, because then the real Nerissa and the real Faith would die (totaling 3 girls dead instead of two), and revealing Nerissa as the real victim would have side tracked the investigation to finding where the real Faith is, which would have alerted Crooked Man by the means of Crane, since he was heading the investigations at the time in Fabletown.
How would you feel if your best friend was murdered looking like you? You would want revenge for yourself and them. Not to mention, EXTREME GUILT; especially when Nerissa, Lilly, and Faith originally thought the whole thing wouldn't be taken as far as murder if they tried to leave a strip club.
But yeah guys, that is my long, LONG, explanation on what I think happened through the whole game that came to the ending's revelation of Faith being Nerissa and Bigby never have met the real Nerissa.
If I have missed something or left something out that I might have overlooked, or if you need me to clarify something just reply to the post.
It's not. If Faith was glamoured, then she don't need to tell about all this. She told the story as it was and then a little hint for Bigby to realize.
If it was real Nerissa, then it makes no sense not to admit. She's already said that it was her attracting Bigby to the case, she could add that she even tried to be Faith. But nope.
I agree with everything you wrote here, if you look up about what I wrote here you'll see that it matches in some points with yours theory.
Still there's one thing I don't agree with, actually you contradicted yourself at one point and I agree with your first theory, but not the second. You first said that the situation with Nerissa getting killed happened between Faiths fight with Woodsman and her leaving Nerissas glamoured head at Bigby's doorstep (and I completely agree with this, I think it happened right after she got back from Woody's and as soon as Nerissa got killed she decided to bring her head to Bigby, you'll remember that she knows where he lives), but then you said that she staged fight with Woodsman to see if Bigby can help her out with her friends murder, which if what you first said was true, haven't happened yet.
Theory with Nerissa is very good, but like was mentioned before (I'm glad that I found here the same thoughts), why Nerissa didn't tell that she was Faith in the beginning, and it was the start of her plan to attract Bigby? She told everything, she could mentioned that fact easily.
And if it is Faith, then she have reasons not to mention this - seems that she wants to disappear, slip away. She can give a little hint, but only for Bigby. There's no evidence after all.
And the other thing - Mirror. I think there is something in his words about Faith. He could show the dead body, because magic should disappear after taking the ribbon, but there was a mystery. It is a big hint that she is alive.
I just joined this conversation to ask one question why was Nerrisa saying a bunch similar things faith said that night was she trying to get caught or was she trying to tell bigby something
Satisfied with the episode. My game score is subjective (as well as my scoring system, heh), I think it's the best game so far (yes, under impression), but critics rated even higher. I'm not saying how masterful Telltale's work is, this is obvious, but measuring by their standarts (as I see them), the first point of ten (ideal) I would substract because of lack epicness almost anywhere except battles. The ending, which I didn't immediately relize, fixes it fully. Nonetheless, during the unique first playthrough experience I didn't know about this compensation. Another minus point for the scene where Crooked Man directs his gun at Bigby - it is clear that he is lawful evil, yet not that lawful. IRL to happen what happened, both (smart) men would have to go gaga at the same time. However, after ending I understand the reasons for which Telltale "tolerated" this, and still at that moment I felt facepalm. Mentioning the secondary characters - even though nothing is happening with them, they developed and revealed greatly (not per game but per episode). That's it, a little spoil in general terms, but I tried. However, need to think to spoil the ending, it's done really professional. No one expected it. And you know what, for showing that the world has never been divided into black and white, I rate 10/10.
I'm not sure if anyone has posted this but I wanted to point out that when Bigby find's Faith's head he estimates that it had been done within an hour or so.
If TTG explained the ending, there wouldn't be a season 2 or DLC
She was killed by the ribbon being pulled off. The spell wouldn't be active still.
Just wondering-according to the legend, doesn't Faith need the donkey coat to be able to change? We don't see it after Toad's apartment, do we? So, wouldn't Faith need the coat, in order for the whole fable within the fable to make sense? Sure, it could be a glamour, but that just seems cheap...
The ending is a classic noir staple, just like Edward James Olmos at the end of Blade Runner "too bad she won't live, but who does?" etc. and it makes a very strong case that Narissa is Faith, but, it's a little clunky in execution. I'm pretty sure there'll be a sequel considering the reviews and the sales. Perhaps things will be cleared up then.
Well great game. Just sad the Fables graphic novel series is coming to a close T_T why does this happen to Vertigo stuff?? whys???
The coat is not a regular glamour, it saysit hides her true beauty so by wearing it she probably appears as someone whi isnt particulary beautiful, if it was all faith she probably uses a glamour tube.
I am 100% sure that the woman in the end was Faith. Because Faith is kinda more brave than Nerissa.
To tell you the truth, though I have been enjoying the Fables comics immensely and will surely miss them very much I am also glad that they are coming to an end, I'd rather have it finish on a strong note than drag for years until it remains but a shadow of it's former quality. There has already been a noticeable drop in quality since the war with the adversary arc ended, for me they never regained the quality of first 60 or so issues, so I am presuming that if they didn't decide to end it, comic would drop in quality even more.
I am big fan of Vertigo graphic novels and I think that closing their storylines is something that really works well for them, this isn't Marvel or any other superhero comics publisher which tell and retell the same stories for decades and make reboots every second one or so, they usually have one or two main themes that go through an entire run of the comic which they tend to explore and then bring to its end in a strong and satisfying manner. They often make full circle and it is the storytelling I personally like and respect the most.
I don't know if it was brought up before, but I wanted to mention something. This thread became another discussion about Faith/Nerissa, but I want to focus your attention on those pictures. If you look at them closely, you can notice something interresting. It is visible on some of the pictures, especially in the corners of them, that they were taken from behind a glass or a window or something alike. Photos of Faith and Bigby have similar thing in the top left corner and that thing looks like a fragment of a car door to me. All that makes me believe that the pictures were taken from a car. I think I don't need to mention who was present throughout the season in most of the places where the action took place and was mostly seen in the car - the Ginger guy. I think he took those photos. Sorry if it was obvious or something, but I just want to see what's your opinion on that and I didn't see anyone mentioning that.
I also think that because the mirror didn't show Faith after she was allegedly dead, and used the "my lips are sealed" excuse proves that she was still wearing the ribbon (which the corpse clearly was not). I also like to think that Faith was the less obvious and more important "Wolf Among Us" because she was the predator that no one saw. She was manipulating the entire thing and we don't really know what was truth and what wasn't. She clearly had no problem bending the truth to get what she wanted and there could have been more that she made up for all we know.
She secretly had everyone wrapped around her finger and could just have easily been a retaliating victim as a conniving predator out to get whatever she wanted at any cost.
Mirror can definitely show dead people, it showed skeleton of Faiths father, it is most probably due to the fact that Faith was alive and glamoured as Nerissa or maybe the ribbon she wore prevents it from seeing her.
I agree also throughout the episodes if you pay attention closely you can see the ginger guy in the background.
I think it was a lead-in to buy the comics, not a season 2 unfortunately. I wish Telltale would let us know for sure about that.
The ending confused me. All I know is that the person we knew as faith in the beginning is the same person at the end. Whether it's actually Faith or Nerissa, I can't figure out for sure. I'd like to think it's Faith glamored as Nerissa, but I just don't know.
1)the blood on the dead body of 'faith' had been stale for an hour, so the faith Bigby met be4 shouldn't be the same
2)faith had to go for lily's shift so the one who met Bigby IMO was the REAL faith
3)we find out that the spell was caused by the ribbon that faith was NOT wearing after death, so the mirror should have no problem locating faith specially since her body was in fabletown office/ someplace which won't use magic to hide her head while under examination by Dr.Swineheart, so it is kind of implied that faith wasn't wearing the ribbon and by extension, dead
4)george killed faith in private, so nerissa, faith and george are supposed witnesses of the murder, 2 of them are confirmed so nerissa/faith can again lie about the event and get away with it
5)although i think she needs the coat in the fable story told in the game, the reason bufkins dialogue came up was to imply the nature of how faith dealt with her problem be4 by hiding herself and leaving the place eventually, something she would have successfully done if she is alive
my theory: george came to kill faith and nerissa feeling guilty for rating out, glamoured herself as faith and by the time the real faith found out about this to save herself she glamoured as nerissa this whole time + we still can't confirm with evidence how the murder actually happened so anything is possible
I agree with most of this, except I think Faith is a bit more guilty than you.
My hypothesis is that the real Faith did try to blackmail her way out and the real Nerissa was scared enough to reveal her plan. After Faith found this out, she arranged for Nerissa to be glamoured as her and take the fall in her place. I'm thinking that Faith arranged for a swap with Nerissa the night the incident with the Woody happened, and didn't take Nerissa's form to intentionally draw Bigby to the scene. While this happened, the real Nerissa took the form of Faith to take care of her normal job, putting her in a position to be in Faith's form when she was to be executed. This was both to preserve her life, and take revenge for what she may have seen as betrayal from Nerissa.
The crooked man and his lot being out of power is a good thing, but what I see as Faith's manipulations paint her exempt her from being innocent in my eyes.
either nerissa was glamoured as faith at the start or faith as been glamoured as nerissa the whole time
It doesn't make sense anyway. She hid her beauty by posing as a beautiful woman?
Unless she was still alive, and her ribbon (faith) was never removed .... I think you are on to something here.
To confuse you? The truth is, I don't know why that one line is there, but it would be silly to let one line dissuade you from believing what otherwise makes complete sense. There would be no purpose at all in Faith pretending to be Nerissa or glamoring Nerissa's dead body to look like Faith. Just makes no sense.
It does, however, make complete sense that Nerissa would be cheesed off by the wanton murder of her two best friends and basically work around the enchantment on the ribbon to "call the cops", by meeting Bigby while glamored as Faith, getting him to care, and then presenting a mystery that Fabletown couldn't ignore. If she had simply dropped the body on the doorstep, they wouldn't have a clue where to begin looking, as nobody knew this obscure Fable. Nerissa also wouldn't want to be obviously involved, because she knows her head would just be next on the chopping block.
I don't know...I just think you're reaching for something that isn't there. This is the noir version of Occam's Razor. It's not an Agatha Christie ending where the two thousand red herrings basically mean any character could have done it.
Well, it's interesting to see, in the picture on the bottom right, that Faith and Nerissa were having a heated argument.
I wonder what it was all about.
I agree 100%. I've read through the series three times now, plus the Jack books and the Cinderella books, and I've been reading Fairest (which is pretty fantastic, actually), but the series has been going for a long time, and especially since they've now gone through three "is this the end of Fabletown?" storylines, it's about time for it to come to a close. But I don't think that issue 150 will necessarily be the last we see of the Fabletown gang. On a semi-related note, if you're not reading Unwritten, you ought to be.
Im pretty certain at this point the real Nerissa tells Faith that she went to Georgie, Faith is angry and they probably agree on a switch so if Georgie or Crooked Man retaliates she is the one to take the blame.
I firmly believe it was narissa as faith. In the convo narissa tells bigby she tried to warn lilly that night,but she wasn't at her usual appointment. That was narissa as faith,at the woodsman trying to warn lilly. And if u remember,the tweedles were trying to find something faith took from them,that had to be faiths head.
I am not, will check it out. Thanks for recommendation!
That doesn't make sense, they where definitely looking for the pictures with Crane, Tweedles appeared after you found the head and pretty much everyone already knew about the murder. Also doesn't make sense to look for Faiths head at her place or Woodsmans if they already know shes dead.
Sure it does. If u killed someone u get rid of the body. Same way they dumped lilkys in the lake. If someone takes it,youd want to get it back wouldnt u?
The way I see it, the very last picture that shows Faith pointing at Nerissa is proof that Nerissa is actually the one who told Georgie, so Faith covered for her after he killed her. Thus the story "Nerissa" told us at the end was true but switch the names.
And lilly had the pics. So when georgie killed her,he didnt bother to check the closet for the pics?
It wouldn't be added into the narrative if it wouldn't make any sense, you simply don't just put any line for the sake of it in the most important scene, and especially not in the moment of protagonists epiphany in the crime investigation genre. It is a most basic, schoolbook rule when writing a story.
And there would be purpose for it. There would be purpose for both possibilities, I am to tired and lazy to post again, so you'll forgive me for not giving detailed explanation of the theory right now, but you can find it in several threads on this forum. I've found that theory that it was Faith actually fits better and has less plot holes than the one where it was Nerissa.
So what, we should just ignore it? She hid herself again, that is the point.