Anyone else 'dislike' Snow White?

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  • edited July 2014

    My morals? I never said anything about my morals at all. I didn't say anything about my morals being higher than someone else's.

    FayeKane posted: »

    "Is it actually a bad thing for her to have high morals? " What makes YOUR morals "higher" than someone else's?

  • edited July 2014

    But you only think that character is an "asshole" because they're questioning you and telling you what to do.

    FayeKane posted: »

    "they don't like being questioned or told what to do." Belan, NOBODY likes being questioned and told what to do by an asshole, and it doesn't matter whether the asshole is male or female. The plumage don't enter into it.

  • edited July 2014

    I think there are several statements in the comics that would contradict that. It's arguable, though. But very unlikely, in my opinion. I'm not sure if you've read the comics, but if you really want to hash this out, I can quote some key passages from a few issues that would establish some boundaries.

    Flog61 posted: »

    The game takes place twenty years before the game, so he wouldn't have to be in love with her for it to fit in yet. And colin was just teasing him or guessing, that doesn't mean Bigby had actual feelings yet.

  • And that's fine to feel that way, but I would just expect some better justification than that she's nominally his boss (eventually), an explanation of why any of Bigby's actions that I mentioned reflected negatively on Fabletown (because some of her criticism is absolutely unavoidable no matter what choices the player makes), and either an admission or a denial that involving Crane at the very beginning (who was at the time Bigby's boss) did or did not in fact impede Bigby's investigation.

    I just haven't really seen much argument about why she was in fact correct to do anything that she did, merely justification that she had the right to do what she did.

    KCohere posted: »

    As much as you seem adamant that her way of doing things is wrong, I still don't agree that she is. We're just an impasse on that score.

  • Because if he just tosses him then he can get back up and attack again. Bigby has no reason to even have a desire to be merciful with people who are shooting at him.

    Belan posted: »

    How hard would it have been for him to toss him across the street like he did to Dee? Dum was totally at his mercy, there were a number of things Bigby could have done instead of intentionally killing him.

  • Shes a mega bitch, lol i never listened to her

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    Kennysucks posted: »

    Shes a mega bitch, lol i never listened to her but i did burn down auntie greenleafs tree, not cause Snow told me to, I just wanted too, and after everyone asked why the fuck i did that i blamed it on Snow xD

  • edited July 2014

    Did Dee ever pop back up again after Bigby smashed him into the car? I'm pretty sure he didn't. And to be honest, he would be really stupid to do otherwise. Yeah, they unloaded on Bigby pretty good, but he was completely mopping the floor with them at that point. They stood zero chance, and you could see the fear on their faces. It was pretty clear that Bigby had a massive advantage up until Blood Mary surprised him with a silver bullet while he wasn't paying attention.

    Because if he just tosses him then he can get back up and attack again. Bigby has no reason to even have a desire to be merciful with people who are shooting at him.

  • edited July 2014

    I'm not sure which fight you're talking about that Bigby smashes Dee into a car. What if one of them has enough strength left to point a gun at Snow White because Bigby was too hesitant to kill him when he had the opportunity? Is Bigby fast enough to keep them from shooting her? And did Bigby have any reason to believe that they wouldn't do so when they'd already threatened to shoot her at the beginning of Episode 3? Why take unnecessary risks? Bigby should have killed them at the beginning of Episode 3.

    Belan posted: »

    Did Dee ever pop back up again after Bigby smashed him into the car? I'm pretty sure he didn't. And to be honest, he would be really stupid

  • Please don't forget that it's heavily implied Snow was sexually abused by the dwarves, and now she's dealing with sexual harassment from her former boss all over again. That's traumatizing in and of itself but it's also probably bringing up a lot of really painful memories. She's a career woman trying to do her job, and like a lot of career women in real life, she's got to deal with this awful stuff on top of her regular duties.

    It's no excuse for her to overreact about Auntie Greenleaf's tree, that was ridiculous and I refused to go along with it, but otherwise I personally commend her for coping so well. I would've just broken down from the stress by that point.

    Snow isn't perfect, but she's trying her best. For a while I was a little skeptical of her behavior too, but when she gave Lily's pin to Holly, I realized that she does genuinely care about the people of Fabletown. But politics is weird, man. It's not as easy as "Screw the rules I'm Bigby Wolf" as much as you'd like it to be. The rules are there for a reason. Sometimes it's better for them to be broken, yeah, but politics are weird, man. And she's trying her best.

    Also, side note, but it's kind of ironic that you keep calling her a "bitch" when game-Bigby canonically hates it when people use that derogatory word (dunno about comics-Bigby, haven't read them).

  • Of course, when it comes out that Crane is embezzling money that he actually owes to Toad, and that Bigby has done some damage to Toad's building the hasn't been paid for, and that if Toad could fix his building he could rent it out and make money and be able to afford glamours, that makes it a little more understandable that Bigby could give Toad money that was confiscated from Crane so that Toad could afford glamours, and that that could be considered partial compensation for the other money that is owed to Toad.

    KCohere posted: »

    Toad didn't have his glamour and Bigby told Snow that if he didn't have it the next time he saw him, they were going to the farm no question

  • Or because they really don't know what they're talking about while doing so. Which is Snow White in most cases in telling Bigby how to run his investigation.

    Belan posted: »

    But you only think that character is an "asshole" because they're questioning you and telling you what to do.

  • Hate is a strong word, but damn she got on my nerves throughout the game. How many times does she remind you she's your boss? I get it Snow, your in charge...

  • In the game she wasn't doing that work, either. Her entire job was to keep people out of Crane's office.

    Crane WAS doing work, just not for the people that he didn't care about. He was doing work for Bluebeard, because the Fabletown government at that point was essentially owned by Bluebeard. And any other influential fable had Crane's ear.

    KCohere posted: »

    Thats not true. From the letters on Crane's desk, you saw that he literally did no work. Snow has been running Fabletown unofficially the whole time. Crane was the boss in name only.

  • Technically, that's what his mother is, if that's what you call a female wolf.

    skoothz posted: »

    Please don't forget that it's heavily implied Snow was sexually abused by the dwarves, and now she's dealing with sexual harassment from her

  • no matter what you do she is never happy. she had a go at him for fighting back when the tweedles were pumping him full of lead. she never even believed in him she was always reminding him to behave rationally the only person who actually believed in him was Nerissa/Faith. how he ended up marrying snow is beyond me. Nerissa/Faith helped him 10 times more than snow. the crooked man's right about 1 thing ichabod/snow can't tell the difference.

  • I liked Snow until all of a sudden she told me she was my boss once Crane fled.

    She was just an assistant, and all of her suggestions on where to go first was wrong.

  • i know her husband left her or something like that but sexually abused how did you come up with that?

    skoothz posted: »

    Please don't forget that it's heavily implied Snow was sexually abused by the dwarves, and now she's dealing with sexual harassment from her

  • Feeling you.

    I want it to say to her only: I get it Snow, your in charge, and i don't care, there's only MY way of handling things in this investigation!

    But... hate is too powerful word.

    Hate is a strong word, but damn she got on my nerves throughout the game. How many times does she remind you she's your boss? I get it Snow, your in charge...

  • I've been reading this for quite a while and both of you are right to some degree. What has to be mentioned is what is canon to the comics. Bigby takes his job seriously about keeping Fabletown safe, and especially Snow. In line with keeping Fabletown safe, Bigby would kill Dum because at that moment he would still be a threat to TJ and Snow.

    I'm not sure which fight you're talking about that Bigby smashes Dee into a car. What if one of them has enough strength left to point a gun

  • Comics Bigby really doesn't care, and Snow White isn't shy about using the word herself. She can give as good as she takes.

    skoothz posted: »

    Please don't forget that it's heavily implied Snow was sexually abused by the dwarves, and now she's dealing with sexual harassment from her

  • snow needs a major lesson in friendship

  • Real quick, speaking of Mass Effect, does anyone else think Snow and the Council are very much alike?

    Because they'd understand my motives. As Toad did. As I said, Crossing a few lines isn't bad. For example, The By the book behavior of the J

  • There's a few parts of the story that describe how The 7 dwarves take in "comfort girls" and basically abuse them until they die. They took Snow White and she lived with them for years before she ate the apple from her wicked stepmother that "killed" her. There is even a dwarf saying something like "The day is for work, the night is playtime and its my turn tonight." You pretty much get the drift.

    i know her husband left her or something like that but sexually abused how did you come up with that?

  • She was the boss. She just succeeded him. There was no one else.

    cappatown posted: »

    I liked Snow until all of a sudden she told me she was my boss once Crane fled. She was just an assistant, and all of her suggestions on where to go first was wrong.

  • Well, "Bitch' is what his mother is, a female wolf. I guess you can call Bigby... A SON OF A BITCH!

    skoothz posted: »

    Please don't forget that it's heavily implied Snow was sexually abused by the dwarves, and now she's dealing with sexual harassment from her

  • Bigby only doesn't mind it if it's Snow that says it. If someone calls Snow that he's all at it.

    Comics Bigby really doesn't care, and Snow White isn't shy about using the word herself. She can give as good as she takes.

  • She doesn't think like Bigby when it comes to direction, she's not a wolf. Snow has been doing Crane's and King Cole's jobs for centuries. You can't blame her for wanting order.

    cappatown posted: »

    I liked Snow until all of a sudden she told me she was my boss once Crane fled. She was just an assistant, and all of her suggestions on where to go first was wrong.

  • edited July 2014

    I'm talking about the fight in the alleyway. At one point during the fight, you need to throw Dee into either BM's car, or a sign that is up on the side of a building. At the point that you have the option of killing Dum or not, Dee isn't even in the picture. Like I said in my last post, he was probably smart enough to know that going back into the fight was a terrible idea, as Bigby was completely mopping the floor with them. Realistically he would be in really rough shape at that point as well.

    I understand where you're coming from in regards to making sure Snow and Crane stay safe. It's the same reason why I killed Dum in my playthrough. The more I think about it though, it was not necessary. Bigby had complete control of that fight, and it really wasn't even close. Instead of killing Dum outright, he should have given him the same treatment he gave Dee.

    Anyway, we might not be able to completely agree on this, but hopefully you can at least understand the legitimacy of the other side of the argument. I definitely understand where you're coming from, as I felt the same way at one point.

    I'm not sure which fight you're talking about that Bigby smashes Dee into a car. What if one of them has enough strength left to point a gun

  • edited July 2014

    You may be correct there Lukasz. Either way, Snow still has a legitimate reason to criticize what she deems as harsh action.

    LukaszB posted: »

    I've been reading this for quite a while and both of you are right to some degree. What has to be mentioned is what is canon to the comics.

  • They have some traits in common, But not entirely. The Council fails to recognize any major threat that'd put their authority in challenge. Snow eludes those threats by following the rules strictly.

    Mrbman9001 posted: »

    Real quick, speaking of Mass Effect, does anyone else think Snow and the Council are very much alike?

  • They make sense if you listen and analyze.

    Belan posted: »

    She was being sarcastic.. Your ideas of a fair society contradict each other, and don't make any sense.

  • I mean, I understand the legitimacy of the argument. And I agree that if Bigby could be completely certain that that pulling his punches with Dum would result in zero increased risk to himself or Snow, then it wouldn't be right to kill him. The situation seems a bit ridiculous, though. If Bigby could incapacitate Dum with one strike, he should have done so on the first hit. In fact, he should have killed him on the first swipe once he'd closed in. But whether you intend to kill him or spare him, the fight plays out the exact same way. That's just really not realistic. Bigby willing to kill should have killed Dum with one swipe to the throat instead of just punching and slamming him. A non-lethal Bigby would have to punch and slam a few times and leave himself exposed to Bloody Mary. As the fight played out, Bigby was exposed to Bloody Mary either way.

    As it stands in-game, though, I think there's at least some marginal risk of increased danger from not killing him (judging it within the moment without the benefit of hindsight), but I could be wrong. Split-second decision, I wouldn't hesitate to kill him and wouldn't regret it for a second.

    Even with the benefit of hindsight, that's a situation where Snow needs to back Bigby up when he's publicly accused of murder, not simply say that she'll handle it internally. That show of weakness was rather pathetic and could have cost Bigby, and her office, significant credibility.

    Belan posted: »

    I'm talking about the fight in the alleyway. At one point during the fight, you need to throw Dee into either BM's car, or a sign that is up

  • Harsh and at a whim, not just harsh.

    Belan posted: »

    You may be correct there Lukasz. Either way, Snow still has a legitimate reason to criticize what she deems as harsh action.

  • every time a very major female character doesn't agree with them

    Oh come on !
    I for one loved Snow but I'm sick and tired of the overused "you can't handle strong female characters" pseudo-counter-argument.
    Yes I can I hate Breaking Bad's Skyler and think she's a bitch without it having anything to do with sexism.

    Flog61 posted: »

    People seem to react this way every time a very major female character doesn't agree with them and act as their sympathetic servant. But

  • Like I said, never read the comics. Just observing game-Bigby, who gets very angry when the Woodsman says it about Faith specifically, and seems to have the option to beat up someone every time they use that word (Woodie, Gren, Georgie, Jersey).

    Comics Bigby really doesn't care, and Snow White isn't shy about using the word herself. She can give as good as she takes.

  • Yeah, it's a ridiculous accusation. The problem in the game is that Snow is bossy and kind of dumb (though they didn't make Bigby very smart in the game, either, honestly), which just makes it worse. She's even more bossy in the comics, but is just pure awesome (most of the time).

    every time a very major female character doesn't agree with them Oh come on ! I for one loved Snow but I'm sick and tired of the ov

  • edited July 2014

    The risk was very minimal, as he was completely having his way with the Tweedles. Like I said before, Dee doesn't jump back into the fray after Bigby tosses him several feet through the air straight into a car. Doing the same to Dum would be a logical step to take instead of ripping his throat out when the fight between the two of them was essentially over. I mean, if you choose to spare the guy, he simply slumps to the ground in fear and defeat. It would be one thing for Bigby to kill them if he was actually struggling with them, but they were basically a walk in the park for him. He didn't need to kill them in order to beat them. Wasn't it kind of obvious that Bigby massively had the upper hand in that fight (after going into his half wolf form)?

    I agree that Snow should have done better backing Bigby up against the CM's murder accusations. It kind of seemed like she didn't really even want to talk about it.

    I mean, I understand the legitimacy of the argument. And I agree that if Bigby could be completely certain that that pulling his punches wit

  • Bigby won against Beat pretty much. I already said North Wind.

    If Bigby is mad, and actually wanted to kill everyone, i think 9/10 he'll win. But Bigby never will.

    He can blow all of those people you listed (Minus North and Beast) with his Huff and Puff.

  • He should've turned full wolf there. But for plot convenience, nope.

    Belan posted: »

    Snow can't fend for herself. Imagine if Bigby wasn't there at the end of 103. She'd be dead. Ironic. If Snow wouldn't have been there at the end of 103, Bigby would be dead.

  • Are you serious. Fuck. You. You don't know me. My opinions on a game makes me a bad person?

    Ah, you're banned anyway. Why bother.

    FayeKane posted: »

    Belan, people like WalkingDeadFan1911 lack the ability to see beyond what's right in front of them. Instead of compassionately helping other

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