Fable Invulnerability
So, we know by the story, that Bigby can take all sorts of punishment but that he just keeps coming. The only thing that seems very dangerous for him (even though Dum seems to have a magic fist and cars seem to knock Bigby unconscious too) is shattered silver bullets near his heart. On that note, two characters in the game take the Woodsman's axe "to the brain" and are perfectly fine afterwards. It is mentioned several times that Fables aren't easy to kill.
Why then, is Prince Lawrence so susceptible to bullets? Lots of characters get shot and seem perfectly fine afterwards. In some cases, with Bigby for instance, he often keeps fighting as if nothing happened when he's shot from a shotgun, which is more than one piercing. By that same token, why does it only take one stab of a knife to kill Georgie?
These seem to contradict the earlier "good thing it takes a lot to kill a Fable" dialogue. Is it just an oversight by the creators? Something they needed to do to make the story work, like writers often misuse Kryptonite to deactivate Superman even though it doesn't really work that way? I don't think there's an answer in the game, but I do think it's a major McGuffin to the story that really can't be made to make sense.
I'm going with some Fables, like humans, have a greater endurance and strength than others and can therefore withstand more damage. But there's a big difference between "Fables are hard to kill" and "Certain ones take axes to the brain like a mosquito bite while others can't take a gunshot wound or a knife to the belly."
Comments
Well, Bigby is one badaas Wolf.
And there is that how popular Fable is among Mundy culture more hard kill that Fable is.
But then so is Woody, Jersey, Grendel and Lily because they all took lethal blows to vital areas of their body. In fact, no one could survive even having their arm torn off like Gren did! You'd die of shock, blood loss and sheer trauma before anyone could get to you.
There is a theory in the Fables universe that a Fables' resilience is tied to his or her popularity (even within the universe, this is only a theory). I wouldn't say that Prince Lawrence is "so susceptible" to bullets. If you go to his place first in episode 1, you find out that he had tried to commit suicide by swallowing pills, slitting his wrists, and shooting himself nearly a week ago, and that he had just been sitting there drifting in and out of consciousness. If you go to his place second, you see that he shot himself in the head. Fables can survive a lot of stuff, but the more trauma they take, the harder it is for them to recover. A shot to the head for an unpopular Fable from an unpopular fairy tale, and yeah, I can see how it makes sense that he would die from that (if we go with the popularity theory). The Woodsman was at least from a very popular story. Even if he isn't remembered by name, his character is well-known.
Georgie's death is pretty gruesome too. He didn't just get stabbed in the stomach. His guts were falling out.
Bigby is especially resilient, even for a Fable, because he's not just some human. He is the Big Bad Wolf. All Fables are near immortals in the mundane world, but a Fable with a magical or especially tough nature is even harder to kill than the others. I would say that also covers a character like The Jersey Devil.
To be fair, Prince Lawrence didn't die by the bullet until nearly 1 week.
He dies immediately if you go to his place first and then wait in the closet until he shoots himself in the head.
Beheading is something that pretty much none of them could survive (though, there are exceptions). Bigby is basically a demigod, he is one of the most powerful Fables that there is. Gren, again, is in Dr. Swineheart's words "a titan." He is a legendary monster and he is much stronger and tougher than a human Fable would be. Jersey is also a legendary monster.
Yeah but by that time he had already been wounded for 1 week. I'm not surprised another bullet would finish him off.
Also, Bigby's father was a god, I believe. The embodiment of the north wind. He should be nearly invulnerable. He can be hurt but he recovers, except for a few things that can take him out for good. Like Violet said, the stronger your story is and how well known it is, thats how powerful you are and how hard you are to kill. Georgie Porgie is four lines in a nursery rhyme that most people wouldnt remember so it took his guts beings yanked out by Bigby to kill him for good. Theres a little bit more in the comics about what happens to Fables after they die but Ill leave that for you to read, lol.
If you go to Lawrence's place first and wait in the closet Lawrence shoots himself in the head and he dies immediately. You're correct that if you go after he's shot himself he's still alive, but the headshot still kills him. Woody and the Devil take axes to the brain and the axe is so deep that people have to pry it out. No, not people, super-strong Fables have to pry the axe out of their heads and they have difficulty! I get the BBB is supposed to be super-naturally strong and resilient. I also understand the popularity theory, if that's what they're using. Still, 20+ shotgun shell expenditures at Bigby and he doesn't even turn into his full wolfed out form to save himself. Axes to the brain and those guys too were fine. I might even argue that Georgie Porgie is more popular than the Wolf, as almost every child knows the rhyme. He probably isn't, since "the Wolf" could be a crossover into other stories as well, but Red Riding Hood, as a story, isn't nearly as popular as Snow White or The Little Mermaid, thanks to Disney. But do you get the impression Snow could take an axe to her brain or even one blast of a shotgun?
Thanks K. I am reading the comics now that I've played the game. Read the first story-arc, it was 5 issues, so far.
Well, she has and recovered and it still took her years to stop walking without a cane. Bigby is supposed to be the big bad wolf in every wolf tale. He is much more significant than Georgie Porgie pudding pie. And dont forget the power of his parentage, his father being basically a super power.
Again, Bigby has more than just popularity going for him. He is the son of a god. I would say that his actual nature may even more important than his popularity when it comes to his survival.
Prince Lawrence? No one remembers him. The sleeping pills, slit wrists, and gunshot to the lung weren't as serious as a shot to the head.
Georgie is popular, but, again, his entrails are pretty much on the ground by the end of that scene (if you choose to kill him).
As for Woody. Who doesn't know the story of Little Red Riding Hood?
And Jersey is supernatural in his own right, so his quick recovery doesn't seem out of place.
Yeah, definitely read the comics. It all makes a little more sense.
Im not really familiar with the Jersey Devil. What is his story?
This page tells one of his origin stories very well:
http://weirdnj.com/stories/jersey-devil/
Basically, he was said to be the 13th child of a family. His mother was upset about being pregnant again and exclaimed "Let this one be a devil!" When the baby was born (on a dark and stormy night, naturally), it appeared normal at first. Then it sprouted a pair of leathery wings, took on a demonic appearance and attacked everyone in the room, killing its own mother, the midwife, and other members of the family before flying out into the night to terrorize the citizens of the town. It went on to haunt the woods in the area.
Yikes! Thanks violet. So he's a terrifying urban legend on the Bloody Mary style. That explains why he is powerful in the Fables universe if the story is still being passed on today.
Only thing that surprised me was Jersey being knocked out so quickly in EP5. In the previous episode, he took a shit-ton of beating before collapsing. Also, do you think that Dee's gonna survive the stab wound? I would reckon so, he survived being clawed and thrown around by Bigby in EP3, after all.
I found myself hoping that Dee wouldn't survive, although killing all these nursery rhyme and fairy tale characters seems wrong somehow. He was clawed in episode five, yes, but he wasn't stabbed with the magical knife that was more powerful than Bigby's claws!
No one remembers Lawrence because he's a made up red shirt character, as is Faith. That's why I got the impression they weren't going to kill any known "good guys" because they made up their own characters, like Lily, that they could dispose of in order to keep it seemingly serious. I never did try to get killed in the game by doing nothing, but I got the distinct impression that no matter what I did the ending of the game and of each altercation would still be the same. In The Walking Dead game you can certainly be killed if you don't succeed. I feel like this game was mostly for the watching and a safe affair.
Looking up "Donkeyskin" now, I see that it is an actual written Fairy Tale, by Charles Perrault. Sounds like some of the ideas presented in it actually inspired Cinderella. The name Faith, however, is never used in the tale, nor is Lawrence. And, as we all know, no one knows this story. This makes the characters in it much more safe for alteration and/or death. In the story though, both Donkeyskin and the Prince... even Donkeyskin's father, are shown to be lovely people and everyone lives happily ever after. None of the characters seem likely to purposely kill others or dupe others into being killed.
Now looking up Cinderella, it appears there are these types of ideas present as early as 865 AD. Some of those early tales are now called "The Egyptian Cinderella," after Cinderella became so popular. In the actual stories the name Cinderella isn't used and there often is no Fairy Godmother. So, while there are changes in popular culture these days, including the Cinderella story we all know, most of the ideas come from history long ago, other stories that were written and borrowed from to make what we all know today.
Well in my play through he has Dum and an unconscious Jersey to help him, so I'd guess he'll be fine.
is it better to read the comics before the game or after?
So if this is true. Shouldn't the most popular character we like in the game never die then? Perhaps we ourselves give power to the charactes based on feedback and who we like. /tinfoilhat
The popularity thing is still just a theory even in the comic books, It's never stated that it actually works but most Fables are on board with it. Hell Jack produced an epic trilogy film of his story So he could become "immortal"
Yeah if you don't do anything in combat...You definitely get a game over and die. Sure Bibgys more resilient than Clementine but so what it's a different universe where you play magical beings with different power sets. Some of them are bound to be tough
You're saying Georgie Porgie is more popular than the Big Bad Wolf...that's weird cause no
In the comics snow is shot in the head with a sniper rifle by Goldilocks and lives supposedly because she is so popular. More evidence for the popularity theory is that when Bigby tries to kill Goldilocks in the comics by being, in order, hit in the head with an axe, knocked off a cliff and then finally hit by a truck off another cliff into a river and still she lived and comes back in one of the spin-off series because she is an immensely popular fable.
No I just mean there were plenty of times where I missed several of the buttons and the fight didn't change. Like in the battle with Bloody Mary in episode 5. She hits me almost every time I'm up on that beam looking for her. I also mis-timed several of the attacks on the ground but still I win. Same thing happens in the alley with the Tweedles. So I feel like the game is either meant to just be watched through where you hit a few conversation choices but the battles end the same regardless of what you do or even though I miss three or four in several of the fights it makes no difference in the outcome and I need to miss all or something. I'm not questioning whether the BBB should be more resilient than a little girl, but rather that in TWD you die if you miss one button whereas in TWAU I've missed 4 to 5 and nothing's changed.
It doesn't really matter.
But you definitively should read those comics
If you'd read the post you'd see that I say he probably isn't but that it could be argued since everyone knows his rhyme, which is two lines short, he's more popular. But it depends on what you mean. I also say BBB could be the scary wolf in many stories. Mainly I just think he and Lawrence die the same way a normal person might, without taking any extra damage, which seemed to be a contradiction to the "Fables are hard to kill" dialogue.
I have since been informed that the comics tell a story of popularity making Fables more powerful. That isn't explored in the game so unless one had read the comics he wouldn't know that. I've just started to read them now. The first 5 issue story-arc, and the popularity theory hasn't been introduced yet. In the comment below Jimjam says all that stuff about Snow. So if that can happen to Goldy or Snow and they end up just fine, why in the world would Bigby, or anyone else ever worry that ANYTHING was TOO dangerous for Snow to be involved in? Since the game doesn't 'explain the popularity theory, it really doesn't contradict it with Georgie and Lawrence, but if that's the argument we're going with, then it's still a contradiction. "Fables are hard to kill," or don't die easy is what is said in the game's dialogue. A human would die the same way Georgie does if he were stabbed in the belly. In that case there's no difference. With Lawrence, I'd argue that a human could survive a gun-shot wound that missed the heart and went out the other side. Stranger things have definitely happened in life. More importantly though, when he shoots himself in the head (also survivable if the bullet enters a certain way) he DOES die, just like a human would.
There's a contradiction somewhere. It's either that "Fables are hard to kill," unless they're not popular, or "Fables can die the same way as mundies so long as you do it right." But there is a difference. Also, if the popularity theory is in effect, then Georgie is certainly leaps and bounds more popular than Lawrence but one wound kills Georgie while a gunshot to the chest, overdosing of pills and having his wrists slit weren't enough to kill Lawrence.
I don't mind, I'm just saying it's a bit inconsistent is all. They could have easily added a line of dialogue explaining the popularity theory or why Georgie was so easy to kill while Lawrence and others weren't but they didn't. And that's ok it just stuck out to me is all.
See comment above in answer to your comment. Yeah I've just started reading the comics now. The game got me wanting more. So I'll look forward to how that storyline plays out now that I know it's coming. I must say that the Snow presented in the game could never be the one in the game based on how rude and standoffish she is to Bigby in the books. In the game they are clearly flirting with love interest, and I realize they could still grow closer in the books as I'm only 5 in, but in the book she's disgusted by the thought of Bigby even asking her to the Remembrance Day Celebration and orders him never to even think such a thing again.
Speaking of Jack... in the game the Jack character is Jack Horner, you know, the one who sat in a corner eating Christmas pie and pulled out a plumb. Bigby then barbs him about climbing beanstalks and losing the rest of his magic beans. Jack of the Beanstalk, as far as I knew, was a separate entity from Jack Horner. When I read the first 5 issues of the books, Jack was clearly the Jack from the game. They look exactly alike. But in the comic they haven't called him Horner yet but he's the one from the beanstalk story. Is it well known that Jack is in both stories in the comics? If that's the case, then heck, he may as well go fetch a pail of water or leap a candle flame while he's at it. Further, if that IS the case, Jack should be super-powerful and not be afraid of anything, which certainly doesn't seem to be the case in the game, because he's in every other nursery rhyme there is!
Jack is called Jack Horner in the books. He's the Jack of every tale including Jack Frost, so he is pretty powerful. In his spinoff he gets torn up a lot and survives a lot.
So another contradiction because he's weak and jittery and nervous and afraid of everything in the game, and if he's Jack Frost, he should be more powerful than almost anyone. Jack Frost has the entire power of Winter behind him. Bigby can put out some strong wind, but not the entire power of winter. Jack is afraid of Bigby, and in the books he's afraid of Rose and... everyone else. Wow what a horrible character to do a spin-off from. I'd rather see a deepening of Bigby's tale. I'm told he's barely in the books after a while. Jack was a sniveling weasel in the game and in the first 5 books I read.
He's not physically powerful, he just can't be easily killed. Jack is a scoundrel in the comics. The game is not far off. Read a little farther, especially his spin off series, and you'll understand. He's essentially a comedic character because he's so off the wall, bit IMO that's what makes his issues fun to read.
You really have to get farther in the books. He's not weak or jittery. He backs down from confrontations with Bigby because he knows he could never take him on. (Bigby has already wiped the floor with him at least once.) I don't remember him being afraid of Rose in the books...? They were dating.
Jack is sly, conniving, egotistical, weasely, and he talks a big game (that is, he flat out lies). He can fight when he has to, but he fights dirty and he'd rather worm his way out of confrontations than actually get into a physical altercation. The Jack Frost thing was temporary and it's explained very well in the books. It's not like his basic nature is the Lord of Winter or anything. Jack is pretty much your average trickster character from folklore. That's why he's portrayed as a character who's both a weasel and a survivor. He can wiggle his way out of anything. He's kind of like a cockroach.
Bigby is in the books pretty consistently, it's just that they don't focus entirely on him. They're about everyone. The Jack spin off was interesting for a little while, but then it lost me. It does give you a better understanding of his character, though. And there are some good stories in it, like the Jack Frost tale, and a great story about him and Bigby.
Jack Frost is different with other Jacks, he is a good boy
Donkeyskin contains some elements of Cinderella, but it belongs to a different classification of folk tales. "Cinderella" was the name that Perrault gave his version of the story. But it's very old. Just like Donkeyskin.
The interesting thing about the Fables universe is that it's sort of deconstructionist fairy tales. So, it doesn't really matter that Donkeyskin and the Prince seem sweet and likeable (though, I remember the Prince in Donkeyskin being rather morose and whiny when he was pining for the girl and I had to laugh a little when they painted Prince Lawrence as morose). They are taking them away from the fairy tale element and putting them into the new world, and showing how their characters may adapt.
Anyway, I guess that's OT, though. The point is, a lot of people didn't read that story when they were kids (I did, but I was always obsessed with folklore) so that explains Lawrence's lack of popularity.
Few fables die except through powerful magic. However, they do put modern technology to good use in the struggle against the forces of the Adversary.
As for Bigby, as others have said, he's basically a god. And Snow White is a wellspring of enormous untrained sorcerous energies.
As for some of the others who survive horrendous energies from time to time, there's no real explanation other than the in-universe popular=power theory that they don't all subscribe to. The head of the 13th floor witches, for instance, doesn't buy into that theory.
There's also an in-universe Master Storyteller theory -- that their power levels are all dependent on a god-like Master Storyteller who determines the fates of all of their lives. Of course, this could just be an in-universe theory that everyone in the universe is precisely as powerful as Bill Willingham wants them to be for whatever story he wants to tell.
Pretty sure he's also the Jack of "Jack and Jill" fame, and the original Jack of the Lantern. Probably some others.
Snow White is actually an amalgamation of two different characters named "Snow White" also.