1 - the context in which it is used today ''diversity'' is bad because it advocates different cultures and groups mingling not because they want to but because an ideology says they should, without regard to whether or not they're compatible.
2 - The things I mentioned have happened.
Sorry, I must've overlooked that part. No I do not, but I'm also not blind to the fact that people tend to stick to their own for various reasons and I do not believe in forcing two groups that have animosity between them to start getting along. Because once you do that all you have is buried hatred just waiting to rise to the surface.
4 - David Gaider seemed to have made it an important point that Dorian is the very first exclusively gay character in one of BioWare's games, and given the previously named element in DAII, not to mention that they changed their banner to having a rainbow flag sometime in May/June - that indicates that they're supportive on LGBT issues not because they think it right, but because it's a way to make more money - hence they're a bunch of sleaseballs with an agenda that uses ''diversity'' in the wrong way. Also they're under EA management, and EA only cares about money as has been proven time and again by them ripping off customers and giving half-complete products.
I'm sorry, do you need all the BioWare forums be like those for my point to be valid? Also, there's this little incident when they unveiled Cassandra would be straight (Lord have mercy) :
These are the people they have as fans, hence they're mostly trying to pander to them since two companions are straight.
I'm ''forced'' to play as a little girl in TWD S2, and I was ''forced'' to play as a black guy in TWD S1. That somehow didn't make me have a problem with the game, despite me being a white man.
5 - Whereas I was using it to illustrate a point, not to make the entire argument.
But making the majority of them bisexual is unrealistic. And don't give me the argument ''it takes place in a fantasy world''. They're obviously trying to tell a somewhat serious story in a somewhat serious context that has parallels running with our world. So unless there was some bit of lore in the codex that states that the majority is indeed bisexual, that's just pandering for the sake of seeming progressive.
I forgot, Aveline wasn't a romance option either.
What I want is them not to make a thing out of them being gay. Like Matthew and Walter. If it was BioWare making the episode, they would've stated in interviews they were going to show the very first gay couple in TWD. Whereas Telltale just did it. Nice, tasteful and well-executed. Not to mention their story did have the fact that they were gay in it, without it being the focal point - and without it being the focal point of the marketing either.
Seriously, I thought his romances were cut because of hardware limitations.
1- 'tI still don't understand your overall point about that matter. Diversity isn't intrinsically bad, but is presented as bad by the right … morewing, therefore...?
2- Oh, sure it can happen. Most things can happen. Doesn't mean that any inter-racial interaction is terrible, nor that races fighting each other are certain.
And since you ignored the second half of my point, I'll ask again: do you support the ideals of Apartheid?
4- NO, they did NOT make a huge specific announcement about it. They mentioned it in an off hand way, just as they have done with saying Josephine is attracted to women.
They also didn't mention Sera is a lesbian in any public interview, they just answered fan questions. Surely if they were hungry for diversity points they would have made a large announcement to everyone about it?
Showing me some pictures of some bioware fans does not mean Bioware is specifically pandering to them. Plenty of the fans stand up … [view original content]
No, "feminism" means a lot of different things to different people. So does "equal." I don't know how hard that is to understand.
Pat you… morerself on the back for coming from a progressive family. Please continue hating the overwhelming majority of Americans who didn't always see things your way.
I would buy the comics, but the thing is the creator of them is an extremist right wing dick.
Why should we want to support the creator if he's an asshole?
http://thegeekwhisperer.com/2009/01/11/comics-politics-screw-you-bill-willingham/
Ah, yes, let's use a publicly edited website as a source, failing to realize that what "feminism" means depends on who is using the word. And a "No true Scotsman" fallacy along with it. Bravo.
No, "feminism" means a lot of different things to different people. So does "equal." I don't know how hard that is to understand.
Pat you… morerself on the back for coming from a progressive family. Please continue hating the overwhelming majority of Americans who didn't always see things your way.
Because I don't really know the point of your post. If someone wants to argue that someone is an extremist asshole because of an undated mostly innocuous quote about gay marriage and feminism, I'd expect a little better evidence if this guy is trying to convince us that we shouldn't support Willingham's career.
Flog is welcome to his viewpoints, but I'm not going to refrain from challenging them if he's going to try to convince us that we should share them.
I would buy the comics, but the thing is the creator of them is an extremist right wing dick.
Why should we want to support the creator if he's an asshole?
http://thegeekwhisperer.com/2009/01/11/comics-politics-screw-you-bill-willingham/
I'm simply talking about you saying: "Pat yourself on the back for coming from a progressive family. Please continue hating the overwhelming majority of Americans who didn't always see things your way."
I don't agree with him in the fact that we shouldn't support Willingham's career, but the guy does have a reason to have fault with his viewpoints.
Because I don't really know the point of your post. If someone wants to argue that someone is an extremist asshole because of an undated mos… moretly innocuous quote about gay marriage and feminism, I'd expect a little better evidence if this guy is trying to convince us that we shouldn't support Willingham's career.
Flog is welcome to his viewpoints, but I'm not going to refrain from challenging them if he's going to try to convince us that we should share them.
We don't know exactly what Willingham's problem was with gay marriage. I'd expect to hear more about that before automatically calling him a bigot or an extremist asshole.
And note the "always" in my criticism. Point being, I don't know when that statement was made by Willingham. Public opinion has changed a lot over the last several years. Maybe Willingham's has, too.
Sure, I could argue with the proposition that anyone who currently opposes gay marriage is necessarily a bigot or an extremist asshole, but that's not quite the point when we have a vague undated quote.
I'm simply talking about you saying: "Pat yourself on the back for coming from a progressive family. Please continue hating the overwhelming… more majority of Americans who didn't always see things your way."
I don't agree with him in the fact that we shouldn't support Willingham's career, but the guy does have a reason to have fault with his viewpoints.
I actually love comics (or manga). I own about 23 volumes of Naruto and 1 volume of Soul Eater, still read each new chapter (or "issue") of Naruto every week. I'd love to purchase the fable comics, but ya know.. I don't really have the money to be buying comics right now.
No, it was suggested that you research Bill Willingham's views more thoroughly before claiming that the entire Fables series is a metaphor for the troubles of Israel. Because, well, you were wrong about that.
Just because it's complicated doesn't mean you can't disapprove of someone's view of it.
You don't know much about it and yet you're saying I should give doing research a try?
Why don't you research the conflict then!
There are a lot of really good, very mature comics. I recommend Saga. It's kind of a scifi love story with emphasis on family but with this outrageous cast of characters, and it's very mature but extremely clever and funny.
There's also Sandman, Scalped, Transmetropolitan, Preacher and Y: The Last Man that people can look into as well. Some might not be to everyone's tastes though, so I'd recommend researching things. (Y: The Last Man is by the same creator/writer as Saga.)
There are a lot of really good, very mature comics. I recommend Saga. It's kind of a scifi love story with emphasis on family but with this outrageous cast of characters, and it's very mature but extremely clever and funny.
1 - the context in which it is used today ''diversity'' is bad because it advocates different cultures and groups mingling not because they … morewant to but because an ideology says they should, without regard to whether or not they're compatible.
2 - The things I mentioned have happened.
Sorry, I must've overlooked that part. No I do not, but I'm also not blind to the fact that people tend to stick to their own for various reasons and I do not believe in forcing two groups that have animosity between them to start getting along. Because once you do that all you have is buried hatred just waiting to rise to the surface.
4 - David Gaider seemed to have made it an important point that Dorian is the very first exclusively gay character in one of BioWare's games, and given the previously named element in DAII, not to mention that they changed their banner to having a rainbow flag sometime in May/June - that indicates that they're supportive o… [view original content]
I ordered the first volume of Fables and I won't regret it after reading all the comments you posted. This Bill Willingham seems to be a great man (and I'm not american so I don't give a damn about their patriotism or the author's views on captain america or whatever etc). I hate the left wing and I have problems with Femen, French gay marriage, and socialist propaganda. I'm very happy to support this artist by buying his comics.
1- 'tI still don't understand your overall point about that matter. Diversity isn't intrinsically bad, but is presented as bad by the right … morewing, therefore...?
2- Oh, sure it can happen. Most things can happen. Doesn't mean that any inter-racial interaction is terrible, nor that races fighting each other are certain.
And since you ignored the second half of my point, I'll ask again: do you support the ideals of Apartheid?
4- NO, they did NOT make a huge specific announcement about it. They mentioned it in an off hand way, just as they have done with saying Josephine is attracted to women.
They also didn't mention Sera is a lesbian in any public interview, they just answered fan questions. Surely if they were hungry for diversity points they would have made a large announcement to everyone about it?
Showing me some pictures of some bioware fans does not mean Bioware is specifically pandering to them. Plenty of the fans stand up … [view original content]
I'm a democrat, but I respect all political views unless they involve race, religion, or sexual orientation. Regardless, who cares about what his views on politics are, the comics are f-In good and that's all that matters.
I would buy the comics, but the thing is the creator of them is an extremist right wing dick.
Why should we want to support the creator if he's an asshole?
http://thegeekwhisperer.com/2009/01/11/comics-politics-screw-you-bill-willingham/
I ordered the first volume of Fables and I won't regret it after reading all the comments you posted. This Bill Willingham seems to be a gre… moreat man (and I'm not american so I don't give a damn about their patriotism or the author's views on captain america or whatever etc). I hate the left wing and I have problems with Femen, French gay marriage, and socialist propaganda. I'm very happy to support this artist by buying his comics.
Wow Im surprised at how much this post went off the rails and into politics
Look a have no problem with Bill Willingham being a right wing guy as long as he doesn't turn into
another frank miller or orson scott card lol
Bill Willingham has so far kept a low profile and he isn't out there making the kind of insane or over the top comments that orson scott card has made and as long as that remains the case I have no issue with the guy
With all due respect Flog61, there is a term in literature called "Death of the author".
The moment a author publishes a work and hands it over to the audience, the work belongs to the audience. The autor's gender, political stance, believes, religons....doesn't matter. The work stands on it's own and should be judged on it's own.
I for one like Batman:Year One while I hate Frank Miller. I love the Witcher novels and the game despite the fact the author is a bit high of himself and thinks the games didnt do anything to bolster the popularity of the Witcher franchise.
If we look at several authors who made amazing books...they were huge racists, treated their families like shit but they wrote REALLY good books.Ender's Game comes to mind....
It's just a idea, I'm not saying your opnion is wrong but to not give the work a chance because you dont like the author is a bit short sighted.
Give the comics a chance, they are really good. Trust my word on this.
I would buy the comics, but the thing is the creator of them is an extremist right wing dick.
Why should we want to support the creator if he's an asshole?
http://thegeekwhisperer.com/2009/01/11/comics-politics-screw-you-bill-willingham/
The right wing is not exclusive to america by any means. It's a political idea that is expressed in some way, regardless of whether it is th… moree main power, in pretty much every country in the world.
But you're not telling us to support the comics, you're telling us to support the creator. Why on earth would we want to?
Fables is already coming to a definitive end in issue 150, so there's no point buying them in hopes he'll make more.
If people buy them, they should buy them because they enjoy them, not to give the creator more spending money as you suggest.
Anyways, thank you so much @MindWeb for sharing the link! I've been debating whether or not to buy the Fables comic after the 'Wolf Among Us' finale (which was amazing by the way; loved the plot twist at the very end), but this will help me make up my mind.
...What happened to this thread?
Anyways, thank you so much @MindWeb for sharing the link! I've been debating whether or not to buy the F… moreables comic after the 'Wolf Among Us' finale (which was amazing by the way; loved the plot twist at the very end), but this will help me make up my mind.
What the hell??
I thought a discussion about the comics was going on but no some right wing /left wing
political boring as ass shit instead
I bought the first 10 issues and read the first five they are awesome
I tried reading the comic, I honestly did. 10 or 12 issues of it. It wasn't very good. The art was dull and bland (ironic, considering the c… moreharacters are supposed to be from whimsical settings originally), and the writing was mediocre at best. Throughout it all I never once felt that the characters were characters (like in the game), but mere vessels to spout dialogue that Willingham ordained need be spoken at that point.
There's also Sandman, Scalped, Transmetropolitan, Preacher and Y: The Last Man that people can look into as well. Some might not be to ever… moreyone's tastes though, so I'd recommend researching things. (Y: The Last Man is by the same creator/writer as Saga.)
Bone might also be worth a look at.
I've never gotten the impression that he is a douchebag. He always seems nice in interviews and when interacting with the fans on forums and stuff. He's just conservative. He was raised in a military family. And some of his characters are also portrayed as conservative, some of his political ideologies carry over into the stories. I don't think it's that big a deal.
There are a lot of really good, very mature comics. I recommend Saga. It's kind of a scifi love story with emphasis on family but with this outrageous cast of characters, and it's very mature but extremely clever and funny.
I've only read one issue of Transmetropolitan so far and I haven't read any comics for ages, but you should be able grab a copy of it for $0.99 off Comixology if you don't want to chance it on the first volume. Of course, there's always having a look at a book store. Anyhow, I'd definitely recommend it from the little I read and the reviews are quite stellar. Only reason I didn't read more is because of money really.
When it comes to Sandman, I've read the first five issues and have issue 6 to read. Y: The Last Man I've read the first volume of. Again, only reason I didn't continue with them is because of money.
PS: Oh, as an aside, I think you should be able to pick up the first issue of Y: The Last Man and Saga for free from Comixology. I assume they were permanently free when I checked anyway.
I tried reading the comic, I honestly did. 10 or 12 issues of it. It wasn't very good. The art was dull and bland (ironic, considering the c… moreharacters are supposed to be from whimsical settings originally), and the writing was mediocre at best. Throughout it all I never once felt that the characters were characters (like in the game), but mere vessels to spout dialogue that Willingham ordained need be spoken at that point.
...What happened to this thread?
Anyways, thank you so much @MindWeb for sharing the link! I've been debating whether or not to buy the F… moreables comic after the 'Wolf Among Us' finale (which was amazing by the way; loved the plot twist at the very end), but this will help me make up my mind.
Comments
1 - the context in which it is used today ''diversity'' is bad because it advocates different cultures and groups mingling not because they want to but because an ideology says they should, without regard to whether or not they're compatible.
2 - The things I mentioned have happened.
Sorry, I must've overlooked that part. No I do not, but I'm also not blind to the fact that people tend to stick to their own for various reasons and I do not believe in forcing two groups that have animosity between them to start getting along. Because once you do that all you have is buried hatred just waiting to rise to the surface.
4 - David Gaider seemed to have made it an important point that Dorian is the very first exclusively gay character in one of BioWare's games, and given the previously named element in DAII, not to mention that they changed their banner to having a rainbow flag sometime in May/June - that indicates that they're supportive on LGBT issues not because they think it right, but because it's a way to make more money - hence they're a bunch of sleaseballs with an agenda that uses ''diversity'' in the wrong way. Also they're under EA management, and EA only cares about money as has been proven time and again by them ripping off customers and giving half-complete products.
I'm sorry, do you need all the BioWare forums be like those for my point to be valid? Also, there's this little incident when they unveiled Cassandra would be straight (Lord have mercy) :
These are the people they have as fans, hence they're mostly trying to pander to them since two companions are straight.
I'm ''forced'' to play as a little girl in TWD S2, and I was ''forced'' to play as a black guy in TWD S1. That somehow didn't make me have a problem with the game, despite me being a white man.
5 - Whereas I was using it to illustrate a point, not to make the entire argument.
But making the majority of them bisexual is unrealistic. And don't give me the argument ''it takes place in a fantasy world''. They're obviously trying to tell a somewhat serious story in a somewhat serious context that has parallels running with our world. So unless there was some bit of lore in the codex that states that the majority is indeed bisexual, that's just pandering for the sake of seeming progressive.
I forgot, Aveline wasn't a romance option either.
What I want is them not to make a thing out of them being gay. Like Matthew and Walter. If it was BioWare making the episode, they would've stated in interviews they were going to show the very first gay couple in TWD. Whereas Telltale just did it. Nice, tasteful and well-executed. Not to mention their story did have the fact that they were gay in it, without it being the focal point - and without it being the focal point of the marketing either.
Seriously, I thought his romances were cut because of hardware limitations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
First sentence.
Key word, 'equal'
Your talking about feminist extremism. That's not what feminism is.
I'm fairly left winged, but who cares? I'm not going to let politics ruin a great story.
Ah, yes, let's use a publicly edited website as a source, failing to realize that what "feminism" means depends on who is using the word. And a "No true Scotsman" fallacy along with it. Bravo.
He has a legitimate reason to not put up with bigotry.
Good for him.
Alright, so then what was the point behind the sarcasm? Obviously if you have no problem with his viewpoints you wouldn't be posting.
Because I don't really know the point of your post. If someone wants to argue that someone is an extremist asshole because of an undated mostly innocuous quote about gay marriage and feminism, I'd expect a little better evidence if this guy is trying to convince us that we shouldn't support Willingham's career.
Flog is welcome to his viewpoints, but I'm not going to refrain from challenging them if he's going to try to convince us that we should share them.
I don't know or care about his politics. I just want to enjoy the comics.
I'm simply talking about you saying: "Pat yourself on the back for coming from a progressive family. Please continue hating the overwhelming majority of Americans who didn't always see things your way."
I don't agree with him in the fact that we shouldn't support Willingham's career, but the guy does have a reason to have fault with his viewpoints.
We don't know exactly what Willingham's problem was with gay marriage. I'd expect to hear more about that before automatically calling him a bigot or an extremist asshole.
And note the "always" in my criticism. Point being, I don't know when that statement was made by Willingham. Public opinion has changed a lot over the last several years. Maybe Willingham's has, too.
Sure, I could argue with the proposition that anyone who currently opposes gay marriage is necessarily a bigot or an extremist asshole, but that's not quite the point when we have a vague undated quote.
I actually love comics (or manga). I own about 23 volumes of Naruto and 1 volume of Soul Eater, still read each new chapter (or "issue") of Naruto every week. I'd love to purchase the fable comics, but ya know.. I don't really have the money to be buying comics right now.
A comic book thread turns into a political bitch fest
On topic, I've never been a comic reader, but I'm gonna give it a try.
No, it was suggested that you research Bill Willingham's views more thoroughly before claiming that the entire Fables series is a metaphor for the troubles of Israel. Because, well, you were wrong about that.
There are a lot of really good, very mature comics. I recommend Saga. It's kind of a scifi love story with emphasis on family but with this outrageous cast of characters, and it's very mature but extremely clever and funny.
There's also Sandman, Scalped, Transmetropolitan, Preacher and Y: The Last Man that people can look into as well.
Some might not be to everyone's tastes though, so I'd recommend researching things. (Y: The Last Man is by the same creator/writer as Saga.)
Bone might also be worth a look at.
If you like dark, realistic action I heartily recommend The Punisher MAX by Garth Ennis.
What are you doing in Tumblr? site is cancer and full of brainless degenerates.
It's good to visit poisonous sites every so often so one builds up tolerance. But that image I just saved from a thread off of 4chan a week or so ago.
I ordered the first volume of Fables and I won't regret it after reading all the comments you posted. This Bill Willingham seems to be a great man (and I'm not american so I don't give a damn about their patriotism or the author's views on captain america or whatever etc). I hate the left wing and I have problems with Femen, French gay marriage, and socialist propaganda. I'm very happy to support this artist by buying his comics.
I'm a democrat, but I respect all political views unless they involve race, religion, or sexual orientation. Regardless, who cares about what his views on politics are, the comics are f-In good and that's all that matters.
You're a true 'Murrican at heart, boah.
Wow Im surprised at how much this post went off the rails and into politics
Look a have no problem with Bill Willingham being a right wing guy as long as he doesn't turn into
another frank miller or orson scott card lol
Bill Willingham has so far kept a low profile and he isn't out there making the kind of insane or over the top comments that orson scott card has made and as long as that remains the case I have no issue with the guy
With all due respect Flog61, there is a term in literature called "Death of the author".
The moment a author publishes a work and hands it over to the audience, the work belongs to the audience. The autor's gender, political stance, believes, religons....doesn't matter. The work stands on it's own and should be judged on it's own.
I for one like Batman:Year One while I hate Frank Miller. I love the Witcher novels and the game despite the fact the author is a bit high of himself and thinks the games didnt do anything to bolster the popularity of the Witcher franchise.
If we look at several authors who made amazing books...they were huge racists, treated their families like shit but they wrote REALLY good books.Ender's Game comes to mind....
It's just a idea, I'm not saying your opnion is wrong but to not give the work a chance because you dont like the author is a bit short sighted.
Give the comics a chance, they are really good. Trust my word on this.
Yeah ending fables is not good news for this universe
...What happened to this thread?
Anyways, thank you so much @MindWeb for sharing the link! I've been debating whether or not to buy the Fables comic after the 'Wolf Among Us' finale (which was amazing by the way; loved the plot twist at the very end), but this will help me make up my mind.
what's wrong with those people.... :-|
oh friend, I'm not American and I don't understand the American politics,all I know is that the comic so awesome, if you missed it that's a regret
What the hell??
I thought a discussion about the comics was going on but no some right wing /left wing
political boring as ass shit instead
I bought the first 10 issues and read the first five they are awesome
I couldnt disagree more but I guess its not your cup of tea.
Ive read Sandman, Preacher and Y. I enjoy Brian K. Vaughn's sense of humor.
I've never gotten the impression that he is a douchebag. He always seems nice in interviews and when interacting with the fans on forums and stuff. He's just conservative. He was raised in a military family. And some of his characters are also portrayed as conservative, some of his political ideologies carry over into the stories. I don't think it's that big a deal.
Saga is amazing! I also loved Y: The Last Man.
Thanks for the link! I really loved the entire first season of the game and have been on the fence about buying the comics.
I've only read one issue of Transmetropolitan so far and I haven't read any comics for ages, but you should be able grab a copy of it for $0.99 off Comixology if you don't want to chance it on the first volume. Of course, there's always having a look at a book store. Anyhow, I'd definitely recommend it from the little I read and the reviews are quite stellar. Only reason I didn't read more is because of money really.
When it comes to Sandman, I've read the first five issues and have issue 6 to read. Y: The Last Man I've read the first volume of. Again, only reason I didn't continue with them is because of money.
PS: Oh, as an aside, I think you should be able to pick up the first issue of Y: The Last Man and Saga for free from Comixology. I assume they were permanently free when I checked anyway.
This post is Skylar Approved.
ur like someone that doesn't wanna eat a banana because its yellow colored.
You convinced me. I really enjoyed the story so far (thanks to your link!) and I will definitely continue from where it left off
Are there any more links like this?I live in a country where they don`t sell them.And I hate ordering online.
No unless you use torrent, you can find the whole collection on the pirate bay.