-Sarah potential to be taught like Clem was by Lee was lost. Example: Episode 2: Teaching Sarah how to use a gun. She never uses a gun.
-The determinate friendship between Sarah and Clem seemed to mean nothing and instead focused on Jane. Nobody cared afterwards when Sarah died
-Luke was dumb for shouting at emotionally dependent Sarah (she has a sociological disorder). I mean he should know this stuff. "Snap out of it, Sarah, I don’t know what’s wrong with you!" Luke screams
-Characters are inconsistent. Luke has sex with Jane instead of protecting the group. Telltale's way of making choice between Kenny and Luke harder instead of staying in character.
-Luke is saddened more at the disappearance of Jane then his best friend death
-Jane similarity to Molly is lazy. She got more development then other characters despite being somewhat of a rehash.
-Nick's death and role after Episode 2 was handled poorly despite being set up as an important character.
-Cabin group suddenly trusts Clem in Episode 2. Example: Blackmailing Rebbecca becomes irrelevant, forgotten. Carlos trust Clem with Sarah.
-Brother-sister relationship between Luke and Clem disappears. Chance to talk missed (could be about Nick, Sarah, Kenny, the baby, life)
-Nick depression over Pete is gone suddenly, not addressed. Becomes Luke's cheerleader.
-Sarita killed off as more drama for Kenny.
-Missed chance to talk about Christa's baby. Clem possible knows about birthing process, doesn't acknowledge it.
-Clem's important speech to Sarah results in nothing important
-Telltale makes Luke and Kenny d-bags instead of likeable sympathetic characters with different view points and idea's
MAIN POINTS
-Sarah potential to be taught like Clem was by Lee was lost. Example: Episode 2: Teaching Sarah how to use a gun. She never u… moreses a gun.
-The determinate friendship between Sarah and Clem seemed to mean nothing and instead focused on Jane. Nobody cared afterwards when Sarah died
-Luke was dumb for shouting at emotionally dependent Sarah (she has a sociological disorder). I mean he should know this stuff. "Snap out of it, Sarah, I don’t know what’s wrong with you!" Luke screams
-Characters are inconsistent. Luke has sex with Jane instead of protecting the group. Telltale's way of making choice between Kenny and Luke harder instead of staying in character.
-Luke is saddened more at the disappearance of Jane then his best friend death
-Jane similarity to Molly is lazy. She got more development then other characters despite being somewhat of a rehash.
-Nick's death and role after Episode 2 was handled poorly despit… [view original content]
Thank you! You basically just summed up all of my issues with the characterizations of every single character this season, and pretty much all my issues with what happened in episode 4. I really hope Telltale reads this.
Agree 100% with OP.
The episode threw any build up in the past 3 episodes out the window and then some. And jfc, I kinda DON'T want Christa to come back because i'm scared what the current writers will do to her if she did.
So much Fridging, so much character potential wasted.
I was betting my hopes and money for Christa's reveal on her pregnancy when Rebecca was being born and Clem had to take care of it but that didn't happen.
Sarah's death was so disrespectful. ** a gun couldn't have fallen off the balcony atleast??? Give her a fighting chance even if t ultimately fails?? her character had so much potential**
As was Nick's death.
And Jane's character just makes me mad. Two characters were fridged for her for what? her to just LEAVE? I hope she comes back in Episode 5 just so we can kill her/cause her some misery. Cuz there has to be MORE to her than just a cheap Molly 2.0. Why'd it have to be, weh little sister. Why couldn't she be maybe a young mother who maybe tried to survive with her young child? Then maybe her fear for rebecca and her connection could be valid? that an irresponsible mother guilt is how she quickly turned to cold and loner for the loss of others?
Idk, they could have done so much more with her if she was gonna steal so much of our existing cast's potential and not a carbon copy.
I enjoy walking dead. This episode was thrilling but so many flaws. However, the careless fridging is really making me lose faith in the writers. And all that potential was just wasted so fast it hurts.
here's hoping HOPING episode 5 will be better because Episode 1 and 2 writer (where decent character writing and development) will be back. but my hope is real slim. This episode was atleast better than Episode 3 though. Episode 3 was a rushed WRECK that could have had SO much great potential and development but was filled with just quick fix thrills.
Agreed.
& this is what I'm talking about. There are so many fans who with hardly any effort come up with tons of ideas that are not only better than Telltale's, but would take minimal or the same amount of effort.
Jane's character was completely wasteful. Not only on how she was basically a rehash of Molly with only a few noticeable differences, but in HOW they went about with it. They spend the majority of her development talking about her dead sister & there was an interesting question that was almost addressed, that you can't force someone to live, that it might actually be cruel to force someone to keep going when they're not cut out for it. And they just start to draw the parallel between her sister and Sarah, but it is not followed through or taken any further. Sarah dies from a complete accident and it's never discussed again. A complete waste.
Agree 100% with OP.
The episode threw any build up in the past 3 episodes out the window and then some. And jfc, I kinda DON'T want Christa… more to come back because i'm scared what the current writers will do to her if she did.
So much Fridging, so much character potential wasted.
I was betting my hopes and money for Christa's reveal on her pregnancy when Rebecca was being born and Clem had to take care of it but that didn't happen.
Sarah's death was so disrespectful. ** a gun couldn't have fallen off the balcony atleast??? Give her a fighting chance even if t ultimately fails?? her character had so much potential**
As was Nick's death.
And Jane's character just makes me mad. Two characters were fridged for her for what? her to just LEAVE? I hope she comes back in Episode 5 just so we can kill her/cause her some misery. Cuz there has to be MORE to her than just a cheap Molly 2.0. Why'd it have to be, weh little sister. Why couldn't she… [view original content]
I find myself agreeing with a lot of the issues brought up. The 'trust' theme and the treatment of Nick and Sarah in particular. I thought the whole 'trust' thing was the reason we didn't learn much about the cabin group (so the player might treat them with an air of suspicion), but it never went anywhere, never culminated in some choice, or was brought up by characters depending on how you treated them. The theme was dropped and as a result, we still don't know much about the group. And now only one of them remains.
The decision to kill off Nick as they did felt like a bizarre choice. Another character died to fuel his progression, they devoted so much screen time to develop Nick only for him to meander for the next two episodes and get killed off-screen with a death that serves just as much purpose as his existence post-episode 2.
As for Sarah's later death in episode 4... it felt as though she was thrown under the bus just so Jane leaving the group was still justified. Her death certainly didn't speak to the message that some people don't want to be saved; Sarah was screaming for the group to help her. If her death was meant to develop Jane in anyway, then they just killed off an established character for the sake of someone who leaves shortly afterwards.
Before I sound like a complete curmudgeon, I do enjoy the series; I really do. I loved the initial intrigue between the cabin group and Carver, all the stuff with Nick and Walter, meeting Kenny again, Jane's back story and character, the lighthearted stuff with Bonnie and Mike, etc, etc. It's just that (from my own shoddy perspective) the perceived lack of planning for the series and the way they've wasted and discarded some of the characters just feels like a wet blanket over the season.
It's almost sad how disappointing season 2 turned out to be, and the small chances of redemption have been pretty much thrown away with Amid the Ruins.
So true, I also don't understand How Jane suddenly became so important to Sarah in the span of like 10 seconds? Jane's "She reminds me of my sister" feels like a real cheap shot to suddenly make her important to all girls younger than her. Like I don't mind if she DID feel so, but for her to suddenly be so important that Sarah ends up being HER support character is a load of bull because what about Carlos? Mentions of Carlos disappeared for Luke (but then again 90% of the problems in writing was because Luke was so poorly written in this chapter). Luke was the original cabin leader (sorta) but doesn't at all mention Sarah's death, Carlos' death and Nick's death?
I'm 100% certain if Luke was better written in this chapter, most of the problems of this chapter would be GONE. Kenny atleast has like mental instability on his side (still not good for sarita DYING but w/e) but he was infinitely better than Luke who's writing was just thrown down the toilet and now cost the loss of 3 great characters with 10x the potential that he does.
Agreed.
& this is what I'm talking about. There are so many fans who with hardly any effort come up with tons of ideas that are not on… morely better than Telltale's, but would take minimal or the same amount of effort.
Jane's character was completely wasteful. Not only on how she was basically a rehash of Molly with only a few noticeable differences, but in HOW they went about with it. They spend the majority of her development talking about her dead sister & there was an interesting question that was almost addressed, that you can't force someone to live, that it might actually be cruel to force someone to keep going when they're not cut out for it. And they just start to draw the parallel between her sister and Sarah, but it is not followed through or taken any further. Sarah dies from a complete accident and it's never discussed again. A complete waste.
You're right that there was nothing indicating that you shouldn't just give up on her. Everything indicated that she was hopeless. She wasn't responding to your attempts to communicate with her, she wasn't showing any signs of improvement, she was a burden on an already burdened group. And yet you didn't give up on her. Despite everything, including Sarah herself at one point, telling you that she was a person who wasn't going to make it, you tried your damnedest to save her life. That says something about you. About your Clem. It says that you believe in trying to help people no matter how hopeless or futile it seems.
I don't recall anyone belittling or being abusive of her. Jane was pragmatic about the possibility of Sarah's survival, but even she was sympathetic towards her. Her pessimism is fueled by seeing her sister in Sarah, not by malice. Luke was yelling at her to get up, but that was after "hours" for trying to get her to move from a catatonic state so the both of them can get away from the hoard of zombies about to burst in and tear them apart. To me, everybody in the game just expressed concern for Sarah.
After you save Sarah in the trailer, she asks Clem why you did it. My Clem responded "We're friends," to which Sarah responds "No, we're not" or "I could never be that good of a friend." So I think the friendship between Clem and Sarah essentially collapsed after her father's death. And it make sense as to why. This wasn't a deep friendship based on commonality or mutual affection. It was a friendship based on necessity. It came about because Sarah wanted a friend and Clem wasn't in any position to say no. After that, it became a dependency. Clem became a proxy for Carlos and took care of Sarah when he could not. But she wasn't a substitute for him. She couldn't be. So when the real thing was taken away from her, Sarah just retreated into her own little space and shut down her relationships with everyone else.
Clem was responding specifically to Jane trying to console her and tell her that they tried to save Sarah but that it wasn't enough. So it makes sense for her to talk about the act of saving Sarah rather than Sarah herself. But I do agree that, at some point, either Luke or Rebecca should have talked to Clem specifically about Sarah to give her death more closure.
You make is sound like I just don't like the fact that Sarah dies and there's nothing you can do about it, but that's not what I meant for i… moret to sound like.
I actually agree with you, in the past episodes, Sarah has been built up this way, and a breakdown was not out of character. I didn't expect Sarah to be able to turn into a zombie-killing badass, and I didn't want her to. And I realize that her character itself is consistent in episode 4. But her treatment is not.
Telltale is completely disrespectful to her character, there is nothing to indicate that you shouldn't just completely give up on her. Multiple characters are belittling and downright abusive to her and you are never given the opportunity to call them out, disagree, or even acknowledge that it happened. She is treated as hopeless from the beginning.
There was barely any acknowledgment that Clementine is friends with Sarah, that they've been through a lot and may have buil… [view original content]
That last paragraph is the EXACT reason I didn't want to play Clem as Season 2 protagonist. As Lee, the stuff you said and could do held more weight. Although the group in Season 1 didn't officially have a leader, Lee's words were always directing the group in some way, as were Lilly's and Kenny's.Now in Season 2, even if Clem has a say in stuff - in the end, she's still a kid. Her opinion is bound to be taken less into account than an adult's, and that, in turn, makes the player more powerless.
I'm not angry - I guess that, by that point, I'm not invested enough into second season to get pissed. After finishing Episode 4 I suddenly … morerealised I don't care anymore about any of the group members. They die? Hard luck, let's move on. For the first time since TWD began, I'm not especially excited for new episode of Telltale game - and it's a season finale!
I agree with most of your points, so I will focus on areas where we differ. Let's begin with saying that I don't think that Telltale doesn't care, or tries to troll their players. I agree Season 2 isn't fully what I hoped for. But there is a big difference between failing to meet expactations, and not even trying to succed. I can agree, though, that Nick was handled VERY poorly. I kept waiting for longer conversation with him, there was a lot he could have to say. But nope, he was demoted to background decoration and then executed offscreen, To this day I have no clue what was the poi… [view original content]
After skimming through this thread, I know a lot of you will probably not like my opinion, but I never liked Sarah. I never felt like she added anything worthwhile to the story, and was always kind of annoyed by her. Clem's speech to Sarah resulting in nothing important is, in my opinion, very important, as it shows that no matter how hard you try with Sarah, it won't go anywhere. Sarah clearly has a disorder, and she's not to blame for the way she is (at least for the most part), and I did try to save her, but I don't think I'll be missing her either.
As for Jane, I liked her, but after what had happened furing Ep. 4 I was fine with her leaving. Yes, she was quite similar to Molly's character, but what are you gonna do, you kind of need a loner character every now and again, or at least I feel like I do. They could've been a bit more creative about her back story, although I personally feel like it would've been best to keep it more of a mystery altogether, as it didn't really matter, and everyone could've made one up in a way that they feel fit.
I think Luke is becoming a bit more of a "douchebag" because all the crazy sh*t is starting to get to him. Now with Nick being dead as well, I think he's just starting to crack, to break down a little, which I felt was quite understandable. Him having sex with Jane instead of looking out for the group is just another sign of that, and with Luke starting to break, and his explanation given, I feel like that also made sense. It wasn't good of him to do that, but it made sense to me.
Kenny is just being Kenny, and although I was happy that he had someone in Sarita that made him happy, I always had a strong feeling that it wasn't going to last. Sarita's character just didn't seem important enough to stick around. So now he's just back to his confronting, miserable old self. And although I was VERY mad at him after blaming Clem for Sarita's death, and would've loved the option to tell him to f*** off, I just can't stay mad at him, and I'll always be on his side, but that's just me...
So with that being said about Luke and Kenny, I think saying that Telltale is simply making them d-bags is an incredibly superficial way of looking at them. They are both far from perfect, and they both made mistakes/said horrible things, but in my opinion both their behaviours are relatively understandable, given the circumstances. People deal with bad situations differently, and this is their way of doing it, and at no point did I feel like that was just "making them d-bags" out of laziness.
All in all I thought Ep. 4 was great. And I think that the points OP made were fair enough (maybe except for the one I mentioned in my last paragraph). I just don't agree with them. And nobody has to agree with my points, I just wanted to give another view on how things could be interpreted. Maybe someone's with me. Maybe not. The End.
I completely agree with every single thing you say, It's well written, rich and sensible.The only thing wrong it's that none of the staff give a shit about what you wrote.NONE.
Try and prove me wrong @puzzlebox or other Telltale staff.
I completely agree with every single thing you say, It's well written, rich and sensible.The only thing wrong it's that none of the staff give a shit about what you wrote.NONE.
Try and prove me wrong @puzzlebox or other Telltale staff.
Because telltale has a story to tell, a story they want to tell, and they won't change it because of fans. I think that they love the universe, the franchise and their characters. So instead of changing stuff to please fans, they will continue their vision. I don't want to say that they don't respect their fans, but walking dead is a ruthless universe, and death is part of it.
seems that way and I can't believe people are disagreeing with me.
C'mon we made a thread and called #SaveNick and we the only thing we got is his reanimated body.SHAME.
Because telltale has a story to tell, a story they want to tell, and they won't change it because of fans. I think that they love the univer… morese, the franchise and their characters. So instead of changing stuff to please fans, they will continue their vision. I don't want to say that they don't respect their fans, but walking dead is a ruthless universe, and death is part of it.
You know what? OP is extremely right. I Don't want this thread to be forgotten. I want it to be at the top of the discussion board so that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, someone from telltale will read this. I'm honestly extremely tired of this shit happening again and again...telltale will never learn....
Oh god, please, of course they read it. Do you really think that they don't see this or read this? They just won't answer because everything they say is going to be used against them, and the trolls will turn their answer into a huge discussion. So they accept your complaining and work instead of discussing with you guys like little teenage girls.
You know what? OP is extremely right. I Don't want this thread to be forgotten. I want it to be at the top of the discussion board so that M… moreAYBE, JUST MAYBE, someone from telltale will read this. I'm honestly extremely tired of this shit happening again and again...telltale will never learn....
You can't excuse Telltale on those grounds. Just because it may have its story better than something else doesn't mean TTG deserves showers of praise. They started out this season with huge potential and turned it into a gigantic mess.
Oh god, please, of course they read it. Do you really think that they don't see this or read this? They just won't answer because everything… more they say is going to be used against them, and the trolls will turn their answer into a huge discussion. So they accept your complaining and work instead of discussing with you guys like little teenage girls.
Their vision or your vision? I think that the second season is the story of a little girl growing up in a ruthless world plagued by zombies. And that story is delivered nearly perfect IMO.
All I see is idiotic fans that can't read this, they probably consider this a book - how sad. Telltale is just lazy and rushing the series to go on to borderlands and thrones, as it seems. It's possibly the sad truth, they just don't care. They can't call off the series since people bought the season passes so they did this. That's why nobody should buy their crap ever.
Telltale you need to swallow your arrogance and acknowledge what made you famous in the first place, pisses me the hell off.
Their vision or your vision? I think that the second season is the story of a little girl growing up in a ruthless world plagued by zombies. And that story is delivered nearly perfect IMO.
All I see is idiotic fans that can't read this, they probably consider this a book - how sad. Telltale is just lazy and rushing the series t… moreo go on to borderlands and thrones, as it seems. It's possibly the sad truth, they just don't care. They can't call off the series since people bought the season passes so they did this. That's why nobody should buy their crap ever.
Telltale you need to swallow your arrogance and acknowledge what made you famous in the first place, pisses me the hell off.
I agree but they should at least made Nick's death more HEROIC not Like Lee's brother.
So instead of changing stuff to please fans, they will continue their vision
That were you're wrong we made a thousands thread for Kenny's comeback in season 2 (Thank Nick Breckon) and they made it happen.by bringing back Kenny they made a wonderful episode 2 and 3.But Just during episode 3 and before episode 4 everything change with their vision.
I know you all hate me right now just my opinion I wish you respect that
Because telltale has a story to tell, a story they want to tell, and they won't change it because of fans. I think that they love the univer… morese, the franchise and their characters. So instead of changing stuff to please fans, they will continue their vision. I don't want to say that they don't respect their fans, but walking dead is a ruthless universe, and death is part of it.
It didn't really have great development in my eyes, yeah episode 4 had hubs and I appreciated that, but everyone was asking for hubs in episode 3 and we really didn't get proper hubs.
Comments
MAIN POINTS
-Sarah potential to be taught like Clem was by Lee was lost. Example: Episode 2: Teaching Sarah how to use a gun. She never uses a gun.
-The determinate friendship between Sarah and Clem seemed to mean nothing and instead focused on Jane. Nobody cared afterwards when Sarah died
-Luke was dumb for shouting at emotionally dependent Sarah (she has a sociological disorder). I mean he should know this stuff. "Snap out of it, Sarah, I don’t know what’s wrong with you!" Luke screams
-Characters are inconsistent. Luke has sex with Jane instead of protecting the group. Telltale's way of making choice between Kenny and Luke harder instead of staying in character.
-Luke is saddened more at the disappearance of Jane then his best friend death
-Jane similarity to Molly is lazy. She got more development then other characters despite being somewhat of a rehash.
-Nick's death and role after Episode 2 was handled poorly despite being set up as an important character.
-Cabin group suddenly trusts Clem in Episode 2. Example: Blackmailing Rebbecca becomes irrelevant, forgotten. Carlos trust Clem with Sarah.
-Brother-sister relationship between Luke and Clem disappears. Chance to talk missed (could be about Nick, Sarah, Kenny, the baby, life)
-Nick depression over Pete is gone suddenly, not addressed. Becomes Luke's cheerleader.
-Sarita killed off as more drama for Kenny.
-Missed chance to talk about Christa's baby. Clem possible knows about birthing process, doesn't acknowledge it.
-Clem's important speech to Sarah results in nothing important
-Telltale makes Luke and Kenny d-bags instead of likeable sympathetic characters with different view points and idea's
Hope this helps for those who are like "too long didn't read lol"
Thank you! You basically just summed up all of my issues with the characterizations of every single character this season, and pretty much all my issues with what happened in episode 4. I really hope Telltale reads this.
Agree 100% with OP.
The episode threw any build up in the past 3 episodes out the window and then some. And jfc, I kinda DON'T want Christa to come back because i'm scared what the current writers will do to her if she did.
So much Fridging, so much character potential wasted.
I was betting my hopes and money for Christa's reveal on her pregnancy when Rebecca was being born and Clem had to take care of it but that didn't happen.
Sarah's death was so disrespectful. ** a gun couldn't have fallen off the balcony atleast??? Give her a fighting chance even if t ultimately fails?? her character had so much potential**
As was Nick's death.
And Jane's character just makes me mad. Two characters were fridged for her for what? her to just LEAVE? I hope she comes back in Episode 5 just so we can kill her/cause her some misery. Cuz there has to be MORE to her than just a cheap Molly 2.0. Why'd it have to be, weh little sister. Why couldn't she be maybe a young mother who maybe tried to survive with her young child? Then maybe her fear for rebecca and her connection could be valid? that an irresponsible mother guilt is how she quickly turned to cold and loner for the loss of others?
Idk, they could have done so much more with her if she was gonna steal so much of our existing cast's potential and not a carbon copy.
I enjoy walking dead. This episode was thrilling but so many flaws. However, the careless fridging is really making me lose faith in the writers. And all that potential was just wasted so fast it hurts.
here's hoping HOPING episode 5 will be better because Episode 1 and 2 writer (where decent character writing and development) will be back. but my hope is real slim. This episode was atleast better than Episode 3 though. Episode 3 was a rushed WRECK that could have had SO much great potential and development but was filled with just quick fix thrills.
Thank you so much for having the patience and courage to post this, I can only say I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have stated.
& this is what I'm talking about. There are so many fans who with hardly any effort come up with tons of ideas that are not only better than Telltale's, but would take minimal or the same amount of effort.
Jane's character was completely wasteful. Not only on how she was basically a rehash of Molly with only a few noticeable differences, but in HOW they went about with it. They spend the majority of her development talking about her dead sister & there was an interesting question that was almost addressed, that you can't force someone to live, that it might actually be cruel to force someone to keep going when they're not cut out for it. And they just start to draw the parallel between her sister and Sarah, but it is not followed through or taken any further. Sarah dies from a complete accident and it's never discussed again. A complete waste.
The decision to kill off Nick as they did felt like a bizarre choice. Another character died to fuel his progression, they devoted so much screen time to develop Nick only for him to meander for the next two episodes and get killed off-screen with a death that serves just as much purpose as his existence post-episode 2.
As for Sarah's later death in episode 4... it felt as though she was thrown under the bus just so Jane leaving the group was still justified. Her death certainly didn't speak to the message that some people don't want to be saved; Sarah was screaming for the group to help her. If her death was meant to develop Jane in anyway, then they just killed off an established character for the sake of someone who leaves shortly afterwards.
Before I sound like a complete curmudgeon, I do enjoy the series; I really do. I loved the initial intrigue between the cabin group and Carver, all the stuff with Nick and Walter, meeting Kenny again, Jane's back story and character, the lighthearted stuff with Bonnie and Mike, etc, etc. It's just that (from my own shoddy perspective) the perceived lack of planning for the series and the way they've wasted and discarded some of the characters just feels like a wet blanket over the season.
It's almost sad how disappointing season 2 turned out to be, and the small chances of redemption have been pretty much thrown away with Amid the Ruins.
So true, I also don't understand How Jane suddenly became so important to Sarah in the span of like 10 seconds? Jane's "She reminds me of my sister" feels like a real cheap shot to suddenly make her important to all girls younger than her. Like I don't mind if she DID feel so, but for her to suddenly be so important that Sarah ends up being HER support character is a load of bull because what about Carlos? Mentions of Carlos disappeared for Luke (but then again 90% of the problems in writing was because Luke was so poorly written in this chapter). Luke was the original cabin leader (sorta) but doesn't at all mention Sarah's death, Carlos' death and Nick's death?
I'm 100% certain if Luke was better written in this chapter, most of the problems of this chapter would be GONE. Kenny atleast has like mental instability on his side (still not good for sarita DYING but w/e) but he was infinitely better than Luke who's writing was just thrown down the toilet and now cost the loss of 3 great characters with 10x the potential that he does.
Bad? This game is still better than 95% of all games.
You're right that there was nothing indicating that you shouldn't just give up on her. Everything indicated that she was hopeless. She wasn't responding to your attempts to communicate with her, she wasn't showing any signs of improvement, she was a burden on an already burdened group. And yet you didn't give up on her. Despite everything, including Sarah herself at one point, telling you that she was a person who wasn't going to make it, you tried your damnedest to save her life. That says something about you. About your Clem. It says that you believe in trying to help people no matter how hopeless or futile it seems.
I don't recall anyone belittling or being abusive of her. Jane was pragmatic about the possibility of Sarah's survival, but even she was sympathetic towards her. Her pessimism is fueled by seeing her sister in Sarah, not by malice. Luke was yelling at her to get up, but that was after "hours" for trying to get her to move from a catatonic state so the both of them can get away from the hoard of zombies about to burst in and tear them apart. To me, everybody in the game just expressed concern for Sarah.
After you save Sarah in the trailer, she asks Clem why you did it. My Clem responded "We're friends," to which Sarah responds "No, we're not" or "I could never be that good of a friend." So I think the friendship between Clem and Sarah essentially collapsed after her father's death. And it make sense as to why. This wasn't a deep friendship based on commonality or mutual affection. It was a friendship based on necessity. It came about because Sarah wanted a friend and Clem wasn't in any position to say no. After that, it became a dependency. Clem became a proxy for Carlos and took care of Sarah when he could not. But she wasn't a substitute for him. She couldn't be. So when the real thing was taken away from her, Sarah just retreated into her own little space and shut down her relationships with everyone else.
Clem was responding specifically to Jane trying to console her and tell her that they tried to save Sarah but that it wasn't enough. So it makes sense for her to talk about the act of saving Sarah rather than Sarah herself. But I do agree that, at some point, either Luke or Rebecca should have talked to Clem specifically about Sarah to give her death more closure.
That last paragraph is the EXACT reason I didn't want to play Clem as Season 2 protagonist. As Lee, the stuff you said and could do held more weight. Although the group in Season 1 didn't officially have a leader, Lee's words were always directing the group in some way, as were Lilly's and Kenny's.Now in Season 2, even if Clem has a say in stuff - in the end, she's still a kid. Her opinion is bound to be taken less into account than an adult's, and that, in turn, makes the player more powerless.
I agree. They fucked up.
I think season two is far better than season one.
It's not much of a game anymore.
Then it's still better than 95% of all visual novels.
In my opinion, Season 1 had a better narrative.
After skimming through this thread, I know a lot of you will probably not like my opinion, but I never liked Sarah. I never felt like she added anything worthwhile to the story, and was always kind of annoyed by her. Clem's speech to Sarah resulting in nothing important is, in my opinion, very important, as it shows that no matter how hard you try with Sarah, it won't go anywhere. Sarah clearly has a disorder, and she's not to blame for the way she is (at least for the most part), and I did try to save her, but I don't think I'll be missing her either.
As for Jane, I liked her, but after what had happened furing Ep. 4 I was fine with her leaving. Yes, she was quite similar to Molly's character, but what are you gonna do, you kind of need a loner character every now and again, or at least I feel like I do. They could've been a bit more creative about her back story, although I personally feel like it would've been best to keep it more of a mystery altogether, as it didn't really matter, and everyone could've made one up in a way that they feel fit.
I think Luke is becoming a bit more of a "douchebag" because all the crazy sh*t is starting to get to him. Now with Nick being dead as well, I think he's just starting to crack, to break down a little, which I felt was quite understandable. Him having sex with Jane instead of looking out for the group is just another sign of that, and with Luke starting to break, and his explanation given, I feel like that also made sense. It wasn't good of him to do that, but it made sense to me.
Kenny is just being Kenny, and although I was happy that he had someone in Sarita that made him happy, I always had a strong feeling that it wasn't going to last. Sarita's character just didn't seem important enough to stick around. So now he's just back to his confronting, miserable old self. And although I was VERY mad at him after blaming Clem for Sarita's death, and would've loved the option to tell him to f*** off, I just can't stay mad at him, and I'll always be on his side, but that's just me...
So with that being said about Luke and Kenny, I think saying that Telltale is simply making them d-bags is an incredibly superficial way of looking at them. They are both far from perfect, and they both made mistakes/said horrible things, but in my opinion both their behaviours are relatively understandable, given the circumstances. People deal with bad situations differently, and this is their way of doing it, and at no point did I feel like that was just "making them d-bags" out of laziness.
All in all I thought Ep. 4 was great. And I think that the points OP made were fair enough (maybe except for the one I mentioned in my last paragraph). I just don't agree with them. And nobody has to agree with my points, I just wanted to give another view on how things could be interpreted. Maybe someone's with me. Maybe not. The End.
I completely agree with every single thing you say, It's well written, rich and sensible.The only thing wrong it's that none of the staff give a shit about what you wrote.NONE.
Try and prove me wrong @puzzlebox or other Telltale staff.
I think that they are busy working to deliver the next episode early.
Yeah, no. Not even close.
seems that way and I can't believe people are disagreeing with me.
C'mon we made a thread and called #SaveNick and we the only thing we got is his reanimated body.SHAME.
Because telltale has a story to tell, a story they want to tell, and they won't change it because of fans. I think that they love the universe, the franchise and their characters. So instead of changing stuff to please fans, they will continue their vision. I don't want to say that they don't respect their fans, but walking dead is a ruthless universe, and death is part of it.
I'm not sure their vision for Season 2 is working 100%.
You know what? OP is extremely right. I Don't want this thread to be forgotten. I want it to be at the top of the discussion board so that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, someone from telltale will read this. I'm honestly extremely tired of this shit happening again and again...telltale will never learn....
No really, i think that. You can't tell me what to think. I said "i think that". It's not possible for you to say "no", because that's an opinion.
Oh god, please, of course they read it. Do you really think that they don't see this or read this? They just won't answer because everything they say is going to be used against them, and the trolls will turn their answer into a huge discussion. So they accept your complaining and work instead of discussing with you guys like little teenage girls.
You can't excuse Telltale on those grounds. Just because it may have its story better than something else doesn't mean TTG deserves showers of praise. They started out this season with huge potential and turned it into a gigantic mess.
Then why didn't S2 episode 3 have proper hubs and good character development when almost everyone was asking for hubs and good character development?
Their vision or your vision? I think that the second season is the story of a little girl growing up in a ruthless world plagued by zombies. And that story is delivered nearly perfect IMO.
All I see is idiotic fans that can't read this, they probably consider this a book - how sad. Telltale is just lazy and rushing the series to go on to borderlands and thrones, as it seems. It's possibly the sad truth, they just don't care. They can't call off the series since people bought the season passes so they did this. That's why nobody should buy their crap ever.
Telltale you need to swallow your arrogance and acknowledge what made you famous in the first place, pisses me the hell off.
"Nearly perfect" I disagree.
It had great character development: Luke, Kenny, Carver, Sarah, Bonnie. And Clementine, don't forget clementine.
Episode 4 had hubs.
Feel free to do that
Actually I think they really love the universe, the story and the characters.
I agree but they should at least made Nick's death more HEROIC not Like Lee's brother.
That were you're wrong we made a thousands thread for Kenny's comeback in season 2 (Thank Nick Breckon) and they made it happen.by bringing back Kenny they made a wonderful episode 2 and 3.But Just during episode 3 and before episode 4 everything change with their vision.
I know you all hate me right now just my opinion I wish you respect that
It didn't really have great development in my eyes, yeah episode 4 had hubs and I appreciated that, but everyone was asking for hubs in episode 3 and we really didn't get proper hubs.
Even as a fan of Season 2, i can't help but agree with absolutely everything you just said.
It's a shame that Telltale couldn't do justice to characters like Nick and Sarah.
In my opinion, these character 180 degree changes and wasted opportunities are the result of change of writers per episode.