They did miss a perfect opportunity to bring up anything about Christa's baby. Which Clem was there for, which means Clem could have known something about helping someone give birth. Or if she's so adamant to not help, it could show how something bad happened during Christa's birth, like the baby being stillborn.
I want to start off by saying that I agree with you on all of this; however, I would like to point out that perhaps everyone decided Kenny k… morenows about babies is because Katja was a veterinarian and he might have possibly witnessed a birth or two while visiting her office. Then again, Katja is never mentioned so the only one who would know this information would be Clem and yet the group assumes he's the one even before Clem is given the option to say that "Kenny knows about babies" or whatever the dialogue is that you get to choose from; and yeah, this would have been a perfect opportunity to find out what happened with Christa, but I guess the writer's had never come up with a backstory for that since they chose to time skip the problem away. I guess they didn't give two shits about fixing that mistake since they did ignore the fact that Clem spent months traveling with a pregnant woman. Well anyway, I just wanted to point out the vet thing because we should try to give the benefit of the doubt when critiquing work.
It would have been nice if, if you teach Sarah how to use a gun, she manages to shoot some walkers long enough for Jane to be able to save her. She could still be determinant and just die in the beginning of Season 5 in the shootout. But at least you'd have had the illusion of choice and past storyline buildup mattering for Season 4.
I was originally going to argue your points about each character, but I found myself agreeing with most of them save for Sarah. So let's jus… moret talk about Sarah.
Sarah's portrayal goes from sympathetic innocent with her own inner strength to being seen as weak and irredeemable.
There's a pretty damn good reason for this. Her dad, her sole emotional crutch was just eaten alive in front of her. Even a strong character like Kenny collapses into a shell of himself when his emotional crutches are taken away from him. Sarah becoming weak and irredeemable following Carlos's death seems perfectly natural for her character.
Clem is barely allowed to show any emotion to her, and over and over again the plot pushes you to leave her behind. The game treats Sarah like she and Clem had just met, a liability who you obviously are supposed to abandon, not as a friend who you have built mutual trust and affection with.
I completely d… [view original content]
I made the mistake of buying a season pass for this game. I feel they took my money, laughed and gave me the middle finger all the way to the bank. I will never ever buy another season pass. I may buy more of their games but only after all episodes have been released and I have read the reviews for the game in question. The season pass for TWD put the money in TTG's pocket to hire the people it needed for these other projects. It was all done at our expense with rushed, sloppy writing. Mark my word episode 5 is going to be an hour long and does nothing to satisfy the consumer.
All I see is idiotic fans that can't read this, they probably consider this a book - how sad. Telltale is just lazy and rushing the series t… moreo go on to borderlands and thrones, as it seems. It's possibly the sad truth, they just don't care. They can't call off the series since people bought the season passes so they did this. That's why nobody should buy their crap ever.
Telltale you need to swallow your arrogance and acknowledge what made you famous in the first place, pisses me the hell off.
Nicks death was the worst though. I was raging..no death scene for nick? They just leave him on a fence as a walker? Fucking stupid -_- there was zero emotion...it was insanity. The whole thing was just straight up lunacy. Season 1 was amazing..Lee's death scene had me crying like a baby. What a powerful scene. They really delivered. Then the beginning of season 2 was great. Then it just went downhill. And there's really no words for the new one. Just straight up disappointment all around
I made the mistake of buying a season pass for this game. I feel they took my money, laughed and gave me the middle finger all the way to the bank. I will never ever buy another season pass. I may buy more of their games but only after all episodes have been released and I have read the reviews for the game in question. The season pass for TWD put the money in TTG's pocket to hire the people it needed for these other projects. It was all done at our expense with rushed, sloppy writing. Mark my word episode 5 is going to be an hour long and does nothing to satisfy the consumer.
You didn't teach Sarah how to use a gun. Sarah held a gun, Clem parroted back what Lee told her, and Sarah misunderstood it in some way. That's all that happened in that sequence. Lee teaching Clem how to use a gun included actual aiming and shooting. Even then, the first time Clem had to use a gun, she froze up. And Clem, even back then, was WAY calmer than Sarah, especially after Carlos's death.
It would have simply been unrealistic for Sarah to have been able to do anything to defend herself in that situation. She was trapped and scared and panicking. The only use I can see a gun being to her would be to help put her out of her misery.
It would have been nice if, if you teach Sarah how to use a gun, she manages to shoot some walkers long enough for Jane to be able to save h… moreer. She could still be determinant and just die in the beginning of Season 5 in the shootout. But at least you'd have had the illusion of choice and past storyline buildup mattering for Season 4.
I didn't see any strenght in her, just a lot of issues.
She essentially rebelled against the wishes of her father by helping Clementine and getting her something to clean the wound, took the initiative in trying to get gun training, and wanted to understand what was going on in the group despite her father always trying to keep her outside of the problems they were facing. A burgeoning super survivalist? No, but certainly not just some useless kid with issues who was completely blind to the world around her. She understood when things were bad and wanted to be a part of it ("Distract? So I'm just an idiot?"). All this displays a personal strength. Zombie killing is important, but it's not the only strength, not even in the world of TWD.
She was a burden to the group - requiring resources and attention and giving nothing back. I can't recall a single time in whole season when she does anything remotly useful.
So basically, she was like Clementine in the first two episodes of season 1 before she got survival training. Now sure, Clem managed to do something two useful things (handing Lee a hammer, being small enough to get through the meat locker vent), but only out of sheer luck, not strength of character. Interesting how despite the group losing resources fast, nobody ever once thought of Clem as a burden that should probably be abandoned since she contributed nothing to the group.
But to be fair, I guess it's easy to completely adopt and accept a Crawford mentality when it's a character you don't care about.
But the truth is, by keeping her around you are actively lowering chances of survival for the whole group, and you can't just ignore that, or expect her to somehow overcome her probably life-long issues and do years worth growing up in few weeks.
The thing is, by keeping almost anyone around in this episode except Mike and Bonnie, you're still actively lowering chances of survival. Kenny's clearly not well at any point in the episode, Luke is a stupid fuck up, Rebecca is giving birth and physically and emotionally drained, the baby itself is going to be a gigantic burden (but I doubt we'll see anyone calling for it to be tossed into the river), and Jane was always quick to give up on people, was out mainly for herself, and ended up abandoning the group. Carver ended up being 100% correct about the group. They were all ultimately an obstacle to survival if we're talking the Crawford mentality, not just Sarah, and in my opinion, you either hold the same point of view for everybody who's an obstacle, or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose who should be cut out.
I'm not angry - I guess that, by that point, I'm not invested enough into second season to get pissed. After finishing Episode 4 I suddenly … morerealised I don't care anymore about any of the group members. They die? Hard luck, let's move on. For the first time since TWD began, I'm not especially excited for new episode of Telltale game - and it's a season finale!
I agree with most of your points, so I will focus on areas where we differ. Let's begin with saying that I don't think that Telltale doesn't care, or tries to troll their players. I agree Season 2 isn't fully what I hoped for. But there is a big difference between failing to meet expactations, and not even trying to succed. I can agree, though, that Nick was handled VERY poorly. I kept waiting for longer conversation with him, there was a lot he could have to say. But nope, he was demoted to background decoration and then executed offscreen, To this day I have no clue what was the poi… [view original content]
The scene with Sarah and the gun had already been discussed many times even before that tweet, and they drew even more attention to it with this tweet. What other conclusion would they expect fans to conclude other than it must be important somehow?
Instead, their treatment of Sarah in the episode felt downright mean-spirited. They build up Sarah to be important and sympathetic, and then afterwards treat her like a complete waste of space. They did not even try to create an illusion of choice with saving her. Every scene afterwards with Sarah felt completely tacked on and awkward.
You didn't teach Sarah how to use a gun. Sarah held a gun, Clem parroted back what Lee told her, and Sarah misunderstood it in some way. Tha… moret's all that happened in that sequence. Lee teaching Clem how to use a gun included actual aiming and shooting. Even then, the first time Clem had to use a gun, she froze up. And Clem, even back then, was WAY calmer than Sarah, especially after Carlos's death.
It would have simply been unrealistic for Sarah to have been able to do anything to defend herself in that situation. She was trapped and scared and panicking. The only use I can see a gun being to her would be to help put her out of her misery.
I didn't see any strenght in her, just a lot of issues.
She essentially rebelled against the wishes of her father by helping Clement… moreine and getting her something to clean the wound, took the initiative in trying to get gun training, and wanted to understand what was going on in the group despite her father always trying to keep her outside of the problems they were facing. A burgeoning super survivalist? No, but certainly not just some useless kid with issues who was completely blind to the world around her. She understood when things were bad and wanted to be a part of it ("Distract? So I'm just an idiot?"). All this displays a personal strength. Zombie killing is important, but it's not the only strength, not even in the world of TWD.
She was a burden to the group - requiring resources and attention and giving nothing back. I can't recall a single time in whole season when she does anything remotly useful.
So basically… [view original content]
I didn't see any strenght in her, just a lot of issues.
She essentially rebelled against the wishes of her father by helping Clement… moreine and getting her something to clean the wound, took the initiative in trying to get gun training, and wanted to understand what was going on in the group despite her father always trying to keep her outside of the problems they were facing. A burgeoning super survivalist? No, but certainly not just some useless kid with issues who was completely blind to the world around her. She understood when things were bad and wanted to be a part of it ("Distract? So I'm just an idiot?"). All this displays a personal strength. Zombie killing is important, but it's not the only strength, not even in the world of TWD.
She was a burden to the group - requiring resources and attention and giving nothing back. I can't recall a single time in whole season when she does anything remotly useful.
So basically… [view original content]
People who constantly go on and on about leaving this or that person behind because they're weak or a liability are exactly the same as the people in Crawford. Back then, we actually got to disagree with that mentality. This game wasn't supposed to be about strategizing or "winning". It's supposed to be about the characters, their relationships to one another, and trying to pull through in a fucked up world.
I didn't see any strenght in her, just a lot of issues.
She essentially rebelled against the wishes of her father by helping Clement… moreine and getting her something to clean the wound, took the initiative in trying to get gun training, and wanted to understand what was going on in the group despite her father always trying to keep her outside of the problems they were facing. A burgeoning super survivalist? No, but certainly not just some useless kid with issues who was completely blind to the world around her. She understood when things were bad and wanted to be a part of it ("Distract? So I'm just an idiot?"). All this displays a personal strength. Zombie killing is important, but it's not the only strength, not even in the world of TWD.
She was a burden to the group - requiring resources and attention and giving nothing back. I can't recall a single time in whole season when she does anything remotly useful.
So basically… [view original content]
ok i stopped reading as soon as you started praising sarah, you are right there were mistakes made by telltale,that mistake was not killing sarah sooner,i dont think they did anything wrong here.im glad they didnt give a choice to connect with sarah,save clem the embarrassment of having to keep up with her.now this episode wasnt a bad episode, it was sad but not bad telltale did everything right.you have no right to criticize thes writers cause i dont think you could do any better.leave telltale alone
I made the mistake of buying a season pass for this game. I feel they took my money, laughed and gave me the middle finger all the way to th… moree bank. I will never ever buy another season pass. I may buy more of their games but only after all episodes have been released and I have read the reviews for the game in question. The season pass for TWD put the money in TTG's pocket to hire the people it needed for these other projects. It was all done at our expense with rushed, sloppy writing. Mark my word episode 5 is going to be an hour long and does nothing to satisfy the consumer.
ok i stopped reading as soon as you started praising sarah, you are right there were mistakes made by telltale,that mistake was not killing … moresarah sooner,i dont think they did anything wrong here.im glad they didnt give a choice to connect with sarah,save clem the embarrassment of having to keep up with her.now this episode wasnt a bad episode, it was sad but not bad telltale did everything right.you have no right to criticize thes writers cause i dont think you could do any better.leave telltale alone
If they had paired that picture with one of Sarah I would agree that it was a bait-and-switch. But this is just them recalling back to when Clem first learned how to shoot, to remind fans that the little girl they're playing as can cap zombies left and right because they as Lee taught her. I can see why fans would have theorized that this had something to do with Sarah. But this is the same fandom that took a joke tweet about pizza and ice-cream and made it into a metaphor for the ultimate choice of the season.
Sarah was a complete waste of space in Episode 3. All she did was ask where her dad was and mope when he wasn't there. And get in trouble or get other people in trouble. But I don't see how that makes her unsympathetic. I still felt bad for her. And I felt bad that, despite my efforts, there was really nothing I could do to help her. The sheltered little girl lost her only means to function in an incredibly cruel world.
I disagree that every scene afterwards with Sarah felt afterwards and tacked on. Her asking Clementine if everyone was going to leave her, why Clementine didn't leave her, and revealing her delusion that her father is still alive seemed perfectly natural and heartfelt to me.
The scene with Sarah and the gun had already been discussed many times even before that tweet, and they drew even more attention to it with … morethis tweet. What other conclusion would they expect fans to conclude other than it must be important somehow?
Instead, their treatment of Sarah in the episode felt downright mean-spirited. They build up Sarah to be important and sympathetic, and then afterwards treat her like a complete waste of space. They did not even try to create an illusion of choice with saving her. Every scene afterwards with Sarah felt completely tacked on and awkward.
Telltale: Your season 1's choices will affect the 400 DAYS gameplay, and your 400 DAYS' choices will affect season 2's gameplay.
AND NONE… more OF THAT WILL FUCKING MATTER BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO DIE WILL DIE AND ALL THE PLAYERS WILL HAVE THE SAME ENDING.
LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL
But Clem DID cap zombies left and right in this episode.
& I don't mean that Sarah wasn't sympathetic, I just mean that the narrative is no longer sympathetic or respectful toward her. Instead it treats her as if she's beyond all redemption and you should just give up on her. Every interaction with her ends in a "well that was pointless" feeling. When Clem talks to her after rescuing her from the trailer, and Sarah starts talking about her dad, Clem makes a face like "whoaa she's crazy" and we are not allowed to interact with her anymore after that.
If they had paired that picture with one of Sarah I would agree that it was a bait-and-switch. But this is just them recalling back to when … moreClem first learned how to shoot, to remind fans that the little girl they're playing as can cap zombies left and right because they as Lee taught her. I can see why fans would have theorized that this had something to do with Sarah. But this is the same fandom that took a joke tweet about pizza and ice-cream and made it into a metaphor for the ultimate choice of the season.
Sarah was a complete waste of space in Episode 3. All she did was ask where her dad was and mope when he wasn't there. And get in trouble or get other people in trouble. But I don't see how that makes her unsympathetic. I still felt bad for her. And I felt bad that, despite my efforts, there was really nothing I could do to help her. The sheltered little girl lost her only means to function in an incredibly cruel world.
I disagre… [view original content]
ok i stopped reading as soon as you started praising sarah, you are right there were mistakes made by telltale,that mistake was not killing … moresarah sooner,i dont think they did anything wrong here.im glad they didnt give a choice to connect with sarah,save clem the embarrassment of having to keep up with her.now this episode wasnt a bad episode, it was sad but not bad telltale did everything right.you have no right to criticize thes writers cause i dont think you could do any better.leave telltale alone
I was not "praising" Sarah. Yes, I liked her, and strongly identified with her actually, but I am not praising her. I am trying to show how Telltale has gone about portraying her character, they used to show her positive and negative qualities and gave proper respect to her mental issues but now she is shown in a completely one-sided light. And on the contrary, we have had many chances to connect with Sarah. Up until this point.
Yeah this episode was sad. Sad for the characters and buildup that got flushed down the drain for nothing.
And I'm pretty sure that you don't have to be a professional writer in order to recognize when a story doesn't make any narrative or thematic sense.
ok i stopped reading as soon as you started praising sarah, you are right there were mistakes made by telltale,that mistake was not killing … moresarah sooner,i dont think they did anything wrong here.im glad they didnt give a choice to connect with sarah,save clem the embarrassment of having to keep up with her.now this episode wasnt a bad episode, it was sad but not bad telltale did everything right.you have no right to criticize thes writers cause i dont think you could do any better.leave telltale alone
Sorry, that "no" wasn't supposed to be there. I'm bad at proofreading I guess. Or too lazy to. Both.
That's how it feels when you try to help someone who won't help themselves and who won't face the reality they're in. It feels pointless. It feels like you should give up. It feels like they're not worth saving them. Even if they're good friends. But if you really care for them, you keep pushing yourself to help, because you know deep down that it's the right thing to do.
But Clem DID cap zombies left and right in this episode.
& I don't mean that Sarah wasn't sympathetic, I just mean that the narrativ… moree is no longer sympathetic or respectful toward her. Instead it treats her as if she's beyond all redemption and you should just give up on her. Every interaction with her ends in a "well that was pointless" feeling. When Clem talks to her after rescuing her from the trailer, and Sarah starts talking about her dad, Clem makes a face like "whoaa she's crazy" and we are not allowed to interact with her anymore after that.
For all we know they could've just planned to bring kenny back from the release of all that remains (not stating thats what happened but a possibility)
I agree but they should at least made Nick's death more HEROIC not Like Lee's brother.
So instead of changing stuff to please fans, th… moreey will continue their vision
That were you're wrong we made a thousands thread for Kenny's comeback in season 2 (Thank Nick Breckon) and they made it happen.by bringing back Kenny they made a wonderful episode 2 and 3.But Just during episode 3 and before episode 4 everything change with their vision.
I know you all hate me right now just my opinion I wish you respect that
I agree with op, I felt season 2 is playing more like a B-rate horror movie the way they kill off characters with no strategy or meaning. Sarita. Nick. Sarah. Although I enjoyed the episode... the most unbelievable aspect is Clementine's apathy and uncanny ability to perfectly emotionally manage these psychological scary storms as if she had a cheet sheet. Where is the realistic characters and the flowing inter weaving between episodes?
I think writers must work on two consecutive episodes so as to have a little less lead shifts in characters.... who else agrees?
Also, please if Kenny goes let Clementine show some emotion?
I'd love to see you have the same train of thought if you have been living completely sheltered for years and finally had your father (the only family) be Beaten in front of you by a psychopath, consequently HIT by your father who never struck you before, and suddenly killed and eaten by zombies.
Then realize your surrounded by the undead.
Also if you don't know what a bigot is or hasn't met anyone with disabilities or show a shred of empathy and think she deserves immense violence on them because they aren't "strong" then you need to grow up.
disabilities or not,she should have the common sense to know if you sit there and let walkers eat you it will make you dead
and what the heck is a bigot?
But that's not how Sarah was being treated. The story did not treat the situation as if you strongly care about this person but are helpless to save them. The way Sarah is treated, it's like no one barely even knows her or cares.
The only characters that even acknowledge her, Luke and Jane, only talk about her in relation to their own issues - Luke "I can't believe I left her/ almost left her" and Jane "she reminds me of my sister".
Sarah was built up to be so much more, but in the end they turned her into a weak device to expand on Jane's issues, and even that purpose was completely wasted when Jane walks out for barely related reasons.
Sorry, that "no" wasn't supposed to be there. I'm bad at proofreading I guess. Or too lazy to. Both.
That's how it feels when you try to … morehelp someone who won't help themselves and who won't face the reality they're in. It feels pointless. It feels like you should give up. It feels like they're not worth saving them. Even if they're good friends. But if you really care for them, you keep pushing yourself to help, because you know deep down that it's the right thing to do.
Yeah.....I Stopped reading that long ass essay about halfway. I thought TT247 was on to something but then I realized a lot of the points being covered are really nothing to get mad over. The more I read the more it sounds likes a pissed of child who didn't get there way. There is TOO MUCH to argue back on but I will say this, This may be my least favorite episode I have played so far, but I really found nothing wrong with it. Still had fun, still got caught off guard, still made those gut-wrenching decisions. The only thing I didn't like about this episode were the choices I had to choose from. The choices are usually limited and that is a given with this kind of game, but I felt EXTREMELY limited this time like how the fuck did this choice lead to that. I saw nothing wrong with the character development but you are right about the clementine and Luke conversations. "Can't wait to bang Jane again" XD LMAO. Also Lukes behavior with sarah was completely acceptable because if I was Luke this is what I would have been thinking. I risked my life to go find your ass after you ran off, You just want to sit and die now that I saved your ass, I haven't eaten in God knows how long because I was trying to save YOUR ass and everyone else from carver, Nick went to go get help and he could be in trouble!!!! oh wait hes dead, anyway coming from the mind of a completely sane person....Luke let that little girl off easy. I'm just gonna stop here because I'd be sitting here all day trying to reply back to EVERYTHING. I enjoyed the episode, good job on the episode Telltale, but definitely not as good as I hoped for.
Ummm Luke has been with Carlos and Sarah for a while. So Yes, Sarah was out of control for Luke but He KNEW about her mental instability. And the fact that he didn't care despite playing hero is a complete OOC and crap writing that he'd feel absolutely nothing about her death or Nick's. (Nick was his best friend for 20 Years!!)
Yeah.....I Stopped reading that long ass essay about halfway. I thought TT247 was on to something but then I realized a lot of the points be… moreing covered are really nothing to get mad over. The more I read the more it sounds likes a pissed of child who didn't get there way. There is TOO MUCH to argue back on but I will say this, This may be my least favorite episode I have played so far, but I really found nothing wrong with it. Still had fun, still got caught off guard, still made those gut-wrenching decisions. The only thing I didn't like about this episode were the choices I had to choose from. The choices are usually limited and that is a given with this kind of game, but I felt EXTREMELY limited this time like how the fuck did this choice lead to that. I saw nothing wrong with the character development but you are right about the clementine and Luke conversations. "Can't wait to bang Jane again" XD LMAO. Also Lukes behavior with sarah was … [view original content]
Luke's behavior with Sarah was NOT acceptable in any way and it never will be. Not only because it was completely OOC for him, but Luke was yelling at Sarah way before he knew that Nick was in trouble, and even then he wasn't shown to even really give that much of a damn, so you really can't say that that's why he was yelling at her. And what even makes you think Luke "saved her ass"? It gave me the impression that he just happened to get lucky... real lucky... and found her in the trailer. Then proceeded to scream and yell in her face that he didn't know was wrong with her. Really Luke? Sarah, who he KNOWS has been completely sheltered and naive, has her father eaten alive in front of her, and he doesn't know WTF is wrong with her?
"coming from the mind of a completely sane person....Luke let that little girl off easy."
Ok, so because you are "sane", that means that her pain is just stupidity, it doesn't matter as much as yours, and she doesn't deserve the privilege to have feelings? Alright then.......
Yeah.....I Stopped reading that long ass essay about halfway. I thought TT247 was on to something but then I realized a lot of the points be… moreing covered are really nothing to get mad over. The more I read the more it sounds likes a pissed of child who didn't get there way. There is TOO MUCH to argue back on but I will say this, This may be my least favorite episode I have played so far, but I really found nothing wrong with it. Still had fun, still got caught off guard, still made those gut-wrenching decisions. The only thing I didn't like about this episode were the choices I had to choose from. The choices are usually limited and that is a given with this kind of game, but I felt EXTREMELY limited this time like how the fuck did this choice lead to that. I saw nothing wrong with the character development but you are right about the clementine and Luke conversations. "Can't wait to bang Jane again" XD LMAO. Also Lukes behavior with sarah was … [view original content]
I agree with you, but there's always that sloppy part in many great games, but they should make sure not to make the same mistakes for a 3rd Season... unless they can't prevent it.
I know everyone has their beefs and problems with this season so far, but there is really nothing different going on than the first season. You are still responsible for the life of a little girl, you are still trapped in a dire situation where casualties are a constant worry and problem, and you are still going to deal with things and characters that you don't like. That is just how this story is. It has nothing to do with how the story plays out at all, it's just how the story's always been written.
1: Constantly complaining about Luke's reaction to Nick and Sarah's deaths. It's called getting over it. You mourn, but you move on. so that you do not become a burden on other people. Some people handle death worse than others. For instance, Lilly handled her father's death a lot worse than Nick handled Pete's death. The level of their relationship makes no difference, but the loss does. Lilly never let go of the loss, while Nick got over it within a couple of episodes. People just handle their emotions differently. Clementine, within the span of two years, has lost her parents, everyone she came to know in the group, plus the person who was taking care of her and mentoring her like a father. And she managed to get over it and take care of herself within the span of a few hours. Sarah was a lost cause from the getgo. Carlos solidified that. She had no survival instincts, no sense of urgency, and no concern for the safety of others. So when push came to shove, she became a liability. There was nothing wrong with the way she was written, or the way the death was written. She died because she was just incapable of surviving. Nick died because of...well...bad luck. Another thing that happens all the freaking time in the walking dead. Sometimes you just get unlucky.
2: Connections with characters. I had a connection with each and every character in this series, including Reggie. If you didn't, it meant you weren't giving yourself a chance to experience them, and were instead naming off everything wrong with them. The character development was fine.
I'm just as pissed off with Kenny as I was in the first season. Hell I was mad at a lot of people this episode, but I wasn't mad at the episode itself. I was upset at the actions of the characters, not Telltale's writing. The fact that I got upset at these people proves how good the writing actually is. I mean I haven't been this upset since Handsome Jack.
I really think this episode showcased how well each and every one of these characters (except maybe Bonnie and Mike) can handle loss, and completely disregarding the effort of the writers just because you didn't like every single little thing they did is childish. Especially seeing as the season isn't even over yet. You're trying to compare a complete season to one that isn't, and it isn't a fair comparison. These characters' stories are not over yet. You don't know if they're still in mourning or not. They haven't really had the time to think of anything else other than just getting through to the next day. And while you may not agree with every little thing that happens to them, or how they react, none of it matters. Because this is their life, and you have absolutely no idea how these characters actually feel. These people have been through a lot, with no rest.
The point is, give Telltale a chance to close off the story, please.
Sure, everyone has their way of dealing with loss, but Sarah's death is just forgotten about once the baby comes out. Nick's death was just terribly executed and Lukes reaction being like "you stepped on a LEGO brick" didn't help. You're right Nick probably got over it in that 5-day time skip, which,by the way, was dumb
Yeah, i don't agree, Reggie was just there to be someone Carver could kill.
Eh, the way telltale is writing this story doesn't work for me.
Umm... It's one thing for luke to get over grief quickly. It's another when his best friend of 20 years DIES and he grieves for 2 seconds but then spends 5 minutes bitching that Jane left him when it was a one night stand.
A little girl who was the most vulnerable in her group was KILLED and he was their so called LEADER, and he said ABSOLUTELY nothing. Despite that her death was 100% his fault during the balcony incident.
I am not upset at the actions of the characters. Even Luke sleeping with Jane was Understandable even if it was a mistake.
I am 100% Upset at Telltale's writing of this chapter because Luke could have slept with jane and then felt Immense REMORSE for the death of his best friend (hence what caused his stress to sleep with jane) and being sad and responsible for the girl who then died because of his actions.
If he was written better with more believable grief and Sadness then 90% of this episode's problems would be FIXED.
Luke was always childish and made bad decisions but he wasn't uncaring.
Comments
They did miss a perfect opportunity to bring up anything about Christa's baby. Which Clem was there for, which means Clem could have known something about helping someone give birth. Or if she's so adamant to not help, it could show how something bad happened during Christa's birth, like the baby being stillborn.
It would have been nice if, if you teach Sarah how to use a gun, she manages to shoot some walkers long enough for Jane to be able to save her. She could still be determinant and just die in the beginning of Season 5 in the shootout. But at least you'd have had the illusion of choice and past storyline buildup mattering for Season 4.
I made the mistake of buying a season pass for this game. I feel they took my money, laughed and gave me the middle finger all the way to the bank. I will never ever buy another season pass. I may buy more of their games but only after all episodes have been released and I have read the reviews for the game in question. The season pass for TWD put the money in TTG's pocket to hire the people it needed for these other projects. It was all done at our expense with rushed, sloppy writing. Mark my word episode 5 is going to be an hour long and does nothing to satisfy the consumer.
Nicks death was the worst though. I was raging..no death scene for nick? They just leave him on a fence as a walker? Fucking stupid -_- there was zero emotion...it was insanity. The whole thing was just straight up lunacy. Season 1 was amazing..Lee's death scene had me crying like a baby. What a powerful scene. They really delivered. Then the beginning of season 2 was great. Then it just went downhill. And there's really no words for the new one. Just straight up disappointment all around
I made the mistake of buying a season pass for this game. I feel they took my money, laughed and gave me the middle finger all the way to the bank. I will never ever buy another season pass. I may buy more of their games but only after all episodes have been released and I have read the reviews for the game in question. The season pass for TWD put the money in TTG's pocket to hire the people it needed for these other projects. It was all done at our expense with rushed, sloppy writing. Mark my word episode 5 is going to be an hour long and does nothing to satisfy the consumer.
You didn't teach Sarah how to use a gun. Sarah held a gun, Clem parroted back what Lee told her, and Sarah misunderstood it in some way. That's all that happened in that sequence. Lee teaching Clem how to use a gun included actual aiming and shooting. Even then, the first time Clem had to use a gun, she froze up. And Clem, even back then, was WAY calmer than Sarah, especially after Carlos's death.
It would have simply been unrealistic for Sarah to have been able to do anything to defend herself in that situation. She was trapped and scared and panicking. The only use I can see a gun being to her would be to help put her out of her misery.
She essentially rebelled against the wishes of her father by helping Clementine and getting her something to clean the wound, took the initiative in trying to get gun training, and wanted to understand what was going on in the group despite her father always trying to keep her outside of the problems they were facing. A burgeoning super survivalist? No, but certainly not just some useless kid with issues who was completely blind to the world around her. She understood when things were bad and wanted to be a part of it ("Distract? So I'm just an idiot?"). All this displays a personal strength. Zombie killing is important, but it's not the only strength, not even in the world of TWD.
So basically, she was like Clementine in the first two episodes of season 1 before she got survival training. Now sure, Clem managed to do something two useful things (handing Lee a hammer, being small enough to get through the meat locker vent), but only out of sheer luck, not strength of character. Interesting how despite the group losing resources fast, nobody ever once thought of Clem as a burden that should probably be abandoned since she contributed nothing to the group.
But to be fair, I guess it's easy to completely adopt and accept a Crawford mentality when it's a character you don't care about.
The thing is, by keeping almost anyone around in this episode except Mike and Bonnie, you're still actively lowering chances of survival. Kenny's clearly not well at any point in the episode, Luke is a stupid fuck up, Rebecca is giving birth and physically and emotionally drained, the baby itself is going to be a gigantic burden (but I doubt we'll see anyone calling for it to be tossed into the river), and Jane was always quick to give up on people, was out mainly for herself, and ended up abandoning the group. Carver ended up being 100% correct about the group. They were all ultimately an obstacle to survival if we're talking the Crawford mentality, not just Sarah, and in my opinion, you either hold the same point of view for everybody who's an obstacle, or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose who should be cut out.
The scene with Sarah and the gun had already been discussed many times even before that tweet, and they drew even more attention to it with this tweet. What other conclusion would they expect fans to conclude other than it must be important somehow?
Instead, their treatment of Sarah in the episode felt downright mean-spirited. They build up Sarah to be important and sympathetic, and then afterwards treat her like a complete waste of space. They did not even try to create an illusion of choice with saving her. Every scene afterwards with Sarah felt completely tacked on and awkward.
100% Agree.
good point
People who constantly go on and on about leaving this or that person behind because they're weak or a liability are exactly the same as the people in Crawford. Back then, we actually got to disagree with that mentality. This game wasn't supposed to be about strategizing or "winning". It's supposed to be about the characters, their relationships to one another, and trying to pull through in a fucked up world.
...So am I the only one who DIDN't buy the season pass?
ok i stopped reading as soon as you started praising sarah, you are right there were mistakes made by telltale,that mistake was not killing sarah sooner,i dont think they did anything wrong here.im glad they didnt give a choice to connect with sarah,save clem the embarrassment of having to keep up with her.now this episode wasnt a bad episode, it was sad but not bad telltale did everything right.you have no right to criticize thes writers cause i dont think you could do any better.leave telltale alone
You and I think alike. I see some greedy CEO counting cash cracking the whip on some right out of high school writers.
I never thought TTG would turn in to another software company turning out hollow games.
exactly so what do any of you know about making a game?
You're referring to opinion, but opinions can be wrong. It could be my opinion that 2+2=3.
Try...
I *feel * season 1 made me cry more.
[Yeah, no. Not even close.]
Can't argue w/ what happened bro
They're supposed to be professional writers though. None of us are professional writers
If they had paired that picture with one of Sarah I would agree that it was a bait-and-switch. But this is just them recalling back to when Clem first learned how to shoot, to remind fans that the little girl they're playing as can cap zombies left and right because they as Lee taught her. I can see why fans would have theorized that this had something to do with Sarah. But this is the same fandom that took a joke tweet about pizza and ice-cream and made it into a metaphor for the ultimate choice of the season.
Sarah was a complete waste of space in Episode 3. All she did was ask where her dad was and mope when he wasn't there. And get in trouble or get other people in trouble. But I don't see how that makes her unsympathetic. I still felt bad for her. And I felt bad that, despite my efforts, there was really nothing I could do to help her. The sheltered little girl lost her only means to function in an incredibly cruel world.
I disagree that every scene afterwards with Sarah felt afterwards and tacked on. Her asking Clementine if everyone was going to leave her, why Clementine didn't leave her, and revealing her delusion that her father is still alive seemed perfectly natural and heartfelt to me.
caps lock is on bro
But Clem DID cap zombies left and right in this episode.
& I don't mean that Sarah wasn't sympathetic, I just mean that the narrative is no longer sympathetic or respectful toward her. Instead it treats her as if she's beyond all redemption and you should just give up on her. Every interaction with her ends in a "well that was pointless" feeling. When Clem talks to her after rescuing her from the trailer, and Sarah starts talking about her dad, Clem makes a face like "whoaa she's crazy" and we are not allowed to interact with her anymore after that.
Lol what?
Wow, I wonder if you are that much of a bigot in real life too for people who have disabilities.
disabilities or not,she should have the common sense to know if you sit there and let walkers eat you it will make you dead
and what the heck is a bigot?
I was not "praising" Sarah. Yes, I liked her, and strongly identified with her actually, but I am not praising her. I am trying to show how Telltale has gone about portraying her character, they used to show her positive and negative qualities and gave proper respect to her mental issues but now she is shown in a completely one-sided light. And on the contrary, we have had many chances to connect with Sarah. Up until this point.
Yeah this episode was sad. Sad for the characters and buildup that got flushed down the drain for nothing.
And I'm pretty sure that you don't have to be a professional writer in order to recognize when a story doesn't make any narrative or thematic sense.
Sorry, that "no" wasn't supposed to be there. I'm bad at proofreading I guess. Or too lazy to. Both.
That's how it feels when you try to help someone who won't help themselves and who won't face the reality they're in. It feels pointless. It feels like you should give up. It feels like they're not worth saving them. Even if they're good friends. But if you really care for them, you keep pushing yourself to help, because you know deep down that it's the right thing to do.
For all we know they could've just planned to bring kenny back from the release of all that remains (not stating thats what happened but a possibility)
Well s/he is defiant
Season 2 reminds me of Dark Souls 2:
Spoiler alert.
I agree with op, I felt season 2 is playing more like a B-rate horror movie the way they kill off characters with no strategy or meaning. Sarita. Nick. Sarah. Although I enjoyed the episode... the most unbelievable aspect is Clementine's apathy and uncanny ability to perfectly emotionally manage these psychological scary storms as if she had a cheet sheet. Where is the realistic characters and the flowing inter weaving between episodes?
I think writers must work on two consecutive episodes so as to have a little less lead shifts in characters.... who else agrees?
Also, please if Kenny goes let Clementine show some emotion?
I'd love to see you have the same train of thought if you have been living completely sheltered for years and finally had your father (the only family) be Beaten in front of you by a psychopath, consequently HIT by your father who never struck you before, and suddenly killed and eaten by zombies.
Then realize your surrounded by the undead.
Also if you don't know what a bigot is or hasn't met anyone with disabilities or show a shred of empathy and think she deserves immense violence on them because they aren't "strong" then you need to grow up.
But that's not how Sarah was being treated. The story did not treat the situation as if you strongly care about this person but are helpless to save them. The way Sarah is treated, it's like no one barely even knows her or cares.
The only characters that even acknowledge her, Luke and Jane, only talk about her in relation to their own issues - Luke "I can't believe I left her/ almost left her" and Jane "she reminds me of my sister".
Sarah was built up to be so much more, but in the end they turned her into a weak device to expand on Jane's issues, and even that purpose was completely wasted when Jane walks out for barely related reasons.
Yeah.....I Stopped reading that long ass essay about halfway. I thought TT247 was on to something but then I realized a lot of the points being covered are really nothing to get mad over. The more I read the more it sounds likes a pissed of child who didn't get there way. There is TOO MUCH to argue back on but I will say this, This may be my least favorite episode I have played so far, but I really found nothing wrong with it. Still had fun, still got caught off guard, still made those gut-wrenching decisions. The only thing I didn't like about this episode were the choices I had to choose from. The choices are usually limited and that is a given with this kind of game, but I felt EXTREMELY limited this time like how the fuck did this choice lead to that. I saw nothing wrong with the character development but you are right about the clementine and Luke conversations. "Can't wait to bang Jane again" XD LMAO. Also Lukes behavior with sarah was completely acceptable because if I was Luke this is what I would have been thinking. I risked my life to go find your ass after you ran off, You just want to sit and die now that I saved your ass, I haven't eaten in God knows how long because I was trying to save YOUR ass and everyone else from carver, Nick went to go get help and he could be in trouble!!!! oh wait hes dead, anyway coming from the mind of a completely sane person....Luke let that little girl off easy. I'm just gonna stop here because I'd be sitting here all day trying to reply back to EVERYTHING. I enjoyed the episode, good job on the episode Telltale, but definitely not as good as I hoped for.
I guess we could say we are... 'Amid the Ruins' of Vanaman's and Rodkin's departure.
Ummm Luke has been with Carlos and Sarah for a while. So Yes, Sarah was out of control for Luke but He KNEW about her mental instability. And the fact that he didn't care despite playing hero is a complete OOC and crap writing that he'd feel absolutely nothing about her death or Nick's. (Nick was his best friend for 20 Years!!)
Luke's behavior with Sarah was NOT acceptable in any way and it never will be. Not only because it was completely OOC for him, but Luke was yelling at Sarah way before he knew that Nick was in trouble, and even then he wasn't shown to even really give that much of a damn, so you really can't say that that's why he was yelling at her. And what even makes you think Luke "saved her ass"? It gave me the impression that he just happened to get lucky... real lucky... and found her in the trailer. Then proceeded to scream and yell in her face that he didn't know was wrong with her. Really Luke? Sarah, who he KNOWS has been completely sheltered and naive, has her father eaten alive in front of her, and he doesn't know WTF is wrong with her?
Ok, so because you are "sane", that means that her pain is just stupidity, it doesn't matter as much as yours, and she doesn't deserve the privilege to have feelings? Alright then.......
I agree with you, but there's always that sloppy part in many great games, but they should make sure not to make the same mistakes for a 3rd Season... unless they can't prevent it.
I know everyone has their beefs and problems with this season so far, but there is really nothing different going on than the first season. You are still responsible for the life of a little girl, you are still trapped in a dire situation where casualties are a constant worry and problem, and you are still going to deal with things and characters that you don't like. That is just how this story is. It has nothing to do with how the story plays out at all, it's just how the story's always been written.
1: Constantly complaining about Luke's reaction to Nick and Sarah's deaths. It's called getting over it. You mourn, but you move on. so that you do not become a burden on other people. Some people handle death worse than others. For instance, Lilly handled her father's death a lot worse than Nick handled Pete's death. The level of their relationship makes no difference, but the loss does. Lilly never let go of the loss, while Nick got over it within a couple of episodes. People just handle their emotions differently. Clementine, within the span of two years, has lost her parents, everyone she came to know in the group, plus the person who was taking care of her and mentoring her like a father. And she managed to get over it and take care of herself within the span of a few hours. Sarah was a lost cause from the getgo. Carlos solidified that. She had no survival instincts, no sense of urgency, and no concern for the safety of others. So when push came to shove, she became a liability. There was nothing wrong with the way she was written, or the way the death was written. She died because she was just incapable of surviving. Nick died because of...well...bad luck. Another thing that happens all the freaking time in the walking dead. Sometimes you just get unlucky.
2: Connections with characters. I had a connection with each and every character in this series, including Reggie. If you didn't, it meant you weren't giving yourself a chance to experience them, and were instead naming off everything wrong with them. The character development was fine.
I'm just as pissed off with Kenny as I was in the first season. Hell I was mad at a lot of people this episode, but I wasn't mad at the episode itself. I was upset at the actions of the characters, not Telltale's writing. The fact that I got upset at these people proves how good the writing actually is. I mean I haven't been this upset since Handsome Jack.
I really think this episode showcased how well each and every one of these characters (except maybe Bonnie and Mike) can handle loss, and completely disregarding the effort of the writers just because you didn't like every single little thing they did is childish. Especially seeing as the season isn't even over yet. You're trying to compare a complete season to one that isn't, and it isn't a fair comparison. These characters' stories are not over yet. You don't know if they're still in mourning or not. They haven't really had the time to think of anything else other than just getting through to the next day. And while you may not agree with every little thing that happens to them, or how they react, none of it matters. Because this is their life, and you have absolutely no idea how these characters actually feel. These people have been through a lot, with no rest.
The point is, give Telltale a chance to close off the story, please.
[removed]
Umm... It's one thing for luke to get over grief quickly. It's another when his best friend of 20 years DIES and he grieves for 2 seconds but then spends 5 minutes bitching that Jane left him when it was a one night stand.
A little girl who was the most vulnerable in her group was KILLED and he was their so called LEADER, and he said ABSOLUTELY nothing. Despite that her death was 100% his fault during the balcony incident.
I am not upset at the actions of the characters. Even Luke sleeping with Jane was Understandable even if it was a mistake.
I am 100% Upset at Telltale's writing of this chapter because Luke could have slept with jane and then felt Immense REMORSE for the death of his best friend (hence what caused his stress to sleep with jane) and being sad and responsible for the girl who then died because of his actions.
If he was written better with more believable grief and Sadness then 90% of this episode's problems would be FIXED.
Luke was always childish and made bad decisions but he wasn't uncaring.
....