I'm not saying he can't have an opinion. Maybe I came off a bit dick-ish on my reply.
And I never said his opinion was wrong. Feel free to point that out to me.
Just because you do not approve of Sarah's reactions does not make her a bad character.
Just because Telltale was completely determined to kill her off no matter what this episode is not on her. You know why she was standing there on the deck doing nothing? It was so she could die.
Carley's death had a purpose and made sense in the plot and wasn't immediately forgotten afterwards. It had a huge impact and reaction in the game. Sarah's death did not.
ok your right i wouldnt know about a disability,if what i said was offensive i apologies
i would rather get shot and possibly killed,than… more watch a mad man beat my dad.and fuck yes i would kill them or at least try im not saying i would definantly kill them,but id rather them eat me trying to avenge my fathers death than run away and let them eat him.and you know what i dont give a fuck what a bigot is,you use the word if you want but i dont give a shit.id be alot a hell more useful than sarah.
yeah so clem is a child to,as a matter of fact she is 4 years younger than sarah and has lost more than sarah ever will,i know clem wasnt sheltered as much as sarah but still age is age. and how do you know for sure she has a disability?are you her fucking doctor? do you just have her medical record lying there next to you?im not saying she doesnt,but you cant say she does.
what the hell do you mean warned the group of a herd of walkers.are you … [view original content]
I also saw Sarah as a kind and sympathetic neurodivergent POC. But I still don't see how that makes any more her interesting or complex as a character. She did nothing to demonstrate to me that there was any more depth to her character than kindness and weakness. Where that weakness comes from is novel and not something we see portrayed very much in video games, but that's still all it is. It was the same thing I saw in Duck. I didn't hate Duck. There just...wasn't anything to him other than exactly what he appeared to be.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion but lots of other fans saw much more in Sarah than that.
They applauded Telltale for including a yo… moreung girl who was not only a POC but was also clearly neurodivergent while also being portrayed as a kind and sympathetic character. Yeah, there are options to be mean to her but these were for the sake of player choice- the whole good/neutral/evil dialogue option pattern.
Sarah was a was a refreshing change in perspective and a chance for Clem to have a little friendship and solidarity instead of constantly having to deal with adults.
But in the end she was just dumped, and it was completely disrespectful not just to their fans but to their own previous writing.
you know maybe they are trying to prove a point.in an apocalypse no one is safe.even if you get them out of a bad situation they can still die.that was the purpose of sarahs death.No matter what or who.i dont call that bad writing.i call it the truth.
Just because you do not approve of Sarah's reactions does not make her a bad character.
Just because Telltale was completely determined t… moreo kill her off no matter what this episode is not on her. You know why she was standing there on the deck doing nothing? It was so she could die.
Carley's death had a purpose and made sense in the plot and wasn't immediately forgotten afterwards. It had a huge impact and reaction in the game. Sarah's death did not.
But I still don't see how that makes any more her interesting or complex as a character.
.
Where that weakness comes from is novel and not something we see portrayed very much in video games
Soo aren't you kind of just answering your question right there?
When was the last time you saw a young neurodivergent WOC in an apocalypse genre? Just because you personally don't find her character compelling doesn't make her any less complex.
I also saw Sarah as a kind and sympathetic neurodivergent POC. But I still don't see how that makes any more her interesting or complex as a… more character. She did nothing to demonstrate to me that there was any more depth to her character than kindness and weakness. Where that weakness comes from is novel and not something we see portrayed very much in video games, but that's still all it is. It was the same thing I saw in Duck. I didn't hate Duck. There just...wasn't anything to him other than exactly what he appeared to be.
you know maybe they are trying to prove a point.in an apocalypse no one is safe.even if you get them out of a bad situation they can still d… moreie.that was the purpose of sarahs death.No matter what or who.i dont call that bad writing.i call it the truth.
You do not build up a character and give them complex motivations, themes, and relevance to the plot only to suddenly treat them wildy OOC. You do not drop them with no reason and then say this is supposed to be "realistic".
You do not spend time building up to a plot point only to suddenly forget about it because "that's life".
This isn't life. This is a STORY. Things do not just happen. They are specifically planned by the WRITERS and are orchestrated to fulfill a purpose in the plot. You don't just shove compelling characters and themes together and then write them off completely and expect some kind of nihilistic theme to emerge when YOU DIDN'T EVEN BUILD UP TO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
you know maybe they are trying to prove a point.in an apocalypse no one is safe.even if you get them out of a bad situation they can still d… moreie.that was the purpose of sarahs death.No matter what or who.i dont call that bad writing.i call it the truth.
Novelty doesn't make characters interesting. Unique? Sure. But what we're talking about is character depth. Brie was an overweight cancer survivor. You don't see many of those in the apocalypse genre either. Did that make her interesting? Fuck no. (Apologies if you happen to be a Brie fan...but odds are you're not) You can't just take a flat character, add in a disorder or two and make them dimensional. Characters are interesting because what they do, how they act, what they say, not what they are.
But I still don't see how that makes any more her interesting or complex as a character.
.
Where that weakness comes from is n… moreovel and not something we see portrayed very much in video games
Soo aren't you kind of just answering your question right there?
When was the last time you saw a young neurodivergent WOC in an apocalypse genre? Just because you personally don't find her character compelling doesn't make her any less complex.
did you think maybe that was the actors last day?what if the actor playing sarah was leaving?and they had to kill her off, they have this character but no voice to stick with.think of that?
I've said this before and I'll say it again.
You do not build up a character and give them complex motivations, themes, and relevance to … morethe plot only to suddenly treat them wildy OOC. You do not drop them with no reason and then say this is supposed to be "realistic".
You do not spend time building up to a plot point only to suddenly forget about it because "that's life".
This isn't life. This is a STORY. Things do not just happen. They are specifically planned by the WRITERS and are orchestrated to fulfill a purpose in the plot. You don't just shove compelling characters and themes together and then write them off completely and expect some kind of nihilistic theme to emerge when YOU DIDN'T EVEN BUILD UP TO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I understand what you're saying but I don't think the episodes are bad, I think even if they are killing character's as they were only introduced in the last episode but the way they are killed off in a realistic way. (not saying getting eaten by a zombie is realistic but if there was a zombie apocalypse it would be like how the game is.) also you say it's sucks how heavily they reference season 1 well I disagree, I like when they reference season 1 because it was such a good game and why wouldn't Clem mention things that happened last season when almost everyone died and about the characters lack of emotion when character's die is probably because they have to keep doing stuff to survive and they can't stop to mourn the dead. Oh I almost forgot, you said you hate how Rebecca started to give birth out of and you think it's because telltale only wanted Luke and Kenny to argue, well even if telltale wanted them to argue Rebecca even says to Kenny "I'm not supposed to be giving birth yet, it's to early" so that means telltale intended for Rebecca to start giving birth out of nowhere. So with that being said I still think the walking dead is a good game and each episode that comes out is better than the last in my opinion and I hope they make a 3rd season.
I've seen quite a few posters compliment you on your points, and I'll give a sentence for that as well. I agree with your points, even where my intensity on them differs. But I'll raise the hypothetical glass to your grammar here.
Grammar. Matters. A lot. And your points were very readable largely because of that. Thank you for separating your paragraphs, for capitalizing correctly, for punctuating well, and for using the right words in context (I mean, not switching "there", "they're", and "their" kinds of mistakes). Those people who would argue against these points in the form of calling one a "Grammar Nazi" are wrong. Flat out, unequivocally wrong. You didn't do good.
You did well. Whether you typed this beforehand and edited it, wrote if off the top of your head, or some other method, thanks for that. I wish more posters were like you in this regard.
She's not a flat character with "a disorder or two" forced onto her to make her appear dimensional.
She was shown to be fearful and scared but also could be brave and selfless such as when she stood up to Carver in episode 3 when Clem is hit, "Don't hurt my friend."
She is shown to be dependent on her father, but also is eager to make friends with Clementine and is very loyal as a result, this could even be read as a conflict of interest such as when Sarah helps Clem find disinfectant against her father's wishes.
She liked to read books, and can if you choose, talk to Clem about it when they first meet, and afterwards you can even see the book she had been reading on the table next to Clem as if she had given it to her.
She is innocent and naive, and often shuts down in the face of danger, but she never loses her optimism
Brie had little focus and only minimal relevance to the plot, while Sarah was a major part of the story and multiple decisions revolve around her. You can't really compare the two.
Novelty doesn't make characters interesting. Unique? Sure. But what we're talking about is character depth. Brie was an overweight cancer su… morervivor. You don't see many of those in the apocalypse genre either. Did that make her interesting? Fuck no. (Apologies if you happen to be a Brie fan...but odds are you're not) You can't just take a flat character, add in a disorder or two and make them dimensional. Characters are interesting because what they do, how they act, what they say, not what they are.
You do not kill off characters who up til now have been complex, compelling, and relevant to the plot and its themes, and then excuse it by saying that it's "realistic". You don't slowly build up to one theme only to turn around and decide that you're trying for nihilism and futility instead.
And I don't think it sucks that they reference season 1, I actually used to enjoy the references. Go back and read more of what I said about them.
I dislike them now because at this point they're just a slap in the face.
"Remember how good season 1 was?
Remember how much you used to care??
Well do you???"
Oh I almost forgot, you said you hate how Rebecca started to give birth out of and you think it's because telltale only wanted Luke and Kenny to argue
I honestly don't know what you're talking about... I .. never said that. 0_0
I understand what you're saying but I don't think the episodes are bad, I think even if they are killing character's as they were only intro… moreduced in the last episode but the way they are killed off in a realistic way. (not saying getting eaten by a zombie is realistic but if there was a zombie apocalypse it would be like how the game is.) also you say it's sucks how heavily they reference season 1 well I disagree, I like when they reference season 1 because it was such a good game and why wouldn't Clem mention things that happened last season when almost everyone died and about the characters lack of emotion when character's die is probably because they have to keep doing stuff to survive and they can't stop to mourn the dead. Oh I almost forgot, you said you hate how Rebecca started to give birth out of and you think it's because telltale only wanted Luke and Kenny to argue, well even if telltale wanted them to argue Rebecca even says to Ken… [view original content]
Even if that is true, the voice actors for Clem, Rebecca, Luke, Kenny, and Jane were still available. If they really wanted to, Telltale could easily have been creative enough to write in a more emotional death utilizing just these characters than what we got.
did you think maybe that was the actors last day?what if the actor playing sarah was leaving?and they had to kill her off, they have this character but no voice to stick with.think of that?
Good points. A little background on Brie's character though that went some of the way to explaining her lack of depth to me at least:
Brie was modeled after one of the five pre order contest winners (the other four were the only four zombies in s1e5 that had non-generic i.e. not completely rotted models--other than Clem's parents). I thought her character felt a little pointless also when I first played it, but it makes sense that a character that exists because some random girl won a contest wouldn't play a big part anyway. Maybe that's just me though.
She's not a flat character with "a disorder or two" forced onto her to make her appear dimensional.
She was shown to be fearful and scare… mored but also could be brave and selfless such as when she stood up to Carver in episode 3 when Clem is hit, "Don't hurt my friend."
She is shown to be dependent on her father, but also is eager to make friends with Clementine and is very loyal as a result, this could even be read as a conflict of interest such as when Sarah helps Clem find disinfectant against her father's wishes.
She liked to read books, and can if you choose, talk to Clem about it when they first meet, and afterwards you can even see the book she had been reading on the table next to Clem as if she had given it to her.
She is innocent and naive, and often shuts down in the face of danger, but she never loses her optimism
Brie had little focus and only minimal relevance to the plot, while Sarah was a major part of the story and multiple decisions revolve around her. You can't really compare the two.
it was 2:00 AM in the morning I was tired pls have faith. So in my opinion the episodes are not bad and so terrible as he said. But yes it isnt so good as season 1 but there are other factors wich makes this outcome. And i dont mean the characters. I mean telltale made other big mistakes. One of these mistakes is twau. I dont think they rushed walking dead too hard, but IF they rushed something it's clearly wolf among us. And i think its the fault of TWAU that the other episodes becommign a little sloppy. Another mistake was clem as maincharacter. Yes I love her...we love her all, but she's a little girl. And now we have everytime the "Why did the little girl have to do all the stuff"-question in every episode and u know what? The question is justified. Because in some situation it really makes no sense.
So now the characters. I start with Sarah. I dont really know what ur excpected. In ep1 when i met her the first time I knwe shes gonna end up dead and still her dead breaks my heart. Yes the games pushed u to leave her behind, because they ARE people wich u cant save. Even IF u tryed it so hard. And it perfectly fits sarahs character in my opinion. She was weak. Very weak. Maybe the weakest character in the whole series. Even duck killed one person xD Okay srysly. What I'm saying is her dead makes sense to me. Sarah was to kind, to learn how to become a badass like clem. Not every child can learn or except the hard truth. Yes her dead was undeserved. her dead was unfair. But that's life. Up to Luke and Jane...okay I was WTFing too, to be honest.But it makes sense to me too. I mean all of the character doenst had sex for 2 years. And in extremly dangerous situations people to want it know.look at the series or the comics. It happend there everytime. Yeah Luke cared the whole series for the group, but that doesnt mean he dont want to enjoy himself for one moment. Even IF he helpes the group all the time he decided to do something for himself. Even for Jane it wasnt OOC. Jane is a character who bears a lot of pain in her heart. Those kind of people had sex to forget theire pain. To feel one time alive and good. I can totally understand it and I mean Luke is a good guy...maybe the best she saw in a long time...he IS quit a catch It was the wrong time, yes. But if those things bothered u than...in Season 1 the characters does a lot stuff that where much more stupid than this. For example the shitbird or batteries. Yeah Lukes behavior changed, but thats normal too. He is afraid for Kenny and well both hate each other for some reason.
Now Kenny...Kenny is about to lose it. He is one the way to becoem a completly psychopath. I dont know what else I can say about him. I still think hes a cool character. Sarita...phew...to be honest i knew shes gonna end like this. Yeah what I have to admid is this last decision in ep 3. Zombie or her arm. In the end it doesnt care...but thats the same like in season 1.
So what else can I say....Oh yeah...Nick. Well on this one i have to admid...they really where too lazy for this character.
I think walking dead season 2 isnt THAT bad as u all claim. Yes it isnt so good like season 1 but this had a reason. What did u expect? Of course they tryed to do something new and of course we are harder to inspire. I loved the last episode and Im shocked that it seems that everybody hate it
Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. Those are instances of potential depth.
Sarah's cry of "Don't hurt my friend!" didn't strike as being any more brave or selfless than her cry of "Don't hurt my daddy!" back in episode 2. It was an emotional outburst triggered by someone she cared about being hurt. That's nice and all but it doesn't really communicate anything about her inner strength to me.
The second point is more valid as an instance in which Sarah acted in a resolute way. What was she risking though? By her own admission, the worst thing her dad has done to her is tell her he's disappointed and that he wants the best for her. And that's if her father finds out.
This is kind of a shallow detail. Although it does show that she find escapism in losing herself in fictional realities she creates, which does end up being what she does after Carlos dies.
She totally loses her optimism, though. The whole time Clem tries to move her in the trailer, she just says "I can't, I can't." Even before when Carlos is forced to slap her, she mopes around because her dad hit her. It takes Clementine intervening to cheer her up and even then she still zones out and screws up unless you do her work for her.
If a fan really focused on the second point I can see why they might have thought there was more to Sarah. I just didn't see Sarah's action here as being all that impressive.
She's not a flat character with "a disorder or two" forced onto her to make her appear dimensional.
She was shown to be fearful and scare… mored but also could be brave and selfless such as when she stood up to Carver in episode 3 when Clem is hit, "Don't hurt my friend."
She is shown to be dependent on her father, but also is eager to make friends with Clementine and is very loyal as a result, this could even be read as a conflict of interest such as when Sarah helps Clem find disinfectant against her father's wishes.
She liked to read books, and can if you choose, talk to Clem about it when they first meet, and afterwards you can even see the book she had been reading on the table next to Clem as if she had given it to her.
She is innocent and naive, and often shuts down in the face of danger, but she never loses her optimism
Brie had little focus and only minimal relevance to the plot, while Sarah was a major part of the story and multiple decisions revolve around her. You can't really compare the two.
I was originally going to argue your points about each character, but I found myself agreeing with most of them save for Sarah. So let's jus… moret talk about Sarah.
Sarah's portrayal goes from sympathetic innocent with her own inner strength to being seen as weak and irredeemable.
There's a pretty damn good reason for this. Her dad, her sole emotional crutch was just eaten alive in front of her. Even a strong character like Kenny collapses into a shell of himself when his emotional crutches are taken away from him. Sarah becoming weak and irredeemable following Carlos's death seems perfectly natural for her character.
Clem is barely allowed to show any emotion to her, and over and over again the plot pushes you to leave her behind. The game treats Sarah like she and Clem had just met, a liability who you obviously are supposed to abandon, not as a friend who you have built mutual trust and affection with.
I completely d… [view original content]
That's why we need a season 2 of The Wolf Among Us, or at least another Fables adaptation. Personally, I think The Wolf Among Us beats this season of TWD by a Crooked Mile
Looks like I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't think abandoning Sarah is the only logical choice. There is a value in sticking to your moral code and not giving in to total utilitarianism. But it is also naive to ignore the survival aspect. It's easy to be hypothetical saint when you are sitting in front of your computer in warm room. It's much harder to share what little food you have left when you are starving, and you know that person you are feeding will not return your favour, or watch your back, because she's simply not cut to be survivor. I'm sorry, but Sarah is not helpful to group in any way - being intrested in what's going on does not accomplish anything. Clem or Rebecca's baby are future of humanity, if we don't take care of children we doom our species to extinction. Sarah is about 15, I think - not a little child anymore, especially given the circumstances. Others screw up, but at least they do something.
There is no easy answer to this problem. There is a lot of shades of gray between killing children Crawford style, and acting like zombie apocalypse Jesus. And I would love to see this problem tackled better in last episode. They did tried to adress it, but in the end they botched it because your choices end up being meaningless. Maybe, given time, Sarah would have grown out of her shell and started pulling her weight. Maybe she would have always remain liabilty, but effort to nevertheless keep her alive would be a great way to not lose faith in humanity - which, perhaps, is even more important then surviving. Maybe someone dies in vain, trying to protect her when she's doomed anyway. There is a millions ways Sarah could have been handled, and that's why I'm dissapointed Telltale choosed what I believe to be easy way out.
I didn't see any strenght in her, just a lot of issues.
She essentially rebelled against the wishes of her father by helping Clement… moreine and getting her something to clean the wound, took the initiative in trying to get gun training, and wanted to understand what was going on in the group despite her father always trying to keep her outside of the problems they were facing. A burgeoning super survivalist? No, but certainly not just some useless kid with issues who was completely blind to the world around her. She understood when things were bad and wanted to be a part of it ("Distract? So I'm just an idiot?"). All this displays a personal strength. Zombie killing is important, but it's not the only strength, not even in the world of TWD.
She was a burden to the group - requiring resources and attention and giving nothing back. I can't recall a single time in whole season when she does anything remotly useful.
So basically… [view original content]
Yep. DS 2 is still a pretty good game but it is so disappointing compared to DS1. I have just started my third playthrough on DS1 and I am still amazed by the level of detail they put into this game. The gameplay (combat, poise, weight/roll...) feels fantastic compared to DS2 and the level design is magnificent.
Season 2 reminds me of Dark Souls 2:
* Both are sequels to critically acclaimed games.
* Both changed the dev team/writers (in TWD's c… morease)
* Both didn't capture the points that made the first tittle great
* Both promissed things that ended up not happening
* Both are good games, but they do not live up to the originals
It's very noticeable the lack of proper development this season. What made Season 1 so good was it's good reliance on character development and interaction. You grew to know the characters as Lee and enjoyed their personalities and characteristics throughout the episodes. Everything felt a lot more in sync and the decisions felt like they had a lot more impact.
This season....I'm just not feeling it anymore. I was optimistic about the experience due to the fact your playing it as Clementine, but things just feel so un-organised and the characters aren't properly developed enough and when they do get some development Telltale just kill them I wanted my choices to mean something but this season they feel weaker than last seasons. This is what happens when a company get's too ambitious, the time and strain of these resources are shown and the games suffer for it. I only hope Game of Thrones does't suffer the same lack of quality.
Ok So...I think Telltales are really being Careless, Remember in the trailer park, The walker Grabbed CLem's Arm but he didn't get up, Same happened at the museum, The Walker just grabbed Clem's hand and was trying to pull her, The Walkers are supposed to Bite, Not Pull them like this. Telltales, DO something.
Are you serious? Umm last i checked, did Clementine WILDLY go after the bandits when they pointed guns at their group at the Motor inn? Hell fuckin no. She stood behind Lee and was petrified with fear. When she was attacked by a walker all the times before Episode 1, did she fight back? Absolutely not, she didn't kill a zombie herself until Episode 5 and Lee was the one who protected her every time. Also 1. I doubt you'll be anymore useful in her situation. She quite literally WOKE UP in a herd of zombies at that moment with her dad. She wasn't EXPOSED to them before.
Also 2. You're not Sarah, you don't have a mental disability, so what does your actions have any relevance? No one cares what YOU would have done.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT A DISABILITY IS? If you DID, you'd know her age is IRRELEVANT. A 30 year old man could act like a 10 year old child. You don't have to be a DOCTOR to see that. She has social anxiety disorder, and possible autism. Her behavior shows it so and if you can't see it then replay the damn game. ANYONE, a 15 year old included can have disabilities! And you're extremely ableist if you can't even see that and yet you think she deserved what she got. Maybe if you actually, idk, talked to more people/met some people you'd know how to spot people with such disabilities and not be so damning and ignorant of their situation. (which is you being a bigot)
Also I've commented already about the vast potential sarah has as a character.
-A possible best friend to Clementine (two females who grow to be equals in survival even if one needs to slowly learn to be so.) Clementine Never had a best friend to form a relationship with that was near her age. Everyone is ALWAYS older than her. Watching them survive and learn would have been fantastic. Her friendship between Duck and Ben was only briefly glimpsed through the eyes of Lee.
-Overcoming her disabilities and handicaps to survive.
-Being the daughter of a doctor
-A character who was Jane's antithesis of "Your better off alone/being cold is good". Sarah could have been clementine's glimpse of normalcy, of someone who sees the world as a better place than it is.
-An Emotionally charged death and Clementine Losing a friend she actually actively worked on having a meaningful relationship.
Her potential was goddamn immense and I find it incredibly sad that I have to spell this out to you when Carley was atleast given a respectful and meaningful death and life extension in Season 1 but Sarah suffered from just bad writing on Telltale's part.
ok your right i wouldnt know about a disability,if what i said was offensive i apologies
i would rather get shot and possibly killed,than… more watch a mad man beat my dad.and fuck yes i would kill them or at least try im not saying i would definantly kill them,but id rather them eat me trying to avenge my fathers death than run away and let them eat him.and you know what i dont give a fuck what a bigot is,you use the word if you want but i dont give a shit.id be alot a hell more useful than sarah.
yeah so clem is a child to,as a matter of fact she is 4 years younger than sarah and has lost more than sarah ever will,i know clem wasnt sheltered as much as sarah but still age is age. and how do you know for sure she has a disability?are you her fucking doctor? do you just have her medical record lying there next to you?im not saying she doesnt,but you cant say she does.
what the hell do you mean warned the group of a herd of walkers.are you … [view original content]
did you think maybe that was the actors last day?what if the actor playing sarah was leaving?and they had to kill her off, they have this character but no voice to stick with.think of that?
Sarah's cry of "Don't hurt my friend!" didn't strike as being any more brave or selfless than her cry of "Don't hurt my daddy!" back in episode 2. It was an emotional outburst triggered by someone she cared about being hurt.
EDIT: I checked and she actually says this even if you aren't her friend. So this shows that she's loyal and selfless no matter what. It was not the same as when Carlos was getting beaten, she was not cowering or shouting it out randomly, it was a specific action meant for a specific result.
The second point is more valid as an instance in which Sarah acted in a resolute way. What was she risking though? By her own admission, the worst thing her dad has done to her is tell her he's disappointed and that he wants the best for her. And that's if her father finds out.
You can't invalidate this just because the risk doesn't seem like a big deal. When Clem questions her about Carlos "telling her he's disappointed", she says "Yeah it sucks". This is treated more as humorous moment, but it still points out that Sarah is extremely sensitive. This along with all the other information we have about Sarah and her dad indicates that her helping Clem in spite of her dad is a big deal to her. Just because it doesn't have a risk to her physical safety doesn't mean it wasn't a hard thing for her to do.
This is kind of a shallow detail. Although it does show that she find escapism in losing herself in fictional realities she creates, which does end up being what she does after Carlos dies.
And that is a valid character trait that contributes to the dimension of her character.
She totally loses her optimism, though.
That is a valid point, but this is more to do with the direction/execution of the story rather than a statement on Sarah's character. She never is given the chance to do anything else. The entire episode 4 is focused on painting her as completely hopeless and trying to convince you to leave her behind.
Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. Those are instances of potential depth.
Sarah's cry of "Don't hurt my friend!" didn't strike as being … moreany more brave or selfless than her cry of "Don't hurt my daddy!" back in episode 2. It was an emotional outburst triggered by someone she cared about being hurt. That's nice and all but it doesn't really communicate anything about her inner strength to me.
The second point is more valid as an instance in which Sarah acted in a resolute way. What was she risking though? By her own admission, the worst thing her dad has done to her is tell her he's disappointed and that he wants the best for her. And that's if her father finds out.
This is kind of a shallow detail. Although it does show that she find escapism in losing herself in fictional realities she creates, which does end up being what she does after Carlos dies.
She totally loses her optimism, though. The whole time Clem tries to move her in… [view original content]
There is a value in sticking to your moral code and not giving in to total utilitarianism. But it is also naive to ignore the survival aspect. It's easy to be hypothetical saint when you are sitting in front of your computer in warm room.
But the treatment of Sarah in the story does not even have anything to do with this. Telltale does not try to emphasize this aspect of the argument, the closest they get to this is the whole thing with Jane and her sister, but even that is only BARELY pointed out to have anything to do with Sarah. It never involves or centers specifically around Sarah. It's always all about Jane's issues.
Not only is that completely disrespectful to Sarah as a character, it is oversimplification and understatement of this complicated issue that does not do justice to any of the themes or characters.
Looks like I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't think abandoning Sarah is the only logical choice. There is a value in sticking to you… morer moral code and not giving in to total utilitarianism. But it is also naive to ignore the survival aspect. It's easy to be hypothetical saint when you are sitting in front of your computer in warm room. It's much harder to share what little food you have left when you are starving, and you know that person you are feeding will not return your favour, or watch your back, because she's simply not cut to be survivor. I'm sorry, but Sarah is not helpful to group in any way - being intrested in what's going on does not accomplish anything. Clem or Rebecca's baby are future of humanity, if we don't take care of children we doom our species to extinction. Sarah is about 15, I think - not a little child anymore, especially given the circumstances. Others screw up, but at least they do something.
There is no e… [view original content]
If I were Putin,I'd give you a slice of Crimeea.I agree with you 10000%.I didn't saved Nick in ep2,however,on my second save file he was alive and I had some ideea for him.
I guess we can agree to disagree on the first point. It just seemed like a normal reaction from a person to speak up when something happens that they don't like. I understand that it makes Sarah loyal. I don't see how it makes her brave.
But it apparently wasn't a hard thing for her to do because she does it regardless of whether or not Clem befriends her. She does it as a way to get Clem to leave her alone. This makes it seem like it's not such a big deal to Sarah.
The conversation we've been having is about how Sarah's complexity telegraphed to fans of Sarah an outcome to her story that was different than the one that ended up occurring. In the case of her tendency to escape from reality and hiding in a fantasy world, that is precisely what did happen to her. So I don't see how that bolsters your argument.
It isn't just in episode 4 that this happens, though. Sarah loses her optimism quite easily in previous encounters with her. And so the fact that she became absolutely pessimistic to the point of hopelessness should come to no surprise.
Sarah's cry of "Don't hurt my friend!" didn't strike as being any more brave or selfless than her cry of "Don't hurt my daddy!" back in epis… moreode 2. It was an emotional outburst triggered by someone she cared about being hurt.
EDIT: I checked and she actually says this even if you aren't her friend. So this shows that she's loyal and selfless no matter what. It was not the same as when Carlos was getting beaten, she was not cowering or shouting it out randomly, it was a specific action meant for a specific result.
The second point is more valid as an instance in which Sarah acted in a resolute way. What was she risking though? By her own admission, the worst thing her dad has done to her is tell her he's disappointed and that he wants the best for her. And that's if her father finds out.
You can't invalidate this just because the risk doesn't seem like a big deal. When Clem questions her about Carlos "telling her he's disa… [view original content]
The only thing I truly hate about the episode was Sarah's death. I mean it did make sense of you left her the first time you got the option because its just shows how much you didn't like Sarah or wanted her to live. If you save her it did made sense, I mean, Clem tried her best, but her anxiety kicked in and she was Clem's friend (if you chose to be friends with Sarah). So of course, the slap to her face made sense and Clem's expression being mad was logical. She was gonna lose another friend, not to some walker or somebody, but worst to herself. Also, after losing so many friends, Clem was tried of losing, so yeah she was a bit pies when she slapped Sarah. But I do wish you had the chance to like say directly to her " Hey, I'm sorry for slapping you." But I believe it was most likely hinted that Clem was upset having to slap her. Later on, you're faced with the same decision: saving or leaving Sarah. Now, if you leave her, no else jumps down and save, its just, "Hey everyone, she just died, but at least Jane is alive." The only one who gave a damn was Clem. Here is the icing on the cake, if you do try to save her, Bonnie will try to hold off the walkers while Jane tries to save Sarah. But when walkers about to kill her and Jane gets stun, Bonnie doesn't shoot the walkers, she like "Well, she's dead." Okay, fine, maybe she ran out of ammo, but Clem had some ammo with her. Why couldn't Clem get up and shoot the walkers, then Sarah would have been saved. In addition, when Sarah says to Jane she can't move even though she lifted part of the wreckage off her, it means we need more people to jump down and try to save her. I mean its not a big deal, Jane eventually got back up to the Deck, so why couldn't anyone jump down and save her. This just makes me feel that her death was cheap, that or Telltale was trying to make everyone except Jane, Clem, Kenny, and Rebecca seem like cowards. I mean, Telltale could have just killed her off in episode 5, but she could have died like taking a bullet for Clem. I mean I'm fine with having her death, she's gone, there is nothing they could do, but at least make her death make sense instead of chopping her off. Even Nick's death made sense because we don't know how he died so its up to assumption. But in regards, I think episode 4 was a fine episode. I liked that Luke was acting like a whining brat because it made sensed. He been through a lot, he lost his friends and he not in the right state of mind. Plus, I can relate to Luke becoming a brat because I to do become like that if I'm stressed out enough. See he is still a kid, so he doesn't really have full control of his emotions. On the other hand, I liked Kenny's character in this episode as well. It makes sense for him to be pissed at everyone in the beginning cause he is once again losing another loved one and he just tried of everyone treating him as some kind of crazy dog. Also, I loved the part where he was like "just because you're a kid and everyone will just be happy with whatever you do," which helps remind the player, you're not a kid, you're living, so you'll be treated like everyone else for the most part. But I didn't get him saying its my fault that Sarita was dying if I didn't chop off her arm. But I'll let that slide cause he was not in his right state of mind. I'm also cool with Nick's death, I mean he was shot in the shoulder, bleeding. As well, he was running around finding help, so I can only guess walkers smelled the blood and went after him. He was probably running towards the hole in the fence but got stuck due to his shoulder, so he was frantically trying to escape, but got bit. So fine, that the life of the walking dead, people we love gets kill in the blue in awful, unceremoniously ways. But I kinda also wished for Sarita to talk in this episode, but fine, that's fine. Anyway, I think everything made sense in this episode besides a few stuff like Luke not giving a crap for Nick or having more choice freedom. Anyway, I'll give this episode a 8/10, not my favorite episode, but not the worst episode either. My favorite is the first episode.
EDIT: The only thing I did not like was Sarah's death, Luke's disregard of Sarah's illness and Luke not really caring for Nick . Other than that the episode is fine. The only reason why I did not like Sarah's death was that she could have been saved. But I do think that the group did feel sad for Sarah, it was just all the chaos and the baby on the way made everyone have to move on Sarah's death, so I give Telltale that. But Clem, if you look closely at her expression after Jane leaves, looks very upset about everything that happened that day, even if you tell Luke you're fine, she still looks upset.
Sarah's death , who was going to die from any choice you make, pissed me off... It's as if she was just a waste of character..
WTF is up with NICK'S DEATH!!! No detail information on how it happened.... What the fuck is the point in saving nick from episode 1 then?
Russian people? Did they take over USA? That Nerdy Russian kid... it errks me to see this guy in the game....
This game is way too negative...
The thing I've noticed the most about Season 2 is that we all thought it was pretty good until around now, until the build up that has been happening just finally collapsed on itself without much payout. We all thought the build up was great... and suddenly now here we are at the second to last episode, an episode that for some reason takes more focus on Jane, an exact Molly copy right down to the sister--- (plus I recall fans wondering if this WAS Molly when we first saw her, so it would've been easier and more interesting in a way to just make it be Molly)--- anyways. This episode, taking more focus on Jane than characters we were encouraged to like at the beginning like Nick and the cabin group.... it feels very dry. I didn't flinch when anyone died, even Rebecca. I didn't care too much when anyone died. The only character I was sad that died this entire season was Pete, because at least everyone was upset.
I've been very optimistic about this season. Yes, it's better than most other games, and I was hoping all the build up would lead to something great. But looking into Episode 5... I am not looking forward to anything. I am not eager to find out anything. Everyone is dead and all is hopeless, there's barely anything that can be done in Episode 5 that would tie everything up unless everyone literally sat down and discussed for a long time everything that everyone's been ignoring with no trace that anything's wrong with ignoring it. "Oh and Christa." ... "Oh and Sarah." ... "BTW Nick." "400 Days, a DLC everyone bought just to have them show up in one episode then never be seen again I guess."
There's so much that the build up failed on, and now here we sit with a bunch of broken ends that will never be tied up, and a main character who couldn't remind me less of the one Lee taught. She takes more value in saying Shit like Lee did than she does anything else he ever taught her.
The first few episodes were great because their purpose was to build up to now. And here we are, and everything is gone. There was no point of Carver's group chasing these people, because unless Luke has something very important and plot-twisting to admit at the end... then what else is there to look forward to? Who Clem follows into Season 3? Cuz I can promise that Lee's legacy, the money maker, Clem, isn't going to kick it by the end of the next episode.
Comments
Okay it's all cool, dude. I was bit dick-ish too. I apologize for that.
Just because you do not approve of Sarah's reactions does not make her a bad character.
Just because Telltale was completely determined to kill her off no matter what this episode is not on her. You know why she was standing there on the deck doing nothing? It was so she could die.
Carley's death had a purpose and made sense in the plot and wasn't immediately forgotten afterwards. It had a huge impact and reaction in the game. Sarah's death did not.
you know what i just thought of something.when you said most of them were butchered,they did the same thing in season 1
I also saw Sarah as a kind and sympathetic neurodivergent POC. But I still don't see how that makes any more her interesting or complex as a character. She did nothing to demonstrate to me that there was any more depth to her character than kindness and weakness. Where that weakness comes from is novel and not something we see portrayed very much in video games, but that's still all it is. It was the same thing I saw in Duck. I didn't hate Duck. There just...wasn't anything to him other than exactly what he appeared to be.
Yeah, meaning they died. And their deaths were meaningful. And before they died they weren't completely inconsistent and out of character.
you know maybe they are trying to prove a point.in an apocalypse no one is safe.even if you get them out of a bad situation they can still die.that was the purpose of sarahs death.No matter what or who.i dont call that bad writing.i call it the truth.
Okay, so...arguing against it or not? That's an odd way to end a post.
Yeah , they ruined his goddamn story , poor guy.
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Soo aren't you kind of just answering your question right there?
When was the last time you saw a young neurodivergent WOC in an apocalypse genre? Just because you personally don't find her character compelling doesn't make her any less complex.
Addressed to DarkDefiantOne: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bigot
i dont know if you truely wanted to tell me this to help or be smart,but either way thank you
I've said this before and I'll say it again.
You do not build up a character and give them complex motivations, themes, and relevance to the plot only to suddenly treat them wildy OOC. You do not drop them with no reason and then say this is supposed to be "realistic".
You do not spend time building up to a plot point only to suddenly forget about it because "that's life".
This isn't life. This is a STORY. Things do not just happen. They are specifically planned by the WRITERS and are orchestrated to fulfill a purpose in the plot. You don't just shove compelling characters and themes together and then write them off completely and expect some kind of nihilistic theme to emerge when YOU DIDN'T EVEN BUILD UP TO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Novelty doesn't make characters interesting. Unique? Sure. But what we're talking about is character depth. Brie was an overweight cancer survivor. You don't see many of those in the apocalypse genre either. Did that make her interesting? Fuck no. (Apologies if you happen to be a Brie fan...but odds are you're not) You can't just take a flat character, add in a disorder or two and make them dimensional. Characters are interesting because what they do, how they act, what they say, not what they are.
did you think maybe that was the actors last day?what if the actor playing sarah was leaving?and they had to kill her off, they have this character but no voice to stick with.think of that?
I understand what you're saying but I don't think the episodes are bad, I think even if they are killing character's as they were only introduced in the last episode but the way they are killed off in a realistic way. (not saying getting eaten by a zombie is realistic but if there was a zombie apocalypse it would be like how the game is.) also you say it's sucks how heavily they reference season 1 well I disagree, I like when they reference season 1 because it was such a good game and why wouldn't Clem mention things that happened last season when almost everyone died and about the characters lack of emotion when character's die is probably because they have to keep doing stuff to survive and they can't stop to mourn the dead. Oh I almost forgot, you said you hate how Rebecca started to give birth out of and you think it's because telltale only wanted Luke and Kenny to argue, well even if telltale wanted them to argue Rebecca even says to Kenny "I'm not supposed to be giving birth yet, it's to early" so that means telltale intended for Rebecca to start giving birth out of nowhere. So with that being said I still think the walking dead is a good game and each episode that comes out is better than the last in my opinion and I hope they make a 3rd season.
I've seen quite a few posters compliment you on your points, and I'll give a sentence for that as well. I agree with your points, even where my intensity on them differs. But I'll raise the hypothetical glass to your grammar here.
Grammar. Matters. A lot. And your points were very readable largely because of that. Thank you for separating your paragraphs, for capitalizing correctly, for punctuating well, and for using the right words in context (I mean, not switching "there", "they're", and "their" kinds of mistakes). Those people who would argue against these points in the form of calling one a "Grammar Nazi" are wrong. Flat out, unequivocally wrong. You didn't do good.
You did well. Whether you typed this beforehand and edited it, wrote if off the top of your head, or some other method, thanks for that. I wish more posters were like you in this regard.
She's not a flat character with "a disorder or two" forced onto her to make her appear dimensional.
She was shown to be fearful and scared but also could be brave and selfless such as when she stood up to Carver in episode 3 when Clem is hit, "Don't hurt my friend."
She is shown to be dependent on her father, but also is eager to make friends with Clementine and is very loyal as a result, this could even be read as a conflict of interest such as when Sarah helps Clem find disinfectant against her father's wishes.
She liked to read books, and can if you choose, talk to Clem about it when they first meet, and afterwards you can even see the book she had been reading on the table next to Clem as if she had given it to her.
She is innocent and naive, and often shuts down in the face of danger, but she never loses her optimism
Brie had little focus and only minimal relevance to the plot, while Sarah was a major part of the story and multiple decisions revolve around her. You can't really compare the two.
You do not kill off characters who up til now have been complex, compelling, and relevant to the plot and its themes, and then excuse it by saying that it's "realistic". You don't slowly build up to one theme only to turn around and decide that you're trying for nihilism and futility instead.
And I don't think it sucks that they reference season 1, I actually used to enjoy the references. Go back and read more of what I said about them.
I dislike them now because at this point they're just a slap in the face.
"Remember how good season 1 was?
Remember how much you used to care??
Well do you???"
I honestly don't know what you're talking about... I .. never said that. 0_0
Even if that is true, the voice actors for Clem, Rebecca, Luke, Kenny, and Jane were still available. If they really wanted to, Telltale could easily have been creative enough to write in a more emotional death utilizing just these characters than what we got.
Good points. A little background on Brie's character though that went some of the way to explaining her lack of depth to me at least:
Brie was modeled after one of the five pre order contest winners (the other four were the only four zombies in s1e5 that had non-generic i.e. not completely rotted models--other than Clem's parents). I thought her character felt a little pointless also when I first played it, but it makes sense that a character that exists because some random girl won a contest wouldn't play a big part anyway. Maybe that's just me though.
it was 2:00 AM in the morning I was tired pls have faith. So in my opinion the episodes are not bad and so terrible as he said. But yes it isnt so good as season 1 but there are other factors wich makes this outcome. And i dont mean the characters. I mean telltale made other big mistakes. One of these mistakes is twau. I dont think they rushed walking dead too hard, but IF they rushed something it's clearly wolf among us. And i think its the fault of TWAU that the other episodes becommign a little sloppy. Another mistake was clem as maincharacter. Yes I love her...we love her all, but she's a little girl. And now we have everytime the "Why did the little girl have to do all the stuff"-question in every episode and u know what? The question is justified. Because in some situation it really makes no sense.
It was the wrong time, yes. But if those things bothered u than...in Season 1 the characters does a lot stuff that where much more stupid than this. For example the shitbird or batteries. Yeah Lukes behavior changed, but thats normal too. He is afraid for Kenny and well both hate each other for some reason.
So now the characters. I start with Sarah. I dont really know what ur excpected. In ep1 when i met her the first time I knwe shes gonna end up dead and still her dead breaks my heart. Yes the games pushed u to leave her behind, because they ARE people wich u cant save. Even IF u tryed it so hard. And it perfectly fits sarahs character in my opinion. She was weak. Very weak. Maybe the weakest character in the whole series. Even duck killed one person xD Okay srysly. What I'm saying is her dead makes sense to me. Sarah was to kind, to learn how to become a badass like clem. Not every child can learn or except the hard truth. Yes her dead was undeserved. her dead was unfair. But that's life. Up to Luke and Jane...okay I was WTFing too, to be honest.But it makes sense to me too. I mean all of the character doenst had sex for 2 years. And in extremly dangerous situations people to want it know.look at the series or the comics. It happend there everytime. Yeah Luke cared the whole series for the group, but that doesnt mean he dont want to enjoy himself for one moment. Even IF he helpes the group all the time he decided to do something for himself. Even for Jane it wasnt OOC. Jane is a character who bears a lot of pain in her heart. Those kind of people had sex to forget theire pain. To feel one time alive and good. I can totally understand it and I mean Luke is a good guy...maybe the best she saw in a long time...he IS quit a catch
Now Kenny...Kenny is about to lose it. He is one the way to becoem a completly psychopath. I dont know what else I can say about him. I still think hes a cool character. Sarita...phew...to be honest i knew shes gonna end like this. Yeah what I have to admid is this last decision in ep 3. Zombie or her arm. In the end it doesnt care...but thats the same like in season 1.
So what else can I say....Oh yeah...Nick. Well on this one i have to admid...they really where too lazy for this character.
I think walking dead season 2 isnt THAT bad as u all claim. Yes it isnt so good like season 1 but this had a reason. What did u expect? Of course they tryed to do something new and of course we are harder to inspire. I loved the last episode and Im shocked that it seems that everybody hate it
Okay. Now we're getting somewhere. Those are instances of potential depth.
Sarah's cry of "Don't hurt my friend!" didn't strike as being any more brave or selfless than her cry of "Don't hurt my daddy!" back in episode 2. It was an emotional outburst triggered by someone she cared about being hurt. That's nice and all but it doesn't really communicate anything about her inner strength to me.
The second point is more valid as an instance in which Sarah acted in a resolute way. What was she risking though? By her own admission, the worst thing her dad has done to her is tell her he's disappointed and that he wants the best for her. And that's if her father finds out.
This is kind of a shallow detail. Although it does show that she find escapism in losing herself in fictional realities she creates, which does end up being what she does after Carlos dies.
She totally loses her optimism, though. The whole time Clem tries to move her in the trailer, she just says "I can't, I can't." Even before when Carlos is forced to slap her, she mopes around because her dad hit her. It takes Clementine intervening to cheer her up and even then she still zones out and screws up unless you do her work for her.
If a fan really focused on the second point I can see why they might have thought there was more to Sarah. I just didn't see Sarah's action here as being all that impressive.
very good words. I totally agree with u...dont know why so many dislikes
That's why we need a season 2 of The Wolf Among Us, or at least another Fables adaptation. Personally, I think The Wolf Among Us beats this season of TWD by a Crooked Mile
Looks like I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't think abandoning Sarah is the only logical choice. There is a value in sticking to your moral code and not giving in to total utilitarianism. But it is also naive to ignore the survival aspect. It's easy to be hypothetical saint when you are sitting in front of your computer in warm room. It's much harder to share what little food you have left when you are starving, and you know that person you are feeding will not return your favour, or watch your back, because she's simply not cut to be survivor. I'm sorry, but Sarah is not helpful to group in any way - being intrested in what's going on does not accomplish anything. Clem or Rebecca's baby are future of humanity, if we don't take care of children we doom our species to extinction. Sarah is about 15, I think - not a little child anymore, especially given the circumstances. Others screw up, but at least they do something.
There is no easy answer to this problem. There is a lot of shades of gray between killing children Crawford style, and acting like zombie apocalypse Jesus. And I would love to see this problem tackled better in last episode. They did tried to adress it, but in the end they botched it because your choices end up being meaningless. Maybe, given time, Sarah would have grown out of her shell and started pulling her weight. Maybe she would have always remain liabilty, but effort to nevertheless keep her alive would be a great way to not lose faith in humanity - which, perhaps, is even more important then surviving. Maybe someone dies in vain, trying to protect her when she's doomed anyway. There is a millions ways Sarah could have been handled, and that's why I'm dissapointed Telltale choosed what I believe to be easy way out.
Yep. DS 2 is still a pretty good game but it is so disappointing compared to DS1. I have just started my third playthrough on DS1 and I am still amazed by the level of detail they put into this game. The gameplay (combat, poise, weight/roll...) feels fantastic compared to DS2 and the level design is magnificent.
It's very noticeable the lack of proper development this season. What made Season 1 so good was it's good reliance on character development and interaction. You grew to know the characters as Lee and enjoyed their personalities and characteristics throughout the episodes. Everything felt a lot more in sync and the decisions felt like they had a lot more impact.
This season....I'm just not feeling it anymore. I was optimistic about the experience due to the fact your playing it as Clementine, but things just feel so un-organised and the characters aren't properly developed enough and when they do get some development Telltale just kill them I wanted my choices to mean something but this season they feel weaker than last seasons. This is what happens when a company get's too ambitious, the time and strain of these resources are shown and the games suffer for it. I only hope Game of Thrones does't suffer the same lack of quality.
Ok So...I think Telltales are really being Careless, Remember in the trailer park, The walker Grabbed CLem's Arm but he didn't get up, Same happened at the museum, The Walker just grabbed Clem's hand and was trying to pull her, The Walkers are supposed to Bite, Not Pull them like this. Telltales, DO something.
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Are you serious? Umm last i checked, did Clementine WILDLY go after the bandits when they pointed guns at their group at the Motor inn? Hell fuckin no. She stood behind Lee and was petrified with fear. When she was attacked by a walker all the times before Episode 1, did she fight back? Absolutely not, she didn't kill a zombie herself until Episode 5 and Lee was the one who protected her every time. Also 1. I doubt you'll be anymore useful in her situation. She quite literally WOKE UP in a herd of zombies at that moment with her dad. She wasn't EXPOSED to them before.
Also 2. You're not Sarah, you don't have a mental disability, so what does your actions have any relevance? No one cares what YOU would have done.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT A DISABILITY IS? If you DID, you'd know her age is IRRELEVANT. A 30 year old man could act like a 10 year old child. You don't have to be a DOCTOR to see that. She has social anxiety disorder, and possible autism. Her behavior shows it so and if you can't see it then replay the damn game. ANYONE, a 15 year old included can have disabilities! And you're extremely ableist if you can't even see that and yet you think she deserved what she got. Maybe if you actually, idk, talked to more people/met some people you'd know how to spot people with such disabilities and not be so damning and ignorant of their situation. (which is you being a bigot)
Also I've commented already about the vast potential sarah has as a character.
-A possible best friend to Clementine (two females who grow to be equals in survival even if one needs to slowly learn to be so.) Clementine Never had a best friend to form a relationship with that was near her age. Everyone is ALWAYS older than her. Watching them survive and learn would have been fantastic. Her friendship between Duck and Ben was only briefly glimpsed through the eyes of Lee.
-Overcoming her disabilities and handicaps to survive.
-Being the daughter of a doctor
-A character who was Jane's antithesis of "Your better off alone/being cold is good". Sarah could have been clementine's glimpse of normalcy, of someone who sees the world as a better place than it is.
-An Emotionally charged death and Clementine Losing a friend she actually actively worked on having a meaningful relationship.
Her potential was goddamn immense and I find it incredibly sad that I have to spell this out to you when Carley was atleast given a respectful and meaningful death and life extension in Season 1 but Sarah suffered from just bad writing on Telltale's part.
Your pulling at pathetic straws.
EDIT: I checked and she actually says this even if you aren't her friend. So this shows that she's loyal and selfless no matter what. It was not the same as when Carlos was getting beaten, she was not cowering or shouting it out randomly, it was a specific action meant for a specific result.
You can't invalidate this just because the risk doesn't seem like a big deal. When Clem questions her about Carlos "telling her he's disappointed", she says "Yeah it sucks". This is treated more as humorous moment, but it still points out that Sarah is extremely sensitive. This along with all the other information we have about Sarah and her dad indicates that her helping Clem in spite of her dad is a big deal to her. Just because it doesn't have a risk to her physical safety doesn't mean it wasn't a hard thing for her to do.
And that is a valid character trait that contributes to the dimension of her character.
That is a valid point, but this is more to do with the direction/execution of the story rather than a statement on Sarah's character. She never is given the chance to do anything else. The entire episode 4 is focused on painting her as completely hopeless and trying to convince you to leave her behind.
But the treatment of Sarah in the story does not even have anything to do with this. Telltale does not try to emphasize this aspect of the argument, the closest they get to this is the whole thing with Jane and her sister, but even that is only BARELY pointed out to have anything to do with Sarah. It never involves or centers specifically around Sarah. It's always all about Jane's issues.
Not only is that completely disrespectful to Sarah as a character, it is oversimplification and understatement of this complicated issue that does not do justice to any of the themes or characters.
If you were putin, you'd agree with him 140%
Reading is good for you.
This IS a forum btw. Intended for reading.
I guess we can agree to disagree on the first point. It just seemed like a normal reaction from a person to speak up when something happens that they don't like. I understand that it makes Sarah loyal. I don't see how it makes her brave.
But it apparently wasn't a hard thing for her to do because she does it regardless of whether or not Clem befriends her. She does it as a way to get Clem to leave her alone. This makes it seem like it's not such a big deal to Sarah.
The conversation we've been having is about how Sarah's complexity telegraphed to fans of Sarah an outcome to her story that was different than the one that ended up occurring. In the case of her tendency to escape from reality and hiding in a fantasy world, that is precisely what did happen to her. So I don't see how that bolsters your argument.
It isn't just in episode 4 that this happens, though. Sarah loses her optimism quite easily in previous encounters with her. And so the fact that she became absolutely pessimistic to the point of hopelessness should come to no surprise.
The only thing I truly hate about the episode was Sarah's death. I mean it did make sense of you left her the first time you got the option because its just shows how much you didn't like Sarah or wanted her to live. If you save her it did made sense, I mean, Clem tried her best, but her anxiety kicked in and she was Clem's friend (if you chose to be friends with Sarah). So of course, the slap to her face made sense and Clem's expression being mad was logical. She was gonna lose another friend, not to some walker or somebody, but worst to herself. Also, after losing so many friends, Clem was tried of losing, so yeah she was a bit pies when she slapped Sarah. But I do wish you had the chance to like say directly to her " Hey, I'm sorry for slapping you." But I believe it was most likely hinted that Clem was upset having to slap her. Later on, you're faced with the same decision: saving or leaving Sarah. Now, if you leave her, no else jumps down and save, its just, "Hey everyone, she just died, but at least Jane is alive." The only one who gave a damn was Clem. Here is the icing on the cake, if you do try to save her, Bonnie will try to hold off the walkers while Jane tries to save Sarah. But when walkers about to kill her and Jane gets stun, Bonnie doesn't shoot the walkers, she like "Well, she's dead." Okay, fine, maybe she ran out of ammo, but Clem had some ammo with her. Why couldn't Clem get up and shoot the walkers, then Sarah would have been saved. In addition, when Sarah says to Jane she can't move even though she lifted part of the wreckage off her, it means we need more people to jump down and try to save her. I mean its not a big deal, Jane eventually got back up to the Deck, so why couldn't anyone jump down and save her. This just makes me feel that her death was cheap, that or Telltale was trying to make everyone except Jane, Clem, Kenny, and Rebecca seem like cowards. I mean, Telltale could have just killed her off in episode 5, but she could have died like taking a bullet for Clem. I mean I'm fine with having her death, she's gone, there is nothing they could do, but at least make her death make sense instead of chopping her off. Even Nick's death made sense because we don't know how he died so its up to assumption. But in regards, I think episode 4 was a fine episode. I liked that Luke was acting like a whining brat because it made sensed. He been through a lot, he lost his friends and he not in the right state of mind. Plus, I can relate to Luke becoming a brat because I to do become like that if I'm stressed out enough. See he is still a kid, so he doesn't really have full control of his emotions. On the other hand, I liked Kenny's character in this episode as well. It makes sense for him to be pissed at everyone in the beginning cause he is once again losing another loved one and he just tried of everyone treating him as some kind of crazy dog. Also, I loved the part where he was like "just because you're a kid and everyone will just be happy with whatever you do," which helps remind the player, you're not a kid, you're living, so you'll be treated like everyone else for the most part. But I didn't get him saying its my fault that Sarita was dying if I didn't chop off her arm. But I'll let that slide cause he was not in his right state of mind. I'm also cool with Nick's death, I mean he was shot in the shoulder, bleeding. As well, he was running around finding help, so I can only guess walkers smelled the blood and went after him. He was probably running towards the hole in the fence but got stuck due to his shoulder, so he was frantically trying to escape, but got bit. So fine, that the life of the walking dead, people we love gets kill in the blue in awful, unceremoniously ways. But I kinda also wished for Sarita to talk in this episode, but fine, that's fine. Anyway, I think everything made sense in this episode besides a few stuff like Luke not giving a crap for Nick or having more choice freedom. Anyway, I'll give this episode a 8/10, not my favorite episode, but not the worst episode either. My favorite is the first episode.
EDIT: The only thing I did not like was Sarah's death, Luke's disregard of Sarah's illness and Luke not really caring for Nick . Other than that the episode is fine. The only reason why I did not like Sarah's death was that she could have been saved. But I do think that the group did feel sad for Sarah, it was just all the chaos and the baby on the way made everyone have to move on Sarah's death, so I give Telltale that. But Clem, if you look closely at her expression after Jane leaves, looks very upset about everything that happened that day, even if you tell Luke you're fine, she still looks upset.
Sarah's death , who was going to die from any choice you make, pissed me off... It's as if she was just a waste of character..
WTF is up with NICK'S DEATH!!! No detail information on how it happened.... What the fuck is the point in saving nick from episode 1 then?
Russian people? Did they take over USA? That Nerdy Russian kid... it errks me to see this guy in the game....
This game is way too negative...
The thing I've noticed the most about Season 2 is that we all thought it was pretty good until around now, until the build up that has been happening just finally collapsed on itself without much payout. We all thought the build up was great... and suddenly now here we are at the second to last episode, an episode that for some reason takes more focus on Jane, an exact Molly copy right down to the sister--- (plus I recall fans wondering if this WAS Molly when we first saw her, so it would've been easier and more interesting in a way to just make it be Molly)--- anyways. This episode, taking more focus on Jane than characters we were encouraged to like at the beginning like Nick and the cabin group.... it feels very dry. I didn't flinch when anyone died, even Rebecca. I didn't care too much when anyone died. The only character I was sad that died this entire season was Pete, because at least everyone was upset.
I've been very optimistic about this season. Yes, it's better than most other games, and I was hoping all the build up would lead to something great. But looking into Episode 5... I am not looking forward to anything. I am not eager to find out anything. Everyone is dead and all is hopeless, there's barely anything that can be done in Episode 5 that would tie everything up unless everyone literally sat down and discussed for a long time everything that everyone's been ignoring with no trace that anything's wrong with ignoring it. "Oh and Christa." ... "Oh and Sarah." ... "BTW Nick." "400 Days, a DLC everyone bought just to have them show up in one episode then never be seen again I guess."
There's so much that the build up failed on, and now here we sit with a bunch of broken ends that will never be tied up, and a main character who couldn't remind me less of the one Lee taught. She takes more value in saying Shit like Lee did than she does anything else he ever taught her.
The first few episodes were great because their purpose was to build up to now. And here we are, and everything is gone. There was no point of Carver's group chasing these people, because unless Luke has something very important and plot-twisting to admit at the end... then what else is there to look forward to? Who Clem follows into Season 3? Cuz I can promise that Lee's legacy, the money maker, Clem, isn't going to kick it by the end of the next episode.