Yeah exactly, it was kinda ignored in episode 3 and people were looking up for episode 4 to make everything alright. Well the hubs came back with optional conversations (kinda), but that's pretty much it.
It's great to see how this thread in a week got double the amounts of comments that my thread got in 2+ weeks. Also the amount of thumbs ups… more. It goes to show that the title of my thread is becoming a fact, the problems are just way too hard to ignore.
I definitely see where you're coming from. When Sarita & Nick died I wasn't sad so much as I was pissed off. Then afterwards after Sarah died too & each of their deaths were so meaningless it really struck me & now I just can't even. They had SO MUCH POTENTIAL.
I mean, even if it is extremely well-written it still can't take back what happened in episode 4.
I've gotten to the point where i j… moreust don't care about anything big happening. When i saw zombie Nick i said "meh, shitty writers", when Sarah died at the observation i said "meh, shitty writers". I know that if they kill Kenny in episode 5 i'll feel like shit and probably tear up the moment that I play but i'll probably snap back to reality again and say the same "meh, shitty writers" and then wonder if this is what Vanaman first had in mind as canon for what Kenny was supposed to become when they deleted the "death sounds" in season 1.
xD Good to know i can get a laugh out of some people. Read the whole thing and all i can say is I completely agree with everything you mentioned. Episode 1 Set a good story, Episode 2 threw that story out the window, Episode 3 dug the grave and Episode 4 buried the season.
If people are just scanning this thread and think were just bitching about nothing,were not,Season 2 started off very good and got excellent fast with 'A House Divided ep 2' .The atmosphere at night when Clem has been accepted in,it's dark outside,most of the people are asleep in the cabin...it's brilliant storytelling and lets the player feel a little relaxed and get settled in. Bonding with Sarah upstairs and trying to figure out which member of the cabin group you trust,it was just brilliant!
Carver being introduced as someone from the cabin groups past was another great thing because you was never truly sure whether he was telling the truth or the group had a secret hid and should you trust them,this all felt tight and nicely written with hardly any negative points,infact i rate episode 2 a perfect 10,because it was right up there with the season one episodes and introduced well thought out long remebered characters who different fans could relate to.in a nutshell the Cabin group were a excellent addition to the game. Sarita/Sarah and Nick stood out here because of how well the game let them talk and tell their stories,something so innocent like Sarita and Sarah putting up the christmas decorations added so much value to the game and episode,when there is non stop action it becomes corny and hard to believe...
So for the first 2 episodes everything was going really well,and credit to Nick and Telltale for solid,well thought out writing,the only complaints around that time was that it was maybe a little short compared to season one episodes....no negative characters,no weak scripts,no hate,just love.
Episode 3 changed a lot and wanted to rush through it's story sometimes leaving the player to wonder why it was happening so fast,but still had a lot of solid elements to it,the hardware store is like something out of Dawn of the dead and im sure long term fans could appreciate it. The Reggie death could of been drawn out over a number of mistakes over the whole episode instead he is killed off fast for not supervising the kids prune a tree.....
although the episode was a little all over the place with the plot and story,it made up for it with the ending with Sarita,Kenny and Carver...most of the characters were well written but IMO Jane was written exatly the same as Molly and too cartoonish talking to the characters like they were thick,even though she was meant as the survivalist,the characters have survived before now and actually know a thing or to about surviving...Mike was a welcome addition to the cast,and had some good lines.overall it was just a slight blip but again another gem of an episode...
episode 4 ...made me not care about episode 5,i wish they would of ended the season at the point where you stood frozen with the axe with Sarita...nothing they could write now can make me depressed over a choice...there is no comeback from that...A DLC of the Cabin group i'd buy in a heartbeat...but as it stands right now they have killed off all but 1 member because of horrendous writing,ive never seen so much negativitiy here,and im positive lol is there any way they could 'patch' this? i know it's a stupid thought,but i didn't think it would be wrote so bad so fast. Are the 2 new writers not fans of Sarah and Nick?..fine...but don't treat your paying customers as fools,this is the only episode ive rated so poorly,the IGN rating was correct and should wake Telltale up.
"They build up characters like Sarah and Nick to be complex and interesting."
LuLz
Those two were neither. Mostly through no fault of their own, they were blatantly just not cut out for the zombie stuff. They both did extremely dumb stuff all throughout the season. Did you think Ben was going to survive season 1 being as dumb as he was? Everyone can't survive this.
TTG did a good job with this episode. I can't wait until the next one. You will play it the day it comes out, too.
"They build up characters like Sarah and Nick to be complex and interesting."
LuLz
Those two were neither. Mostly through no fault of … moretheir own, they were blatantly just not cut out for the zombie stuff. They both did extremely dumb stuff all throughout the season. Did you think Ben was going to survive season 1 being as dumb as he was? Everyone can't survive this.
TTG did a good job with this episode. I can't wait until the next one. You will play it the day it comes out, too.
They had a chance, but they never got it, that's the issue, if Telltale is giving you a an option to save them, then they shouldn't be in invisible nobodies that don't do anything once you save them, some pay off would certainly be nice. Ben probably wasn't going to survive Season 1, but he got some kind of interaction with Lee and felt like he was there in the group, and had some genuine pay off with his arc with standing up to Kenny.
"They build up characters like Sarah and Nick to be complex and interesting."
LuLz
Those two were neither. Mostly through no fault of … moretheir own, they were blatantly just not cut out for the zombie stuff. They both did extremely dumb stuff all throughout the season. Did you think Ben was going to survive season 1 being as dumb as he was? Everyone can't survive this.
TTG did a good job with this episode. I can't wait until the next one. You will play it the day it comes out, too.
I don't think "complex and interesting" and "expert survivalists" are synonymous. I would argue that Sarah and Nick are far more interesting characters than, for instance, Jane or Molly were, despite not being "cut out for zombie stuff". And like J-Master states, it's not the fact that they didn't survive Season 2 that most people are bemoaning, but the fact that whereas Ben's death scene clearly had thought and emotional impetus behind it, Nick and Sarah were treated with all the care and nuance of a pest controller exterminating cockroaches.
And I don't think the issue is whether or not people are going to be playing the next episode, but whether they will be buying the next season pass.
"They build up characters like Sarah and Nick to be complex and interesting."
LuLz
Those two were neither. Mostly through no fault of … moretheir own, they were blatantly just not cut out for the zombie stuff. They both did extremely dumb stuff all throughout the season. Did you think Ben was going to survive season 1 being as dumb as he was? Everyone can't survive this.
TTG did a good job with this episode. I can't wait until the next one. You will play it the day it comes out, too.
Oh Yeah, That brings up a good question:
Just What really happened between the cabin people and Carver? I know Carver possibly raped Rebecca and was violent, cruel and pretty strict But I was also wondering why THESE Specific individuals Were the one who banded together and left. And Because they did, How did they escape? I thought there'd be some great reveal on how they caused someone's death and one of them was responsible and the others were accomplices and witnesses but It really led to nothing.
It would have been great if the reason Carver was such a dictator was because he was paranoid of Said Death caused by the Cabin people and When that gets revealed, You have to choose to help Carver and the 400 days Cast (who through hubs can see Carver's side of the story), or the Cabin group (but no one knows about your involvement except for say Bonnie or Sarah). And even then a fall out causes Carver to die at the end of the chapter and you hold that responsibility of your involvement.
We don't know anything about the Cabin folk and Carver was so cartoonish and basically a rehash of all the other dictator ruler in TWD Comic series I wanted to cringe.
If people are just scanning this thread and think were just bitching about nothing,were not,Season 2 started off very good and got excellent… more fast with 'A House Divided ep 2' .The atmosphere at night when Clem has been accepted in,it's dark outside,most of the people are asleep in the cabin...it's brilliant storytelling and lets the player feel a little relaxed and get settled in. Bonding with Sarah upstairs and trying to figure out which member of the cabin group you trust,it was just brilliant!
Carver being introduced as someone from the cabin groups past was another great thing because you was never truly sure whether he was telling the truth or the group had a secret hid and should you trust them,this all felt tight and nicely written with hardly any negative points,infact i rate episode 2 a perfect 10,because it was right up there with the season one episodes and introduced well thought out long remebered characters who different fans … [view original content]
It's called constructive criticism. The OP made a very valid series of points that he put a LOT of thought into. Saying 'whiner' as a counter is an utterly moronic response. It shows that the people calling him (or her) a whiner are just rampant fanboys who don't want to hear any valid complaints about the lack of thought put into this episode.
Deal with it
Btw, saying 'deal with it' isnt hypocritical. 'Deal with it' is being said to people who enter a debate with an insult instead of giving some reasonable counter-argument. As soon as you have to insult the other person to defend your side of an argument, you've already lost.
Exactly. There wasnt any actual choice in the first season either in the end, but at least there was more of an illusion that your choices mattered in each episode. Which makes for a much more enjoyable storyline. They were actually doing a pretty good job in the first two episodes of season 2 also, and episode 3 did give the possibility of stuff that you did in that episode might actually mean something, but episode 4 seemed phoned in - dismissing buildup from 3 episodes on a number of levels. Sarah being the biggest problem, because everything that happened in season 2 and 3 might as well have not happened - no need to teach her how to use a gun - no need to be her friend or not. Nick being the other problem - all the promises to Pete amounted to nothing and werent even referenced in episode 4. Even if he died onscreen, that would have been SOMETHING. Like if they gave an option to either save Nick or save Sarah... it would have been the illusion of choice even if both would still be dead by season 5.
Also I still think there should have been the possibility of saving Sarah in episode 4, just for her to get shot by the russians in the beginning of episode 5. That would have still given Episode 4 some illusion of choice - especially if she could have been saved in episode 4 by throwing her the gun for her to actually use it.
This is a good point. I'm not discouraged by all this "turn for the worse" and darkness in the game. I'm bothered by the fact that it's poin… moretless. Darkness for the sake of realism isn't even being emphasized as a theme, it's just an excuse for the poor writing. I can't excuse the fact that they completely wasted multiple characters and plot points for no reason.
I'm sorry, but episode 1 of season 2 really wasn't well received. There was plenty of complaining. A lot of it centered around 'poor writing' and lack of 'character development' despite us only meeting the cabin group for the last . . . what was it? 40 - 60 minutes? Can't get a whole lot of character development in during that time, really, especially when the focus is on Clem with her being the player character and not on them, meaning they're not always present for even that 40 - 60 minute playtime. And this is discounting the fact that the cabin group is comprised of several people. 7 total, if my math is correct.
Episode 2 you might have a point about though. I honestly can't remember what it was like then, aside from remembering a few complaints.
Edit: And there's one key point regarding the new writers not being fans of Sarah and Nick. Do you think that Nick Breckon, with being the lead writer, doesn't supervise the writing of the episodes? Because I can guarantee he does.
If people are just scanning this thread and think were just bitching about nothing,were not,Season 2 started off very good and got excellent… more fast with 'A House Divided ep 2' .The atmosphere at night when Clem has been accepted in,it's dark outside,most of the people are asleep in the cabin...it's brilliant storytelling and lets the player feel a little relaxed and get settled in. Bonding with Sarah upstairs and trying to figure out which member of the cabin group you trust,it was just brilliant!
Carver being introduced as someone from the cabin groups past was another great thing because you was never truly sure whether he was telling the truth or the group had a secret hid and should you trust them,this all felt tight and nicely written with hardly any negative points,infact i rate episode 2 a perfect 10,because it was right up there with the season one episodes and introduced well thought out long remebered characters who different fans … [view original content]
Actually the stranger did not come out of nowehre, and was not inconsistent with the previous episodes.
Heck, the stranger's car was even in the prologue of the game. Then again in episode 2. Then he was again featured in episode 3 on the walkie talkie. Then Lee saw him briefly in episode 4.
The whole thing was leading up to episode 5.
And Chuck's death served a purpose at least - he saved Clementine. And he lived long enough to get Lee to train her properly on the train. Chucks death was nothing like Nick's. Nick had a bunch of buildup with no purpose. Chuck's buildup had purpose.
The stranger at the end of the first season came out of nowhere and was in no way consistent with the previous episodes. Kenny's death in th… moree alley when Ben falls to his death made no sense. The fourth episode was full of wasted potential (crawford). Chuck's Death was as unsatisfying as Nick's Death was.
While other write LONG comments and you poor TT247 have to read them.I want to remind you that episode 3 and episode 4 were written not by Nick Breckon.
I really do not hate or attempt to show disrespect to Pierre shorrete and the new guys as they are respected writers.
Pierre's POV of things of everything was completely different from Nick's POV.His style is dark and oppression like when it comes to a grime story so Pierre wrote an unpredictable and dark story that nothing will go according to plan .His lack of view and and development for the characters came from his lack of caring as he didn't create them so he wouldn't bother to change or kill them off (smart move) so might as well add Jane and Mike and kill off Carver in spectacular way.As he finished the episode he said it's Nick Breckon's problem now to continue with the story Development as he is a talented writer as well.
But Telltale made a dumb move by hiring a noob writer Eric stripe. Another famous writer JT Petty(Who basically is a soulless but creative bastard who wrote outlast)So his view of things is completely different from Pierre, as he doesn't like useless Character and loose ends so they move them out of the way by killing them.He likes to introduce ruthless freaks (one with tattoo on his face and the other with a brace on his leg) and more powerful bad guys(someone had a motherfucking shotgun) who we can't understand like Motherfucking Russians.He likes to put sex in the story (as he basically wrote outlast).So basically there's no mercy nor relief in his writing with a major cliffhanger that anything can happen after it , did I mention he wrote outlast
The noob obviously is the one who poorly developed the characters.
Ouch.... awesome post,it begs the question ...why in the hell would you trust something like TWD to new writers mid season? too many projects,and they probably thought NO ONE can screw this up!
While other write LONG comments and you poor TT247 have to read them.I want to remind you that episode 3 and episode 4 were written not by N… moreick Breckon.
I really do not hate or attempt to show disrespect to Pierre shorrete and the new guys as they are respected writers.
Pierre's POV of things of everything was completely different from Nick's POV.His style is dark and oppression like when it comes to a grime story so Pierre wrote an unpredictable and dark story that nothing will go according to plan .His lack of view and and development for the characters came from his lack of caring as he didn't create them so he wouldn't bother to change or kill them off (smart move) so might as well add Jane and Mike and kill off Carver in spectacular way.As he finished the episode he said it's Nick Breckon's problem now to continue with the story Development as he is a talented writer as well.
But Telltale made a dumb move by hiring a noob writer… [view original content]
i would hope he does,but having just played episode 4,doubt it very much. not everyone can write TWD properly and with care,anyone can churn out an episode with sex,and russians,who cares......fans care
I'm sorry, but episode 1 of season 2 really wasn't well received. There was plenty of complaining. A lot of it centered around 'poor writing… more' and lack of 'character development' despite us only meeting the cabin group for the last . . . what was it? 40 - 60 minutes? Can't get a whole lot of character development in during that time, really, especially when the focus is on Clem with her being the player character and not on them, meaning they're not always present for even that 40 - 60 minute playtime. And this is discounting the fact that the cabin group is comprised of several people. 7 total, if my math is correct.
Episode 2 you might have a point about though. I honestly can't remember what it was like then, aside from remembering a few complaints.
Edit: And there's one key point regarding the new writers not being fans of Sarah and Nick. Do you think that Nick Breckon, with being the lead writer, doesn't supervise the writing of the episodes? Because I can guarantee he does.
I don't know how to respond to you but I can say that
Nick Breckon already plotted whole season 2 in his mind and TTG knew that so they decided to randomize the writer and make the story explicitly unpredictable(basically TWD) and episode 4 was really unpredictable so it's kinda screwed up in Nick's mind but I think in episdoe 5 he'll fix and try to link the story to his original idea.
Ouch.... awesome post,it begs the question ...why in the hell would you trust something like TWD to new writers mid season? too many projects,and they probably thought NO ONE can screw this up!
but the damage has been pretty much done,he can always write something like 'Lilly comes back ,saves Clem and Kenny from a horde' and it would get praises but episode 4 was horrific,and won't be forgotten in a hurry.
I don't know how to respond to you but I can say that
Nick Breckon already plotted whole season 2 in his mind and TTG knew that so they d… moreecided to randomize the writer and make the story explicitly unpredictable(basically TWD) and episode 4 was really unpredictable so it's kinda screwed up in Nick's mind but I think in episdoe 5 he'll fix and try to link the story to his original idea.
If what I am saying is true .Nick Breckon would invest his soul and life at the episode and makes it a three hour game play as he makes it so memorable and epic episode 4 would be easily forgotten and hits THE GOTY EDITION.
I hope so , episode 5 is already finished and I heard they are making the trailer.
but the damage has been pretty much done,he can always write something like 'Lilly comes back ,saves Clem and Kenny from a horde' and it would get praises but episode 4 was horrific,and won't be forgotten in a hurry.
xD Good to know i can get a laugh out of some people. Read the whole thing and all i can say is I completely agree with everything you menti… moreoned. Episode 1 Set a good story, Episode 2 threw that story out the window, Episode 3 dug the grave and Episode 4 buried the season.
i would hope he does,but having just played episode 4,doubt it very much. not everyone can write TWD properly and with care,anyone can churn out an episode with sex,and russians,who cares......fans care
your right we don't fully know if Sarah was autistic,but we have had a lot of input from fans who are who know a lot more about this than me, i just found Sarah utterly beautiful as a person,it's only when i started seeing threads on here that i saw more that people saw something else with her,i didn't really understand that she could be austistic at first,i thought that was something else, tbh i don't think it matters a great deal but i loved how fans stuck up for her,i just felt a connection with her whole character and even with her dad Carlos.
i would hope he does,but having just played episode 4,doubt it very much. not everyone can write TWD properly and with care,anyone can churn out an episode with sex,and russians,who cares......fans care
i would hope he does,but having just played episode 4,doubt it very much. not everyone can write TWD properly and with care,anyone can churn out an episode with sex,and russians,who cares......fans care
First thing I’d like to point out is that what Sarah had most likely wasn’t a panic attack but a meltdown which is very common for people with autism (and I am very sure she is, in fact, autistic). Meltdowns are usually triggered by a so-called sensory overload which makes people overly sensitive to noises, textures, bright lights and also touch, so in this case slapping her, should have been shown to induce a crossing of boundaries she set up for herself while cowering on the floor. In real life this would have done more harm than good.
Since I followed your discussion about Sarah, I, as someone who actually is disabled, found the way you described her as nothing but a burden, a liability, and someone who was determined to die from the very beginning, very offensive.
If characters and, judging by the way you worded your opinions, actual people even dare to slightly differ from what is believed to be the standard way to live, to you we immediately lose our point, our justification to simply exist .
If we dare to not serve your needs for once, we lose our significance to you because what you (assuming you are not facing any kind of oppression, please correct me if I’m wrong) take for granted, for us, is a mere compensation for acting the way society wants us to and something that can be taken away from us at any time. At least that is what society and you (in regards to Sarah) like to think. But what you don’t get is that we do not exist to serve your needs for we are our own, independent human beings. You simply do not own the right to call us a liability, useless people whose lives are a single tragedy for not even us, but you to suffer; people who were better off dead because anyone, according to your statements, who can not instantly cope with traumatizing situations thrown upon them, have lost the will to keep on living. And why continue being a burden to others, right? Why be a burden to the people who patronize, oppress, and (if we’re lucky) even kill us to free us from the living tragedy we are, right?
I simply do not care if what you say is about a video game character or an actual person because ultimately your opinions remain the same and would not differ if I were to face you in a high-stakes scenario in real-life.
The thing is, even though I’m angry, I do not intend to be disrespectful towards you - it just astounds me that you would go to such great lengths to argue what a liability a disabled character was and how natural it was in your eyes for her to die.
Why is it so awfully significant for you to prove this harmful belief to people who identified with Sarah, who live with mental illness and disability themselves? Why does it satisfy you so much to see yet another small spark of representation destroyed and wasted for already prejudiced people to celebrate it? And why are you so defensive, arguing for days on end, over something that doesn’t seem to affect you in any way personally?
I am tired to even have to prove that people like me have an actual reason to exist and survive, no matter the circumstances, because that is not what a human life is: to constantly ponder, to balance the pros and cons to decide if it is in fact worth living and saving. I am so done with remaining silent when people like you never do. I am done with overlooking and ignoring things that actively add to that harmful stigma of a belief that anyone who cannot pull their own weight is considered less human, with less rights, and little to no endorsement to speak up for themselves. I am done with people who believe they’re sacrificing themselves by even looking at us, even though they look down at us from above; by speaking to us, yelling so loud so they don’t have to listen to our answers; by saving us, by pulling us from the ground so fast and unexpected, only to pull away their hands if they see us stumble.
Where Telltale could have taken this chance to for once depict a disabled character in a positive light for you to see how and who we really are, it was wasted to confirm the already existing prejudices instead of striving to make a change.
I apologize that I'm coming off as condescending. But the fact of the matter is that even someone who has had first-hand experience with wha… moret Sarah struggles with isn't necessarily privy to all the information there is to know about it. I don't know what the other user knows. It's very possible that the other user is fully aware of everything I've said and has good reasons for disbelieving in it. I just wanted to make sure that we had a common knowledge base to work off of.
As for my perceived insensitivity when talking about neuroatypical people, I apologize for that as well. My intention was to talk about Sarah as a sad, wounded person as that is how I saw her. And I don't see her that way because she's neuroatypical. I saw her that way because she's just lost the most important figure in her life in one of the worst possible ways imaginable. Even normally functioning psyches are shattered by the type of trauma she's experienced. That sh… [view original content]
Whether or not Nick does anything differently in the series, you have to make a choice as to whether or not he dies in Ep.2 or 4. Alvin could die in Ep.2 or 3. When have we had any real sway over a characters death, even if they still die in another episode? Ben, maybe. Now let's compare, 1 death we have control over - 2 deaths we have control over. There's my example. It's still more, even if only by one.
It kinda struck me how interesting it would've been if Rebecca had not been killed off. In Zombie Apocalypse portrayels, there is this thing of either A) the mother dies, the child dies or C) somehow both die.
Letting Rebecca keep her child would've been, in a way, innovative for the genre.
Sadly, the meds you could steal made no impact to.. you know.. cure Rebecca's infection (the cough seemed to indicate).
But others have done a great job to explain how and why so much potential was given away, so I won't do that as well, I think.
I just hope TTG consider this fanbase advice... for Ep5, Season 3 and all the other games in production. Hopefully they'll focus more and do something about that writer chaos
Thank you for doing this. I am glad that I was not the only one who was just broken by the atrocious butchering of potential.
Also, Jane … moreleaving the game alive. Seriously. They kill Sarita, they kill Nick, they kill Sarah, they kill Rebecca. All who had potential but they were too lazy to explore them. But rather than end Jane the Original Character's involvement in the plot with a death (could have been written to punish her assumptions that one can survive alone, creating moral contrast for the player), they refuse to kill her and just let her walk away alive. Wow. Molly The Original Character 2.0, huh. Yeah. Thanks.
For some reason I felt the writers of this episode were actually valiant fans of Kenny (judging from all the excessive badass-building and drama that is thrown his way, plus his active involvement with the plot that leaves deuteragonist Luke no space to develop) and probably very fond of characters like Molly who dance on… [view original content]
I love your text. Thanks for typing that down.
Let's just convince TTG to declare Ep4 as a nightmare Clementine has at some point and re-do it. Since that's not really an option, we can just hope TTG acknowledges their mistakes (at least internally) and learns something sigh
At last I decided to join this discussion as well because I feel very strongly about Amid The Ruins and I think what happened to its charact… moreers is very problematic.
The thing about Sarah is that having her, as a disabled female character in a video game, to me, was simpy groundbreaking. It's just something I have never had before and to finally get some actual representation of my own disability, I can not even begin to describe how happy it made me. To see her being treated with actual respect in the the former episodes is so rare for in media people like me are seen as the greatest liabilty there is. I have never seen a disabled or mentally ill character survive without either being dsrespected and hated, becoming the villian, or simply being killed off for the sake of other characters.
We are thrown under the bus constantly, being left to die or slapped and screamed at in trailers for reacting to what society, survivor’s groups, and wr… [view original content]
I think I'm going to agree with the OP. The second season has been a real let down from the start, not only because we have to play as a child who is hamfisted inserted in all kinds of situations when young strong guys are available. It doesn't make sense. But I digress; the really big problem is in the story and that there is no clear focus, which the OP already pointed out. Another problem is that a lot of backstory is simply ignored - How did Kenny survive? What happened with the people from 400 Days, including those not playable?
I think one problem is that TTG tries too hard to please the crowd. Everyone yells "Let Kenny survive!" - and Kenny survives. "We wanna play as Clem!" And we get to play as Clem (to my great dismay). It would have been better for everyone involved if TTG had set a story based on season 1 and simply worked from that instead of the fans. In other words, draw a map from reality instead of trying to change reality to fit a preexisting map.
I sincerely hope that this means Christa will return to conclude the story. It would explain why the hints at what Clem learned from Christa (self-surgery, for one) and the quest to find her were neglected after episode 2. I guess Breckon cares about resolving Clem's storyline with her female guardian, whereas the other two writers weren't informed as to how important Christa would actually be.
Yes I hope so anything can happen in an episode.
If what I am saying is true .Nick Breckon would invest his soul and life at the episode … moreand makes it a three hour game play as he makes it so memorable and epic episode 4 would be easily forgotten and hits THE GOTY EDITION.
I hope so , episode 5 is already finished and I heard they are making the trailer.
So in other words you're telling them to deal with your complaints......but you can't deal with telltale not caring anymore. Yeah his insult was wrong but that doesn't change the hypocrisy of a complainer telling someone to deal with anything. Sorry but that's just how I see it.
It's called constructive criticism. The OP made a very valid series of points that he put a LOT of thought into. Saying 'whiner' as a count… moreer is an utterly moronic response. It shows that the people calling him (or her) a whiner are just rampant fanboys who don't want to hear any valid complaints about the lack of thought put into this episode.
Deal with it
Btw, saying 'deal with it' isnt hypocritical. 'Deal with it' is being said to people who enter a debate with an insult instead of giving some reasonable counter-argument. As soon as you have to insult the other person to defend your side of an argument, you've already lost.
Comments
Yeah exactly, it was kinda ignored in episode 3 and people were looking up for episode 4 to make everything alright. Well the hubs came back with optional conversations (kinda), but that's pretty much it.
I definitely see where you're coming from. When Sarita & Nick died I wasn't sad so much as I was pissed off. Then afterwards after Sarah died too & each of their deaths were so meaningless it really struck me & now I just can't even. They had SO MUCH POTENTIAL.
This is going to take me decades to read with my 3rd Grade reading level. XD I'll grab a couple drinks for this.
this made me laugh out loud, good job!
xD Good to know i can get a laugh out of some people. Read the whole thing and all i can say is I completely agree with everything you mentioned. Episode 1 Set a good story, Episode 2 threw that story out the window, Episode 3 dug the grave and Episode 4 buried the season.
Telltale is the new EA or Activision. For those who played Mass effect 3...you know what i'm talking about!!
If people are just scanning this thread and think were just bitching about nothing,were not,Season 2 started off very good and got excellent fast with 'A House Divided ep 2' .The atmosphere at night when Clem has been accepted in,it's dark outside,most of the people are asleep in the cabin...it's brilliant storytelling and lets the player feel a little relaxed and get settled in. Bonding with Sarah upstairs and trying to figure out which member of the cabin group you trust,it was just brilliant!
Carver being introduced as someone from the cabin groups past was another great thing because you was never truly sure whether he was telling the truth or the group had a secret hid and should you trust them,this all felt tight and nicely written with hardly any negative points,infact i rate episode 2 a perfect 10,because it was right up there with the season one episodes and introduced well thought out long remebered characters who different fans could relate to.in a nutshell the Cabin group were a excellent addition to the game. Sarita/Sarah and Nick stood out here because of how well the game let them talk and tell their stories,something so innocent like Sarita and Sarah putting up the christmas decorations added so much value to the game and episode,when there is non stop action it becomes corny and hard to believe...
So for the first 2 episodes everything was going really well,and credit to Nick and Telltale for solid,well thought out writing,the only complaints around that time was that it was maybe a little short compared to season one episodes....no negative characters,no weak scripts,no hate,just love.
Episode 3 changed a lot and wanted to rush through it's story sometimes leaving the player to wonder why it was happening so fast,but still had a lot of solid elements to it,the hardware store is like something out of Dawn of the dead and im sure long term fans could appreciate it. The Reggie death could of been drawn out over a number of mistakes over the whole episode instead he is killed off fast for not supervising the kids prune a tree.....
although the episode was a little all over the place with the plot and story,it made up for it with the ending with Sarita,Kenny and Carver...most of the characters were well written but IMO Jane was written exatly the same as Molly and too cartoonish talking to the characters like they were thick,even though she was meant as the survivalist,the characters have survived before now and actually know a thing or to about surviving...Mike was a welcome addition to the cast,and had some good lines.overall it was just a slight blip but again another gem of an episode...
episode 4 ...made me not care about episode 5,i wish they would of ended the season at the point where you stood frozen with the axe with Sarita...nothing they could write now can make me depressed over a choice...there is no comeback from that...A DLC of the Cabin group i'd buy in a heartbeat...but as it stands right now they have killed off all but 1 member because of horrendous writing,ive never seen so much negativitiy here,and im positive lol is there any way they could 'patch' this? i know it's a stupid thought,but i didn't think it would be wrote so bad so fast. Are the 2 new writers not fans of Sarah and Nick?..fine...but don't treat your paying customers as fools,this is the only episode ive rated so poorly,the IGN rating was correct and should wake Telltale up.
I've enjoyed Season 2, but the OP makes a lot of valid points. Hopefully TTG won't make the same mistake when it comes to Season 3.
"They build up characters like Sarah and Nick to be complex and interesting."
LuLz
Those two were neither. Mostly through no fault of their own, they were blatantly just not cut out for the zombie stuff. They both did extremely dumb stuff all throughout the season. Did you think Ben was going to survive season 1 being as dumb as he was? Everyone can't survive this.
TTG did a good job with this episode. I can't wait until the next one. You will play it the day it comes out, too.
ofc i will,i paid for it,if you liked it great,the majority didn't.
They had a chance, but they never got it, that's the issue, if Telltale is giving you a an option to save them, then they shouldn't be in invisible nobodies that don't do anything once you save them, some pay off would certainly be nice. Ben probably wasn't going to survive Season 1, but he got some kind of interaction with Lee and felt like he was there in the group, and had some genuine pay off with his arc with standing up to Kenny.
I don't think "complex and interesting" and "expert survivalists" are synonymous. I would argue that Sarah and Nick are far more interesting characters than, for instance, Jane or Molly were, despite not being "cut out for zombie stuff". And like J-Master states, it's not the fact that they didn't survive Season 2 that most people are bemoaning, but the fact that whereas Ben's death scene clearly had thought and emotional impetus behind it, Nick and Sarah were treated with all the care and nuance of a pest controller exterminating cockroaches.
And I don't think the issue is whether or not people are going to be playing the next episode, but whether they will be buying the next season pass.
Oh Yeah, That brings up a good question:
Just What really happened between the cabin people and Carver? I know Carver possibly raped Rebecca and was violent, cruel and pretty strict But I was also wondering why THESE Specific individuals Were the one who banded together and left. And Because they did, How did they escape? I thought there'd be some great reveal on how they caused someone's death and one of them was responsible and the others were accomplices and witnesses but It really led to nothing.
It would have been great if the reason Carver was such a dictator was because he was paranoid of Said Death caused by the Cabin people and When that gets revealed, You have to choose to help Carver and the 400 days Cast (who through hubs can see Carver's side of the story), or the Cabin group (but no one knows about your involvement except for say Bonnie or Sarah). And even then a fall out causes Carver to die at the end of the chapter and you hold that responsibility of your involvement.
We don't know anything about the Cabin folk and Carver was so cartoonish and basically a rehash of all the other dictator ruler in TWD Comic series I wanted to cringe.
It's called constructive criticism. The OP made a very valid series of points that he put a LOT of thought into. Saying 'whiner' as a counter is an utterly moronic response. It shows that the people calling him (or her) a whiner are just rampant fanboys who don't want to hear any valid complaints about the lack of thought put into this episode.
Deal with it
Btw, saying 'deal with it' isnt hypocritical. 'Deal with it' is being said to people who enter a debate with an insult instead of giving some reasonable counter-argument. As soon as you have to insult the other person to defend your side of an argument, you've already lost.
Exactly. There wasnt any actual choice in the first season either in the end, but at least there was more of an illusion that your choices mattered in each episode. Which makes for a much more enjoyable storyline. They were actually doing a pretty good job in the first two episodes of season 2 also, and episode 3 did give the possibility of stuff that you did in that episode might actually mean something, but episode 4 seemed phoned in - dismissing buildup from 3 episodes on a number of levels. Sarah being the biggest problem, because everything that happened in season 2 and 3 might as well have not happened - no need to teach her how to use a gun - no need to be her friend or not. Nick being the other problem - all the promises to Pete amounted to nothing and werent even referenced in episode 4. Even if he died onscreen, that would have been SOMETHING. Like if they gave an option to either save Nick or save Sarah... it would have been the illusion of choice even if both would still be dead by season 5.
Also I still think there should have been the possibility of saving Sarah in episode 4, just for her to get shot by the russians in the beginning of episode 5. That would have still given Episode 4 some illusion of choice - especially if she could have been saved in episode 4 by throwing her the gun for her to actually use it.
I'm sorry, but episode 1 of season 2 really wasn't well received. There was plenty of complaining. A lot of it centered around 'poor writing' and lack of 'character development' despite us only meeting the cabin group for the last . . . what was it? 40 - 60 minutes? Can't get a whole lot of character development in during that time, really, especially when the focus is on Clem with her being the player character and not on them, meaning they're not always present for even that 40 - 60 minute playtime. And this is discounting the fact that the cabin group is comprised of several people. 7 total, if my math is correct.
Episode 2 you might have a point about though. I honestly can't remember what it was like then, aside from remembering a few complaints.
Edit: And there's one key point regarding the new writers not being fans of Sarah and Nick. Do you think that Nick Breckon, with being the lead writer, doesn't supervise the writing of the episodes? Because I can guarantee he does.
Aidimon:
Actually the stranger did not come out of nowehre, and was not inconsistent with the previous episodes.
Heck, the stranger's car was even in the prologue of the game. Then again in episode 2. Then he was again featured in episode 3 on the walkie talkie. Then Lee saw him briefly in episode 4.
The whole thing was leading up to episode 5.
And Chuck's death served a purpose at least - he saved Clementine. And he lived long enough to get Lee to train her properly on the train. Chucks death was nothing like Nick's. Nick had a bunch of buildup with no purpose. Chuck's buildup had purpose.
While other write LONG comments and you poor TT247 have to read them.I want to remind you that episode 3 and episode 4 were written not by Nick Breckon.
I really do not hate or attempt to show disrespect to Pierre shorrete and the new guys as they are respected writers.
Pierre's POV of things of everything was completely different from Nick's POV.His style is dark and oppression like when it comes to a grime story so Pierre wrote an unpredictable and dark story that nothing will go according to plan .His lack of view and and development for the characters came from his lack of caring as he didn't create them so he wouldn't bother to change or kill them off (smart move) so might as well add Jane and Mike and kill off Carver in spectacular way.As he finished the episode he said it's Nick Breckon's problem now to continue with the story Development as he is a talented writer as well.
But Telltale made a dumb move by hiring a noob writer Eric stripe. Another famous writer JT Petty(Who basically is a soulless but creative bastard who wrote outlast)So his view of things is completely different from Pierre, as he doesn't like useless Character and loose ends so they move them out of the way by killing them.He likes to introduce ruthless freaks (one with tattoo on his face and the other with a brace on his leg) and more powerful bad guys(someone had a motherfucking shotgun) who we can't understand like Motherfucking Russians.He likes to put sex in the story (as he basically wrote outlast).So basically there's no mercy nor relief in his writing with a major cliffhanger that anything can happen after it , did I mention he wrote outlast
The noob obviously is the one who poorly developed the characters.
Ouch....
awesome post,it begs the question ...why in the hell would you trust something like TWD to new writers mid season? too many projects,and they probably thought NO ONE can screw this up!
i would hope he does,but having just played episode 4,doubt it very much. not everyone can write TWD properly and with care,anyone can churn out an episode with sex,and russians,who cares......fans care
I don't know how to respond to you but I can say that
Nick Breckon already plotted whole season 2 in his mind and TTG knew that so they decided to randomize the writer and make the story explicitly unpredictable(basically TWD) and episode 4 was really unpredictable so it's kinda screwed up in Nick's mind but I think in episdoe 5 he'll fix and try to link the story to his original idea.
but the damage has been pretty much done,he can always write something like 'Lilly comes back ,saves Clem and Kenny from a horde' and it would get praises but episode 4 was horrific,and won't be forgotten in a hurry.
Yes I hope so anything can happen in an episode.
If what I am saying is true .Nick Breckon would invest his soul and life at the episode and makes it a three hour game play as he makes it so memorable and epic episode 4 would be easily forgotten and hits THE GOTY EDITION.
I hope so , episode 5 is already finished and I heard they are making the trailer.
Just saying we dk if Sarah was autistic
Ep2 was bad?
What is bad about Russians being in it?
your right we don't fully know if Sarah was autistic,but we have had a lot of input from fans who are who know a lot more about this than me, i just found Sarah utterly beautiful as a person,it's only when i started seeing threads on here that i saw more that people saw something else with her,i didn't really understand that she could be austistic at first,i thought that was something else, tbh i don't think it matters a great deal but i loved how fans stuck up for her,i just felt a connection with her whole character and even with her dad Carlos.
I don't think he said anything about Russian being bad.
JT is the one that write an episode involving sex and MOTHERFUCKING RUSSIANS.
Didn't know you had those statistics with you
JT is the only person can write an episode involving sex and MOTHERFUCKING RUSSIANS.
First thing I’d like to point out is that what Sarah had most likely wasn’t a panic attack but a meltdown which is very common for people with autism (and I am very sure she is, in fact, autistic). Meltdowns are usually triggered by a so-called sensory overload which makes people overly sensitive to noises, textures, bright lights and also touch, so in this case slapping her, should have been shown to induce a crossing of boundaries she set up for herself while cowering on the floor. In real life this would have done more harm than good.
Since I followed your discussion about Sarah, I, as someone who actually is disabled, found the way you described her as nothing but a burden, a liability, and someone who was determined to die from the very beginning, very offensive.
If characters and, judging by the way you worded your opinions, actual people even dare to slightly differ from what is believed to be the standard way to live, to you we immediately lose our point, our justification to simply exist .
If we dare to not serve your needs for once, we lose our significance to you because what you (assuming you are not facing any kind of oppression, please correct me if I’m wrong) take for granted, for us, is a mere compensation for acting the way society wants us to and something that can be taken away from us at any time. At least that is what society and you (in regards to Sarah) like to think. But what you don’t get is that we do not exist to serve your needs for we are our own, independent human beings. You simply do not own the right to call us a liability, useless people whose lives are a single tragedy for not even us, but you to suffer; people who were better off dead because anyone, according to your statements, who can not instantly cope with traumatizing situations thrown upon them, have lost the will to keep on living. And why continue being a burden to others, right? Why be a burden to the people who patronize, oppress, and (if we’re lucky) even kill us to free us from the living tragedy we are, right?
I simply do not care if what you say is about a video game character or an actual person because ultimately your opinions remain the same and would not differ if I were to face you in a high-stakes scenario in real-life.
The thing is, even though I’m angry, I do not intend to be disrespectful towards you - it just astounds me that you would go to such great lengths to argue what a liability a disabled character was and how natural it was in your eyes for her to die.
Why is it so awfully significant for you to prove this harmful belief to people who identified with Sarah, who live with mental illness and disability themselves? Why does it satisfy you so much to see yet another small spark of representation destroyed and wasted for already prejudiced people to celebrate it? And why are you so defensive, arguing for days on end, over something that doesn’t seem to affect you in any way personally?
I am tired to even have to prove that people like me have an actual reason to exist and survive, no matter the circumstances, because that is not what a human life is: to constantly ponder, to balance the pros and cons to decide if it is in fact worth living and saving. I am so done with remaining silent when people like you never do. I am done with overlooking and ignoring things that actively add to that harmful stigma of a belief that anyone who cannot pull their own weight is considered less human, with less rights, and little to no endorsement to speak up for themselves. I am done with people who believe they’re sacrificing themselves by even looking at us, even though they look down at us from above; by speaking to us, yelling so loud so they don’t have to listen to our answers; by saving us, by pulling us from the ground so fast and unexpected, only to pull away their hands if they see us stumble.
Where Telltale could have taken this chance to for once depict a disabled character in a positive light for you to see how and who we really are, it was wasted to confirm the already existing prejudices instead of striving to make a change.
And this is what saddens me the most.
Whether or not Nick does anything differently in the series, you have to make a choice as to whether or not he dies in Ep.2 or 4. Alvin could die in Ep.2 or 3. When have we had any real sway over a characters death, even if they still die in another episode? Ben, maybe. Now let's compare, 1 death we have control over - 2 deaths we have control over. There's my example. It's still more, even if only by one.
It kinda struck me how interesting it would've been if Rebecca had not been killed off. In Zombie Apocalypse portrayels, there is this thing of either A) the mother dies,
the child dies or C) somehow both die.
Letting Rebecca keep her child would've been, in a way, innovative for the genre.
Sadly, the meds you could steal made no impact to.. you know.. cure Rebecca's infection (the cough seemed to indicate).
But others have done a great job to explain how and why so much potential was given away, so I won't do that as well, I think.
I just hope TTG consider this fanbase advice... for Ep5, Season 3 and all the other games in production. Hopefully they'll focus more and do something about that writer chaos
I love your text. Thanks for typing that down.
Let's just convince TTG to declare Ep4 as a nightmare Clementine has at some point and re-do it. Since that's not really an option, we can just hope TTG acknowledges their mistakes (at least internally) and learns something sigh
I think I'm going to agree with the OP. The second season has been a real let down from the start, not only because we have to play as a child who is hamfisted inserted in all kinds of situations when young strong guys are available. It doesn't make sense. But I digress; the really big problem is in the story and that there is no clear focus, which the OP already pointed out. Another problem is that a lot of backstory is simply ignored - How did Kenny survive? What happened with the people from 400 Days, including those not playable?
I think one problem is that TTG tries too hard to please the crowd. Everyone yells "Let Kenny survive!" - and Kenny survives. "We wanna play as Clem!" And we get to play as Clem (to my great dismay). It would have been better for everyone involved if TTG had set a story based on season 1 and simply worked from that instead of the fans. In other words, draw a map from reality instead of trying to change reality to fit a preexisting map.
I sincerely hope that this means Christa will return to conclude the story. It would explain why the hints at what Clem learned from Christa (self-surgery, for one) and the quest to find her were neglected after episode 2. I guess Breckon cares about resolving Clem's storyline with her female guardian, whereas the other two writers weren't informed as to how important Christa would actually be.
please don't kill yourself.
So in other words you're telling them to deal with your complaints......but you can't deal with telltale not caring anymore. Yeah his insult was wrong but that doesn't change the hypocrisy of a complainer telling someone to deal with anything. Sorry but that's just how I see it.