So in other words you're telling them to deal with your complaints......but you can't deal with telltale not caring anymore. Yeah his insult… more was wrong but that doesn't change the hypocrisy of a complainer telling someone to deal with anything. Sorry but that's just how I see it.
I was waiting for JANE to fall down the balcony and be screaming at the others for help. That whole loner shtick is a slap in the face to Lee and Christa and Omid and EVERYONE who took care of Clem up to this point.
Thank you for doing this. I am glad that I was not the only one who was just broken by the atrocious butchering of potential.
Also, Jane … moreleaving the game alive. Seriously. They kill Sarita, they kill Nick, they kill Sarah, they kill Rebecca. All who had potential but they were too lazy to explore them. But rather than end Jane the Original Character's involvement in the plot with a death (could have been written to punish her assumptions that one can survive alone, creating moral contrast for the player), they refuse to kill her and just let her walk away alive. Wow. Molly The Original Character 2.0, huh. Yeah. Thanks.
For some reason I felt the writers of this episode were actually valiant fans of Kenny (judging from all the excessive badass-building and drama that is thrown his way, plus his active involvement with the plot that leaves deuteragonist Luke no space to develop) and probably very fond of characters like Molly who dance on… [view original content]
Ok, I guess I can see where you're coming from. But that still doesn't really change my point. Yes, we have control over one more determinant death, but what's the point if both the characters in question barely even participate in the plot after that? Alvin disappears for almost all of episode 3, then shows up at the end to die. Nick hovers in the background of episode 3 with only a few words that are for the most part OOC, and then dies offscreen in episode 4 without a single line of dialogue.
A choice that has no effect is just window-dressing. IMO I would rather have less choices that mean more, than more choices that mean less.
Whether or not Nick does anything differently in the series, you have to make a choice as to whether or not he dies in Ep.2 or 4. Alvin coul… mored die in Ep.2 or 3. When have we had any real sway over a characters death, even if they still die in another episode? Ben, maybe. Now let's compare, 1 death we have control over - 2 deaths we have control over. There's my example. It's still more, even if only by one.
I loved episode 4 and it was my it's favorite episode this season
Character equalization, hubs, puzzles, interesting characters, good length and we explored Clementine a little more This episode had cheap deaths but every other episode has its cons as well. I know I'm going to get downvote nuked because this thread is about the cons of season 2 but oh well. Respecting other opinions, right?
Playing as Clementine isn't an inherently bad idea. But resurrecting a dead character was a pretty bad idea in hindsight. I wonder how the story would have been if, for instance, Nick was the one who undergoes Kenny 2.0's mental breakdown.
I think I'm going to agree with the OP. The second season has been a real let down from the start, not only because we have to play as a chi… moreld who is hamfisted inserted in all kinds of situations when young strong guys are available. It doesn't make sense. But I digress; the really big problem is in the story and that there is no clear focus, which the OP already pointed out. Another problem is that a lot of backstory is simply ignored - How did Kenny survive? What happened with the people from 400 Days, including those not playable?
I think one problem is that TTG tries too hard to please the crowd. Everyone yells "Let Kenny survive!" - and Kenny survives. "We wanna play as Clem!" And we get to play as Clem (to my great dismay). It would have been better for everyone involved if TTG had set a story based on season 1 and simply worked from that instead of the fans. In other words, draw a map from reality instead of trying to change reality to fit a preexisting map.
Please don't feel like you can't speak your opinion just because you don't agree! This goes for everyone seeing this thread as well. I think it would be a good thing to carry on a conversation where the episode went right, and not only where it went wrong. I just didn't really bother when first starting the topic since it was already wayyy to long to read, lol.
I loved episode 4 and it was my it's favorite episode this season
Character equalization, hubs, puzzles, interesting characters, good len… moregth and we explored Clementine a little more This episode had cheap deaths but every other episode has its cons as well. I know I'm going to get downvote nuked because this thread is about the cons of season 2 but oh well. Respecting other opinions, right?
Another thing that really annoys me is how Telltale promised Clementine would get a chance to relive her childhood with Sarah. This turned out to be a complete and utter lie. Instead, we have her acting like more of an adult than all the other characters. The more I reflect on season 2, the more disappointed I get.
I actually think the choice to play as Clementine was brilliant. IMO it only becomes a problem when it gets too "suspension of disbelief" on account of characters relying on Clem to do this and that just because you're the PC and need to do things etc.
I think there's actually plenty of ways that this could be avoided, and Clem's age could actually make the plot/her actions become more interesting. For example, maybe some characters are more likely to listen and change their minds about things since Clem is a child, so you can influence their actions more. Or maybe Clem could overhear a conversation between characters who plan to do something to another character and you can choose whether or not to act on it, who to tell about it, etc and then see the ripple of your actions that way.
I mean, there's tons of ways they could do it. There's lots of you fans out there better than me at coming up with this kind of thing, I have no doubt that Telltale can do it too, it's just disappointing that they haven't.
Playing as Clementine isn't an inherently bad idea. But resurrecting a dead character was a pretty bad idea in hindsight. I wonder how the story would have been if, for instance, Nick was the one who undergoes Kenny 2.0's mental breakdown.
That actually makes a lot of sense. Like I said before, it really does seem more and more like the writers are just being given a vague outline and allowed to take the story wherever they want it to with no clear goal in sight. As a result the entire season feels messy, and I for one still have no idea what it's exactly supposed to be about, or where the plot is headed.
While other write LONG comments and you poor TT247 have to read them.I want to remind you that episode 3 and episode 4 were written not by N… moreick Breckon.
I really do not hate or attempt to show disrespect to Pierre shorrete and the new guys as they are respected writers.
Pierre's POV of things of everything was completely different from Nick's POV.His style is dark and oppression like when it comes to a grime story so Pierre wrote an unpredictable and dark story that nothing will go according to plan .His lack of view and and development for the characters came from his lack of caring as he didn't create them so he wouldn't bother to change or kill them off (smart move) so might as well add Jane and Mike and kill off Carver in spectacular way.As he finished the episode he said it's Nick Breckon's problem now to continue with the story Development as he is a talented writer as well.
But Telltale made a dumb move by hiring a noob writer… [view original content]
I don't think "complex and interesting" and "expert survivalists" are synonymous. I would argue that Sarah and Nick are far more interesting… more characters than, for instance, Jane or Molly were, despite not being "cut out for zombie stuff". And like J-Master states, it's not the fact that they didn't survive Season 2 that most people are bemoaning, but the fact that whereas Ben's death scene clearly had thought and emotional impetus behind it, Nick and Sarah were treated with all the care and nuance of a pest controller exterminating cockroaches.
And I don't think the issue is whether or not people are going to be playing the next episode, but whether they will be buying the next season pass.
Yeah, the whole point of making this thread is that some small part of me IS holding out hope that if episode 5 isn't at least better, then at least Telltale will learn from their mistakes and make Season 3 the best it can be. (contrary to what my original post would have you believe, lol.)
I mean, this season has made mistakes that they really can't fix imo, and that's very discouraging, BUT with that said, I still have hope that if Telltale realizes their mistakes then they can improve and make Season 3 great.
I think the sudden personality change of Rebecca and Carlos in Episode 2 permanently lowered my opinion on them. Carlos in particular ended Episode 1 by sternly warning Clem not to approach his daughter, yet he's all smiles when he sees Clem return in Episode 2. Keep in mind that the group has just been under the impression that Clem was both a zombie infectee and a tool of Carver's - yet when she returns after a full day without Nick and Pete, something which would actually have proved their suspicions right, Carlos and Rebecca once again take the irrational choice and assume Clem is trustworthy.
Nick and Sarah also had interesting relationships with Clementine that changed, and hidden depths that were revealed, which made the callous disposal of them in Episode 4 feel more like it was mandated by the writers rather than actually believable.
I actually think the choice to play as Clementine was brilliant. IMO it only becomes a problem when it gets too "suspension of disbelief" on… more account of characters relying on Clem to do this and that just because you're the PC and need to do things etc.
I think there's actually plenty of ways that this could be avoided, and Clem's age could actually make the plot/her actions become more interesting. For example, maybe some characters are more likely to listen and change their minds about things since Clem is a child, so you can influence their actions more. Or maybe Clem could overhear a conversation between characters who plan to do something to another character and you can choose whether or not to act on it, who to tell about it, etc and then see the ripple of your actions that way.
I mean, there's tons of ways they could do it. There's lots of you fans out there better than me at coming up with this kind of thing, I have no doubt that Telltale can do it too, it's just disappointing that they haven't.
About Kenny's return to the plot, it felt like a weird choice. I mean, on one hand I love Kenny and was thrilled to be able to spend more time with him. But on the other hand, his character arc had a pretty solid conclusion in Season 1, compared to, say Lilly, who not only was more likely to be alive, but who also had more storytelling potential since she didn't really get much of a conclusion in S1.
I mean, you have to consider his role in the story itself. His miraculous escape from death is completely handwaved, his role/character arc at this point seems to be a rehash of season 1... Telltale really could have aimed higher than that in my opinion.
Playing as Clementine isn't an inherently bad idea. But resurrecting a dead character was a pretty bad idea in hindsight. I wonder how the story would have been if, for instance, Nick was the one who undergoes Kenny 2.0's mental breakdown.
Exactly, I thought that Carlos and Rebecca would have been MORE likely to distrust Clem as a result of what happened to Pete/Nick at the end of episode 1. It was a WTF moment back then, but again, I could have easily forgiven it if Telltale had paid more attention to similar mistakes instead of continuing to make them even worse..
I think the sudden personality change of Rebecca and Carlos in Episode 2 permanently lowered my opinion on them. Carlos in particular ended… more Episode 1 by sternly warning Clem not to approach his daughter, yet he's all smiles when he sees Clem return in Episode 2. Keep in mind that the group has just been under the impression that Clem was both a zombie infectee and a tool of Carver's - yet when she returns after a full day without Nick and Pete, something which would actually have proved their suspicions right, Carlos and Rebecca once again take the irrational choice and assume Clem is trustworthy.
Nick and Sarah also had interesting relationships with Clementine that changed, and hidden depths that were revealed, which made the callous disposal of them in Episode 4 feel more like it was mandated by the writers rather than actually believable.
Yeah, the whole situation was just badly handled and very bland imo. At least up to this point we've always been given a definite say in whether or not we choose the "survival at any cost" attitude. But everything in episode 4 was completely stacked against everyone except Jane. It's like she was just untouchable.
I was waiting for JANE to fall down the balcony and be screaming at the others for help. That whole loner shtick is a slap in the face to Lee and Christa and Omid and EVERYONE who took care of Clem up to this point.
Yes keeping them BOTH alive would have been interesting and unpredictable at this point. & I was very surprised that the meds did absolutely nothing to help.. I mean I wasn't expecting much from Telltale at that point, but the only reason I chose to take them was on the assumption that they would do their job lol.
It kinda struck me how interesting it would've been if Rebecca had not been killed off. In Zombie Apocalypse portrayels, there is this thing… more of either A) the mother dies, the child dies or C) somehow both die.
Letting Rebecca keep her child would've been, in a way, innovative for the genre.
Sadly, the meds you could steal made no impact to.. you know.. cure Rebecca's infection (the cough seemed to indicate).
But others have done a great job to explain how and why so much potential was given away, so I won't do that as well, I think.
I just hope TTG consider this fanbase advice... for Ep5, Season 3 and all the other games in production. Hopefully they'll focus more and do something about that writer chaos
I agree, playing as clementine was a logical step for the game since Clem is more defenseless than a grown adult thus: Walkers are still a huge threat and puzzles would require an extra level of thinking on her part and the story gave her an EXCELLENT starting hand with Christa and Omid being her caretaker and Christa being pregnant and Clem learning about survival and relationships the hard way. it all became a disappointment after episode 2. And We get next to NIL when it comes to puzzles except opening a can of food (which was actually ok) and hunting around for items for stitching (also ok) and then its suddenly harder to grab a damn walkie talkie (in ep. 3?). Like i spent such a long time figuring out how to grab the damn thing which was ridiculous.
I actually think the choice to play as Clementine was brilliant. IMO it only becomes a problem when it gets too "suspension of disbelief" on… more account of characters relying on Clem to do this and that just because you're the PC and need to do things etc.
I think there's actually plenty of ways that this could be avoided, and Clem's age could actually make the plot/her actions become more interesting. For example, maybe some characters are more likely to listen and change their minds about things since Clem is a child, so you can influence their actions more. Or maybe Clem could overhear a conversation between characters who plan to do something to another character and you can choose whether or not to act on it, who to tell about it, etc and then see the ripple of your actions that way.
I mean, there's tons of ways they could do it. There's lots of you fans out there better than me at coming up with this kind of thing, I have no doubt that Telltale can do it too, it's just disappointing that they haven't.
Another thing that really annoys me is how Telltale promised Clementine would get a chance to relive her childhood with Sarah. This turned o… moreut to be a complete and utter lie. Instead, we have her acting like more of an adult than all the other characters. The more I reflect on season 2, the more disappointed I get.
Yes, I was very disappointed by how Sarah and Clementine's relationship in episode 4 was portrayed. The relationship was much more complicated than what ep4 made it out to be.
Like I thought Sarah and Clem in episode 2 were absolutely adorable, playing with the camera etc.. But then with the whole bringing the gun into it, that whole scene in hindsight could have been brilliant foreshadowing, like this is basically the last little girl on the planet besides Clem, and that scene was an opportunity to express that, the humor and positivity and innocence. But also considering the fact that no one can truly remain innocent in this world, but you can still try to protect them and give them the knowledge that they need in order to survive.
Another thing that really annoys me is how Telltale promised Clementine would get a chance to relive her childhood with Sarah. This turned o… moreut to be a complete and utter lie. Instead, we have her acting like more of an adult than all the other characters. The more I reflect on season 2, the more disappointed I get.
Yeah I've been hoping for Christa's return all along, but with everyone completely forgetting about her since episode 2, I have to admit that at this point if it does happen, it's going to feel very deus ex machina.
I sincerely hope that this means Christa will return to conclude the story. It would explain why the hints at what Clem learned from Christa… more (self-surgery, for one) and the quest to find her were neglected after episode 2. I guess Breckon cares about resolving Clem's storyline with her female guardian, whereas the other two writers weren't informed as to how important Christa would actually be.
I love your text. Thanks for typing that down.
Let's just convince TTG to declare Ep4 as a nightmare Clementine has at some point and re-d… moreo it. Since that's not really an option, we can just hope TTG acknowledges their mistakes (at least internally) and learns something sigh
Yeah, if you think about it's a really weird storytelling decision. Why build up all these questions and all this doubt about what happened between Carver and the cabin group only to kill Carver in the very same episode and never address questions about trust with the cabin group again?
Like I said, the season honestly feels less and less like deliberate storytelling and more and more like miscommunication b/w the writers as it goes on.
Oh Yeah, That brings up a good question:
Just What really happened between the cabin people and Carver? I know Carver possibly raped Rebecc… morea and was violent, cruel and pretty strict But I was also wondering why THESE Specific individuals Were the one who banded together and left. And Because they did, How did they escape? I thought there'd be some great reveal on how they caused someone's death and one of them was responsible and the others were accomplices and witnesses but It really led to nothing.
It would have been great if the reason Carver was such a dictator was because he was paranoid of Said Death caused by the Cabin people and When that gets revealed, You have to choose to help Carver and the 400 days Cast (who through hubs can see Carver's side of the story), or the Cabin group (but no one knows about your involvement except for say Bonnie or Sarah). And even then a fall out causes Carver to die at the end of the chapter and y… [view original content]
I just played season 1 on vacation. Nothing is season 2 comes close to as fun season 1 is.
Just got done playing episode 2 s1. Cut a dudes let off. Went to a farm. Fixed a swing. Fixed a fence. Damn mark were are your legs. Cracked Larry's skull. Good episode.
Season2 just does not compare. I liked the long hubs and puzzles much more.
I loved episode 4 and it was my it's favorite episode this season
Character equalization, hubs, puzzles, interesting characters, good len… moregth and we explored Clementine a little more This episode had cheap deaths but every other episode has its cons as well. I know I'm going to get downvote nuked because this thread is about the cons of season 2 but oh well. Respecting other opinions, right?
i had the same sense at first that they was trying to please everyone,infact im glad they listen,Clem was made the playable character for season 2 because of fan support,Kenny surviving that was hard to believe but i loved seeing Kenny again,another very good move,im surprised that they have seen to have ripped off Molly with Jane,i get there there will be hardcore survivalists out there,but this was just too cartoonish,how about a military group or a military man or a tribesman surviving on the land,etc anything but not this.
I think I'm going to agree with the OP. The second season has been a real let down from the start, not only because we have to play as a chi… moreld who is hamfisted inserted in all kinds of situations when young strong guys are available. It doesn't make sense. But I digress; the really big problem is in the story and that there is no clear focus, which the OP already pointed out. Another problem is that a lot of backstory is simply ignored - How did Kenny survive? What happened with the people from 400 Days, including those not playable?
I think one problem is that TTG tries too hard to please the crowd. Everyone yells "Let Kenny survive!" - and Kenny survives. "We wanna play as Clem!" And we get to play as Clem (to my great dismay). It would have been better for everyone involved if TTG had set a story based on season 1 and simply worked from that instead of the fans. In other words, draw a map from reality instead of trying to change reality to fit a preexisting map.
got to disagree slightly with you guys i loved the change of heart that went with Rebecca and Carlos trusting Clem,because at the same time i began to mellow towards them as the player.At first i hated the Cabin group and didn't want anything to do with anyone apart from season ones group but as time went on we just seemed to give each other time and trust,im at a point now where i love the cabin group as much as season one's group,i can't believe i'd ever say that lol
I think the sudden personality change of Rebecca and Carlos in Episode 2 permanently lowered my opinion on them. Carlos in particular ended… more Episode 1 by sternly warning Clem not to approach his daughter, yet he's all smiles when he sees Clem return in Episode 2. Keep in mind that the group has just been under the impression that Clem was both a zombie infectee and a tool of Carver's - yet when she returns after a full day without Nick and Pete, something which would actually have proved their suspicions right, Carlos and Rebecca once again take the irrational choice and assume Clem is trustworthy.
Nick and Sarah also had interesting relationships with Clementine that changed, and hidden depths that were revealed, which made the callous disposal of them in Episode 4 feel more like it was mandated by the writers rather than actually believable.
Fair enough, I actually felt the same. But the change would have been much more effective if it had taken a lot to get to that point. I definitely don't think it's a bad thing in itself that the cabin group warms up to Clem. My point is that it comes out of nowhere and ends up being more confusing than heartwarming.
got to disagree slightly with you guys i loved the change of heart that went with Rebecca and Carlos trusting Clem,because at the same time… more i began to mellow towards them as the player.At first i hated the Cabin group and didn't want anything to do with anyone apart from season ones group but as time went on we just seemed to give each other time and trust,im at a point now where i love the cabin group as much as season one's group,i can't believe i'd ever say that lol
im sure they know it does have something like 13 thousand views,i don't know if any of you know but there used to be a thread on the old telltale forum before it was upgraded to look like this where you ask Telltale a question and they would reply,i think i even asked Jake a question once lol
I loved seeing Kenny again too, but again, if you look at what they've done with his character it kinda feels like a waste from a storytelling POV. They spend all this time focusing on him, and developing him when that time should have easily been spent on developing ppl in the cabin group who we still know nothing about. And also the fact that his S2 arc is basically a rehash of his role in S1 really rubs me the wrong way.
i had the same sense at first that they was trying to please everyone,infact im glad they listen,Clem was made the playable character for se… moreason 2 because of fan support,Kenny surviving that was hard to believe but i loved seeing Kenny again,another very good move,im surprised that they have seen to have ripped off Molly with Jane,i get there there will be hardcore survivalists out there,but this was just too cartoonish,how about a military group or a military man or a tribesman surviving on the land,etc anything but not this.
huh, that's pretty cool. I'll bet it was cool to be around in those days.. sometimes I wonder if the actual creators of the game look at any fan feedback on these forums lately. Or maybe it is all for nothing.
im sure they know it does have something like 13 thousand views,i don't know if any of you know but there used to be a thread on the old te… morelltale forum before it was upgraded to look like this where you ask Telltale a question and they would reply,i think i even asked Jake a question once lol
I would honestly be very surprised if someone from Telltale hadn't seen it, but no, I wouldn't really expect a staff member to get in touch directly. I might be wrong, but I would have thought that by acknowledging that they'd seen all of the (admittedly constructive) criticism outlined here, they could hardly feign ignorance in future to any of these issues. By remaining silent, they can at least create the assumption that they don't know anything about it, which would mean that they don't have to alter how they make episodes in future to keep their less forgiving fans happy. Not particularly ideal, but understandable.
No. ((
I'm honestly really interested in hearing what they have to say. Wish they would speak up...
*tho come to think of it, I can't really blame them lol
yeah i know what you mean,one minute its 'i want you gone in the morning' to 'Clem will you watch Sarah'. Because the episodes are only short this season it's like were only being told half the tale,imagine exploring all the rooms in the cabin ,having conversations with everyone in each different rooms,you could be there for hours and would be brilliant,and would also give the player a sense of settling in and trusting your new group.
Fair enough, I actually felt the same. But the change would have been much more effective if it had taken a lot to get to that point. I defi… morenitely don't think it's a bad thing in itself that the cabin group warms up to Clem. My point is that it comes out of nowhere and ends up being more confusing than heartwarming.
I agree! I think we at least should have an option to say "Not again.." when everyone was looking at the baby and thought he was dead. Just so we know what happened with Christa's baby.
I agree with both of you, and don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Kenny being the one to help Rebecca. But the thing is, we were… more just blatantly denied the perfect opportunity to find out about what happened to Christa's baby, for no reason at all. Kenny helping in the birth makes sense, but Clementine not mentioning or even looking like she remembers anything about Christa's baby does not.
yeah i know what you mean,one minute its 'i want you gone in the morning' to 'Clem will you watch Sarah'. Because the episodes are only shor… moret this season it's like were only being told half the tale,imagine exploring all the rooms in the cabin ,having conversations with everyone in each different rooms,you could be there for hours and would be brilliant,and would also give the player a sense of settling in and trusting your new group.
I would honestly be very surprised if someone from Telltale hadn't seen it, but no, I wouldn't really expect a staff member to get in touch … moredirectly. I might be wrong, but I would have thought that by acknowledging that they'd seen all of the (admittedly constructive) criticism outlined here, they could hardly feign ignorance in future to any of these issues. By remaining silent, they can at least create the assumption that they don't know anything about it, which would mean that they don't have to alter how they make episodes in future to keep their less forgiving fans happy. Not particularly ideal, but understandable.
nah it's not all for nothing,it might not be the greatest judge of comments but look at all the fans who agree by liking your original post,and what about the fans who don't come on the forums,who feel the same way,i'd say it's the majority,episode 4 dropped the ball so hard even IGN woke up,Telltale know. When they said they were streamlining there games to make them into cinematic experiences into 90 minutes is when the quality suffered,great stories need time to be told.
huh, that's pretty cool. I'll bet it was cool to be around in those days.. sometimes I wonder if the actual creators of the game look at any fan feedback on these forums lately. Or maybe it is all for nothing.
Yeah it bothers me how EASY it seems like it would have been to address issues like this. Ofc I'm not a game developer, but would it really have been so difficult to have a line or two where Clem says something like "This is familiar" ???
I agree! I think we at least should have an option to say "Not again.." when everyone was looking at the baby and thought he was dead. Just so we know what happened with Christa's baby.
Comments
People, let's just drop it, ok? We don't need to argue semantics. I think everyone understands how you both feel.
I was waiting for JANE to fall down the balcony and be screaming at the others for help. That whole loner shtick is a slap in the face to Lee and Christa and Omid and EVERYONE who took care of Clem up to this point.
Ok, I guess I can see where you're coming from. But that still doesn't really change my point. Yes, we have control over one more determinant death, but what's the point if both the characters in question barely even participate in the plot after that? Alvin disappears for almost all of episode 3, then shows up at the end to die. Nick hovers in the background of episode 3 with only a few words that are for the most part OOC, and then dies offscreen in episode 4 without a single line of dialogue.
A choice that has no effect is just window-dressing. IMO I would rather have less choices that mean more, than more choices that mean less.
I loved episode 4 and it was my it's favorite episode this season
Character equalization, hubs, puzzles, interesting characters, good length and we explored Clementine a little more This episode had cheap deaths but every other episode has its cons as well. I know I'm going to get downvote nuked because this thread is about the cons of season 2 but oh well. Respecting other opinions, right?
Playing as Clementine isn't an inherently bad idea. But resurrecting a dead character was a pretty bad idea in hindsight. I wonder how the story would have been if, for instance, Nick was the one who undergoes Kenny 2.0's mental breakdown.
Please don't feel like you can't speak your opinion just because you don't agree! This goes for everyone seeing this thread as well. I think it would be a good thing to carry on a conversation where the episode went right, and not only where it went wrong. I just didn't really bother when first starting the topic since it was already wayyy to long to read, lol.
Another thing that really annoys me is how Telltale promised Clementine would get a chance to relive her childhood with Sarah. This turned out to be a complete and utter lie. Instead, we have her acting like more of an adult than all the other characters. The more I reflect on season 2, the more disappointed I get.
I actually think the choice to play as Clementine was brilliant. IMO it only becomes a problem when it gets too "suspension of disbelief" on account of characters relying on Clem to do this and that just because you're the PC and need to do things etc.
I think there's actually plenty of ways that this could be avoided, and Clem's age could actually make the plot/her actions become more interesting. For example, maybe some characters are more likely to listen and change their minds about things since Clem is a child, so you can influence their actions more. Or maybe Clem could overhear a conversation between characters who plan to do something to another character and you can choose whether or not to act on it, who to tell about it, etc and then see the ripple of your actions that way.
I mean, there's tons of ways they could do it. There's lots of you fans out there better than me at coming up with this kind of thing, I have no doubt that Telltale can do it too, it's just disappointing that they haven't.
That actually makes a lot of sense. Like I said before, it really does seem more and more like the writers are just being given a vague outline and allowed to take the story wherever they want it to with no clear goal in sight. As a result the entire season feels messy, and I for one still have no idea what it's exactly supposed to be about, or where the plot is headed.
THIS!
Yeah, the whole point of making this thread is that some small part of me IS holding out hope that if episode 5 isn't at least better, then at least Telltale will learn from their mistakes and make Season 3 the best it can be. (contrary to what my original post would have you believe, lol.)
I mean, this season has made mistakes that they really can't fix imo, and that's very discouraging, BUT with that said, I still have hope that if Telltale realizes their mistakes then they can improve and make Season 3 great.
I think the sudden personality change of Rebecca and Carlos in Episode 2 permanently lowered my opinion on them. Carlos in particular ended Episode 1 by sternly warning Clem not to approach his daughter, yet he's all smiles when he sees Clem return in Episode 2. Keep in mind that the group has just been under the impression that Clem was both a zombie infectee and a tool of Carver's - yet when she returns after a full day without Nick and Pete, something which would actually have proved their suspicions right, Carlos and Rebecca once again take the irrational choice and assume Clem is trustworthy.
Nick and Sarah also had interesting relationships with Clementine that changed, and hidden depths that were revealed, which made the callous disposal of them in Episode 4 feel more like it was mandated by the writers rather than actually believable.
About Kenny's return to the plot, it felt like a weird choice. I mean, on one hand I love Kenny and was thrilled to be able to spend more time with him. But on the other hand, his character arc had a pretty solid conclusion in Season 1, compared to, say Lilly, who not only was more likely to be alive, but who also had more storytelling potential since she didn't really get much of a conclusion in S1.
I mean, you have to consider his role in the story itself. His miraculous escape from death is completely handwaved, his role/character arc at this point seems to be a rehash of season 1... Telltale really could have aimed higher than that in my opinion.
Exactly, I thought that Carlos and Rebecca would have been MORE likely to distrust Clem as a result of what happened to Pete/Nick at the end of episode 1. It was a WTF moment back then, but again, I could have easily forgiven it if Telltale had paid more attention to similar mistakes instead of continuing to make them even worse..
Yeah, the whole situation was just badly handled and very bland imo. At least up to this point we've always been given a definite say in whether or not we choose the "survival at any cost" attitude. But everything in episode 4 was completely stacked against everyone except Jane. It's like she was just untouchable.
Yes keeping them BOTH alive would have been interesting and unpredictable at this point. & I was very surprised that the meds did absolutely nothing to help.. I mean I wasn't expecting much from Telltale at that point, but the only reason I chose to take them was on the assumption that they would do their job lol.
I agree, playing as clementine was a logical step for the game since Clem is more defenseless than a grown adult thus: Walkers are still a huge threat and puzzles would require an extra level of thinking on her part and the story gave her an EXCELLENT starting hand with Christa and Omid being her caretaker and Christa being pregnant and Clem learning about survival and relationships the hard way. it all became a disappointment after episode 2. And We get next to NIL when it comes to puzzles except opening a can of food (which was actually ok) and hunting around for items for stitching (also ok) and then its suddenly harder to grab a damn walkie talkie (in ep. 3?). Like i spent such a long time figuring out how to grab the damn thing which was ridiculous.
We took pictures of her and.... idk... cut plants?
Thanks telltale. Childhood rekindled. bleh
Yes, I was very disappointed by how Sarah and Clementine's relationship in episode 4 was portrayed. The relationship was much more complicated than what ep4 made it out to be.
Like I thought Sarah and Clem in episode 2 were absolutely adorable, playing with the camera etc.. But then with the whole bringing the gun into it, that whole scene in hindsight could have been brilliant foreshadowing, like this is basically the last little girl on the planet besides Clem, and that scene was an opportunity to express that, the humor and positivity and innocence. But also considering the fact that no one can truly remain innocent in this world, but you can still try to protect them and give them the knowledge that they need in order to survive.
Yeah I've been hoping for Christa's return all along, but with everyone completely forgetting about her since episode 2, I have to admit that at this point if it does happen, it's going to feel very deus ex machina.
At this point if the story treated Episode 4 as Clem's nightmare, it would honestly be a dream come true lol.
Yeah, if you think about it's a really weird storytelling decision. Why build up all these questions and all this doubt about what happened between Carver and the cabin group only to kill Carver in the very same episode and never address questions about trust with the cabin group again?
Like I said, the season honestly feels less and less like deliberate storytelling and more and more like miscommunication b/w the writers as it goes on.
I just played season 1 on vacation. Nothing is season 2 comes close to as fun season 1 is.
Just got done playing episode 2 s1. Cut a dudes let off. Went to a farm. Fixed a swing. Fixed a fence. Damn mark were are your legs. Cracked Larry's skull. Good episode.
Season2 just does not compare. I liked the long hubs and puzzles much more.
You must be retarded for liking this episode better.
Any staff reply yet? Or are they still avoiding this thread?
*Clem voice * That's not nice!
Differing opinions are good. We can discuss them without insulting each other.
No.
((
I'm honestly really interested in hearing what they have to say. Wish they would speak up...
*tho come to think of it, I can't really blame them lol
i had the same sense at first that they was trying to please everyone,infact im glad they listen,Clem was made the playable character for season 2 because of fan support,Kenny surviving that was hard to believe but i loved seeing Kenny again,another very good move,im surprised that they have seen to have ripped off Molly with Jane,i get there there will be hardcore survivalists out there,but this was just too cartoonish,how about a military group or a military man or a tribesman surviving on the land,etc anything but not this.
got to disagree slightly with you guys
i loved the change of heart that went with Rebecca and Carlos trusting Clem,because at the same time i began to mellow towards them as the player.At first i hated the Cabin group and didn't want anything to do with anyone apart from season ones group but as time went on we just seemed to give each other time and trust,im at a point now where i love the cabin group as much as season one's group,i can't believe i'd ever say that lol
Fair enough, I actually felt the same. But the change would have been much more effective if it had taken a lot to get to that point. I definitely don't think it's a bad thing in itself that the cabin group warms up to Clem. My point is that it comes out of nowhere and ends up being more confusing than heartwarming.
im sure they know
it does have something like 13 thousand views,i don't know if any of you know but there used to be a thread on the old telltale forum before it was upgraded to look like this where you ask Telltale a question and they would reply,i think i even asked Jake a question once lol
I loved seeing Kenny again too, but again, if you look at what they've done with his character it kinda feels like a waste from a storytelling POV. They spend all this time focusing on him, and developing him when that time should have easily been spent on developing ppl in the cabin group who we still know nothing about. And also the fact that his S2 arc is basically a rehash of his role in S1 really rubs me the wrong way.
huh, that's pretty cool. I'll bet it was cool to be around in those days.. sometimes I wonder if the actual creators of the game look at any fan feedback on these forums lately. Or maybe it is all for nothing.
I would honestly be very surprised if someone from Telltale hadn't seen it, but no, I wouldn't really expect a staff member to get in touch directly. I might be wrong, but I would have thought that by acknowledging that they'd seen all of the (admittedly constructive) criticism outlined here, they could hardly feign ignorance in future to any of these issues. By remaining silent, they can at least create the assumption that they don't know anything about it, which would mean that they don't have to alter how they make episodes in future to keep their less forgiving fans happy. Not particularly ideal, but understandable.
yeah i know what you mean,one minute its 'i want you gone in the morning' to 'Clem will you watch Sarah'. Because the episodes are only short this season it's like were only being told half the tale,imagine exploring all the rooms in the cabin ,having conversations with everyone in each different rooms,you could be there for hours and would be brilliant,and would also give the player a sense of settling in and trusting your new group.
I agree! I think we at least should have an option to say "Not again.." when everyone was looking at the baby and thought he was dead. Just so we know what happened with Christa's baby.
That would have been so great :')
makes sense to me
nah it's not all for nothing,it might not be the greatest judge of comments but look at all the fans who agree by liking your original post,and what about the fans who don't come on the forums,who feel the same way,i'd say it's the majority,episode 4 dropped the ball so hard even IGN woke up,Telltale know. When they said they were streamlining there games to make them into cinematic experiences into 90 minutes is when the quality suffered,great stories need time to be told.
Yeah it bothers me how EASY it seems like it would have been to address issues like this. Ofc I'm not a game developer, but would it really have been so difficult to have a line or two where Clem says something like "This is familiar" ???