Hmm? It's anyone's opinion of course, but I honestly thought ep. 2 has been the best of the season. It definitely had its issues, sure (Carlos' inconsistent reactions towards Clem doing things being a glaring one for me), but I felt Breckon did a fair job of making it a fairly contained story. It moved the narrative along for me at a decent pace, and it worked for me as a whole. There was a clear beginning, middle, and end, and at the same time they flowed together well. I mean yes, if any episode so far were to break this new TTG rule about 90ish minute episodes, ep. 2 would have been the one to do it for the five day time jump. But I still think Nick Breckon did a good job with the length constraints in delivering a fine narrative to bridge the river scene and Carver's introduction to Carver's camp.
By throwing the story out of the window, do you mean with the Christa and Clem relationship? What do you mean?
xD Good to know i can get a laugh out of some people. Read the whole thing and all i can say is I completely agree with everything you menti… moreoned. Episode 1 Set a good story, Episode 2 threw that story out the window, Episode 3 dug the grave and Episode 4 buried the season.
It's alright, I agree. I like my Clementine kindhearted and positive too, but Telltale just keeps giving her this sassy devil-may-care expression and I can't stand it. And before anyone tries to object with "she's been through a lot, it's only natural for her to act like this" - I know, but that doesn't mean she always has to have a puss on her face. When I chose the "Don't worry about it" option after Rebecca apologizes in episode 2, I was pretty disgusted at how bitterly Clementine said it. You don't have to give up all hope and optimism to be a survivor. That's what my Lee taught her. I guess Telltale wanted Christa to rub off on her more, though.
Great OP @TT247 I agree with you. I think my opinion will earn a lot of downvotes and they'll think like I'm some kind of shitbird but... On… moree thing that really bothers me is that this season doesn't feel like "A sequel to Season One." Like; this season could be the first season. It doesn't have any continuation except that "Season Two" logo on it. It's like, this events happened in some alternative universe you know? That timeskip bullshit though. It starts 8 months after Lee's death. That's okay but 16 months time jump after that... that means 24 months timeskip in one episode. All of those efforts I've done for Clementine seems pointless. Lee and Clementine spend hardly 4 months together where as Clementine and Christa spend 24 months together. What's the point of all of those decisions we made then? Sadly; our choices didn't affected Clementine's characteristic personality and her point of view about this world. Not even a little bit. Even… [view original content]
Hmm? It's anyone's opinion of course, but I honestly thought ep. 2 has been the best of the season. It definitely had its issues, sure (Carl… moreos' inconsistent reactions towards Clem doing things being a glaring one for me), but I felt Breckon did a fair job of making it a fairly contained story. It moved the narrative along for me at a decent pace, and it worked for me as a whole. There was a clear beginning, middle, and end, and at the same time they flowed together well. I mean yes, if any episode so far were to break this new TTG rule about 90ish minute episodes, ep. 2 would have been the one to do it for the five day time jump. But I still think Nick Breckon did a good job with the length constraints in delivering a fine narrative to bridge the river scene and Carver's introduction to Carver's camp.
By throwing the story out of the window, do you mean with the Christa and Clem relationship? What do you mean?
One of the things that i was really put down about was the relationship between Luke and Bonnie. In episode 3 Bonnie actually looked concerned about him but all of a sudden in ep. 4 she didn't have any character development at all and Luke had sex with Jane which just made him look even more of an asshole after suggesting leaving people behind to die twice. My point is they turned Luke into an asshole
We don't really know how nick is feeling I remember seeing a thread about this where the OP talked about how their family member died and at first they weren't crying but it wasn't until he actually saw that family member at the funeral (which they still didn't cry until then) did twy actually start to break down for all we know this could be the same with luke who's bottling everything up and will eventually break down
Welllll do you mean you want to start more flame wars or try to solve them lol? You can go ahead and link to the discussion if you want, I would like to bring in as many people to this as possible. I actually already posted this to my own tumblr but I don't have a whole ton of followers so it didn't get too huge there yet.
Yeah that's a little harsh lol but that seems to be the way everyone sees Luke now. I have actually read some fans' analysis that his behavior does actually make sense in context, but considering the rest of the episode it still just feels like bad writing. To me it just seems like Telltale is purposely trying to make Luke look bad so you have less reason to take his side in the whole Luke vs Kenny thing.
One of the things that i was really put down about was the relationship between Luke and Bonnie. In episode 3 Bonnie actually looked concern… moreed about him but all of a sudden in ep. 4 she didn't have any character development at all and Luke had sex with Jane which just made him look even more of an asshole after suggesting leaving people behind to die twice.
My point is they turned Luke into an asshole
Yeah that's another problem I have with this season.. On one hand there are references to season 1 left and right but on the other hand it's like s1 didn't even matter. And at the same time, I think Telltale is being too heavy-handed with all these s1 references because it's like they're tryng to make you care about this season because we cared about the last one. It feels a lot less genuine when you go back and the dialogue is exactly the same no matter what your choices last season, and especially when the rest of the events of the season doesn't even allow you to honor what Lee was all about.
Ofc Telltale doesn't have to pull off some elaborate save import system with your choices making huge changes in the story, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that it should have at least been possible to make more "personal" references to your choices in the first season. Like the whole thing where Clem says "shit" in the bathroom stall at the beginning depending on that tiny little choice in s1, I loved that. But that was one of the only times I recall that anything in s1 had an actual affect on the dialogue or events of s2.
I would have loved if there would have been concrete ways to show the effects of save imports in the second season... Like back when s2 started, I was thinking that maybe there would be some point in the game when Clem would have to shoot a walker and it would depend on the dialogue you told her in s1 as to whether or not she would succeed. Like even if this hypothetical scene ended in the same way no matter what (walker shot dead & Clem safe) it still would have been REALLY cool to see.
I could come up with more examples but you get the idea!
Great OP @TT247 I agree with you. I think my opinion will earn a lot of downvotes and they'll think like I'm some kind of shitbird but... On… moree thing that really bothers me is that this season doesn't feel like "A sequel to Season One." Like; this season could be the first season. It doesn't have any continuation except that "Season Two" logo on it. It's like, this events happened in some alternative universe you know? That timeskip bullshit though. It starts 8 months after Lee's death. That's okay but 16 months time jump after that... that means 24 months timeskip in one episode. All of those efforts I've done for Clementine seems pointless. Lee and Clementine spend hardly 4 months together where as Clementine and Christa spend 24 months together. What's the point of all of those decisions we made then? Sadly; our choices didn't affected Clementine's characteristic personality and her point of view about this world. Not even a little bit. Even… [view original content]
That's a valid interpretation but like I said in my original post, when you consider it along with the rest of season 2's problems, it feels less like deliberate characterization and more like the writers just forgot about it.
We don't really know how nick is feeling I remember seeing a thread about this where the OP talked about how their family member died and at… more first they weren't crying but it wasn't until he actually saw that family member at the funeral (which they still didn't cry until then) did twy actually start to break down for all we know this could be the same with luke who's bottling everything up and will eventually break down
Well I can understand why you might feel that way but IMO Clem being the protagonist is really not the reason why this season has been disappointing...
Season 2 was dissapointing but still fairly enjoyable . Of course it doesnt even come close to what season 1 or TWAU was because i just hate… more the idea of us playing with a character that already existed i think we should have played with a completly new protaganist .
Don't switch writers around with newbies on a series like this. Wolf Among Us? Yeah, perfect place to toss new writers, new series and all.
Carver was a manipulating, tactical, scary, and possibly vindicated antagonist who could've been a bit harsh but had valid reasons to reel the Cabin Group back in. Nope. He's preaching survival of the fittest, committing murder, bashing people's heads in and acting like a complete jackass.
Nick didn't fucking matter. He never fucking matter. I wouldn't even have minded the way he went out if he was even relevant in Episode 3.
Sarah's second death was annoying. I wanted to save her, but killing her off anyway? Feels like it undermined my choice. Whatever consequence that arose from getting her to live a few more hours hasn't been seen. Kind of bullshit that Luke's childhood friend gets passing mentions, and the screaming anxiety-filled sheltered child's screaming is ignored within moments.
Also pick a theme and stick with it. Lee's is redemption. Clem? I don't have any big idea honestly.
cuz I do already have a tldr up there... But if you're talking about the main text, yeah you're probably right I could try to make it easier to read....
alright I edited it a bit. Hopefully it'll be a little easier on the eyes now?
Bro, you're probably saying a lot of interesting stuff, problem is that you can't format your text in here. Which makes long text indigestib… morele to read. So, if you feel like doing so, you should synthesize your text. I'm sure there's plenty of unnecessary words. Find some synonyms to shorten your sentences. Or if you feel lazy : Just sum-up your point (Hope you won't take it badly, it's not meant as a bad thing)
I agree with OP. Season 2 is then lost and my hype or hope in ep 5 is kinda low. My hopes are towards season 3. We need good writers that will get some inspiration in season 1 and wont change everything each episode as they see fit.
I agree with @Its_That_Guy. Episode 2 was actually my favorite of the season, but if you look at it in comparison to episode 1, it's a completely different tone and for the most part very inconsistent.
Thank you for spending your time to type this all out, OP. I agree with most, if not all of the points and probably won't be buying a season 3 if it's released. Characters having consistent personalities is the most important thing to me, for the writers to actually CARE about the characters they're writing for. These writers clearly don't, though. I'll finish this final episode and be done with the series after it, most likely.
I agree with @Its_That_Guy. Episode 2 was actually my favorite of the season, but if you look at it in comparison to episode 1, it's a completely different tone and for the most part very inconsistent.
This thread depresses me. Am I the only one that thoroughly enjoyed the season despite its flaws? Sure, it wasn't as good as Season 1, but as far as I'm concerned it was definitely still worth the money.
Sorry for dragging you into my black hole of misery
But to answer your question, you definitely aren't the only one who enjoyed the season. It's just that in my case, it's terribly disappointing. After having the utmost faith that Telltale would fix their past mistakes, I felt like this whole episode was just like a huge slap in the face, it just made all their existing problems even worse.
This thread depresses me. Am I the only one that thoroughly enjoyed the season despite its flaws? Sure, it wasn't as good as Season 1, but as far as I'm concerned it was definitely still worth the money.
Yeah, you definitely have a point. Hopefully Telltale redeem themselves and make Episode 5 at least nearly as emotional as Season 1's finale, and then learn from their mistakes and ensure Season 3's a memorable experience.
Sorry for dragging you into my black hole of misery
But to answer your question, you definitely aren't the only one who enjoyed the seas… moreon. It's just that in my case, it's terribly disappointing. After having the utmost faith that Telltale would fix their past mistakes, I felt like this whole episode was just like a huge slap in the face, it just made all their existing problems even worse.
This thread depresses me. Am I the only one that thoroughly enjoyed the season despite its flaws? Sure, it wasn't as good as Season 1, but as far as I'm concerned it was definitely still worth the money.
that's what I'm hoping for! But still, even if episode 5 blows me away, they can't exactly take back the damage already done. I just hope they don't do it again in the next season.
Yeah, you definitely have a point. Hopefully Telltale redeem themselves and make Episode 5 at least nearly as emotional as Season 1's finale, and then learn from their mistakes and ensure Season 3's a memorable experience.
I don't think Season Two has been a disaster, far from it. Yes there have been things I disagreed with, the dog for example. On the whole though, I have enjoyed the ride, and i'm really looking forward to seeing how it all plays out in the last episode.
There have been good and bad points in this season, but there was in season one as well. Nothing is perfect. One thing does wind me up however, and that's the continual moaning from certain quarters about Kenny returning. Yes it was a bit far fetched, but not impossible.
The bad points I didn't like was Omid dying, the long time skip, Carlos supposedly being a Doctor, Carver being over the top and not as clever or as cunning as he was made out to be and finally the needless deaths just for shock value.
In every story though, whether I read it, watch it or play it. There are always things I personally would have done differently. I think most people are the same.
Taking everything into account, I do think Season Two is a success. Doesn't matter that I didn't agree with everything, and besides which this Season is not yet over. Until it is, I can't judge it properly, and nor should anyone else.
If I'm being completely unbiased, I would have to admit that this season hasn't been a complete failure. The episodes for the most part are fairly enjoyable BUT you have to consider that Telltale has specifically built this emphasis that choice matters, fan input matters, the story matters, the characters matter etc etc. From my perspective it seems they've failed to deliver on everything they put so much importance on.
I don't think Season Two has been a disaster, far from it. Yes there have been things I disagreed with, the dog for example. On the whole th… moreough, I have enjoyed the ride, and i'm really looking forward to seeing how it all plays out in the last episode.
There have been good and bad points in this season, but there was in season one as well. Nothing is perfect. One thing does wind me up however, and that's the continual moaning from certain quarters about Kenny returning. Yes it was a bit far fetched, but not impossible.
The bad points I didn't like was Omid dying, the long time skip, Carlos supposedly being a Doctor, Carver being over the top and not as clever or as cunning as he was made out to be and finally the needless deaths just for shock value.
In every story though, whether I read it, watch it or play it. There are always things I personally would have done differently. I think most people are the same.
Taking everything into ac… [view original content]
This thread is still perfect, I love op. Hopefully when 205 releases, telltale can explain themselves onto why they killed off characters the way they did. We already know why we have shorter episodes, puzzlebox basically said they were aiming towards the basic gamer, or the non-gamers. They wanted each episode to feel like a "movie". It's not a bad idea though. But they must acknowledge that, that was a total failure since their release dates suck poo so longer episodes were necessary.
Hopefully this doesn't happen with season 3, but I honestly doubt that.
And re: the shorter episodes, I agree, in itself it's not a bad idea but if they're specifically making these storytelling choices on account of that, then it's really not paying off imo.
This thread is still perfect, I love op. Hopefully when 205 releases, telltale can explain themselves onto why they killed off characters th… moree way they did. We already know why we have shorter episodes, puzzlebox basically said they were aiming towards the basic gamer, or the non-gamers. They wanted each episode to feel like a "movie". It's not a bad idea though. But they must acknowledge that, that was a total failure since their release dates suck poo so longer episodes were necessary.
Hopefully this doesn't happen with season 3, but I honestly doubt that.
There are a lot of issues with this season. One, very few characters in this season are memorable. Luke? Who is Luke? I've been around Luke for four episodes and I barely know the character at all. Especially compared to characters in season 1 who were around in fewer episodes. Same with Nick? Why should I care about Nick? He's just a more one dimensional Ben. The only two characters in this season remotely memorable are Carver (who dies too quick) and Kenny. The latter whom feels like we are retreading his arc in the first season.
Choices are also another problem. Season 1 railroaded a lot. But the choices still felt meaningful and had some impact. If I save Doug or Carley the second episode has completely different moments and character moments. If I refuse to kill Larry then Kenny's whole character and his interactions change.
Where is this in Season 2? I can choose Pete or Nick, and there is a different opening, but that's it. I can save Nick. But he has no impact or any moments in the next episodes. I can save Sarah but she dies not even 30 minutes later. Its all pointless. None of it matters and combined with the less interesting characters it makes Season 2 look really bad.
Season 1 had its flaws. But it was also a more coherent story that dealt with your choices and how you dealt with people better. Season 2 is all over the place with its story and barely acknowledges what you are doing at all.
There are a lot of issues with this season. One, very few characters in this season are memorable.
I see where you're coming from, we really aren't given much to hold interest on any of these characters. I've said this before, but the main reason I appreciate the characters this season was because of fan analysis which pointed out things that I missed and made it clear that there was a lot of foundation/potential for them. But I have to disagree when you say we barely know Nick/shouldn't really care about him. I actually feel like Telltale gave us a pretty solid grasp on his character. That's why it feels like such a weird choice for them to kill him offscreen like that with no further development or involvement, I felt that he was one of the most developed characters in the cabin group.
Season 2 is all over the place with its story and barely acknowledges what you are doing at all.
Yeah, I am still confused that not even our relationships with the characters are acknowledged in the least this season, as far as I know. Seems odd that our actions have no effect on any of them whatsoever when the whole Luke vs Kenny thing is being emphasized so much.
There are a lot of issues with this season. One, very few characters in this season are memorable. Luke? Who is Luke? I've been around Luke … morefor four episodes and I barely know the character at all. Especially compared to characters in season 1 who were around in fewer episodes. Same with Nick? Why should I care about Nick? He's just a more one dimensional Ben. The only two characters in this season remotely memorable are Carver (who dies too quick) and Kenny. The latter whom feels like we are retreading his arc in the first season.
Choices are also another problem. Season 1 railroaded a lot. But the choices still felt meaningful and had some impact. If I save Doug or Carley the second episode has completely different moments and character moments. If I refuse to kill Larry then Kenny's whole character and his interactions change.
Where is this in Season 2? I can choose Pete or Nick, and there is a different opening, but that's it. I can… [view original content]
I'll concede a little with Nick. I felt he could be interesting (and was in parts of episode 1 and 2) but just poorly used afterwards.
I think another problem is that there don't seem to be many moments like in Season 1 where you can just walk around and talk to people and learn things about them.
I'll concede a little with Nick. I felt he could be interesting (and was in parts of episode 1 and 2) but just poorly used afterwards.
I … morethink another problem is that there don't seem to be many moments like in Season 1 where you can just walk around and talk to people and learn things about them.
Good points really I do agree. I like that eps have different vibes (A New Day compared to Starved For Help? Or any in S1 reall) But I know what you mean. One major thing imo is that while opinions were mixed on Ep1 of S2, it had that Season 1 ish vibe somewhat. Season 1 music also. That was a good sense of familiarity with new and now it's all so different to S1 it sometimes is jarring that both are in the same fiction world. I'm not sure why they abandoned Season 1's music, things like Clementine's theme I think
I agree with @Its_That_Guy. Episode 2 was actually my favorite of the season, but if you look at it in comparison to episode 1, it's a completely different tone and for the most part very inconsistent.
Yeah in S1 it used to be a good way to get more info/backstory out of the characters, but IMO it's not a huge problem that we don't have them anymore. I mean, I did enjoy them back in the day but there are other ways to build characterization.
I'll concede a little with Nick. I felt he could be interesting (and was in parts of episode 1 and 2) but just poorly used afterwards.
I … morethink another problem is that there don't seem to be many moments like in Season 1 where you can just walk around and talk to people and learn things about them.
There are, and one particular user has reminded us of that a lot over the months. They mostly worked though, as a "gamey" part of the, uh, game. A tool in service of characterization and character development. If it ain't broke...
To this I ask, what has been Season Two's alternative?
Yeah in S1 it used to be a good way to get more info/backstory out of the characters, but IMO it's not a huge problem that we don't have them anymore. I mean, I did enjoy them back in the day but there are other ways to build characterization.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think S2 is the better for getting rid of hubs. I'm just saying that if Telltale is so dead set against using them, I'm fine with it as long as they use other ways to tell us about the characters. 8/
there are other ways to build characterization.
There are, and one particular user has reminded us of that a lot over the months. Th… moreey mostly worked though, as a "gamey" part of the, uh, game. A tool in service of characterization and character development. If it ain't broke...
To this I ask, what has been Season Two's alternative?
I hadn't considered that a whole lot but yeah some s1 music themes might have been really cool to use & would have tied together the episodes more... maybe they are saving Clementine's theme for the finale of episode 5???
Good points really I do agree. I like that eps have different vibes (A New Day compared to Starved For Help? Or any in S1 reall) But I know… more what you mean. One major thing imo is that while opinions were mixed on Ep1 of S2, it had that Season 1 ish vibe somewhat. Season 1 music also. That was a good sense of familiarity with new and now it's all so different to S1 it sometimes is jarring that both are in the same fiction world. I'm not sure why they abandoned Season 1's music, things like Clementine's theme I think
I thought a neat way of doing that was the eavesdropping and optional conversation with Alvin in All That Remains. It did not give a complete picture, however, which makes sense given the context. I would have liked some more interaction later on, but I thought that was an interesting way to get a first glimpse of the cast.
EDIT: But really, what has been the Season Two alternative? I guess only the cutscenes and some odd fragments here and there.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think S2 is the better for getting rid of hubs. I'm just saying that if Telltale is so dead set against using them, I'm fine with it as long as they use other ways to tell us about the characters. 8/
But really, what has been the Season Two alternative? I guess only the cutscenes and some odd fragments here and there.
Yeah right now I can only think of Luke and Nick revealing backstory about each other, Luke in episode 1 about Nick, and Nick in the shed scene in episode 2 talking about Luke.
I think somebody pointed out before that it wouldn't really make sense for the characters to be revealing extensive backstories about their past for one thing, because Clem's a kid so it might be unnatural for them to tell her that kind of thing, and for the other, everyone in the story has the mindset that it doesn't really matter anymore.
But still, that's only one way to make us care about these characters, we don't need personal history in order to know more about them. We could instead find out more about who they actually are as a person, just by talking to them, asking for their opinion on things, being able to agree/disagree with them & see how they react, etc..
I thought a neat way of doing that was the eavesdropping and optional conversation with Alvin in All That Remains. It did not give a complet… moree picture, however, which makes sense given the context. I would have liked some more interaction later on, but I thought that was an interesting way to get a first glimpse of the cast.
EDIT: But really, what has been the Season Two alternative? I guess only the cutscenes and some odd fragments here and there.
OP, I think you're my new favorite person. I really only have one thing to add:
Even though the last few episodes weren't bad, they were obviously far from perfect. Yet the reviews for them rarely reflect this, handing out 9's and 10's with 7's and 8's being the rare lows. Even when the review concede that there were flaws I've seen them continue handing out the 9's. Heck, I've read a dozen posts on this forum from fans saying "Some things could have been better, still, 9/10."
I'm just wondering if these high scores are a result of people (reviewers are people too) thinking back to how great Season 1 was and associating it with Season 2 or if they are too focused on the individual episodes and not on how they fit the overall plot of the season (I have no idea what it is at this point).
I hadn't considered that a whole lot but yeah some s1 music themes might have been really cool to use & would have tied together the episodes more... maybe they are saving Clementine's theme for the finale of episode 5???
Comments
Hmm? It's anyone's opinion of course, but I honestly thought ep. 2 has been the best of the season. It definitely had its issues, sure (Carlos' inconsistent reactions towards Clem doing things being a glaring one for me), but I felt Breckon did a fair job of making it a fairly contained story. It moved the narrative along for me at a decent pace, and it worked for me as a whole. There was a clear beginning, middle, and end, and at the same time they flowed together well. I mean yes, if any episode so far were to break this new TTG rule about 90ish minute episodes, ep. 2 would have been the one to do it for the five day time jump. But I still think Nick Breckon did a good job with the length constraints in delivering a fine narrative to bridge the river scene and Carver's introduction to Carver's camp.
By throwing the story out of the window, do you mean with the Christa and Clem relationship? What do you mean?
It's alright, I agree. I like my Clementine kindhearted and positive too, but Telltale just keeps giving her this sassy devil-may-care expression and I can't stand it. And before anyone tries to object with "she's been through a lot, it's only natural for her to act like this" - I know, but that doesn't mean she always has to have a puss on her face. When I chose the "Don't worry about it" option after Rebecca apologizes in episode 2, I was pretty disgusted at how bitterly Clementine said it. You don't have to give up all hope and optimism to be a survivor. That's what my Lee taught her. I guess Telltale wanted Christa to rub off on her more, though.
I never said it was bad just that it threw the story that Episode 1 built out the window.
One of the things that i was really put down about was the relationship between Luke and Bonnie. In episode 3 Bonnie actually looked concerned about him but all of a sudden in ep. 4 she didn't have any character development at all and Luke had sex with Jane which just made him look even more of an asshole after suggesting leaving people behind to die twice.
My point is they turned Luke into an asshole
We don't really know how nick is feeling I remember seeing a thread about this where the OP talked about how their family member died and at first they weren't crying but it wasn't until he actually saw that family member at the funeral (which they still didn't cry until then) did twy actually start to break down for all we know this could be the same with luke who's bottling everything up and will eventually break down
Welllll do you mean you want to start more flame wars or try to solve them lol? You can go ahead and link to the discussion if you want, I would like to bring in as many people to this as possible. I actually already posted this to my own tumblr but I don't have a whole ton of followers so it didn't get too huge there yet.
Yeah that's a little harsh lol but that seems to be the way everyone sees Luke now. I have actually read some fans' analysis that his behavior does actually make sense in context, but considering the rest of the episode it still just feels like bad writing. To me it just seems like Telltale is purposely trying to make Luke look bad so you have less reason to take his side in the whole Luke vs Kenny thing.
Yeah that's another problem I have with this season.. On one hand there are references to season 1 left and right but on the other hand it's like s1 didn't even matter. And at the same time, I think Telltale is being too heavy-handed with all these s1 references because it's like they're tryng to make you care about this season because we cared about the last one. It feels a lot less genuine when you go back and the dialogue is exactly the same no matter what your choices last season, and especially when the rest of the events of the season doesn't even allow you to honor what Lee was all about.
Ofc Telltale doesn't have to pull off some elaborate save import system with your choices making huge changes in the story, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that it should have at least been possible to make more "personal" references to your choices in the first season. Like the whole thing where Clem says "shit" in the bathroom stall at the beginning depending on that tiny little choice in s1, I loved that. But that was one of the only times I recall that anything in s1 had an actual affect on the dialogue or events of s2.
I would have loved if there would have been concrete ways to show the effects of save imports in the second season... Like back when s2 started, I was thinking that maybe there would be some point in the game when Clem would have to shoot a walker and it would depend on the dialogue you told her in s1 as to whether or not she would succeed. Like even if this hypothetical scene ended in the same way no matter what (walker shot dead & Clem safe) it still would have been REALLY cool to see.
I could come up with more examples but you get the idea!
That's a valid interpretation but like I said in my original post, when you consider it along with the rest of season 2's problems, it feels less like deliberate characterization and more like the writers just forgot about it.
Well I can understand why you might feel that way but IMO Clem being the protagonist is really not the reason why this season has been disappointing...
Don't switch writers around with newbies on a series like this. Wolf Among Us? Yeah, perfect place to toss new writers, new series and all.
Carver was a manipulating, tactical, scary, and possibly vindicated antagonist who could've been a bit harsh but had valid reasons to reel the Cabin Group back in. Nope. He's preaching survival of the fittest, committing murder, bashing people's heads in and acting like a complete jackass.
Nick didn't fucking matter. He never fucking matter. I wouldn't even have minded the way he went out if he was even relevant in Episode 3.
Sarah's second death was annoying. I wanted to save her, but killing her off anyway? Feels like it undermined my choice. Whatever consequence that arose from getting her to live a few more hours hasn't been seen. Kind of bullshit that Luke's childhood friend gets passing mentions, and the screaming anxiety-filled sheltered child's screaming is ignored within moments.
Also pick a theme and stick with it. Lee's is redemption. Clem? I don't have any big idea honestly.
*Taxi driver guy voice * You talkin to me?
cuz I do already have a tldr up there... But if you're talking about the main text, yeah you're probably right I could try to make it easier to read....
alright I edited it a bit. Hopefully it'll be a little easier on the eyes now?
I agree with OP. Season 2 is then lost and my hype or hope in ep 5 is kinda low. My hopes are towards season 3. We need good writers that will get some inspiration in season 1 and wont change everything each episode as they see fit.
I agree with @Its_That_Guy. Episode 2 was actually my favorite of the season, but if you look at it in comparison to episode 1, it's a completely different tone and for the most part very inconsistent.
Thank you for spending your time to type this all out, OP. I agree with most, if not all of the points and probably won't be buying a season 3 if it's released. Characters having consistent personalities is the most important thing to me, for the writers to actually CARE about the characters they're writing for. These writers clearly don't, though. I'll finish this final episode and be done with the series after it, most likely.
Thanks for explaining that I'm on Mobile and don't feel like going into detail that you already explained in the Thread.
This thread depresses me. Am I the only one that thoroughly enjoyed the season despite its flaws? Sure, it wasn't as good as Season 1, but as far as I'm concerned it was definitely still worth the money.
Sorry for dragging you into my black hole of misery
But to answer your question, you definitely aren't the only one who enjoyed the season. It's just that in my case, it's terribly disappointing. After having the utmost faith that Telltale would fix their past mistakes, I felt like this whole episode was just like a huge slap in the face, it just made all their existing problems even worse.
Yeah, you definitely have a point. Hopefully Telltale redeem themselves and make Episode 5 at least nearly as emotional as Season 1's finale, and then learn from their mistakes and ensure Season 3's a memorable experience.
Well, I still wouldn't call it money wasted by any means. Look at all the discussion that's spawned from it!
that's what I'm hoping for! But still, even if episode 5 blows me away, they can't exactly take back the damage already done. I just hope they don't do it again in the next season.
I don't think Season Two has been a disaster, far from it. Yes there have been things I disagreed with, the dog for example. On the whole though, I have enjoyed the ride, and i'm really looking forward to seeing how it all plays out in the last episode.
There have been good and bad points in this season, but there was in season one as well. Nothing is perfect. One thing does wind me up however, and that's the continual moaning from certain quarters about Kenny returning. Yes it was a bit far fetched, but not impossible.
The bad points I didn't like was Omid dying, the long time skip, Carlos supposedly being a Doctor, Carver being over the top and not as clever or as cunning as he was made out to be and finally the needless deaths just for shock value.
In every story though, whether I read it, watch it or play it. There are always things I personally would have done differently. I think most people are the same.
Taking everything into account, I do think Season Two is a success. Doesn't matter that I didn't agree with everything, and besides which this Season is not yet over. Until it is, I can't judge it properly, and nor should anyone else.
If I'm being completely unbiased, I would have to admit that this season hasn't been a complete failure. The episodes for the most part are fairly enjoyable BUT you have to consider that Telltale has specifically built this emphasis that choice matters, fan input matters, the story matters, the characters matter etc etc. From my perspective it seems they've failed to deliver on everything they put so much importance on.
This thread is still perfect, I love op. Hopefully when 205 releases, telltale can explain themselves onto why they killed off characters the way they did. We already know why we have shorter episodes, puzzlebox basically said they were aiming towards the basic gamer, or the non-gamers. They wanted each episode to feel like a "movie". It's not a bad idea though. But they must acknowledge that, that was a total failure since their release dates suck poo so longer episodes were necessary.
Hopefully this doesn't happen with season 3, but I honestly doubt that.
Thank you!!!!
And re: the shorter episodes, I agree, in itself it's not a bad idea but if they're specifically making these storytelling choices on account of that, then it's really not paying off imo.
There are a lot of issues with this season. One, very few characters in this season are memorable. Luke? Who is Luke? I've been around Luke for four episodes and I barely know the character at all. Especially compared to characters in season 1 who were around in fewer episodes. Same with Nick? Why should I care about Nick? He's just a more one dimensional Ben. The only two characters in this season remotely memorable are Carver (who dies too quick) and Kenny. The latter whom feels like we are retreading his arc in the first season.
Choices are also another problem. Season 1 railroaded a lot. But the choices still felt meaningful and had some impact. If I save Doug or Carley the second episode has completely different moments and character moments. If I refuse to kill Larry then Kenny's whole character and his interactions change.
Where is this in Season 2? I can choose Pete or Nick, and there is a different opening, but that's it. I can save Nick. But he has no impact or any moments in the next episodes. I can save Sarah but she dies not even 30 minutes later. Its all pointless. None of it matters and combined with the less interesting characters it makes Season 2 look really bad.
Season 1 had its flaws. But it was also a more coherent story that dealt with your choices and how you dealt with people better. Season 2 is all over the place with its story and barely acknowledges what you are doing at all.
I see where you're coming from, we really aren't given much to hold interest on any of these characters. I've said this before, but the main reason I appreciate the characters this season was because of fan analysis which pointed out things that I missed and made it clear that there was a lot of foundation/potential for them. But I have to disagree when you say we barely know Nick/shouldn't really care about him. I actually feel like Telltale gave us a pretty solid grasp on his character. That's why it feels like such a weird choice for them to kill him offscreen like that with no further development or involvement, I felt that he was one of the most developed characters in the cabin group.
Yeah, I am still confused that not even our relationships with the characters are acknowledged in the least this season, as far as I know. Seems odd that our actions have no effect on any of them whatsoever when the whole Luke vs Kenny thing is being emphasized so much.
I'll concede a little with Nick. I felt he could be interesting (and was in parts of episode 1 and 2) but just poorly used afterwards.
I think another problem is that there don't seem to be many moments like in Season 1 where you can just walk around and talk to people and learn things about them.
That contributes, I think, yes. I wrote a lot on the pros of ineractive elements back in the day.
Good points really I do agree. I like that eps have different vibes (A New Day compared to Starved For Help?
Or any in S1 reall) But I know what you mean. One major thing imo is that while opinions were mixed on Ep1 of S2, it had that Season 1 ish vibe somewhat. Season 1 music also. That was a good sense of familiarity with new and now it's all so different to S1 it sometimes is jarring that both are in the same fiction world. I'm not sure why they abandoned Season 1's music, things like Clementine's theme I think
i agree but... it's the new writers/and the one who makes the choices fault not the telltale ...
Sure, I suppose you could fault the new writer/s on an individual level, but Telltale still approved whatever they came up with.
Yeah in S1 it used to be a good way to get more info/backstory out of the characters, but IMO it's not a huge problem that we don't have them anymore. I mean, I did enjoy them back in the day but there are other ways to build characterization.
There are, and one particular user has reminded us of that a lot over the months. They mostly worked though, as a "gamey" part of the, uh, game. A tool in service of characterization and character development. If it ain't broke...
To this I ask, what has been Season Two's alternative?
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think S2 is the better for getting rid of hubs. I'm just saying that if Telltale is so dead set against using them, I'm fine with it as long as they use other ways to tell us about the characters. 8/
I hadn't considered that a whole lot but yeah some s1 music themes might have been really cool to use & would have tied together the episodes more... maybe they are saving Clementine's theme for the finale of episode 5???
I thought a neat way of doing that was the eavesdropping and optional conversation with Alvin in All That Remains. It did not give a complete picture, however, which makes sense given the context. I would have liked some more interaction later on, but I thought that was an interesting way to get a first glimpse of the cast.
EDIT: But really, what has been the Season Two alternative? I guess only the cutscenes and some odd fragments here and there.
Yeah right now I can only think of Luke and Nick revealing backstory about each other, Luke in episode 1 about Nick, and Nick in the shed scene in episode 2 talking about Luke.
I think somebody pointed out before that it wouldn't really make sense for the characters to be revealing extensive backstories about their past for one thing, because Clem's a kid so it might be unnatural for them to tell her that kind of thing, and for the other, everyone in the story has the mindset that it doesn't really matter anymore.
But still, that's only one way to make us care about these characters, we don't need personal history in order to know more about them. We could instead find out more about who they actually are as a person, just by talking to them, asking for their opinion on things, being able to agree/disagree with them & see how they react, etc..
OP, I think you're my new favorite person. I really only have one thing to add:
Even though the last few episodes weren't bad, they were obviously far from perfect. Yet the reviews for them rarely reflect this, handing out 9's and 10's with 7's and 8's being the rare lows. Even when the review concede that there were flaws I've seen them continue handing out the 9's. Heck, I've read a dozen posts on this forum from fans saying "Some things could have been better, still, 9/10."
I'm just wondering if these high scores are a result of people (reviewers are people too) thinking back to how great Season 1 was and associating it with Season 2 or if they are too focused on the individual episodes and not on how they fit the overall plot of the season (I have no idea what it is at this point).
Good idea. It could be better if used sparingly like that in Ep1 and Ep5 of S2