I think they really need to step their game up next season and bring back some really good writers for ALL of the episodes like Sean Vanaman and Nick Breckon, could you imagine how good it would be if they co wrote the entire season? I also think they should either expand their studios or not take on to many games at once, I kind of feel like that's also one of the reasons why this season was sloppy. If they don't take note from this and fix all the messiness then the game isn't going to be any good anymore and become yet another soulless cash cow just like the show. And I really don't want that to happen. ):
Well it's my opinion that it would have been the most interesting to have Lilly return. From a narrative standpoint she would be the only logical choice for a returning cast member from s1 (more likely than Kenny to be alive, and her story was cut short with no resolution to her character arc) and there were many different places her story could have gone, she could have been a part of Carver's group for example and could earn her redemption by helping the cabin group escape. That's the first idea that comes to mind but the possibilities are endless, really.
Do I think that the story would have been better if they didn't bring anyone back at all? At this point, yeah, it probably would have. They wouldn't have wasted all this time on Kenny building him up again and concentrating on what to do with him, and could've focused on the bigger picture or the cabin group who badly needed character development.
Seems both with the show & the game they started to care more about money than the actual product. That's really the only explanation at this point. They both proved they could have done so much better just going by their first seasons.
Without hopefully saying anything someone else already said and to continue the discussion, I'm wondering: Why is it that both the game and … morethe TV show became bad so fast?
The first season of both the game and the show were really awesome, even if they had very little to do with each other - Glen was in the game, but apart from that, no more. But from the second season, the criticism against both the game and the show has grown:
Regarding the show, George Romero said TWD had turned into a soap opera with the occasional zombie for example, and I agree. I watched the first season and loved it, the second season with an anticipating feeling of "ok, it must become good soon, surely this is just a temporary down" and I lost patience halfway through the third and stopped watching it.
And the game is going the same way, and the OP of this thread pointed out the flaws very well. And my reaction to the game is pretty much the same, but: if I … [view original content]
Has Episode 4 soured anyone else's feelings towards TWD?
This, a million times.
After playing the last two episodes all my enthusiasm for the game honestly was just completely gone. I have no faith left for Telltale at this point, I'm really not expecting the last episode to be great. I'm hoping for it, but not counting on it.
Has Episode 4 soured anyone else's feelings towards TWD?
I just saw they uploaded episode 5 on the steamDB usually i would of been super … morehyped but im not,i don't even want to replay the episode again,(ive only played it twice) only something like Lilly coming back and confronting Kenny would get me to get back into it..i think. Ep4 has done serious damage,i don't even care if clem dies anymore if the writing is going to contradict your actions,what's the point?
Also i have issues with Episode 5 and i haven't even played it...the Terminus...most people know what this is..a place what looks safe but has cannibals eating human flesh....it's been done..ughhhh please don't be this,end with Christa,or Lilly or even Kenny v Luke,but not this...
at least i can look at spoilers this time,which is not a good thing.
Are you buying Season Three's Season Pass right away, folks? Are you buying Season Three?
I think the context in which the company arrives to the production of S3 will be important. I see four possible basic scenarios.
First, they arrive still drunk with success, since their two new IP's were smashing hits, and as many a company, ignore what was said for S2 and just go ahead to do what worked last time.
Second, GoT and TftB are indeed successful, but our seemingly useless rants here over the months are taken into consideration, or whatever. Point is, it turns out ok. It's happened in the past, with their games.
Third, Telltale is at a... I don't know if "desperate" is the word, but I'll use desperate. A desperate time for Telltale; their last two games were not received very well. Us humans have a knack for not doing anything to correct our course until we are about to metaphorically crash. Perhaps, then, Telltale will endeavor to release a stellar S3.
Fourth, they collapse under the pressure described in option number three.
I personally think that only the first two are possible, but who knows what the next two years have in store for Telltale. People are noticing their games more, and the public seems to overall like them.
Ha yeah that's what I'm saying about "the feels". People aren't even bothered, it's like it didn't even happen. Just because we're two years into the apocalypse doesn't mean everyone is inhuman!
& speaking of Clem, did it bother anyone else when she busted open the door with two kicks? I get it, she's tough, but she's eleven for cryin out loud.
First, a big thank you to you TT247 who took the time to write all this! Really, thank you and props to you!
I agree completely with wha… moret you said. I mean, where is the emotion, the feels, at least something?! Unfortunately, the characters are all like ''Oh someone's dead? Well too bad''. The hell??
Even Clementine, they describe her almost as a robot, who never cry or something like that. Tears!, we wanna see tears! Proof that she has still her flaws like every humans! Hell, even Rick from the comics cries a lot more times than Clementine! and she's a child for Lee's sake!
Before this, I would have bought Season 3 just because "Well it's Telltale!" but at this point they've ruined their reputation in my book. I think it's going to depend on how well the other two series are written, as you say. I'm going to probably check those out just out of curiosity and also because I'm interested in the worlds they're going into.
About TWD, tbh whether or not Clem is the protagonist next season is going to be the deciding factor in whether or not I'd be interested. It would be a huge mistake for them to kill Clem off or to switch protagonists. If Clem's not the PC next season, I seriously doubt I would even care about the game anymore. I would probably still check it out, or get in on sale, but I really could care less. Yes, I'm that turned off. *Shrug *.
& about fan feedback, IMO if they cut out the whole thing and just concentrated on making a stellar story, I would honestly be ok with that. They just have to be honest about it. Stop building this reputation that choice matters and player input matters when it doesn't. I'd rather they just tell the story they want to tell and no longer do the whole "your input matters" BS. Enough is enough, if it's not working then fine, drop it. Don't keep pretending that it matters when it obviously doesn't!
Are you buying Season Three's Season Pass right away, folks? Are you buying Season Three?
I think the context in which the company arrive… mores to the production of S3 will be important. I see four possible basic scenarios.
First, they arrive still drunk with success, since their two new IP's were smashing hits, and as many a company, ignore what was said for S2 and just go ahead to do what worked last time.
Second, GoT and TftB are indeed successful, but our seemingly useless rants here over the months are taken into consideration, or whatever. Point is, it turns out ok. It's happened in the past, with their games.
Third, Telltale is at a... I don't know if "desperate" is the word, but I'll use desperate. A desperate time for Telltale; their last two games were not received very well. Us humans have a knack for not doing anything to correct our course until we are about to metaphorically crash. Perhaps, then, Telltale will endeavor to… [view original content]
wow so much bitching and whining in one thread jesus fuck
Sure Season 2 was not as great as Season 1 (the lenght was definitely a problem as well as determinant characters dying too fast)
but still it was great and not as bad as all you haters claim to be
it still has a better story and characters then most games these days
I'm hoping telltale won't take all this hate too seriously because most of it is unwarranted and most people still love twd (the hating minority expresses themselves more thats it like with every other forum)
I'm sure they wouldn't make S3 if the sales and critics were that bad
Bring on Season 3 telltale the fans are ready
I'm hoping they do take it very seriously indeed, because developers of any sort should take into account all criticism levied at them, not only that which you deem to be relevant.
Perhaps it would be beneficial to consider that some of us might have legitimate and constructive criticism which might be used to ensure that Season 3 is as good-quality as Season 1 was (since you admit that Season 2 has been comparatively poor, if still "great" in your opinion) rather than telling people to stop "bitching" when they find that the product they paid money for is lacking in some way.
wow so much bitching and whining in one thread jesus fuck
Sure Season 2 was not as great as Season 1 (the lenght was definitely a problem a… mores well as determinant characters dying too fast)
but still it was great and not as bad as all you haters claim to be
it still has a better story and characters then most games these days
I'm hoping telltale won't take all this hate too seriously because most of it is unwarranted and most people still love twd (the hating minority expresses themselves more thats it like with every other forum)
I'm sure they wouldn't make S3 if the sales and critics were that bad
Bring on Season 3 telltale the fans are ready
Of course that bothers me! I was like : Come on Telltale, really? She's Clementine, not Bigby! At least, if she hit the door a dozen times then I would have accepted it. She's a valuable little girl , not a Tyresse or a Abraham.
Really, I don't know how all the staff, director, writers and everyone are thinking about this.
Ha yeah that's what I'm saying about "the feels". People aren't even bothered, it's like it didn't even happen. Just because we're two years… more into the apocalypse doesn't mean everyone is inhuman!
& speaking of Clem, did it bother anyone else when she busted open the door with two kicks? I get it, she's tough, but she's eleven for cryin out loud.
wow so much bitching and whining in one thread jesus fuck
Sure Season 2 was not as great as Season 1 (the lenght was definitely a problem a… mores well as determinant characters dying too fast)
but still it was great and not as bad as all you haters claim to be
it still has a better story and characters then most games these days
I'm hoping telltale won't take all this hate too seriously because most of it is unwarranted and most people still love twd (the hating minority expresses themselves more thats it like with every other forum)
I'm sure they wouldn't make S3 if the sales and critics were that bad
Bring on Season 3 telltale the fans are ready
True but like I said before, I don't think the story went downhill because Clem's the protagonist. There are lots of ways they could have made playing as her enjoyable and effective, instead of trying to turn her into a mini adult. I said this before on the thread, I always thought the whole "Just because you're a little girl doesn't mean you get treated like one" meant that just because she's a child doesn't mean the world will treat her mercifully, not "Clem now has the capabilities and personality of a grown adult".
It went wrong the moment they decided to have you play as a little girl. "I'm Clementine and adults listen to me just like in real life!"
Get real. If a little girl was telling me what to do I'd roll my eyes and do whatever I felt like doing.
yeah when that happened I actually laughed out loud. Not in a good way.. It was just like "...really?"
I don't get why they seem to think she has to be some kind of powerhouse. What about using her small size to her advantage? Using her wits? All that stuff they talked about before the season started? Nope, didn't happen.
It's great if she eventually grows up to be this unstoppable badass. But having her be that way when she's freaking eleven just seems silly, and it nullifies the chance for there to be gradual buildup/growth, a satisfying and logical change.
Of course that bothers me! I was like : Come on Telltale, really? She's Clementine, not Bigby! At least, if she hit the door a dozen times … morethen I would have accepted it. She's a valuable little girl , not a Tyresse or a Abraham.
Really, I don't know how all the staff, director, writers and everyone are thinking about this.
And you are - in your own words - bitching about people who you consider are bitching.
It is easy to disregard a posture contrary to yours. It makes noise inside your head, foreign ideas can be introduced to your mind. It is difficult to kill an idea, so instead of considering what others have to say, you cover your ears and declare what has been expressed here as bitching and whining.
wow so much bitching and whining in one thread jesus fuck
Sure Season 2 was not as great as Season 1 (the lenght was definitely a problem a… mores well as determinant characters dying too fast)
but still it was great and not as bad as all you haters claim to be
it still has a better story and characters then most games these days
I'm hoping telltale won't take all this hate too seriously because most of it is unwarranted and most people still love twd (the hating minority expresses themselves more thats it like with every other forum)
I'm sure they wouldn't make S3 if the sales and critics were that bad
Bring on Season 3 telltale the fans are ready
And are the writers talk to themselves before continuing the story? Because it unfortunately doesn't seem like the case. :S
And all the little details and objects that they forgot. If those details were there I think it would have been more good actually.
I mean : Lee's picture , Kenny's family drawing , Pete's watch . It's crazy to think that with these little things a lot more character development could have been present, whether you show the drawing to Kenny or Clem holding Lee's picture a couple of times.
Unfortunately, they didn't use those little things as their advantage.
yeah when that happened I actually laughed out loud. Not in a good way.. It was just like "...really?"
I don't get why they seem to thin… morek she has to be some kind of powerhouse. What about using her small size to her advantage? Using her wits? All that stuff they talked about before the season started? Nope, didn't happen.
It's great if she eventually grows up to be this unstoppable badass. But having her be that way when she's freaking eleven just seems silly, and it nullifies the chance for there to be gradual buildup/growth, a satisfying and logical change.
Whether you are honestly asking these questions for your own personal enlightenment or for the sake of argument, it's very clear that you have already made several people (and possibly many more) extremely uncomfortable. Lumlotus and the other users are under no obligation to educate you or open your eyes. You need to take that step for yourself.
Whether or not you personally judge someone to be qualified enough to talk about this should not even matter. People should not have to submit themselves to your endless scrutiny and condescending attitude in order to prove themselves worthy of being taken seriously.
Whether or not you "meant" to be offensive doesn't matter. That's not an apology, and it's still offensive. Don't plead ignorance when you obviously meant every word.
Learn to argue without stooping to personal insults or twisting your own words whenever your BS argument fails.
Alright. Thanks for clarifying. I hadn't heard of those symptoms before. If you yourself have suffered from these and are comfortable sharin… moreg, I'd be curious to know more about how these manifest. Do you feel like you can't control your legs at all or is it more a feeling of weakness? Are you unable to talk because of breathing issues, are you able to mentally generate words but unable to output them, or is there a difficulty in verbal thinking altogether? Again, you don't have to answer if you don't know of don't feel comfortable.
Also, as someone with both the conditions that people attribute to Sarah, do you think they portrayed her accurately as someone with these disorders or were there missteps in how they presented some of her behavior?
Lumlotus and the other users are under no obligation to educate you or open your eyes.
I must have missed the part where I demanded answers from Lumlotus or else. Was it before or after I said
If you yourself have suffered from these and are comfortable sharing
and
Again, you don't have to answer if you don't know or don't feel comfortable.
I get that you have a bad impression of me, but at least look at the words that I type rather than just presuming that I feel entitled to my questions being answered.
I see that you're still a bit peeved over our previous exchange. While I disagree with your assessment of me and my words, I have no desire to continue antagonizing you by continuing out argument. But please do try not to bring your old grudges with me into exchanges that don't involve you. Thanks.
Whether you are honestly asking these questions for your own personal enlightenment or for the sake of argument, it's very clear that you ha… moreve already made several people (and possibly many more) extremely uncomfortable. Lumlotus and the other users are under no obligation to educate you or open your eyes. You need to take that step for yourself.
Whether or not you personally judge someone to be qualified enough to talk about this should not even matter. People should not have to submit themselves to your endless scrutiny and condescending attitude in order to prove themselves worthy of being taken seriously.
Whether or not you "meant" to be offensive doesn't matter. That's not an apology, and it's still offensive. Don't plead ignorance when you obviously meant every word.
Learn to argue without stooping to personal insults or twisting your own words whenever your BS argument fails.
As the OP of the thread, this is me stepping in because it's blatantly obvious that you don't care about the issue here. You continue to make several people uncomfortable and now you're just going around in circles trying to save face. This isn't just my personal "bad impression" here. Several people have come in on a pages-long debate that had nothing personally to do with them, solely to call you out on your condescending and harmful attitude. And judging from the fact that Lumlotus has not answered you in two days, it seems clear that they have no desire to engage you. If you actually want to know more on the subject, go look it up.
Lumlotus and the other users are under no obligation to educate you or open your eyes.
I must have missed the part where I demanded … moreanswers from Lumlotus or else. Was it before or after I said
If you yourself have suffered from these and are comfortable sharing
and
Again, you don't have to answer if you don't know or don't feel comfortable.
I get that you have a bad impression of me, but at least look at the words that I type rather than just presuming that I feel entitled to my questions being answered.
I see that you're still a bit peeved over our previous exchange. While I disagree with your assessment of me and my words, I have no desire to continue antagonizing you by continuing out argument. But please do try not to bring your old grudges with me into exchanges that don't involve you. Thanks.
Several people have come in on a pages-long debate that had nothing personally to do with them, solely to call you out on your condescending and harmful attitude.
And I've spoken with them. I had a very nice PM discussion with Anna_Faye and despite our intense disagreement, she said that she understood where I was coming from. I actually didn't post the comment here because I wanted to avoid this exact situation we find ourselves in. I didn't want to PM these questions to Lumlotus though because people tend to feel more pressured to respond to PMs than posts.
And judging from the fact that Lumlotus has not answered you in two days, it seems clear that they have no desire to engage you.
And that's fine. Did you see me pestering them further for answers? No, I made one post inquiring about the subject and that's it. If you hadn't jumped in just now, the matter would have been dropped entirely.
Btw, I did look it up. I didn't find much about the symptoms that Lumlotus spoke of. Not all the insight into these things can be found online it seems. I figure I could get better insight straight from the horse's mouth. But in no way was I forcing Lumlotus to answer my questions. I made that pretty clear, I thought.
As the OP of the thread, this is me stepping in because it's blatantly obvious that you don't care about the issue here. You continue to mak… moree several people uncomfortable and now you're just going around in circles trying to save face. This isn't just my personal "bad impression" here. Several people have come in on a pages-long debate that had nothing personally to do with them, solely to call you out on your condescending and harmful attitude. And judging from the fact that Lumlotus has not answered you in two days, it seems clear that they have no desire to engage you. If you actually want to know more on the subject, go look it up.
A "very nice" PM discussion? Just because someone may understand where an attitude comes from does NOT mean that they're ok with it. Dress it up however you like. Just because somebody understands the attitude of the majority does not make them right, and it does not mean that they're suddenly not bothered by it.
I don't even need to know how the actual conversation between you and Anna_Faye went. You continue to cherry pick and dance around the fact that you continue to twist words, to be completely condescending and dismissive. And as soon as I leave this comment you're going to continue to do that because you just can't lose an argument. Well you're going to have to go somewhere else to get your kicks. Get out of my thread or I'm reporting you.
Several people have come in on a pages-long debate that had nothing personally to do with them, solely to call you out on your condescending… more and harmful attitude.
And I've spoken with them. I had a very nice PM discussion with Anna_Faye and despite our intense disagreement, she said that she understood where I was coming from. I actually didn't post the comment here because I wanted to avoid this exact situation we find ourselves in. I didn't want to PM these questions to Lumlotus though because people tend to feel more pressured to respond to PMs than posts.
And judging from the fact that Lumlotus has not answered you in two days, it seems clear that they have no desire to engage you.
And that's fine. Did you see me pestering them further for answers? No, I made one post inquiring about the subject and that's it. If you hadn't jumped in just now, the matter would have been dropped entirely.
Btw, I did look it up. I d… [view original content]
yeah when that happened I actually laughed out loud. Not in a good way.. It was just like "...really?"
I don't get why they seem to thin… morek she has to be some kind of powerhouse. What about using her small size to her advantage? Using her wits? All that stuff they talked about before the season started? Nope, didn't happen.
It's great if she eventually grows up to be this unstoppable badass. But having her be that way when she's freaking eleven just seems silly, and it nullifies the chance for there to be gradual buildup/growth, a satisfying and logical change.
A "very nice" PM discussion? Just because someone may understand where an attitude comes from does NOT mean that they're ok with it. Dress i… moret up however you like. Just because somebody understands the attitude of the majority does not make them right, and it does not mean that they're suddenly not bothered by it.
I don't even need to know how the actual conversation between you and Anna_Faye went. You continue to cherry pick and dance around the fact that you continue to twist words, to be completely condescending and dismissive. And as soon as I leave this comment you're going to continue to do that because you just can't lose an argument. Well you're going to have to go somewhere else to get your kicks. Get out of my thread or I'm reporting you.
Reporting me for...what? I've broken none of the guidelines and have been pretty amicable towards you despite your constant accusations towa… morerds me.
That being said, you don't need to threaten me just to get me to leave your thread. You could have simply asked, dear.
Bye now.
Criticism of fictional characters is not against forum guidelines. Granted, I've only skimmed the posts, but from what I've seen, DomeWing333 hasn't done anything wrong. Giving a critical and opinionated stance against a character - even if it isn't sugar coated - isn't wrong unless a user breaks the forum guidelines in how they do so.
From observing the flagged posts lightly, I've yet to see any insults, flaming, trolling, etc. The forum guidelines are in place as conduct for members to interact with each other and promote good discussion, not to prevent potential discrimination of fictional characters or filter out controversial, opinionated stances (again, unless the member is disrespectful and/or trolling in how they conduct themselves).
On the contrary, I'd actually say that you guys seemed to be having a pretty strong and nuanced debate - which is a good thing.
On that note, going back to the debate at this point would probably be a good thing as the trolling accusations might cause people to get heated, even if their intentions may be good. Again, please stick to flagging posts if you are offended by how a member conducts themselves - not if you are offended by their opinion.
Episode 3.... went back down to average. Not even 'better than average.' Just average. Especially from the realization that 400 days made no difference whatsoever.
Episode 4 - poor. Terrible handling of characters, no choice or even illusion of choice. Everything seems railroaded. Characters act totally unlike what had been built up for the previous episodes. Two characters dying stupidly, removing lots of storytelling potential for how they could have died in Season 5 instead, or could have died at the end of Season 4 at least in the shootout.
Episode 5 - I'm hoping it will be better. I don't think it could be a bigger letdown in storytelling quality than episode 4 was. I'm hoping for another quality of episode 2. Maybe even some sort of stuff with Christa or with SOMETHING about the 16 month gap, unless Telltale is planning on doing a DLC for the 16 month gap instead.
I'll just finish this off and add one more thing that I shared elsewhere in a PM: (Text in brackets means I added something new for this particular post...)
I frequently see Telltale describe their Walking Dead games as a "psychological profile" that acts as a mirror to the player's morals. True, not everything in the Zombie Apocalypse is peachy, but that scenario doesn't really discriminate against [particular groups of] people [for who they inherently are] - instead, it discriminates against how they adapt. These heated debates are kind of the point of Telltale's Walking Dead series. It's why they show you choices at the end of an episode, it's why they want people to discuss the game, etc. When Telltale writes their scenarios in each Walking Dead episode, they design them so that people can discuss and share their opinions on why each person makes their choices. The choices are a vehicle to allow players to discover their morality in a world gone to hell, but I'd find it a dubious claim at best that Telltale writes the episodes to encourage people to personally discriminate people against others [outside of the context of an Apocalypse].
Criticism of fictional characters is not against forum guidelines. Granted, I've only skimmed the posts, but from what I've seen, DomeWing33… more3 hasn't done anything wrong. Giving a critical and opinionated stance against a character - even if it isn't sugar coated - isn't wrong unless a user breaks the forum guidelines in how they do so.
From observing the flagged posts lightly, I've yet to see any insults, flaming, trolling, etc. The forum guidelines are in place as conduct for members to interact with each other and promote good discussion, not to prevent potential discrimination of fictional characters or filter out controversial, opinionated stances (again, unless the member is disrespectful and/or trolling in how they conduct themselves).
On the contrary, I'd actually say that you guys seemed to be having a pretty strong and nuanced debate - which is a good thing.
On that note, going back to the debate at this point would probabl… [view original content]
Episode 1 was better than average.
Episode 2 was GREAT.
Episode 3.... went back down to average. Not even 'better than average.' Just … moreaverage. Especially from the realization that 400 days made no difference whatsoever.
Episode 4 - poor. Terrible handling of characters, no choice or even illusion of choice. Everything seems railroaded. Characters act totally unlike what had been built up for the previous episodes. Two characters dying stupidly, removing lots of storytelling potential for how they could have died in Season 5 instead, or could have died at the end of Season 4 at least in the shootout.
Episode 5 - I'm hoping it will be better. I don't think it could be a bigger letdown in storytelling quality than episode 4 was. I'm hoping for another quality of episode 2. Maybe even some sort of stuff with Christa or with SOMETHING about the 16 month gap, unless Telltale is planning on doing a DLC for the 16 month gap instead.
Wow that's so fucked up Pierre said it's Nick's "problem" now like really? I hope they never hire him or JT Petty and the other guy who wrote episode 4 again. If your solution is to just kill a character off as quickly as possible rather than actually develop them and give them a proper arc, you're a shitty writer. I hope they learned their lesson with this and only trust certain writers in the future, ones who actually care about the narrative as a whole and not just "hey how can i completely fuck this up as much as possible"
While other write LONG comments and you poor TT247 have to read them.I want to remind you that episode 3 and episode 4 were written not by N… moreick Breckon.
I really do not hate or attempt to show disrespect to Pierre shorrete and the new guys as they are respected writers.
Pierre's POV of things of everything was completely different from Nick's POV.His style is dark and oppression like when it comes to a grime story so Pierre wrote an unpredictable and dark story that nothing will go according to plan .His lack of view and and development for the characters came from his lack of caring as he didn't create them so he wouldn't bother to change or kill them off (smart move) so might as well add Jane and Mike and kill off Carver in spectacular way.As he finished the episode he said it's Nick Breckon's problem now to continue with the story Development as he is a talented writer as well.
But Telltale made a dumb move by hiring a noob writer… [view original content]
True but like I said before, I don't think the story went downhill because Clem's the protagonist. There are lots of ways they could have ma… morede playing as her enjoyable and effective, instead of trying to turn her into a mini adult. I said this before on the thread, I always thought the whole "Just because you're a little girl doesn't mean you get treated like one" meant that just because she's a child doesn't mean the world will treat her mercifully, not "Clem now has the capabilities and personality of a grown adult".
Well it's my opinion that it would have been the most interesting to have Lilly return. From a narrative standpoint she would be the only lo… moregical choice for a returning cast member from s1 (more likely than Kenny to be alive, and her story was cut short with no resolution to her character arc) and there were many different places her story could have gone, she could have been a part of Carver's group for example and could earn her redemption by helping the cabin group escape. That's the first idea that comes to mind but the possibilities are endless, really.
Do I think that the story would have been better if they didn't bring anyone back at all? At this point, yeah, it probably would have. They wouldn't have wasted all this time on Kenny building him up again and concentrating on what to do with him, and could've focused on the bigger picture or the cabin group who badly needed character development.
No, episode 4 hasn't soured my feelings toward TWD. It's dug a hole episode 5 will need to climb out of (I do agree with many of the points here), but I still believe episode 5 has the potential to soar, and bring this season a little higher.
I enjoy the franchise too much to have an episode turn me off from it.
Has Episode 4 soured anyone else's feelings towards TWD?
I just saw they uploaded episode 5 on the steamDB usually i would of been super … morehyped but im not,i don't even want to replay the episode again,(ive only played it twice) only something like Lilly coming back and confronting Kenny would get me to get back into it..i think. Ep4 has done serious damage,i don't even care if clem dies anymore if the writing is going to contradict your actions,what's the point?
Also i have issues with Episode 5 and i haven't even played it...the Terminus...most people know what this is..a place what looks safe but has cannibals eating human flesh....it's been done..ughhhh please don't be this,end with Christa,or Lilly or even Kenny v Luke,but not this...
at least i can look at spoilers this time,which is not a good thing.
Bro, you're probably saying a lot of interesting stuff, problem is that you can't format your text in here. Which makes long text indigestib… morele to read. So, if you feel like doing so, you should synthesize your text. I'm sure there's plenty of unnecessary words. Find some synonyms to shorten your sentences. Or if you feel lazy : Just sum-up your point (Hope you won't take it badly, it's not meant as a bad thing)
This "aiming for the casual gaming" shit pisses me off to no end. S1 was so extremely successful without them having to resort to that bullshit, so why the hell are they starting that now? The main thing that really upsets me about this trend is that it completely ignores the dedicated fans that are passionate and have been there from the beginning. It's a fucking slap in the face.
This thread is still perfect, I love op. Hopefully when 205 releases, telltale can explain themselves onto why they killed off characters th… moree way they did. We already know why we have shorter episodes, puzzlebox basically said they were aiming towards the basic gamer, or the non-gamers. They wanted each episode to feel like a "movie". It's not a bad idea though. But they must acknowledge that, that was a total failure since their release dates suck poo so longer episodes were necessary.
Hopefully this doesn't happen with season 3, but I honestly doubt that.
About TWD, tbh whether or not Clem is the protagonist next season is going to be the deciding factor in whether or not I'd be interested. It would be a huge mistake for them to kill Clem off or to switch protagonists. If Clem's not the PC next season, I seriously doubt I would even care about the game anymore. I would probably still check it out, or get in on sale, but I really could care less. Yes, I'm that turned off. *Shrug *.
Exactly how I feel. I couldn't really get into Borderlands and Game of Thrones so I'm probably not going to get those anyway, and it doesn't really matter to me if they're good or not, if Clem dies at the end of S2 or isn't in S3 I'm most likely not going to get it, it just depends if I like the direction they go without Clem. If she does survive however, I'll definitely get the first episode and see how I like it, since I have enjoyed S2 immensely, even though I still see the huge flaws it has.
Are you buying Season Three's Season Pass right away, folks? Are you buying Season Three?
I think the context in which the company arrive… mores to the production of S3 will be important. I see four possible basic scenarios.
First, they arrive still drunk with success, since their two new IP's were smashing hits, and as many a company, ignore what was said for S2 and just go ahead to do what worked last time.
Second, GoT and TftB are indeed successful, but our seemingly useless rants here over the months are taken into consideration, or whatever. Point is, it turns out ok. It's happened in the past, with their games.
Third, Telltale is at a... I don't know if "desperate" is the word, but I'll use desperate. A desperate time for Telltale; their last two games were not received very well. Us humans have a knack for not doing anything to correct our course until we are about to metaphorically crash. Perhaps, then, Telltale will endeavor to… [view original content]
This. Why make Luke the deuteragonist if you bring back Kenny the fan favourite? I like Kenny but he takes enough space for two characters in popularity and familiarity. Then sure alright you brought back Kenny but give Luke screen time if you want us to want to pick Kenny or Luke -_- He had plenty in Ep1 and 2 and you could feel the brother sister figure bond almost and a decent amount in 3 and in 4 he's barely seen and is OOC and less likable when he is
Thank you for doing this. I am glad that I was not the only one who was just broken by the atrocious butchering of potential.
Also, Jane … moreleaving the game alive. Seriously. They kill Sarita, they kill Nick, they kill Sarah, they kill Rebecca. All who had potential but they were too lazy to explore them. But rather than end Jane the Original Character's involvement in the plot with a death (could have been written to punish her assumptions that one can survive alone, creating moral contrast for the player), they refuse to kill her and just let her walk away alive. Wow. Molly The Original Character 2.0, huh. Yeah. Thanks.
For some reason I felt the writers of this episode were actually valiant fans of Kenny (judging from all the excessive badass-building and drama that is thrown his way, plus his active involvement with the plot that leaves deuteragonist Luke no space to develop) and probably very fond of characters like Molly who dance on… [view original content]
You have another problem there . the fact that a child is hamfisted thrust into anything that happens. One very obvious example is when they reach the bridge: You have a pretty large group, including two healthy young men, and Clem is the youngest one. And Clem, being a child (weak, short, inexperienced) is picked over Nick to go with Luke... It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Clem could very well continued to be a kind of moral beacon in the group, but having her do this? Nope. Absolutely no way.
It went wrong the moment they decided to have you play as a little girl. "I'm Clementine and adults listen to me just like in real life!"
Get real. If a little girl was telling me what to do I'd roll my eyes and do whatever I felt like doing.
Because Nick just suffered a Trauma and was drunk and completely incapable of doing anything?
My god, it's an empty bridge. Luke and Clementine could have scouted it without any problems.
I thought it was a bit weirder when Luke told Clementine that she should do the talking.
You have another problem there . the fact that a child is hamfisted thrust into anything that happens. One very obvious example is when they… more reach the bridge: You have a pretty large group, including two healthy young men, and Clem is the youngest one. And Clem, being a child (weak, short, inexperienced) is picked over Nick to go with Luke... It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Clem could very well continued to be a kind of moral beacon in the group, but having her do this? Nope. Absolutely no way.
Comments
telltale ain't shit without us....don't forget that, telltale..
I think they really need to step their game up next season and bring back some really good writers for ALL of the episodes like Sean Vanaman and Nick Breckon, could you imagine how good it would be if they co wrote the entire season? I also think they should either expand their studios or not take on to many games at once, I kind of feel like that's also one of the reasons why this season was sloppy. If they don't take note from this and fix all the messiness then the game isn't going to be any good anymore and become yet another soulless cash cow just like the show. And I really don't want that to happen. ):
Well it's my opinion that it would have been the most interesting to have Lilly return. From a narrative standpoint she would be the only logical choice for a returning cast member from s1 (more likely than Kenny to be alive, and her story was cut short with no resolution to her character arc) and there were many different places her story could have gone, she could have been a part of Carver's group for example and could earn her redemption by helping the cabin group escape. That's the first idea that comes to mind but the possibilities are endless, really.
Do I think that the story would have been better if they didn't bring anyone back at all? At this point, yeah, it probably would have. They wouldn't have wasted all this time on Kenny building him up again and concentrating on what to do with him, and could've focused on the bigger picture or the cabin group who badly needed character development.
Seems both with the show & the game they started to care more about money than the actual product. That's really the only explanation at this point. They both proved they could have done so much better just going by their first seasons.
Ha yeah. I did think about that but trying not to sound COMPLETELY bitter I didn't mention it at the time.
But needless to say I've gone back to being bitter again all the way.
This, a million times.
After playing the last two episodes all my enthusiasm for the game honestly was just completely gone. I have no faith left for Telltale at this point, I'm really not expecting the last episode to be great. I'm hoping for it, but not counting on it.
Are you buying Season Three's Season Pass right away, folks? Are you buying Season Three?
I think the context in which the company arrives to the production of S3 will be important. I see four possible basic scenarios.
First, they arrive still drunk with success, since their two new IP's were smashing hits, and as many a company, ignore what was said for S2 and just go ahead to do what worked last time.
Second, GoT and TftB are indeed successful, but our seemingly useless rants here over the months are taken into consideration, or whatever. Point is, it turns out ok. It's happened in the past, with their games.
Third, Telltale is at a... I don't know if "desperate" is the word, but I'll use desperate. A desperate time for Telltale; their last two games were not received very well. Us humans have a knack for not doing anything to correct our course until we are about to metaphorically crash. Perhaps, then, Telltale will endeavor to release a stellar S3.
Fourth, they collapse under the pressure described in option number three.
I personally think that only the first two are possible, but who knows what the next two years have in store for Telltale. People are noticing their games more, and the public seems to overall like them.
Ha yeah that's what I'm saying about "the feels". People aren't even bothered, it's like it didn't even happen. Just because we're two years into the apocalypse doesn't mean everyone is inhuman!
& speaking of Clem, did it bother anyone else when she busted open the door with two kicks? I get it, she's tough, but she's eleven for cryin out loud.
Me, I honestly don't know what I'm going to do.
Before this, I would have bought Season 3 just because "Well it's Telltale!" but at this point they've ruined their reputation in my book. I think it's going to depend on how well the other two series are written, as you say. I'm going to probably check those out just out of curiosity and also because I'm interested in the worlds they're going into.
About TWD, tbh whether or not Clem is the protagonist next season is going to be the deciding factor in whether or not I'd be interested. It would be a huge mistake for them to kill Clem off or to switch protagonists. If Clem's not the PC next season, I seriously doubt I would even care about the game anymore. I would probably still check it out, or get in on sale, but I really could care less. Yes, I'm that turned off. *Shrug *.
& about fan feedback, IMO if they cut out the whole thing and just concentrated on making a stellar story, I would honestly be ok with that. They just have to be honest about it. Stop building this reputation that choice matters and player input matters when it doesn't. I'd rather they just tell the story they want to tell and no longer do the whole "your input matters" BS. Enough is enough, if it's not working then fine, drop it. Don't keep pretending that it matters when it obviously doesn't!
wow so much bitching and whining in one thread jesus fuck
Sure Season 2 was not as great as Season 1 (the lenght was definitely a problem as well as determinant characters dying too fast)
but still it was great and not as bad as all you haters claim to be
it still has a better story and characters then most games these days
I'm hoping telltale won't take all this hate too seriously because most of it is unwarranted and most people still love twd (the hating minority expresses themselves more thats it like with every other forum)
I'm sure they wouldn't make S3 if the sales and critics were that bad
Bring on Season 3 telltale the fans are ready
It went wrong the moment they decided to have you play as a little girl. "I'm Clementine and adults listen to me just like in real life!"
Get real. If a little girl was telling me what to do I'd roll my eyes and do whatever I felt like doing.
I'm hoping they do take it very seriously indeed, because developers of any sort should take into account all criticism levied at them, not only that which you deem to be relevant.
Perhaps it would be beneficial to consider that some of us might have legitimate and constructive criticism which might be used to ensure that Season 3 is as good-quality as Season 1 was (since you admit that Season 2 has been comparatively poor, if still "great" in your opinion) rather than telling people to stop "bitching" when they find that the product they paid money for is lacking in some way.
Of course that bothers me! I was like : Come on Telltale, really? She's Clementine, not Bigby! At least, if she hit the door a dozen times then I would have accepted it. She's a valuable little girl , not a Tyresse or a Abraham.
Really, I don't know how all the staff, director, writers and everyone are thinking about this.
I think you need to read my post to get the picture. There are reasons people are "whining".
True but like I said before, I don't think the story went downhill because Clem's the protagonist. There are lots of ways they could have made playing as her enjoyable and effective, instead of trying to turn her into a mini adult. I said this before on the thread, I always thought the whole "Just because you're a little girl doesn't mean you get treated like one" meant that just because she's a child doesn't mean the world will treat her mercifully, not "Clem now has the capabilities and personality of a grown adult".
yeah when that happened I actually laughed out loud. Not in a good way.. It was just like "...really?"
I don't get why they seem to think she has to be some kind of powerhouse. What about using her small size to her advantage? Using her wits? All that stuff they talked about before the season started? Nope, didn't happen.
It's great if she eventually grows up to be this unstoppable badass. But having her be that way when she's freaking eleven just seems silly, and it nullifies the chance for there to be gradual buildup/growth, a satisfying and logical change.
And you are - in your own words - bitching about people who you consider are bitching.
It is easy to disregard a posture contrary to yours. It makes noise inside your head, foreign ideas can be introduced to your mind. It is difficult to kill an idea, so instead of considering what others have to say, you cover your ears and declare what has been expressed here as bitching and whining.
And are the writers talk to themselves before continuing the story? Because it unfortunately doesn't seem like the case. :S
And all the little details and objects that they forgot. If those details were there I think it would have been more good actually.
I mean : Lee's picture , Kenny's family drawing , Pete's watch . It's crazy to think that with these little things a lot more character development could have been present, whether you show the drawing to Kenny or Clem holding Lee's picture a couple of times.
Unfortunately, they didn't use those little things as their advantage.
Whether you are honestly asking these questions for your own personal enlightenment or for the sake of argument, it's very clear that you have already made several people (and possibly many more) extremely uncomfortable. Lumlotus and the other users are under no obligation to educate you or open your eyes. You need to take that step for yourself.
Whether or not you personally judge someone to be qualified enough to talk about this should not even matter. People should not have to submit themselves to your endless scrutiny and condescending attitude in order to prove themselves worthy of being taken seriously.
Whether or not you "meant" to be offensive doesn't matter. That's not an apology, and it's still offensive. Don't plead ignorance when you obviously meant every word.
Learn to argue without stooping to personal insults or twisting your own words whenever your BS argument fails.
I must have missed the part where I demanded answers from Lumlotus or else. Was it before or after I said
and
I get that you have a bad impression of me, but at least look at the words that I type rather than just presuming that I feel entitled to my questions being answered.
I see that you're still a bit peeved over our previous exchange. While I disagree with your assessment of me and my words, I have no desire to continue antagonizing you by continuing out argument. But please do try not to bring your old grudges with me into exchanges that don't involve you. Thanks.
As the OP of the thread, this is me stepping in because it's blatantly obvious that you don't care about the issue here. You continue to make several people uncomfortable and now you're just going around in circles trying to save face. This isn't just my personal "bad impression" here. Several people have come in on a pages-long debate that had nothing personally to do with them, solely to call you out on your condescending and harmful attitude. And judging from the fact that Lumlotus has not answered you in two days, it seems clear that they have no desire to engage you. If you actually want to know more on the subject, go look it up.
And I've spoken with them. I had a very nice PM discussion with Anna_Faye and despite our intense disagreement, she said that she understood where I was coming from. I actually didn't post the comment here because I wanted to avoid this exact situation we find ourselves in. I didn't want to PM these questions to Lumlotus though because people tend to feel more pressured to respond to PMs than posts.
And that's fine. Did you see me pestering them further for answers? No, I made one post inquiring about the subject and that's it. If you hadn't jumped in just now, the matter would have been dropped entirely.
Btw, I did look it up. I didn't find much about the symptoms that Lumlotus spoke of. Not all the insight into these things can be found online it seems. I figure I could get better insight straight from the horse's mouth. But in no way was I forcing Lumlotus to answer my questions. I made that pretty clear, I thought.
A "very nice" PM discussion? Just because someone may understand where an attitude comes from does NOT mean that they're ok with it. Dress it up however you like. Just because somebody understands the attitude of the majority does not make them right, and it does not mean that they're suddenly not bothered by it.
I don't even need to know how the actual conversation between you and Anna_Faye went. You continue to cherry pick and dance around the fact that you continue to twist words, to be completely condescending and dismissive. And as soon as I leave this comment you're going to continue to do that because you just can't lose an argument. Well you're going to have to go somewhere else to get your kicks. Get out of my thread or I'm reporting you.
Here's some foreshadowing by Molly: "You've got a good one there, she reminds me of me."
Reporting me for...what? I've broken none of the guidelines and have been pretty amicable towards you despite your constant accusations towards me.
That being said, you don't need to threaten me just to get me to leave your thread. You could have simply asked, dear.
Bye now.
Flagged and reported. Bye now.
Criticism of fictional characters is not against forum guidelines. Granted, I've only skimmed the posts, but from what I've seen, DomeWing333 hasn't done anything wrong. Giving a critical and opinionated stance against a character - even if it isn't sugar coated - isn't wrong unless a user breaks the forum guidelines in how they do so.
From observing the flagged posts lightly, I've yet to see any insults, flaming, trolling, etc. The forum guidelines are in place as conduct for members to interact with each other and promote good discussion, not to prevent potential discrimination of fictional characters or filter out controversial, opinionated stances (again, unless the member is disrespectful and/or trolling in how they conduct themselves).
On the contrary, I'd actually say that you guys seemed to be having a pretty strong and nuanced debate - which is a good thing.
On that note, going back to the debate at this point would probably be a good thing as the trolling accusations might cause people to get heated, even if their intentions may be good. Again, please stick to flagging posts if you are offended by how a member conducts themselves - not if you are offended by their opinion.
Episode 1 was better than average.
Episode 2 was GREAT.
Episode 3.... went back down to average. Not even 'better than average.' Just average. Especially from the realization that 400 days made no difference whatsoever.
Episode 4 - poor. Terrible handling of characters, no choice or even illusion of choice. Everything seems railroaded. Characters act totally unlike what had been built up for the previous episodes. Two characters dying stupidly, removing lots of storytelling potential for how they could have died in Season 5 instead, or could have died at the end of Season 4 at least in the shootout.
Episode 5 - I'm hoping it will be better. I don't think it could be a bigger letdown in storytelling quality than episode 4 was. I'm hoping for another quality of episode 2. Maybe even some sort of stuff with Christa or with SOMETHING about the 16 month gap, unless Telltale is planning on doing a DLC for the 16 month gap instead.
I'll just finish this off and add one more thing that I shared elsewhere in a PM: (Text in brackets means I added something new for this particular post...)
I frequently see Telltale describe their Walking Dead games as a "psychological profile" that acts as a mirror to the player's morals. True, not everything in the Zombie Apocalypse is peachy, but that scenario doesn't really discriminate against [particular groups of] people [for who they inherently are] - instead, it discriminates against how they adapt. These heated debates are kind of the point of Telltale's Walking Dead series. It's why they show you choices at the end of an episode, it's why they want people to discuss the game, etc. When Telltale writes their scenarios in each Walking Dead episode, they design them so that people can discuss and share their opinions on why each person makes their choices. The choices are a vehicle to allow players to discover their morality in a world gone to hell, but I'd find it a dubious claim at best that Telltale writes the episodes to encourage people to personally discriminate people against others [outside of the context of an Apocalypse].
I like the episodes, don't get me wrong, i was just talking about the writing, not the episodes themselves.
Wow that's so fucked up Pierre said it's Nick's "problem" now like really? I hope they never hire him or JT Petty and the other guy who wrote episode 4 again. If your solution is to just kill a character off as quickly as possible rather than actually develop them and give them a proper arc, you're a shitty writer. I hope they learned their lesson with this and only trust certain writers in the future, ones who actually care about the narrative as a whole and not just "hey how can i completely fuck this up as much as possible"
I know
. Just like tweaking her fan base a bit
Actually they did finish her character arc. This is what happens after she leaves the group.
No, episode 4 hasn't soured my feelings toward TWD. It's dug a hole episode 5 will need to climb out of (I do agree with many of the points here), but I still believe episode 5 has the potential to soar, and bring this season a little higher.
I enjoy the franchise too much to have an episode turn me off from it.
Big words are pretty intimidating, huh bro? ):
This "aiming for the casual gaming" shit pisses me off to no end. S1 was so extremely successful without them having to resort to that bullshit, so why the hell are they starting that now? The main thing that really upsets me about this trend is that it completely ignores the dedicated fans that are passionate and have been there from the beginning. It's a fucking slap in the face.
Exactly how I feel. I couldn't really get into Borderlands and Game of Thrones so I'm probably not going to get those anyway, and it doesn't really matter to me if they're good or not, if Clem dies at the end of S2 or isn't in S3 I'm most likely not going to get it, it just depends if I like the direction they go without Clem. If she does survive however, I'll definitely get the first episode and see how I like it, since I have enjoyed S2 immensely, even though I still see the huge flaws it has.
This. Why make Luke the deuteragonist if you bring back Kenny the fan favourite? I like Kenny but he takes enough space for two characters in popularity and familiarity. Then sure alright you brought back Kenny but give Luke screen time if you want us to want to pick Kenny or Luke -_- He had plenty in Ep1 and 2 and you could feel the brother sister figure bond almost and a decent amount in 3 and in 4 he's barely seen and is OOC and less likable when he is
You have another problem there . the fact that a child is hamfisted thrust into anything that happens. One very obvious example is when they reach the bridge: You have a pretty large group, including two healthy young men, and Clem is the youngest one. And Clem, being a child (weak, short, inexperienced) is picked over Nick to go with Luke... It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Clem could very well continued to be a kind of moral beacon in the group, but having her do this? Nope. Absolutely no way.
Because Nick just suffered a Trauma and was drunk and completely incapable of doing anything?
My god, it's an empty bridge. Luke and Clementine could have scouted it without any problems.
I thought it was a bit weirder when Luke told Clementine that she should do the talking.