Yes, obviously Lee could have died because of Kenny not helping him out. That by no means = Kenny trying to murder him.
If you want to ar… moregue that his actions were possibly as bad as murder (they weren't), then fine... but that isn't what I was arguing about.
You're going to be talking to a brick wall because you're wrong, and that is clear to anyone that is even slightly intelligent. Do yourself a favor and look up the definition of "murder". You can argue that Kenny's actions of not helping Lee were not morally good, but it sure as hell was not a murder attempt.
I'm so sick of how stubborn everyone is around here. It is just absolutely mind numbing.
Again, by your logic, Clem tried to murder Sarah in S2 E4.
I don't mean to be harsh here, but I'm really starting to lose patience with people who act this way.
Kenny was in the heat of the moment and did some shit, even if he didn't want to hurt Lee / did not expect that could caused such bad accident. But what would have happened if Lee died back there? Could Kenny blame himself for Lee's death, thinking that he didn't help? I guess so. If that's true, he would be part of a murder.
The situation was far more dire, they were trapped in that room and they walkers were about to get in, while in Kenny's scenario he was in a safe distance and had a gun, Clem was also being constantly bullied by Jane to leave her behind, and if she does she looks visibly shaken by it. If it's anyone's fault, it was mostly Jane's.
Kenny on the other hand, gives Lee a death glare...
You're going to be talking to a brick wall because you're wrong, and that is clear to anyone that is even slightly intelligent. Do yourself … morea favor and look up the definition of "murder". You can argue that Kenny's actions of not helping Lee were not morally good, but it sure as hell was not a murder attempt.
I'm so sick of how stubborn everyone is around here. It is just absolutely mind numbing.
Again, by your logic, Clem tried to murder Sarah in S2 E4.
I don't mean to be harsh here, but I'm really starting to lose patience with people who act this way.
Of course he could blame himself in the instance that Lee dies under the door, but that still is not the same thing as murdering someone. That would be him wishing he had helped Lee out so he didn't have to deal with the threat alone.
So am I.
Kenny was in the heat of the moment and did some shit, even if he didn't want to hurt Lee / did not expect that could caused suc… moreh bad accident. But what would have happened if Lee died back there? Could Kenny blame himself for Lee's death, thinking that he didn't help? I guess so. If that's true, he would be part of a murder.
i like this alot
but its offtopic dude this doesnt relate to the release date of episode 5 maybe u shoudl make ur own thread 4 it cause i… morets not relevant to this sorry
i bet people wil downvote my coment cause ur a moderator but stil u would acknowlege this offtopic
The situation was far more dire, they were trapped in that room and they walkers were about to get in
Kind of like there were walkers that were about to break into the house in the Clem-Sarah situation? I agree that the situation was maybe slightly more dire though in the Kenny-Lee situation, considering the walkers were already basically on them. When you think about it though, this makes leaving Sarah behind even worse, considering there was more time to help her. Obviously the type of help that Sarah needed in comparison to Lee is different, but she needed help all the same. If we're going off of the same principles being used here to twist Kenny's actions as murderous (not helping an individual who is in a life-death situation), then the same things can be done in Clem's situation. Obviously that is ridiculous though, just like calling Kenny a murder for not helping Lee when he was trapped under the door. Choosing to not help save Sarah is obviously a bad thing to do, but it is not murderous. Kenny choosing not to help save Lee was obviously a bad thing to do, but it was not murderous.
Kenny on the other hand, gives Lee a death glare...
That is only your interpretation of it. It was more of a "you're on your own" kind of look to me.
Edit: Down vote all you want Kenny haters, doesn't change the fact that you're wrong
The situation was far more dire, they were trapped in that room and they walkers were about to get in, while in Kenny's scenario he was in a… more safe distance and had a gun, Clem was also being constantly bullied by Jane to leave her behind, and if she does she looks visibly shaken by it. If it's anyone's fault, it was mostly Jane's.
Kenny on the other hand, gives Lee a death glare...
"Not the same thing", just because he didn't get his hands dirty? Similar case - when someone orders the murder (example) he will answer for it like the killers themselves. And what with the group? They would be suspicious, angry... Knowing Lilly's attitude towards Kenny, she would have accused him that he murdered Lee. And Clementine? She was a little girl. How to explain this crap?
Of course he could blame himself in the instance that Lee dies under the door, but that still is not the same thing as murdering someone. That would be him wishing he had helped Lee out so he didn't have to deal with the threat alone.
Still not an accurate comparison, because someone who is calling for someone to be murdered is still trying to have someone killed even if they aren't directly involved in the action of murder itself. It isn't the same thing as not helping someone who is in danger. Kenny was not trying to kill Lee, he simply didn't help him out when he was in danger. It for sure was a bad thing to do, but it was not a murderous action.
"Not the same thing", just because he didn't get his hands dirty? Similar case - when someone orders the murder (example) he will answer for… more it like the killers themselves. And what with the group? They would be suspicious, angry... Knowing Lilly's attitude towards Kenny, she would have accused him that he murdered Lee. And Clementine? She was a little girl. How to explain this crap?
What happened with Lee would depend only on Kenny and what he'd tell the others. "You killed him" and "you left him to die" or "you didn't help him (even if you could)" are really close to each other, if we're still speaking about any sort of apocalypse. He'd murderer in Lilly's and (probably Clementine's) eyes. He'd left the group with Kaajta and Duck shortly after.
Still not an accurate comparison, because someone who is calling for someone to be murdered is still trying to have someone killed even if t… morehey aren't directly involved in the action of murder itself. It isn't the same thing as not helping someone who is in danger. Kenny was not trying to kill Lee, he simply didn't help him out when he was in danger. It for sure was a bad thing to do, but it was not a murderous action.
I know this is a stretch, but she could of killed Kenny long before. When Lee went into the RV (if you kept Lilly) she admits that she could of killed you, but she didn't. If that is true earlier when Lee was sleeping she could of broke free, Ben probably wouldn't have been able to shoot her he'd be too afraid, Lee would be asleep, she wouldn't harm Clem, Kenny's driving and Katja is preoccupied with duck. But she didn't.
You got that backwards, I meant the situation with Sarah was far more dire. They were all in danger, while in Kenny's situation he was in a safe distance holding a gun. Only Lee was in danger there.
The situation was far more dire, they were trapped in that room and they walkers were about to get in
Kind of like there were walker… mores that were about to break into the house in the Clem-Sarah situation? I agree that the situation was maybe slightly more dire though in the Kenny-Lee situation, considering the walkers were already basically on them. When you think about it though, this makes leaving Sarah behind even worse, considering there was more time to help her. Obviously the type of help that Sarah needed in comparison to Lee is different, but she needed help all the same. If we're going off of the same principles being used here to twist Kenny's actions as murderous (not helping an individual who is in a life-death situation), then the same things can be done in Clem's situation. Obviously that is ridiculous though, just like calling Kenny a murder for not helping Lee when he was trapped under the door. Choosing to not help save… [view original content]
I know this is a stretch, but she could of killed Kenny long before. When Lee went into the RV (if you kept Lilly) she admits that she could… more of killed you, but she didn't. If that is true earlier when Lee was sleeping she could of broke free, Ben probably wouldn't have been able to shoot her he'd be too afraid, Lee would be asleep, she wouldn't harm Clem, Kenny's driving and Katja is preoccupied with duck. But she didn't.
YES! thank you! these guys are so annoying lilly fans... jesus, lilly is not better than Kenny,cause Lilly hates lee if you side with Kenny and Kenny hates Lee if you side with Lilly, SO STOP MAKING HER SEEM LIKE A GOOD PERSON WHEN SHE IS JUST LIKE KENNY!!!
THAT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN YOU DONT HELP KENNY OR HIS FAMILY, AND LILLY REFUSES TO HELP LEE WHAN ANDY TRIES TO KILL HIM! HE EVEN SHOUTS HELP SO STOP BLAMING KENNY DAMMIT!
Its so annoying when these people think Lilly is SO nice but NO she kills off Carly/Doug for no fucking reason and doesnt help Lee in the Andy fight! and Kenny...leaves Lee to die under that door cause you chose not help him OR his family so why the fuck should he help you?!
How is Kenny a murderer?
The closest thing I can think of is his killing of Carver, but that was just the prudent thing to do. Otherwise Carver could have escaped and continued hunting them. Kenny made sure he never hurt anyone again.
Lily usually wanted to save anyone in their group though, Kenny abandoned Shawn, not that I hold that against him now but he's done just as bad things, people make mistakes and they can change.
Ah, I guess I did. Either way, the point still stands.
"Obviously the type of help that Sarah needed in comparison to Lee is different, but she needed help all the same. If we're going off of the same principles being used here to twist Kenny's actions as murderous (not helping an individual who is in a life-death situation), then the same things can be done in Clem's situation. Obviously that is ridiculous though, just like calling Kenny a murder for not helping Lee when he was trapped under the door. Choosing to not help save Sarah is obviously a bad thing to do, but it is not murderous. Kenny choosing not to help save Lee was obviously a bad thing to do, but it was not murderous."
You got that backwards, I meant the situation with Sarah was far more dire. They were all in danger, while in Kenny's situation he was in a safe distance holding a gun. Only Lee was in danger there.
What happened with Lee would depend only on Kenny and what he'd tell the others. "You killed him" and "you left him to die" or "you didn't h… moreelp him (even if you could)" are really close to each other, if we're still speaking about any sort of apocalypse. He'd murderer in Lilly's and (probably Clementine's) eyes. He'd left the group with Kaajta and Duck shortly after.
Its so annoying when these people think Lilly is SO nice but NO she kills off Carly/Doug for no fucking reason and doesnt help Lee in the An… moredy fight! and Kenny...leaves Lee to die under that door cause you chose not help him OR his family so why the fuck should he help you?!
The whole "murder by omission" idea depends on context. For example, lets say Lee was eating something and then started to choke on it. Kenny is the only one present with him, and simply decides he isn't going to do anything to save Lee from choking to death. That would for sure be murder by omission, by its definition.
However, the Kenny-Lee situation that we are talking about is nothing like that. They were both trying to get away from a dangerous situation. At the point that the door falls on Lee, Kenny himself is relatively safe, but he would have had to go back and put himself in harm's way if he went back to help him. Going back to help Lee out was the morally right thing to do, but Kenny did not do it because of how his views of Lee had changed in the meat locker. When Lee forces Kenny to handle the Larry situation by himself, Kenny feels like Lee abandoned him. From that point on, Kenny lets Lee handle things on his own, because in his own mind, that is how Lee treated him back at the meat locker.
Comments
I don't want to argue about anything. Arguing is stupid.
You're going to be talking to a brick wall because you're wrong, and that is clear to anyone that is even slightly intelligent. Do yourself a favor and look up the definition of "murder". You can argue that Kenny's actions of not helping Lee were not morally good, but it sure as hell was not a murder attempt.
I'm so sick of how stubborn everyone is around here. It is just absolutely mind numbing.
Again, by your logic, Clem tried to murder Sarah in S2 E4.
I don't mean to be harsh here, but I'm really starting to lose patience with people who act this way.
I didn't mean "arguing" in the bad sense. I was just looking for discussion.
So am I.
Kenny was in the heat of the moment and did some shit, even if he didn't want to hurt Lee / did not expect that could caused such bad accident. But what would have happened if Lee died back there? Could Kenny blame himself for Lee's death, thinking that he didn't help? I guess so. If that's true, he would be part of a murder.
The situation was far more dire, they were trapped in that room and they walkers were about to get in, while in Kenny's scenario he was in a safe distance and had a gun, Clem was also being constantly bullied by Jane to leave her behind, and if she does she looks visibly shaken by it. If it's anyone's fault, it was mostly Jane's.
Kenny on the other hand, gives Lee a death glare...
Of course he could blame himself in the instance that Lee dies under the door, but that still is not the same thing as murdering someone. That would be him wishing he had helped Lee out so he didn't have to deal with the threat alone.
So what?!As long as it's TWD related,he can post stuff like this.Besides,this video was really good.
I cried at this.I'm not even lying
Kind of like there were walkers that were about to break into the house in the Clem-Sarah situation? I agree that the situation was maybe slightly more dire though in the Kenny-Lee situation, considering the walkers were already basically on them. When you think about it though, this makes leaving Sarah behind even worse, considering there was more time to help her. Obviously the type of help that Sarah needed in comparison to Lee is different, but she needed help all the same. If we're going off of the same principles being used here to twist Kenny's actions as murderous (not helping an individual who is in a life-death situation), then the same things can be done in Clem's situation. Obviously that is ridiculous though, just like calling Kenny a murder for not helping Lee when he was trapped under the door. Choosing to not help save Sarah is obviously a bad thing to do, but it is not murderous. Kenny choosing not to help save Lee was obviously a bad thing to do, but it was not murderous.
That is only your interpretation of it. It was more of a "you're on your own" kind of look to me.
Edit: Down vote all you want Kenny haters, doesn't change the fact that you're wrong
"Not the same thing", just because he didn't get his hands dirty? Similar case - when someone orders the murder (example) he will answer for it like the killers themselves. And what with the group? They would be suspicious, angry... Knowing Lilly's attitude towards Kenny, she would have accused him that he murdered Lee. And Clementine? She was a little girl. How to explain this crap?
Still not an accurate comparison, because someone who is calling for someone to be murdered is still trying to have someone killed even if they aren't directly involved in the action of murder itself. It isn't the same thing as not helping someone who is in danger. Kenny was not trying to kill Lee, he simply didn't help him out when he was in danger. It for sure was a bad thing to do, but it was not a murderous action.
What happened with Lee would depend only on Kenny and what he'd tell the others. "You killed him" and "you left him to die" or "you didn't help him (even if you could)" are really close to each other, if we're still speaking about any sort of apocalypse. He'd murderer in Lilly's and (probably Clementine's) eyes. He'd left the group with Kaajta and Duck shortly after.
I know this is a stretch, but she could of killed Kenny long before. When Lee went into the RV (if you kept Lilly) she admits that she could of killed you, but she didn't. If that is true earlier when Lee was sleeping she could of broke free, Ben probably wouldn't have been able to shoot her he'd be too afraid, Lee would be asleep, she wouldn't harm Clem, Kenny's driving and Katja is preoccupied with duck. But she didn't.
You got that backwards, I meant the situation with Sarah was far more dire. They were all in danger, while in Kenny's situation he was in a safe distance holding a gun. Only Lee was in danger there.
Haha.
Sorry, out of context.
Mario Dead
I'm just gonna... leave this here.
"Keep a'your moustache a'trimmed, bro."
I cry everytime.
she is so reckless wouldnt be surprised if shes fired
wait that happened? when??? pics
I believe "murder by omission" is a thing in some countries.
Well sorry for making sick....now im sick too acually
KENNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
YES! thank you! these guys are so annoying lilly fans... jesus, lilly is not better than Kenny,cause Lilly hates lee if you side with Kenny and Kenny hates Lee if you side with Lilly, SO STOP MAKING HER SEEM LIKE A GOOD PERSON WHEN SHE IS JUST LIKE KENNY!!!
THAT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN YOU DONT HELP KENNY OR HIS FAMILY, AND LILLY REFUSES TO HELP LEE WHAN ANDY TRIES TO KILL HIM! HE EVEN SHOUTS HELP SO STOP BLAMING KENNY DAMMIT!
dude get used to this bullshit these guys just want an argument ..
Its so annoying when these people think Lilly is SO nice but NO she kills off Carly/Doug for no fucking reason and doesnt help Lee in the Andy fight! and Kenny...leaves Lee to die under that door cause you chose not help him OR his family so why the fuck should he help you?!
OMG STHAP!!
Lilly is NOT comming back....she is with another group after Being with the governor(TV show)/killing him(comics)
just because Kennys gif where real, doesnt mean that this is real.
Sooooo...you think that its good to have LILLY back !?!??!
If you chop off saritas arm and while she's dying in the middle of the horde, you have a choice to axe sarita right there in front of Kenny.
what will happen if you don't axe sarita ?
Ah, I guess I did. Either way, the point still stands.
"Obviously the type of help that Sarah needed in comparison to Lee is different, but she needed help all the same. If we're going off of the same principles being used here to twist Kenny's actions as murderous (not helping an individual who is in a life-death situation), then the same things can be done in Clem's situation. Obviously that is ridiculous though, just like calling Kenny a murder for not helping Lee when he was trapped under the door. Choosing to not help save Sarah is obviously a bad thing to do, but it is not murderous. Kenny choosing not to help save Lee was obviously a bad thing to do, but it was not murderous."
"You left him to die" and "You killed him" are not really close at all. They are two different things.
Honestly, this is how I feel when ever I debate with people who are anti-Kenny.
(Decided to remove)
Mike convinces Kenny to leave her and Kenny tells clem something along the lines of "You had no right" and then they run off..
The whole "murder by omission" idea depends on context. For example, lets say Lee was eating something and then started to choke on it. Kenny is the only one present with him, and simply decides he isn't going to do anything to save Lee from choking to death. That would for sure be murder by omission, by its definition.
However, the Kenny-Lee situation that we are talking about is nothing like that. They were both trying to get away from a dangerous situation. At the point that the door falls on Lee, Kenny himself is relatively safe, but he would have had to go back and put himself in harm's way if he went back to help him. Going back to help Lee out was the morally right thing to do, but Kenny did not do it because of how his views of Lee had changed in the meat locker. When Lee forces Kenny to handle the Larry situation by himself, Kenny feels like Lee abandoned him. From that point on, Kenny lets Lee handle things on his own, because in his own mind, that is how Lee treated him back at the meat locker.
Depends on the circumstances.