Why the hell should they response to this? Every answer would draw thousand flame comments by enraged trolls and users; they would likely just make themselves more vulnerable to attacks. If it would be an interview with questions and answers, they'd answer, I'm sure. But there are just so many trolls who would rip them apart that I'd stay away from this thread as well if I was in their position.
Plus, users act like Season 2 is the worst game ever. Even if you agree with the OP, the game is still great.
I STRONGELLY RECOMMEND ANYONE TO READ THIS THREAD, YES IT LOOKS LONG BUT ONCE YOU START READING YOU WILL GET INTO IT, IT IS THE BEST POST IV… more'E SEEN ON HERE.
Thank you TT247, I agree with you 100% and I'm glad someone who also knows what's wrong with this Season has finally caught the attention and respect of the majority of this fanbase. I tried to do this but failed.
The problem is obviously the standard of writing which is so low compared to Season One, I'm sure if the previous writer had not left Tell Tale games then we would not be discussing this. The new writers are just not in the same level as Sean Vanaman, but saying that I believe you are right that most of it is just lazy writing and inconsistency.
It seems like a similar situation to the TV series as they had a change of writers for the 3rd Series which screwed things up a bit, I also noticed that Nick Breckon wrote episodes 1 and 2 but for 3 and 4 they both had differen… [view original content]
@DoubleJump you ask a valid question,i have never complained about any of season ones episodes,they are fantastic,and i thought this season was great,it was a lot shorter,yes,but still very solid stories being told,i even overlooked a lot of problems episode 3 s2 seemed to have,i still rated it a 9 out of 10,every episode is either a 9 or a 10 IMO.and the hype i was feeling for ep4 with that slide,wow...
Episode 4 changed everything,im sick to death of going over how many negative points it has,from the corny deaths to the stupid sex to the deck and magic plank on Janes head,i can only think it was massively changed due to leaks.......
i don't know why im still sticking with it? maybe because i really want Lilly to correct a lot of wrongs,ive touched before how important season 1 characters are to the game,they give the game substance and meaning because they take you back to season one when the story was told over hours each episode not just 90 minutes,but to answer your question...theres not a lot,Lilly coming back,Clem,and Kenny and maybe seeing Christa again,thats about it,the people i cared for this season are dead and have been wiped clean by Telltale,so im having to resort back to season one feelings,rather than cheer on a drone like Jane because the game wants me to.
Before I ask this question please understand that I do not mean to insult anyone I am just curious. So were 4 episodes in this season and I … moream wondering, why are you guys still here complaining about this game when you could just move on to another game you like and talk about that? If I didn't like this video game or another game then I would just move on to something I did like and focus on that. There are literally thousands of other games, why continue to focus on this one when you clearly don't like the way it's going? As I said I'm just curious and would love to hear your reasons why.
I just listened to an interview with Kevin Bruner.
Da Interview
It speaks about how the data from the games' choices help paint a "psy… morechological profile" of the player and how they try to tailor the content based on those results in a way that - in his words - speaks to the player. What then, do you think this season is trying to tell us? I see it as a challenge. A challenge to our morals in a bigger way than the one presented throughout Season One. Bigger, but not necessarily better. I saw the game challenge any ideas of idealism during last episode - the path most often taken by the players - in a way that I'd call effective to a minor extent, but it mostly feels manipulative to me.
Discuss away, if you feel inclined to do so. I'd have made this comment bigger, but I kind of lack the motivation to do so right now. Besides, my English is becoming more rubbish than usual all of a sudden.
Speaking of him, I recently discovered that he's in fact in the credits line for S2 Ep1. He's sectioned in the additional writing. So he was partially involved for at least the first episode of the season.
100% agree with op. Choices are meaningless. Continuity does not exist. Same motifs ar recycled, touched upon, and thrown away. No character development.
Did some digging and apparently the two main writers from s1 both quit telltale after 400 days, resulting in s2 being written by completely different set of people... Who are honestly, doing with a very different style and a shit job for people who care about this thread.
Unfortunately, I don't think this thread alone will make s3 any better. Twd has already become tt's money tree after receiving all its accolades during s2. If someone just played s2 alone, I doubt it would receive the same critical reception it is receiving now. I just hope things don't get any WORSE during s3. Please spend good money and hire some top notch writers/designers, you will make it back plus some with the reputation twd has.
Why the hell should they response to this? Every answer would draw thousand flame comments by enraged trolls and users; they would likely just make themselves more vulnerable to attacks.
That is what I fear would happen, but I have seen them interact with the community before, and people are always appreciative of the responses and what the staff has to say, even if we still disagree with it.
If it would be an interview with questions and answers, they'd answer, I'm sure.
Well, they have some good opportunities with Playing Dead returning.
Why the hell should they response to this? Every answer would draw thousand flame comments by enraged trolls and users; they would likely ju… morest make themselves more vulnerable to attacks. If it would be an interview with questions and answers, they'd answer, I'm sure. But there are just so many trolls who would rip them apart that I'd stay away from this thread as well if I was in their position.
Plus, users act like Season 2 is the worst game ever. Even if you agree with the OP, the game is still great.
Wonder if the 400 Days characters would have had a better role had their writers remained for Season 2. They left a lasting impression considering we only knew each of the 5 protagonists for 15 minutes.
100% agree with op. Choices are meaningless. Continuity does not exist. Same motifs ar recycled, touched upon, and thrown away. No character… more development.
Did some digging and apparently the two main writers from s1 both quit telltale after 400 days, resulting in s2 being written by completely different set of people... Who are honestly, doing with a very different style and a shit job for people who care about this thread.
Unfortunately, I don't think this thread alone will make s3 any better. Twd has already become tt's money tree after receiving all its accolades during s2. If someone just played s2 alone, I doubt it would receive the same critical reception it is receiving now. I just hope things don't get any WORSE during s3. Please spend good money and hire some top notch writers/designers, you will make it back plus some with the reputation twd has.
According to the wikia, two (maybe three) out of five writers from 400 days have written for Season Two: Mark Darin and now lead writer Nick Breckon. Sean Ainsworth, director and writer of the DLC remains at Telltale, but he is not credited for any writing this season. The other two were Gary Whitta and Sean Vanaman.
Wonder if the 400 Days characters would have had a better role had their writers remained for Season 2. They left a lasting impression considering we only knew each of the 5 protagonists for 15 minutes.
You are wrong about Clementine killing a walker until Episode 5. If you take Clementine to Crawford OR leave her with Omid, she will use a gun to save Molly from a walker OR Omid from a walker inside the house. She kills them in order to protect the group, not for herself. That's pretty heroic.
Are you serious? Umm last i checked, did Clementine WILDLY go after the bandits when they pointed guns at their group at the Motor inn? Hell… more fuckin no. She stood behind Lee and was petrified with fear. When she was attacked by a walker all the times before Episode 1, did she fight back? Absolutely not, she didn't kill a zombie herself until Episode 5 and Lee was the one who protected her every time. Also 1. I doubt you'll be anymore useful in her situation. She quite literally WOKE UP in a herd of zombies at that moment with her dad. She wasn't EXPOSED to them before.
Also 2. You're not Sarah, you don't have a mental disability, so what does your actions have any relevance? No one cares what YOU would have done.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT A DISABILITY IS? If you DID, you'd know her age is IRRELEVANT. A 30 year old man could act like a 10 year old child. You don't have to be a DOCTOR to see that. She has social anxiety disorder, and possible autism.… [view original content]
Well to be fair Telltale wants people to discuss their game and that's what everybody in here is doing, so job well done. Whether you like the game or think it has bad/good writing is all a matter of opinion which shouldn't be taken too seriously(not saying it shouldn't be taken lightly), as discussing this all should be just for fun.
Yeah. I just notice a lot of amateurish tangents, hanging plot threads that have no resolution or even any follow-up (as if it was written by a 5 year old who has no concept of plot progression), a boring, pointless storyline, and characters acting very out of character (a whole lot of 'idiot ball' holding going on). Which is sad because up to episode 2, the season had a LOT of promise.
Yeah. I just notice a lot of amateurish tangents, hanging plot threads that have no resolution or even any follow-up (as if it was written b… morey a 5 year old who has no concept of plot progression), a boring, pointless storyline, and characters acting very out of character (a whole lot of 'idiot ball' holding going on). Which is sad because up to episode 2, the season had a LOT of promise.
I don't see it as pandering to such an extreme position, but rather a badly presented challenge to the morals and viewpoints of the majority of the people.
I think the intention is not to make glorified badasses out of the violent people, nor incite hate for the "weak", but rather present an argument that I think S1 and the fucking TV show have handled better: You sometimes have to make hard choices, cruel or selfish to a degree in order to survive and to protect what you love; that doesn't mean abandoning the core values which make our society work, or giving up on people, but it means tempering said values with a healthy dose of pragmatism. However, I said a few pages back that it is not a real dilemma when the writers are consciously and constantly botching the alternative to the "badass loner survivalist" option.
Season Two is saying:
"You want to be the hero, be selfless, be a good person? TOO BAD, those things kill you! Look at Walter and his cartoonishly generous group, look at the lost case of Sarah, look at all these badly constructed characters who are rigged to break. (No, it is not a natural progression, it is an arbitrary breakdown because our story demands it) Being good is bad!"
Hell, 400 days had an interesting dilemma with palpable consequences regarding compassion and ruthlessness in Shel's story. There were consequences for letting that stranger walk away. Granted, the game in the form of that asshole Roman forced you into that or an extreme final solution, but even there it felt more natural to me, because the illusion was maintained by the cast around our protagonist who acted human about the path taken and what it brought upon them.
And that's what I mean when I talk about "wannabe survivalists" and "social Darwinists". This series seems to draw people who defend the ac… moretions of aggressive male characters especially when they're outright villains, and heap hatred on the 'weak' even though it's likely those people would be in the same situation. It's a primitive attitude that seems to come from people who haven't actually gone through hardship, and it bothers me because the series SHOULDN'T be about glorifying violence, selfishness and posturing. Clementine should represent the antithesis to those attributes.
The caricature of Troy seems to me to represent what those wannabe tough-guys would really be like.
It's not about disagreeing. If there would be a community question, an answer and a community reply (with the community posts written by a person who is not an enraged troll but someone who is actually able to discuss and try to find some common ground) I'm sure they'd reply. Plus, they never answered to this kind of thread before, and they do that for a reason (because trolls would just use their own words against them). If they'd be like ("We're sorry, we'll try to improve") and they don't change stuff for the fifth episode (because it's already written and partly finished), the community would tell them they are liars. If they defend themselves, the enraged trolls would attack.
I think it's good that they don't respond. Plus, I think that most of the people in this thread are in rage mode right now, because 90% percent of the people here think that Telltale should be "ashamed". I disgust those people. What should they be "ashamed" of?? People should be ashamed for stuff like "The Room" or "Birdemic 2". Nothing to be ashamed of regarding TWD S2. It's a great game, of course it has it's flaws, and of course some people think there's wasted potential. But this thread is 90% hating and I'm okay with telltale not replying.
Why the hell should they response to this? Every answer would draw thousand flame comments by enraged trolls and users; they would likely ju… morest make themselves more vulnerable to attacks.
That is what I fear would happen, but I have seen them interact with the community before, and people are always appreciative of the responses and what the staff has to say, even if we still disagree with it.
If it would be an interview with questions and answers, they'd answer, I'm sure.
Well, they have some good opportunities with Playing Dead returning.
If there would be a community question, an answer and a community reply (with the community posts written by a person who is not an enraged troll but someone who is actually able to discuss and try to find some common ground) I'm sure they'd reply.
That's not a bad idea, actually. I'd like to let any member post in that kind of discussion, with the threat of a ban should he/she prove unnecessarily disrespectful, but that would probably take too much effort to organize here.
Plus, they never answered to this kind of thread before
There are a couple more, but I could not find them. They don't respond often, but they interact with people here from time to time.
I don't see this thread as being full with blind hate, but perhaps it is not the best place for a member of the staff to comment and counter what's been said.
It's not about disagreeing. If there would be a community question, an answer and a community reply (with the community posts written by a p… moreerson who is not an enraged troll but someone who is actually able to discuss and try to find some common ground) I'm sure they'd reply. Plus, they never answered to this kind of thread before, and they do that for a reason (because trolls would just use their own words against them). If they'd be like ("We're sorry, we'll try to improve") and they don't change stuff for the fifth episode (because it's already written and partly finished), the community would tell them they are liars. If they defend themselves, the enraged trolls would attack.
I think it's good that they don't respond. Plus, I think that most of the people in this thread are in rage mode right now, because 90% percent of the people here think that Telltale should be "ashamed". I disgust those people. What should they be "ashamed" of?? … [view original content]
There's a difference, because in this thread, (I agree with you, it's not full of blind hate), there is a lot of hating. The OP, even if he did make some good points, said "Shame on You, Tellltale". That is NOT a basis where Telltale would EVER have a discussion. The Discussions you posted were not NEARLY as full of hate as this.
I agree with you, an organized question where only certain people are allowed to write would be great, I'd love to see Telltale answer then (but only after the season is finished, because they'd get an incredible amount of hate after episode 5 if they made promises or excuses in this talk). But it's hard to organize and even harder to realize.
If there would be a community question, an answer and a community reply (with the community posts written by a person who is not an enraged … moretroll but someone who is actually able to discuss and try to find some common ground) I'm sure they'd reply.
That's not a bad idea, actually. I'd like to let any member post in that kind of discussion, with the threat of a ban should he/she prove unnecessarily disrespectful, but that would probably take too much effort to organize here.
Plus, they never answered to this kind of thread before
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/63090/why-telltale-making-their-games-shorter/p3
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/1396584#Comment_1396584
There are a couple more, but I could not find them. They don't respond often, but they interact with people here from time to time.
I don't see this thread as being full with blind hate, but perhaps it is not the best place for a member of the staff to comment and counter what's been said.
They whooshed past in a two second cutscene and there you have another problem: only Bonnie has made it to become a regular character, but everything we learned about her in 400 Days are void, null and obsolete. And the others? Nothing. 400 Days was pretty much a waste of harddrive space if this is the way they are going to treat them. I would have loved seeing more of them, especially since we only got about 20 minutes with each one.
Now here's the kicker: we were told that those characters would make a great impact on season 2. Yeah, one character turned into a hangaraound and if you blinked you missed the others.
Just add that to the minus account for season 2. It's just another post, and the season can't get worse.
Wonder if the 400 Days characters would have had a better role had their writers remained for Season 2. They left a lasting impression considering we only knew each of the 5 protagonists for 15 minutes.
Of course, I strongly agree with OP. This season is a festival of inconsistency, and Ep4 is a complete trash in that department. I posted my thoughts on this in some threads before, I guess I will post them here too:
Decisions that don't matter - killing an interesting character offscreen (Nick), making Kenny a jerk who blames everyone for everything, forcing us to choose between two characters who will be both gone anyway by the end of the episode, broken storyline (Carver killed Alvin in episode 2 in my playthrough and the episode states that Alvin stood up to Carver, what the hell?!), adult characters behave like dumbasses (Luke with keeping watch; Mike and Bonnie are searching the museum for an hour and YET it's the Clementine who finds water by LIFTING THE GRATE!) establishing a new group of 'villains' for the final episode about whom we do not know anything (except they're BAD because reasons), ending the episode with the exact same cliffhanger as in two previous episodes - the group in peril (oh, how original). I am not saying that everybody needs to die as a hero. But take Nick - I know that his determinant status was probably a problem for TT, but many players (me included) decided to keep him alive because of his interesting background and character in general. And then, without warning, he gets killed offscreen with no proper send off. For instance, I'm NOT OKAY with him suddenly appearing as a walker, with TT thinking that will be enough as a closure. With everything that happened, I would take it a lot better if we were shown that he was bitten/killed during the herd scene (because I knew that he will die anyway - determinant characters never make it to the end of the season), but what was done in the game felt like a cheap trick. Sarah - she FINALLY had a potential to become an interesting character. She was naive and innocent, just like Clementine in S1. I thought that with a major turning point in her life - THE DEATH OF HER GUARDIAN - she would finaly snap and learn new survival skills, for TT to show that while no one gave her any chance, she would oultive all those scheming adults. All the build up - becoming friends with Clem, teaching Sarah how to use a gun - was thrown out of the window. The thing is, with previous episodes where you could help her and teach her to use a gun etc. Episode 4 FINALY gave me hope that Sarah WILL change with the most powerful scene of the episode which many people probably missed if she died in the trailer - trying to convince her by talking doesn't work and the Clementine finaly SLAPS her. That's when Sarah starts to understand the situation around her - a second shock that, after passing, could have resulted in her finally accepting Carlos's death and learning to survive. But no, Telltale decided to troll everyone. "Oh, you saved her? That's funny, guess who will die in the next 40 minutes...That arc was a proof that TT doesn't know where each character's development is going (and with constant changes in behaviour, there is no consistency between episodes). In the trailer park, Sarah struck me as willing to die, that Carlos's death was too much. But after getting her out of there (and Clem slapping her) something has changed. When she fell from the observation deck, she was again surrounded by walkers, but she wasn't passive - she was shouting FOR HELP, she was willing TO LIVE - and I'm sure that if she wasn't trapped, she would make her way past the walkers by herself. Her enitre arc was a build up towards something bigger - in episode 1 she showed compassion towards Clementine and gave her the medicine; in episode 2 she was taught how to use a gun; in episode 3 she had to face Carver and learn the consequences of her actions so I was sure that episode 4 will start with her (slowly) coming to terms with her father's death. This kind of shock should ironically gave her wings. Unfortunately, she couldn't make it past the obstacle called 'Telltale's writers', so we'll never know how she would handle herself after accepting Carlos's fate. We do know that after surviving the trailer park incident, she wanted to live. Sarah is killed no matter what, but at least saving Jane over her would give us some compensation. But NO - Jane is gone in the VERY NEXT SCENE ANYWAY! What's the purpose of chosing between characters (arguably both Sarah and Jane are the characters on which the ep is focused) who will disappear no matter what? I know why - because creating too many branching storylines was the problem which TT even pointed out before the release of TWD S1 finale and they're probably trying to avoid it now. The thing is, by doing that they have completely ruined the main - and ONLY - game mechanic in TWD. What's the point of saying that the story is tailored by how I play when it's NOT? Although S1 treaded along one scripted path, the changes and alterations made up for a unique experience for every player. The same cannot be said about S2 and episode 4 in particular. No consequence of choices = no unique experience. The story is supposed to be tailored by how I play - and it was in Season 1. Now Telltale is not even pretending anymore. As this is a sole reason of why these games had so much impact, taking out the meaningfull choices is a disaster.
I don't really care about what happens to Christa's baby because it's not important that we know because Clem knows. I heard this somewhere recently about abrupt endings and how they can be satisfying under the impression that we don't need to know anything because the characters know it.
I agree with both of you, and don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Kenny being the one to help Rebecca. But the thing is, we were… more just blatantly denied the perfect opportunity to find out about what happened to Christa's baby, for no reason at all. Kenny helping in the birth makes sense, but Clementine not mentioning or even looking like she remembers anything about Christa's baby does not.
This is the best thing I've ever read on this forum. You and the others that agree with you hit every point I've had in my head for months but have never been to articulate very well. Seriously thank you and good job.
Sorry for not posting for a few days. I was nervous about how people would react to what I would have to say about this. I have told others in RL about the incident but they didn't believe me. It relates mostly to an issue that has greatly effected me so I'm going to try to explain without getting too into the particular incident that happened to me that triggered these particular symptoms.
At the time I was trying to get away from my tormentors by trying to run away. My legs actually stopped working while I was trying to get away. NOT like weakness where your still able move but more like suddenly completely non-functioning noodle legs. Which I then proceeded to try to get away by crawling on my belly making my tormentors torment me more. I ended up curling up into a ball similar to how Sarah was and trembling as if I was freezing to death. When anyone tried to speak to me to get me get up all I could say was things like "I can't" and "why is this happening?". Yes shortness of breath was there but its was more of not being able to speak about why I was on the floor like that.
There is a thing I must say. I was diagnosed with aspergers, anxiety, (both which is medicated) and diagnosed with co-dependency. (medicated with the anxiety meds) I have found that the internet descriptions of all three of this disorders being fairly inaccurate to my own. If anyone thinks they may have one or more of these issues then look into getting diagnosed by a professional.
As for for Sarah I think she is portrayed fairly accurate to all three of the disorders that I have.
Alright. Thanks for clarifying. I hadn't heard of those symptoms before. If you yourself have suffered from these and are comfortable sharin… moreg, I'd be curious to know more about how these manifest. Do you feel like you can't control your legs at all or is it more a feeling of weakness? Are you unable to talk because of breathing issues, are you able to mentally generate words but unable to output them, or is there a difficulty in verbal thinking altogether? Again, you don't have to answer if you don't know of don't feel comfortable.
Also, as someone with both the conditions that people attribute to Sarah, do you think they portrayed her accurately as someone with these disorders or were there missteps in how they presented some of her behavior?
Again, who says hes ever seen her in this condition. He knows shes sheltered, but he doesn't know that she was broken from the start. Also you still sound like child who didn't get their way. "And it does not excuse the fact that we are never given the chance to RECOGNIZE that there was no time to properly respond to Sarah's panic attack, or to show an effort to comfort her after it happens." Who cares about that shit? only people who actually like Sarah like you. There is nothing wrong with liking sarah, but your using your own personal feelings as way to say that Telltale did a bad thing with how they treated her. Tney wanted to treat her bad and kill her off, cool. It is THEIR story.
Luke can be heard saying to Sarah in the trailer before you come in "I don't know what the hell is wrong with you." And you just agreed with… more me that Luke obviously DOES know "what the hell is wrong". Sarah's father just died. Luke obviously knows that's why she's having a breakdown.
Just because there's not enough time does not change or excuse the fact that the only possible way to get Sarah to move in a completely disrespectful way. It does not change the fact that Clementine as she slaps her has an expression of anger and disgust. And it does not excuse the fact that we are never given the chance to RECOGNIZE that there was no time to properly respond to Sarah's panic attack, or to show an effort to comfort her after it happens.
Alright. Thanks for clarifying. I hadn't heard of those symptoms before. If you yourself have suffered from these and are comfortable sharin… moreg, I'd be curious to know more about how these manifest. Do you feel like you can't control your legs at all or is it more a feeling of weakness? Are you unable to talk because of breathing issues, are you able to mentally generate words but unable to output them, or is there a difficulty in verbal thinking altogether? Again, you don't have to answer if you don't know of don't feel comfortable.
Also, as someone with both the conditions that people attribute to Sarah, do you think they portrayed her accurately as someone with these disorders or were there missteps in how they presented some of her behavior?
Thank you for sharing with me your experiences, Lumlotus. I'm sorry that you had to go through the trauma that you did and I'm especially sorry if my asking you to describe your experience caused you to relive that pain.
The symptoms you describe are very intriguing and they do seem incredibly similar to the symptoms that Sarah was exhibiting in Episode 4. I had assumed that Telltale had only done some basic research looking into Sarah's disorders. But now I'm wondering if there might have been someone on staff at Telltale who had a similar experience as you did and was able to give their insight into the behaviors that Sarah would exhibit.
Anyway, thank you again for indulging my curiosity.
Sorry for not posting for a few days. I was nervous about how people would react to what I would have to say about this. I have told others … morein RL about the incident but they didn't believe me. It relates mostly to an issue that has greatly effected me so I'm going to try to explain without getting too into the particular incident that happened to me that triggered these particular symptoms.
At the time I was trying to get away from my tormentors by trying to run away. My legs actually stopped working while I was trying to get away. NOT like weakness where your still able move but more like suddenly completely non-functioning noodle legs. Which I then proceeded to try to get away by crawling on my belly making my tormentors torment me more. I ended up curling up into a ball similar to how Sarah was and trembling as if I was freezing to death. When anyone tried to speak to me to get me get up all I could say was things like "I can't" and "wh… [view original content]
Regardless of the developers' intentions, the end result is that the bleakness of Season 2 seems to encourage the extreme perspectives of those who'd rather play as a selfish, murderous bastard.
I don't see it as pandering to such an extreme position, but rather a badly presented challenge to the morals and viewpoints of the majority… more of the people.
I think the intention is not to make glorified badasses out of the violent people, nor incite hate for the "weak", but rather present an argument that I think S1 and the fucking TV show have handled better: You sometimes have to make hard choices, cruel or selfish to a degree in order to survive and to protect what you love; that doesn't mean abandoning the core values which make our society work, or giving up on people, but it means tempering said values with a healthy dose of pragmatism. However, I said a few pages back that it is not a real dilemma when the writers are consciously and constantly botching the alternative to the "badass loner survivalist" option.
Season Two is saying:
"You want to be the hero, be selfless, be a good person? TOO BAD, those things kill you! Look at… [view original content]
At first I was just going to post this in response to aldimon up there, but it got too long so here we are.
First off, to aldimon and everyone else calling me a dude, last I heard it was common courtesy to refer to ppl who you don’t know online as “he/she” or gender neutral. Stop calling me a dude.
Now that we’ve got that with that out of the way, moving on.
Since it doesn’t seem like Telltale’s ever going to show up in this thread anyway, I’m just going to let loose. There are actual reasons why I said “shame on Telltale.” This isn’t enraged trolling. This isn’t blind hate. Go ahead and call it that if you want. But it’d probably make more sense to actually read what I’m saying before you go all apeshit on me.
Telltale Games is hailed as being the cutting-edge of story-based gaming. They themselves embrace and emphasize this reputation of being the creators of these engaging and emotional interactive stories, pounding it into our heads: the story matters, the choices matter, the fans matter.
This season, Telltale gave us once again, a hugely diverse and interesting range of characters. People we could root for, people we could see ourselves in. Telltale’s dedicated fanbase dove in, discussing and analyzing the story and these lifelike characters, just as Telltale encourages them to do.
Meanwhile there were other voices, the ones going around calling Nick a "spineless little whiner" or saying that "Sarita brings nothing to the story", or being all “Sarah is so useless, can’t wait to kill her LOL.”
The other fans in the meantime recognized the potential and the value that characters like these bring to a story, and couldn’t wait for Telltale to deliver. Fans were completely confident that these characters would continue to have a purpose, and that even though the Walking Dead game world may not be merciful to them, that the writers would continue to treat them respectfully, and that when their time finally comes, it would be in service to the story, satisfying, or at the very least, creative.
But instead, in the space of one episode, those characters are suddenly and completely gone.With no purpose, no reaction, and no emotion. Now, the diehard fans, look STUPID for defending Telltale's own characters. Those who once had the utmost confidence that Telltale would pull themselves out of their midseason slump and wouldn’t play into lazy and clichéd stereotypes or tropes have just been slapped in the face.
And for what? The only argument that can be made, that the story is trying to illustrate some Jane-like survival of the fittest mentality, is not only offensive but completely contradictory to all prior writing. Telltale's own writing which previously had shown nuance and strong involvement with these characters, has been dumped. For absolutely NOTHING. The only “themes” that their deaths can even be THEORIZED to serve are either extremely weak or completely nonexistent. There is no focus, no meaning, and no purpose.
People have already talked at length about why Sarah and Nick’s deaths are a complete fail, so let’s move on to a few other ppl.
Sarita no longer is treated as an actual person, she doesn't even have a single line in the episode. Chopping her arm or the zombie doesn’t make an ounce of difference. Afterwards, nobody even notices she’s gone except Kenny. And then his feelings are reduced to Ooooo is he going to “snap”? Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Why? Why are we doing this again? And then if Sarita does survive a little longer, it’s even better. You can’t talk to her or even acknowledge her presence; she just lies in Kenny’s arms gurgling while he pets her like a dying cat. The only remotely involving dialogue choice is “I’m sorry about Sarita” WHILE SHE’S LYING RIGHT FUCKING THERE. That’s not tragic, it’s not emotional. It’s dehumanizing, disrespectful, and completely lazy.
Carlos meanwhile was barely mentioned again. There was no moment of “Well gee, we just lost our group leader; not only a smart man but a friggin DOCTOR, one of the most valuable kinds of people in an apocalypse. How on earth are we going to have a chance at bringing Rebecca’s baby into the world safely?” Nope, none of that here! There was not even the slightest trace of an “oh crap” moment, let alone genuine emotion. Did anyone even MENTION Carlos more than twice in some offhand comment? No. So why would their audience care? The only reason Carlos dies? So Sarah can break down. The only reason Sarah breaks down? To give even MORE unneeded focus to a rehashed ripoff character which we do not even need when she immediately walks away from the story, no doubt never to be seen again, with absolutely no consequence or purpose whatsoever.
Jane: “Sarah wants to die, Clem, you can’t save her” and meanwhile Sarah screams for help in the background and no one else in the cabin group even attempts to help. Then immediately after she is eaten alive, we are treated to a heartwarming scene in which we celebrate new life and sisterly bonds, while the corpse of our 15 year old companion is too fresh to even begin decomposing.
And about Rebecca, isn’t it so innovative how she played right into the “woman dies from childbirth” cliché? It’s so well done, am I right? I especially enjoyed how she suddenly dropped dead from hypothermia and turned into a zombie all under the space of 30 seconds.
Telltale continues to ignore all criticism and pats themselves on the back while continuing to claim that their story rocks and they love their fans so much. They continue to retweet gushing reviews and “I’m crying, I’m so emotional” and this “Telltale is so groundbreaking” blah blah blah when it is so painfully clear: choices do not matter. The story does not matter. Characters do not matter. The fans do not matter.
How come I've never seen this thread before?
Of course, I strongly agree with OP. This season is a festival of inconsistency, and Ep4 is … morea complete trash in that department. I posted my thoughts on this in some threads before, I guess I will post them here too:
Decisions that don't matter - killing an interesting character offscreen (Nick), making Kenny a jerk who blames everyone for everything, forcing us to choose between two characters who will be both gone anyway by the end of the episode, broken storyline (Carver killed Alvin in episode 2 in my playthrough and the episode states that Alvin stood up to Carver, what the hell?!), adult characters behave like dumbasses (Luke with keeping watch; Mike and Bonnie are searching the museum for an hour and YET it's the Clementine who finds water by LIFTING THE GRATE!) establishing a new group of 'villains' for the final episode about whom we do not know anything (except they're BAD becaus… [view original content]
Should they retweet that crap you wrote? Why should they? There are tons of people out there who love their storytelling. If I was in their position I'd do the exact same thing. I would never answer in a thread like that, I'd only get attacked by tons of people.
And that stuff you wrote is not legitimate criticism. It's not blind hate either, but it's blowing things WAY out of proportion. It's not well written, you are repeating yourself over and over and over and I can't read this shit anymore.
I'd try to defend the season and argue with you, but It's not worth my time.
At first I was just going to post this in response to aldimon up there, but it got too long so here we are.
First off, to aldimon and eve… moreryone else calling me a dude, last I heard it was common courtesy to refer to ppl who you don’t know online as “he/she” or gender neutral. Stop calling me a dude.
Now that we’ve got that with that out of the way, moving on.
Since it doesn’t seem like Telltale’s ever going to show up in this thread anyway, I’m just going to let loose. There are actual reasons why I said “shame on Telltale.” This isn’t enraged trolling. This isn’t blind hate. Go ahead and call it that if you want. But it’d probably make more sense to actually read what I’m saying before you go all apeshit on me.
Telltale Games is hailed as being the cutting-edge of story-based gaming. They themselves embrace and emphasize this reputation of being the creators of these engaging and emotional interactive stories, pounding it into our… [view original content]
Excellent summation of characterization in season 2.
What could be added though is that TTGs laziness goes further, even using season 1 characters as templates making the new characters indistinguashable from them in season 1: Nick is the new Ben. Jane is the new Molly*. Rebecca is the new Christa. Heck, even Alvin lend so much characteristics from Omid that it gets silly.
This is not only bad, its incredible lazy. TTG made a name for itself for being able to create fantastic, likable (or hatable) characters that we could relate to for real. And then they come and do this to us? I remember that I during the intermission between the seasons was full of confidence and actually defended TTG when concerns were raised against new characters. I was convinced TTG would manage to create new interesting characters we could love or hate.
Guess the joke is on me now.
*And why oh why do we really need an Action Girl everywhere? The TV show have Michonne, we got Molly and her clone Jane. Its simply not realistic. Lilly was a better and more realistic tough woman, and she didn't have any of that action.
At first I was just going to post this in response to aldimon up there, but it got too long so here we are.
First off, to aldimon and eve… moreryone else calling me a dude, last I heard it was common courtesy to refer to ppl who you don’t know online as “he/she” or gender neutral. Stop calling me a dude.
Now that we’ve got that with that out of the way, moving on.
Since it doesn’t seem like Telltale’s ever going to show up in this thread anyway, I’m just going to let loose. There are actual reasons why I said “shame on Telltale.” This isn’t enraged trolling. This isn’t blind hate. Go ahead and call it that if you want. But it’d probably make more sense to actually read what I’m saying before you go all apeshit on me.
Telltale Games is hailed as being the cutting-edge of story-based gaming. They themselves embrace and emphasize this reputation of being the creators of these engaging and emotional interactive stories, pounding it into our… [view original content]
Should they retweet that crap you wrote? Why should they? There are tons of people out there who love their storytelling. If I was in their … moreposition I'd do the exact same thing. I would never answer in a thread like that, I'd only get attacked by tons of people.
And that stuff you wrote is not legitimate criticism. It's not blind hate either, but it's blowing things WAY out of proportion. It's not well written, you are repeating yourself over and over and over and I can't read this shit anymore.
I'd try to defend the season and argue with you, but It's not worth my time.
Christa would have been a more interesting character, since we know she's competent and strong-willed without needing to be seen as an unstoppable zombie killer. Plus there's been no development regarding the relationship Clem had with her (or her own parents), despite spending far longer amounts of time with them than Lee. There's no excuse for that - it's just lazily banking on the players' memories of Season 1 rather than staying true to the character.
Excellent summation of characterization in season 2.
What could be added though is that TTGs laziness goes further, even using season 1 c… moreharacters as templates making the new characters indistinguashable from them in season 1: Nick is the new Ben. Jane is the new Molly*. Rebecca is the new Christa. Heck, even Alvin lend so much characteristics from Omid that it gets silly.
This is not only bad, its incredible lazy. TTG made a name for itself for being able to create fantastic, likable (or hatable) characters that we could relate to for real. And then they come and do this to us? I remember that I during the intermission between the seasons was full of confidence and actually defended TTG when concerns were raised against new characters. I was convinced TTG would manage to create new interesting characters we could love or hate.
Guess the joke is on me now.
*And why oh why do we really need an Action Girl everywhere? The TV show ha… [view original content]
I don't know about anyone else but the reason that I find myself repeating similar arguments is that every now and again somebody pops up and says "but guys, you OBVIOUSLY haven't considered what Telltale was trying to do..." or "Episode 4 was fantastic, Season 2 is fantastic, I don't know what you're saying", making it a necessity to inform and to argue a case that has already been presented and that those people don't seem to comprehend yet. It's general courtesy, not to mention freedom of speech; forgive me for sounding rude, but it seems to me like your understanding of "legitimate criticism" is "anything that I personally agree with."
Nobody expects Telltale to retweet criticism, and they don't really HAVE to change the way they make their content if they don't want to, but if people are frustrated about that content, when they've already paid for it, then they have a right to criticise, even if YOU don't agree with that criticism, and Telltale can hardly complain then if those people stop supporting them. I don't really understand why it's so hard to respect someone else's opinion, but if you're looking for yours to be taken seriously then calling what is in my view a well-considered argument "shit" or "crap" or whatever lingo you crazy kids are using these days, is probably not the best way to do that.
I think what this season is telling us that the game gave up on us... (thx Kevin).
There has to be some alternative to have better changes.... TTG really did abandoned us....
the game didn't "talk to me," the game gave me a middle finger.
I just listened to an interview with Kevin Bruner.
Da Interview
It speaks about how the data from the games' choices help paint a "psy… morechological profile" of the player and how they try to tailor the content based on those results in a way that - in his words - speaks to the player. What then, do you think this season is trying to tell us? I see it as a challenge. A challenge to our morals in a bigger way than the one presented throughout Season One. Bigger, but not necessarily better. I saw the game challenge any ideas of idealism during last episode - the path most often taken by the players - in a way that I'd call effective to a minor extent, but it mostly feels manipulative to me.
Discuss away, if you feel inclined to do so. I'd have made this comment bigger, but I kind of lack the motivation to do so right now. Besides, my English is becoming more rubbish than usual all of a sudden.
I think what this season is telling us that the game gave up on us... (thx Kevin).
There has to be some alternative to have better changes.... TTG really did abandoned us....
the game didn't "talk to me," the game gave me a middle finger.
great post yet again @TT247 ,Sarita dying in Kennys arms but minimally concious would of been a time when she could of added a lot about her character,her beliefs in dying maybe? or to reassure Clem that she was doing her best in what words she had the strength left to use,i can only think time restraints of trying to keep the episode short had something with not exploring more of her death and character.
the leaked death of Rebecca in childbirth with the bloody towel would of been grusome,but this game is aimed at adults! NOT CHILDREN! so for Telltale tweeting that people are crying etc etc it sounds like they are aiming the game at teens,and the scrapped content was a little too adult
At first I was just going to post this in response to aldimon up there, but it got too long so here we are.
First off, to aldimon and eve… moreryone else calling me a dude, last I heard it was common courtesy to refer to ppl who you don’t know online as “he/she” or gender neutral. Stop calling me a dude.
Now that we’ve got that with that out of the way, moving on.
Since it doesn’t seem like Telltale’s ever going to show up in this thread anyway, I’m just going to let loose. There are actual reasons why I said “shame on Telltale.” This isn’t enraged trolling. This isn’t blind hate. Go ahead and call it that if you want. But it’d probably make more sense to actually read what I’m saying before you go all apeshit on me.
Telltale Games is hailed as being the cutting-edge of story-based gaming. They themselves embrace and emphasize this reputation of being the creators of these engaging and emotional interactive stories, pounding it into our… [view original content]
Comments
Why the hell should they response to this? Every answer would draw thousand flame comments by enraged trolls and users; they would likely just make themselves more vulnerable to attacks. If it would be an interview with questions and answers, they'd answer, I'm sure. But there are just so many trolls who would rip them apart that I'd stay away from this thread as well if I was in their position.
Plus, users act like Season 2 is the worst game ever. Even if you agree with the OP, the game is still great.
Especially Wyatt's.
Who calls a little girl "dude?"
Yep just so crap isn't it.
@DoubleJump you ask a valid question,i have never complained about any of season ones episodes,they are fantastic,and i thought this season was great,it was a lot shorter,yes,but still very solid stories being told,i even overlooked a lot of problems episode 3 s2 seemed to have,i still rated it a 9 out of 10,every episode is either a 9 or a 10 IMO.and the hype i was feeling for ep4 with that slide,wow...
Episode 4 changed everything,im sick to death of going over how many negative points it has,from the corny deaths to the stupid sex to the deck and magic plank on Janes head,i can only think it was massively changed due to leaks.......
i don't know why im still sticking with it? maybe because i really want Lilly to correct a lot of wrongs,ive touched before how important season 1 characters are to the game,they give the game substance and meaning because they take you back to season one when the story was told over hours each episode not just 90 minutes,but to answer your question...theres not a lot,Lilly coming back,Clem,and Kenny and maybe seeing Christa again,thats about it,the people i cared for this season are dead and have been wiped clean by Telltale,so im having to resort back to season one feelings,rather than cheer on a drone like Jane because the game wants me to.
definetly Jane is Telltale,ive been saying this since episode 4
don't think so,well not yet anyway, @puzzlebox might,or even Jake @Jake ,or even @harrisonpink @MarkDarin ?
Speaking of him, I recently discovered that he's in fact in the credits line for S2 Ep1. He's sectioned in the additional writing. So he was partially involved for at least the first episode of the season.
100% agree with op. Choices are meaningless. Continuity does not exist. Same motifs ar recycled, touched upon, and thrown away. No character development.
Did some digging and apparently the two main writers from s1 both quit telltale after 400 days, resulting in s2 being written by completely different set of people... Who are honestly, doing with a very different style and a shit job for people who care about this thread.
Unfortunately, I don't think this thread alone will make s3 any better. Twd has already become tt's money tree after receiving all its accolades during s2. If someone just played s2 alone, I doubt it would receive the same critical reception it is receiving now. I just hope things don't get any WORSE during s3. Please spend good money and hire some top notch writers/designers, you will make it back plus some with the reputation twd has.
That is what I fear would happen, but I have seen them interact with the community before, and people are always appreciative of the responses and what the staff has to say, even if we still disagree with it.
Well, they have some good opportunities with Playing Dead returning.
Wonder if the 400 Days characters would have had a better role had their writers remained for Season 2. They left a lasting impression considering we only knew each of the 5 protagonists for 15 minutes.
According to the wikia, two (maybe three) out of five writers from 400 days have written for Season Two: Mark Darin and now lead writer Nick Breckon. Sean Ainsworth, director and writer of the DLC remains at Telltale, but he is not credited for any writing this season. The other two were Gary Whitta and Sean Vanaman.
You are wrong about Clementine killing a walker until Episode 5. If you take Clementine to Crawford OR leave her with Omid, she will use a gun to save Molly from a walker OR Omid from a walker inside the house. She kills them in order to protect the group, not for herself. That's pretty heroic.
Well to be fair Telltale wants people to discuss their game and that's what everybody in here is doing, so job well done. Whether you like the game or think it has bad/good writing is all a matter of opinion which shouldn't be taken too seriously(not saying it shouldn't be taken lightly), as discussing this all should be just for fun.
Yeah. I just notice a lot of amateurish tangents, hanging plot threads that have no resolution or even any follow-up (as if it was written by a 5 year old who has no concept of plot progression), a boring, pointless storyline, and characters acting very out of character (a whole lot of 'idiot ball' holding going on). Which is sad because up to episode 2, the season had a LOT of promise.
They should've got Nick Breckon to write all 5 episodes.
I don't see it as pandering to such an extreme position, but rather a badly presented challenge to the morals and viewpoints of the majority of the people.
I think the intention is not to make glorified badasses out of the violent people, nor incite hate for the "weak", but rather present an argument that I think S1 and the fucking TV show have handled better: You sometimes have to make hard choices, cruel or selfish to a degree in order to survive and to protect what you love; that doesn't mean abandoning the core values which make our society work, or giving up on people, but it means tempering said values with a healthy dose of pragmatism. However, I said a few pages back that it is not a real dilemma when the writers are consciously and constantly botching the alternative to the "badass loner survivalist" option.
Season Two is saying:
"You want to be the hero, be selfless, be a good person? TOO BAD, those things kill you! Look at Walter and his cartoonishly generous group, look at the lost case of Sarah, look at all these badly constructed characters who are rigged to break. (No, it is not a natural progression, it is an arbitrary breakdown because our story demands it) Being good is bad!"
Hell, 400 days had an interesting dilemma with palpable consequences regarding compassion and ruthlessness in Shel's story. There were consequences for letting that stranger walk away. Granted, the game in the form of that asshole Roman forced you into that or an extreme final solution, but even there it felt more natural to me, because the illusion was maintained by the cast around our protagonist who acted human about the path taken and what it brought upon them.
It's not about disagreeing. If there would be a community question, an answer and a community reply (with the community posts written by a person who is not an enraged troll but someone who is actually able to discuss and try to find some common ground) I'm sure they'd reply. Plus, they never answered to this kind of thread before, and they do that for a reason (because trolls would just use their own words against them). If they'd be like ("We're sorry, we'll try to improve") and they don't change stuff for the fifth episode (because it's already written and partly finished), the community would tell them they are liars. If they defend themselves, the enraged trolls would attack.
I think it's good that they don't respond. Plus, I think that most of the people in this thread are in rage mode right now, because 90% percent of the people here think that Telltale should be "ashamed". I disgust those people. What should they be "ashamed" of?? People should be ashamed for stuff like "The Room" or "Birdemic 2". Nothing to be ashamed of regarding TWD S2. It's a great game, of course it has it's flaws, and of course some people think there's wasted potential. But this thread is 90% hating and I'm okay with telltale not replying.
That's not a bad idea, actually. I'd like to let any member post in that kind of discussion, with the threat of a ban should he/she prove unnecessarily disrespectful, but that would probably take too much effort to organize here.
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/63090/why-telltale-making-their-games-shorter/p3
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/1396584#Comment_1396584
There are a couple more, but I could not find them. They don't respond often, but they interact with people here from time to time.
I don't see this thread as being full with blind hate, but perhaps it is not the best place for a member of the staff to comment and counter what's been said.
There's a difference, because in this thread, (I agree with you, it's not full of blind hate), there is a lot of hating. The OP, even if he did make some good points, said "Shame on You, Tellltale". That is NOT a basis where Telltale would EVER have a discussion. The Discussions you posted were not NEARLY as full of hate as this.
I agree with you, an organized question where only certain people are allowed to write would be great, I'd love to see Telltale answer then (but only after the season is finished, because they'd get an incredible amount of hate after episode 5 if they made promises or excuses in this talk). But it's hard to organize and even harder to realize.
They won't reply axs aldimon already pointed out - but you can be damn sure they read it.
They whooshed past in a two second cutscene and there you have another problem: only Bonnie has made it to become a regular character, but everything we learned about her in 400 Days are void, null and obsolete. And the others? Nothing. 400 Days was pretty much a waste of harddrive space if this is the way they are going to treat them. I would have loved seeing more of them, especially since we only got about 20 minutes with each one.
Now here's the kicker: we were told that those characters would make a great impact on season 2. Yeah, one character turned into a hangaraound and if you blinked you missed the others.
Just add that to the minus account for season 2. It's just another post, and the season can't get worse.
How come I've never seen this thread before?
Of course, I strongly agree with OP. This season is a festival of inconsistency, and Ep4 is a complete trash in that department. I posted my thoughts on this in some threads before, I guess I will post them here too:
I don't really care about what happens to Christa's baby because it's not important that we know because Clem knows. I heard this somewhere recently about abrupt endings and how they can be satisfying under the impression that we don't need to know anything because the characters know it.
This is the best thing I've ever read on this forum. You and the others that agree with you hit every point I've had in my head for months but have never been to articulate very well. Seriously thank you and good job.
Sorry for not posting for a few days. I was nervous about how people would react to what I would have to say about this. I have told others in RL about the incident but they didn't believe me. It relates mostly to an issue that has greatly effected me so I'm going to try to explain without getting too into the particular incident that happened to me that triggered these particular symptoms.
At the time I was trying to get away from my tormentors by trying to run away. My legs actually stopped working while I was trying to get away. NOT like weakness where your still able move but more like suddenly completely non-functioning noodle legs. Which I then proceeded to try to get away by crawling on my belly making my tormentors torment me more. I ended up curling up into a ball similar to how Sarah was and trembling as if I was freezing to death. When anyone tried to speak to me to get me get up all I could say was things like "I can't" and "why is this happening?". Yes shortness of breath was there but its was more of not being able to speak about why I was on the floor like that.
There is a thing I must say. I was diagnosed with aspergers, anxiety, (both which is medicated) and diagnosed with co-dependency. (medicated with the anxiety meds) I have found that the internet descriptions of all three of this disorders being fairly inaccurate to my own. If anyone thinks they may have one or more of these issues then look into getting diagnosed by a professional.
As for for Sarah I think she is portrayed fairly accurate to all three of the disorders that I have.
Again, who says hes ever seen her in this condition. He knows shes sheltered, but he doesn't know that she was broken from the start. Also you still sound like child who didn't get their way. "And it does not excuse the fact that we are never given the chance to RECOGNIZE that there was no time to properly respond to Sarah's panic attack, or to show an effort to comfort her after it happens." Who cares about that shit? only people who actually like Sarah like you. There is nothing wrong with liking sarah, but your using your own personal feelings as way to say that Telltale did a bad thing with how they treated her. Tney wanted to treat her bad and kill her off, cool. It is THEIR story.
Accidental double post caused by internet issues. Please delete or ignore this post.
Thank you for sharing with me your experiences, Lumlotus. I'm sorry that you had to go through the trauma that you did and I'm especially sorry if my asking you to describe your experience caused you to relive that pain.
The symptoms you describe are very intriguing and they do seem incredibly similar to the symptoms that Sarah was exhibiting in Episode 4. I had assumed that Telltale had only done some basic research looking into Sarah's disorders. But now I'm wondering if there might have been someone on staff at Telltale who had a similar experience as you did and was able to give their insight into the behaviors that Sarah would exhibit.
Anyway, thank you again for indulging my curiosity.
Regardless of the developers' intentions, the end result is that the bleakness of Season 2 seems to encourage the extreme perspectives of those who'd rather play as a selfish, murderous bastard.
At first I was just going to post this in response to aldimon up there, but it got too long so here we are.
First off, to aldimon and everyone else calling me a dude, last I heard it was common courtesy to refer to ppl who you don’t know online as “he/she” or gender neutral. Stop calling me a dude.
Now that we’ve got that with that out of the way, moving on.
Since it doesn’t seem like Telltale’s ever going to show up in this thread anyway, I’m just going to let loose. There are actual reasons why I said “shame on Telltale.” This isn’t enraged trolling. This isn’t blind hate. Go ahead and call it that if you want. But it’d probably make more sense to actually read what I’m saying before you go all apeshit on me.
Telltale Games is hailed as being the cutting-edge of story-based gaming. They themselves embrace and emphasize this reputation of being the creators of these engaging and emotional interactive stories, pounding it into our heads: the story matters, the choices matter, the fans matter.
This season, Telltale gave us once again, a hugely diverse and interesting range of characters. People we could root for, people we could see ourselves in. Telltale’s dedicated fanbase dove in, discussing and analyzing the story and these lifelike characters, just as Telltale encourages them to do.
Meanwhile there were other voices, the ones going around calling Nick a "spineless little whiner" or saying that "Sarita brings nothing to the story", or being all “Sarah is so useless, can’t wait to kill her LOL.”
The other fans in the meantime recognized the potential and the value that characters like these bring to a story, and couldn’t wait for Telltale to deliver. Fans were completely confident that these characters would continue to have a purpose, and that even though the Walking Dead game world may not be merciful to them, that the writers would continue to treat them respectfully, and that when their time finally comes, it would be in service to the story, satisfying, or at the very least, creative.
But instead, in the space of one episode, those characters are suddenly and completely gone.With no purpose, no reaction, and no emotion. Now, the diehard fans, look STUPID for defending Telltale's own characters. Those who once had the utmost confidence that Telltale would pull themselves out of their midseason slump and wouldn’t play into lazy and clichéd stereotypes or tropes have just been slapped in the face.
And for what? The only argument that can be made, that the story is trying to illustrate some Jane-like survival of the fittest mentality, is not only offensive but completely contradictory to all prior writing. Telltale's own writing which previously had shown nuance and strong involvement with these characters, has been dumped. For absolutely NOTHING. The only “themes” that their deaths can even be THEORIZED to serve are either extremely weak or completely nonexistent. There is no focus, no meaning, and no purpose.
People have already talked at length about why Sarah and Nick’s deaths are a complete fail, so let’s move on to a few other ppl.
Sarita no longer is treated as an actual person, she doesn't even have a single line in the episode. Chopping her arm or the zombie doesn’t make an ounce of difference. Afterwards, nobody even notices she’s gone except Kenny. And then his feelings are reduced to Ooooo is he going to “snap”? Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Why? Why are we doing this again? And then if Sarita does survive a little longer, it’s even better. You can’t talk to her or even acknowledge her presence; she just lies in Kenny’s arms gurgling while he pets her like a dying cat. The only remotely involving dialogue choice is “I’m sorry about Sarita” WHILE SHE’S LYING RIGHT FUCKING THERE. That’s not tragic, it’s not emotional. It’s dehumanizing, disrespectful, and completely lazy.
Carlos meanwhile was barely mentioned again. There was no moment of “Well gee, we just lost our group leader; not only a smart man but a friggin DOCTOR, one of the most valuable kinds of people in an apocalypse. How on earth are we going to have a chance at bringing Rebecca’s baby into the world safely?” Nope, none of that here! There was not even the slightest trace of an “oh crap” moment, let alone genuine emotion. Did anyone even MENTION Carlos more than twice in some offhand comment? No. So why would their audience care? The only reason Carlos dies? So Sarah can break down. The only reason Sarah breaks down? To give even MORE unneeded focus to a rehashed ripoff character which we do not even need when she immediately walks away from the story, no doubt never to be seen again, with absolutely no consequence or purpose whatsoever.
Jane: “Sarah wants to die, Clem, you can’t save her” and meanwhile Sarah screams for help in the background and no one else in the cabin group even attempts to help. Then immediately after she is eaten alive, we are treated to a heartwarming scene in which we celebrate new life and sisterly bonds, while the corpse of our 15 year old companion is too fresh to even begin decomposing.
And about Rebecca, isn’t it so innovative how she played right into the “woman dies from childbirth” cliché? It’s so well done, am I right? I especially enjoyed how she suddenly dropped dead from hypothermia and turned into a zombie all under the space of 30 seconds.
Telltale continues to ignore all criticism and pats themselves on the back while continuing to claim that their story rocks and they love their fans so much. They continue to retweet gushing reviews and “I’m crying, I’m so emotional” and this “Telltale is so groundbreaking” blah blah blah when it is so painfully clear: choices do not matter. The story does not matter. Characters do not matter. The fans do not matter.
Wall of text! Massive wall of text!
Use some line breaks and clean that up, because I'm not going to read it when it looks like that.
Should they retweet that crap you wrote? Why should they? There are tons of people out there who love their storytelling. If I was in their position I'd do the exact same thing. I would never answer in a thread like that, I'd only get attacked by tons of people.
And that stuff you wrote is not legitimate criticism. It's not blind hate either, but it's blowing things WAY out of proportion. It's not well written, you are repeating yourself over and over and over and I can't read this shit anymore.
I'd try to defend the season and argue with you, but It's not worth my time.
Excellent summation of characterization in season 2.
What could be added though is that TTGs laziness goes further, even using season 1 characters as templates making the new characters indistinguashable from them in season 1: Nick is the new Ben. Jane is the new Molly*. Rebecca is the new Christa. Heck, even Alvin lend so much characteristics from Omid that it gets silly.
This is not only bad, its incredible lazy. TTG made a name for itself for being able to create fantastic, likable (or hatable) characters that we could relate to for real. And then they come and do this to us? I remember that I during the intermission between the seasons was full of confidence and actually defended TTG when concerns were raised against new characters. I was convinced TTG would manage to create new interesting characters we could love or hate.
Guess the joke is on me now.
*And why oh why do we really need an Action Girl everywhere? The TV show have Michonne, we got Molly and her clone Jane. Its simply not realistic. Lilly was a better and more realistic tough woman, and she didn't have any of that action.
In other words, you can't actually defend the writing in this game but you can sure insult someone who's criticizing it.
I defended it over and over and over but I'm just repeating myself. Everyone here IS JUST REPEATING himself. I'm just gonna stop it.
Christa would have been a more interesting character, since we know she's competent and strong-willed without needing to be seen as an unstoppable zombie killer. Plus there's been no development regarding the relationship Clem had with her (or her own parents), despite spending far longer amounts of time with them than Lee. There's no excuse for that - it's just lazily banking on the players' memories of Season 1 rather than staying true to the character.
I don't know about anyone else but the reason that I find myself repeating similar arguments is that every now and again somebody pops up and says "but guys, you OBVIOUSLY haven't considered what Telltale was trying to do..." or "Episode 4 was fantastic, Season 2 is fantastic, I don't know what you're saying", making it a necessity to inform and to argue a case that has already been presented and that those people don't seem to comprehend yet. It's general courtesy, not to mention freedom of speech; forgive me for sounding rude, but it seems to me like your understanding of "legitimate criticism" is "anything that I personally agree with."
Nobody expects Telltale to retweet criticism, and they don't really HAVE to change the way they make their content if they don't want to, but if people are frustrated about that content, when they've already paid for it, then they have a right to criticise, even if YOU don't agree with that criticism, and Telltale can hardly complain then if those people stop supporting them. I don't really understand why it's so hard to respect someone else's opinion, but if you're looking for yours to be taken seriously then calling what is in my view a well-considered argument "shit" or "crap" or whatever lingo you crazy kids are using these days, is probably not the best way to do that.
I think what this season is telling us that the game gave up on us... (thx Kevin).
There has to be some alternative to have better changes.... TTG really did abandoned us....
the game didn't "talk to me," the game gave me a middle finger.
great post yet again @TT247 ,Sarita dying in Kennys arms but minimally concious would of been a time when she could of added a lot about her character,her beliefs in dying maybe? or to reassure Clem that she was doing her best in what words she had the strength left to use,i can only think time restraints of trying to keep the episode short had something with not exploring more of her death and character.
the leaked death of Rebecca in childbirth with the bloody towel would of been grusome,but this game is aimed at adults! NOT CHILDREN! so for Telltale tweeting that people are crying etc etc it sounds like they are aiming the game at teens,and the scrapped content was a little too adult