Shame On You, Telltale (SPOILERS)

1222325272839

Comments

  • I felt pretty cheated when I found out later on that sparing Sarita's arm still provided no chance for you to learn what she felt about things, or even apologize to her. It was still focused solely on Kenny, which is a really lazy way to use her as plot-device rather than character. Just because we already went through Pete and Lee's ordeals doesn't mean Sarita's should be skipped over, because its impact is more permanent and lethal to her than it is to Kenny. And I also don't understand why these two characters never acknowledged Reggie despite HIM LITERALLY TELLING THEM THAT AMPUTATION SAVED HIS LIFE. It's not like people surviving zombie bites is something you just ignore.

    BTW, I don't get what you mean about the 'leaked death'. The leaks actually seemed pretty accurate to what we got in the final product.

    Clemmy1 posted: »

    great post yet again @TT247 ,Sarita dying in Kennys arms but minimally concious would of been a time when she could of added a lot about her

  • Shut up you stupid troll, the only reason you didn't read it is because you are lazy.

  • rumour is Rebecca's death scene was scrapped because it was too graphic,dying in childbirth at the hardware store.

    Bokor posted: »

    I felt pretty cheated when I found out later on that sparing Sarita's arm still provided no chance for you to learn what she felt about thin

  • So back in Episode 3?

    Clemmy1 posted: »

    rumour is Rebecca's death scene was scrapped because it was too graphic,dying in childbirth at the hardware store.

  • i think so,episode 3 was spread into ep 4 more aswell,with the hardware store and Carver having more time,if you believe the rumours;) but remember the slide of Clem and Rebecca? how the backgrounds were changed,i think this was supposed to happen in ep3,maybe thats why it's a little disjointed in parts and the slides don't match.

    Bokor posted: »

    So back in Episode 3?

  • I also heard a rumor that Arvo was originally supposed to be Eddie, but that got scrapped.

    Clemmy1 posted: »

    i think so,episode 3 was spread into ep 4 more aswell,with the hardware store and Carver having more time,if you believe the rumours;) but r

  • and that Clem had to be initiated into the group....hence the episode 4 slide

    J-Master posted: »

    I also heard a rumor that Arvo was originally supposed to be Eddie, but that got scrapped.

  • you see thats what we should all be doing now,giving the game rave reviews for being dark and touching on subjects that are not run of the mill,episodes' 3,4,5 if it was written like this initially,would of shocked fans but got great scores,the rewrite harmed the game.

    J-Master posted: »

    I also heard a rumor that Arvo was originally supposed to be Eddie, but that got scrapped.

  • Seems more like random speculation. For what it's worth, I was expecting Omid The Ruins to be about an actual civil war between Carver's group and a separate group at Parker's Run.

    Clemmy1 posted: »

    and that Clem had to be initiated into the group....hence the episode 4 slide

  • well there is a file in there of a bloody towel,and its from episode 3,so it could be legit,who knows

    Bokor posted: »

    Seems more like random speculation. For what it's worth, I was expecting Omid The Ruins to be about an actual civil war between Carver's group and a separate group at Parker's Run.

  • Because we've never seen a woman die in childbirth before.

    Clemmy1 posted: »

    you see thats what we should all be doing now,giving the game rave reviews for being dark and touching on subjects that are not run of the m

  • Ok I seriously don't understand.

    Your only defense of Telltale that I've seen so far is "Well I liked it". Do you seriously think that's a legitimate defense? Do you seriously think that my points are no longer "legitimate criticism" because you're tired of repeating this "I liked it so you need to shut up now"?

    That's not defending Telltale, that's swallowing whatever they give you without question and trying to shut down anyone who disagrees simply because you disagree. I seriously don't get it.

    aldimon posted: »

    I defended it over and over and over but I'm just repeating myself. Everyone here IS JUST REPEATING himself. I'm just gonna stop it.

  • I don't think slapping Sarah was necessarily meant to be malicious in any sort of way. I certainly didn't mean to be that way when I chose that option. I simply wanted her to wake up.

    Bokor posted: »

    I agree. Hell, it pisses me off that the GAME forces us to treat Sarah the same way Carver did by slapping her, implicitly endorsing his po

  • edited August 2014

    Think I'll pitch in as well. I'm not going to state that this or that change would improve season 2, but I do hope Telltale reads this thread, and that they absorb some of that feedback they want. I'll add that I am enjoying season 2 but it wouldn't even cross my mind to name it game of the year. Season 1? Several years is more like it.

    The main reason I prefer season 1, I think, is not because of episode length or hub areas, but because of the extraordinary setup. You're in a zombie-infested world and you're looking out for a little kid, on both an emotional and physical level. You don't really know what to do, but you make an effort to do the best you can. That setup drives the decisions you make and it even drives the spatial movement of the characters: you start at Clementine's home and you finally get to where her parents are. The antagonist highlights the difficult relationship between the main characters. He takes things Lee would blame himself for and twists the knife.

    Season 2 is a more generic zombie story: you run and you try to survive. The character Clementine should be closest to, Christa, goes off screen early. We get a new group, which is fine in itself, but with far less convincing ties. For one thing, Clementine doesn't know anyone in the initial group. For another, the relationships between the characters in the group are not as detailed as in the first season - perhaps with the exception of Sarah and Carlos. Alvin and Rebecca are married, Luke and Nick have been friends forever and, a bit further on we learn that Matthew and Walt as well as Kenny and Sarita are a couple. But it doesn't "stick" like Lily fighting for Larry does, or Katjaa and Kenny caring for Duck. I can't quite put my finger on why, but maybe it's because the season 1 relationships go through thick and thin. Larry's a jerk. Duck's a lost cause. Their companion characters know, but they go through it. The season 2 cliques get broken up when they're apart or when they're in a zombie herd. That makes (narrative) sense for Matthew, but less so for the other characters. I feel like I don't know the first thing about Sarita, for instance.

    Another thing is tropes being reused. For instance, characters that have direct season 1 counterparts (Jane and Molly, Nick and Ben most of all). Conflicts that we've seen before (taking Arvo's meds, pretty close to cleaning out the station wagon). Carver's community which looks great from the outside but which is led by a cruel madman. Rebecca dying shortly after childbirth. Some stuff, like robbing other groups, would pose dilemmas repeatedly after a zombie apocalypse, but for a game that's about choice, I think it'd be more interesting to see other kinds of dilemmas. Issues that fit the setting, but which are not blindingly obvious in it.

    The third aspect of season 2 I regret is a lack of dynamism. Where is all this going? Wellington, I guess, but no one really has a drive to get there. It could be a bit safer because it's cold, that's more or less it.

    I also didn't particularly like how Sarah was presented and killed off in a moment of general relief. I've seen a friend break down in the past and the way it's handled in the game is offensive, although I could empathize with Jane's story about her sister.

    There's stuff I do like in season 2, though. I like the fact that Clem is the protagonist. I don't like her kicking down doors, but I like the unusual perspective she brings. I also appreciate the sense of agency. Maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, but there's a big difference between just watching cut scene and having to push a specific button and move a control stick for every stitch. It just becomes more tangible that way and that wasn't really there in season 1. I still see depth in some places, like Walt being able to forgive Nick when I was expecting the whole thing to turn violent, or like Kenny's sense of duty pulling him out of his moment of rage, but perhaps putting him in another bad place.

    Well, there's more stuff I dislike and more stuff I like, but that's the stuff I can come up with off the top of my head.

    Postscript. I don't favour realism for its own sake. I favour a gripping story, and I can suspend my disbelief to a certain extent. So seeing characters disappear and then return, at least if it doesn't happen all the time, is fine. As is Clementine being given more responsibility than anyone would give an 11-year old. But when realism is dialed back, it should serve a narrative goal. Season 2 gets sloppy in a few places without adding to the narrative.

  • It's called fanboyism - every game has its share of afflicted, npo matter how crappy the game is.

    I'd say that one of the most boring defences for a game would be the classic "if you don't like it, don't play it" - well, I bought the damn game so I have every right to complain, just as if I would if I would have got a bad root canal, bought a bad car or whatever. If money is spent, you'd damn well better get your money's worth back.

    Also, a thread like this is another way of TTG they screwed up. Big time. If there's only one thread with one post saying "the game sucked", then nobody will pay attention, but this thread? It has listed what went wrong and why that could possibly be, and TTG will pay attention - if hundreds of threads with thousands of people say the game sucks, well then maybe these people are on to something? TTG will never reply to a thread like this one (it would be social suicide) but they WILL read them.

    And hopefully, somewhere, someone at TTG will pay so much attention that changes are made. If not... Well, I've already stated that season 2 is (likely) the last game I will purchase from TTG, and I mean that; not until I see hard evidence that TTG has stopped screwing around, hired writers worthy of the title and actually makes something worthwile will I spent money again. And I doubt I will be neither the first or the last to do so.

    A related example: Dragon Age: Orgins was widely acclaimed and people loved the shit out of it. Then came Dragon Age II, and while not an incredibly bad game (just bad) it made a lot of people feel insulted and suspicious enough to withdraw from a purchase of Dragon Age 3. Sure, some new fans have been lured in, but I bet many with me will not be first in line to buy that, simply because we know what that developer is capable of (screw ups of epical proportions, that is).

    What this means is: We who have been into earlier games (or earlier seasons, since we are talking about TWD) will not spend money until we are assured that yes, it acfually is good. That also means that the initial sales (which are important) won't be as large, which in turn might affect the stock value and so on.

    So for their own sake, I hope TTG get their shit together.

    TT247 posted: »

    Ok I seriously don't understand. Your only defense of Telltale that I've seen so far is "Well I liked it". Do you seriously think that's

  • edited August 2014

    OP I want to thank you for writing this up. Like yourself, I feel like I have become very jaded when it comes to my feelings surrounding Telltale's TWD series. I've wanted to write something similar to this for a long time, but I could never drag myself out to do it. So kudos to you for putting in all the time and effort to make this happen.

    One thing I can't seem to answer is this: How is it that Season 2 pales in comparison to Season 1 in almost every aspect (except maybe QTE's) when Telltale made so much money off the first season? For the love of god, I don't know how TWD has regressed so much in quality since Season 1 ended. Apparently, Telltale sold something like 8.5 million copies and made over $40 million in sales when they only spent like 100 grand in production costs. That is a huge profit margin yet it doesn't appear that Telltale took any of that money and used it to make their games better!

    Honestly, it just really boggles my mind. Telltale hit gold with TWD and had a smash hit with Season 1, but even though that game was pretty awesome there were still area's that could've used some improvement. Puzzles were overall pretty weak and easy to solve, QTE's were generally badly implemented, and there was very little actual story branching outside of choosing who to save in a given situation.

    Now instead of actually trying to expand on the idea's of Season 1, Telltale decided it would somehow be better to just simply cut all these things out of production? If that wasn't bad enough, the general idea of having a plot or creating fleshed out characters was also thrown out the window too!!! The whole season so far has just been fucking ridiculous. What we have left is just a mish-mash of idea's that go absolutely nowhere and an overall sense of characterization that utterly feels half assed. It's like the writers seriously stopped giving a fuck about half way through production.

    This season and Telltale's new approach to designing "games" (if you can even honestly call them games that at this point) is just shamefully bad. After Episode 1 of TWAU, I found myself having similar complaints with the rest of that series as well. Telltale's new "cinematic approach" to games isn't working and all of their new stuff since the end of TWD Season 1 feels like it has been streamlined to death. These episodes just feel like a collection of random poorly scripted animated movies that are vaguely interconnected with each other. I have seen fan-fiction that is better then this junk and that frankly is just sad...

    At this point of time, people need to ask themselves why they are paying money for these episodes when they could just pretty much get the same experience watching a Youtube "Let's Play" video. Everything has become so scripted and almost choreographed that there is very little actual game-play left to be had at all.

    ...and one last thing: How the fuck is TWD Season 2 receiving positive reviews? This season has just been horrible yet somehow almost every "professional review" is full of never-ending praise for Telltale....I just don't get it.

  • "How the fuck is TWD Season 2 receiving positive reviews? This season has just been horrible yet somehow almost every "professional review" is full of never-ending praise for Telltale....I just don't get it."

    They bought good reviews. Seriously that is something you can do - wine and dine the journalists and work on "public relations". That wine and blowjobs the game companies pay for WILL net them good reviews, no matter what the journalist think himself.

    I haven't read a professional review in years by the way.

    OP I want to thank you for writing this up. Like yourself, I feel like I have become very jaded when it comes to my feelings surrounding Tel

  • Yeah "gaming journalism" is a bit of a joke isn't it? That whole industry is more like a glorified Public Relations company then anything else.

    Anyways what a fucking shame right? Telltale had something really special with TWD Season 1 and they just shit all over it.

    Warge posted: »

    "How the fuck is TWD Season 2 receiving positive reviews? This season has just been horrible yet somehow almost every "professional review"

  • HO-LEE...FUCK! I just read all of that, and now I have a headache. Don't get me wrong, you made excellent points, and I agree with you, but that wall of words that I just conquered...I need some Tylenol.

  • Well, there's Fallout 3, though you are a baby, so they take you away while it's happening.

    Bokor posted: »

    Because we've never seen a woman die in childbirth before.

  • I was being sarcastic The trope is actually really overused.

    Spooch posted: »

    Well, there's Fallout 3, though you are a baby, so they take you away while it's happening.

  • Don't worry the game brought it back up into my mind before your post. :S
    (It was only a matter of time that I would bring it up to someone again.)

    DomeWing333 posted: »

    Thank you for sharing with me your experiences, Lumlotus. I'm sorry that you had to go through the trauma that you did and I'm especially so

  • TT247, I have agreed with everything you have said except for one thing: I'm a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, we're all dudes.

    TT247 posted: »

    At first I was just going to post this in response to aldimon up there, but it got too long so here we are. First off, to aldimon and eve

  • Oh.Then again I don't play many games. I'm very selective. I do know it happens in movies a lot.

    Bokor posted: »

    I was being sarcastic The trope is actually really overused.

  • and you gonna hate yourself then...

  • got hate?

    aldimon posted: »

    It's not about disagreeing. If there would be a community question, an answer and a community reply (with the community posts written by a p

  • edited August 2014

    I can see the thread's name has been changed to it's original...

    Lemme guess...The Playing dead episode?

  • I noticed this as well. Surely the OP didn't change the title for no reason, right?

    TheMPerson posted: »

    I can see the thread's name has been changed to it's original... Lemme guess...The Playing dead episode?

  • edited August 2014

    The fans are pissed how Greg and 2 Telltale employees laughed at how Sarah was "not normal" (Greg's quote),they treated her with such disrespect, it's awful...they looked like assholes...

    And also because they posted this on Tumblr,like they have no problem with it...everyone who is sharing this on Tumblr are bashing TTG, even as we speak.


    Oh and this too:

    Alt text

    Good job Telltale...

    I noticed this as well. Surely the OP didn't change the title for no reason, right?

  • Behold, Greg Miller! King Of Scumbags!

    TheMPerson posted: »

    The fans are pissed how Greg and 2 Telltale employees laughed at how Sarah was "not normal" (Greg's quote),they treated her with such disres

  • edited August 2014

    Greg is a scumbag...I'm not surprised how he is here...

    HOWEVER...

    I'm really disappointed at Telltale...they obviously had no problem with this interview...

    Behold, Greg Miller! King Of Scumbags!

  • That Greg guy must be the most stupid and douchebaggiest person I've seen so far. I mean seriously?

    Actually, translate the zombiecalypse to something more down to earth, like the hurricane Katrina. Did it affect children? The tsunami that killed 100 000 people a few years ago, where there only survivors, but no children? Children (as well as elders or disabled people are a part of the society, and thus will be a part of any disaster, as well as any attempt to keep that society running.

    Goddammit, he should be strung up in his right nut until he learns to think before he types.

    TheMPerson posted: »

    The fans are pissed how Greg and 2 Telltale employees laughed at how Sarah was "not normal" (Greg's quote),they treated her with such disres

  • edited August 2014

    Top 3 Highlights of the new Playing Dead for those who haven't watched, or are too sick and can't take the first 2 minutes of it:


    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text


    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text


    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text
    Alt text


    "IGN Playing Dead: Host Greg Miller, Amid the Ruins Designer Mark Darin and Director Jason Latino discuss the character of Sarah and the in game decision to leave her to die or slap her and take her with you. Sarah is a character from Telltale Games’ The Walking Dead Season Two who is implied to be neurodivergent."

    I hope I didn't cause your computer to crash~ Credits to thewalkingliability

  • Jesus, what a dick.

    TheMPerson posted: »

    Top 3 Highlights of the new Playing Dead for those who haven't watched, or are too sick and can't take the first 2 minutes of it:

  • edited August 2014

    Who's worse?

    Telltale employees (who laugh along side with Greg about Sarah and not defending her at all) or Greg (who always bashes something in video games)?

    Lahkesis posted: »

    Jesus, what a dick.

  • edited August 2014

    geez.... im staying out of this can of worms(btw i don't condone this,its the opposite)

    TheMPerson posted: »

    Top 3 Highlights of the new Playing Dead for those who haven't watched, or are too sick and can't take the first 2 minutes of it:

  • Wow, so a disabled girl deserves to be smacked in the face as well as being brutally killed by walkers for the horrible crime of not being 'normal', and the Telltale staff members don't object or call him out on this.

    I thought Telltale was supposed to be better than this. Being a disabled person myself, I'm shaking my head at their ignorance.

    TheMPerson posted: »

    Top 3 Highlights of the new Playing Dead for those who haven't watched, or are too sick and can't take the first 2 minutes of it:

  • You guessed it. ((((((;

    TheMPerson posted: »

    I can see the thread's name has been changed to it's original... Lemme guess...The Playing dead episode?

  • I don't even know where to begin with this. This whole Greg Miller bullshit IGN "interview" (if you could even call it that, since he talks 80 percent of the time), wow it was just the pinnacle of this whole thing. I seriously cannot believe they allowed such an unprofessional and offensive thing to be published and even posted the abomination to their own tumblr account. Wow it really just blows my mind I don't even know where to begin.

  • edited August 2014

    Glad to see you're still hanging around @TT247 :)

    TT247 posted: »

    You guessed it. ((((((;

This discussion has been closed.