So, Carver's camp . . . Not looking so bad
So after "Amid the Ruins", I can't help but think everyone would have been WAY better off if they just stayed at Carver's camp.
And when I think about it, Carver's camp wasn't really that bad. If I may be so bold, I would say that the problem was really practically EVERYONE in the cabin group, including Kenny. Apart from some things that Carver did (like killing Walter and Reggie) the community itself in the camp didn't really seem bad at all . . . except for Troy, he needed to die. The only reason why everything looked so bad there is because we were the ones causing the problems there, as prisoners no less (which I think only would have been temporary, because Carver seemed to like Clem). But apparently menial jobs in this community was infinitely worse than trying to just barely survive every tiny moment in the wild. And because of the group, we potentially doomed every single person in that otherwise good community. We most likely also doomed Rebecca's baby as well. I mean really, what was Rebecca thinking?
All because we hated one guy . . . maybe two.
And now everyone's basically dead.
Comments
Plus after they got out of the prison, Carver would have made Clem leader if he died, so the cabin group coulda killed Carver, had Clem be leader, and all would be good
Sarita, Carlos, Sarah, Nick and Rebecca.... they wouldn't have died if that were so, they did it for themselves, their own safety, but it was rather reckless and they endangered a whole community, if Tavia and everyone else died, the blood is in the group's hand, whose the real bad guy here?
Its a lose lose situation. Either work for a psychopath that enslaves you or fend for yourself. You suffer either way.
Well, the problem was the guy leading the camp would off you if you fuck up cutting berries from a branch. And if they killed Carver and made Clem the leader I doubt anyone but her own group would follow her, It seemed that most of Carver's goons disliked her.
This could've been played better. The plan was stupid.
They could've killed carver and throw what remained of his body to the walkers so it'd look like a zombie attack or atleast be secretive about it and hide his body and act clueless. I'm sure nobody would execute anybody.
Or they could've stayed at the camp for awhile and chose a good time to escape. Like uh maybe when there isn't a big ass herd coming your way.
Clem was new there and no one knew who she was. However Carver seemed to like her a lot, but everyone in the cabin group and Kenny kept pulling her into their shenanigans that they should have handled themselves. Also bear in mind that carver was only that kind of person to the people in the "yard". It would also help to have some specific context as to why exactly the cabin group left the camp in the first place. But I guess we'll never know because that information most likely died with Carver.
I was kinda thinking this, too. With Rebecca being heavily pregnant, what exactly was the plan once they did escape? As Jane points out, there's a lot of things babies need that its pretty damn hard to supply trudging through the wilderness. Since Carver is dead, wouldn't it have been smarter to have stayed and tried a coup instead, taking out or imprisoning those known to favor his methods while winning those who were disgruntled with his leadership over to their side? Or at the very least stayed and hoped the next leader would be less of a psycho?
One of the things that has kinda bugged me this season is how so many of the decisions characters make seem to have no basis in logical thinking. This was far from the first time where I found myself absolutely baffled by a character's decisions or behavior, since it just didn't add up.
My thoughts exactly.
The only thing they had a problem with was Carver and possibly Troy, but the second they were both dead and no one knew about it, they had absolutely no reason to leave in my opinion.
yeah i think the better play would have been to take out carver and his loyal goons and just takeover, because basically clementines group lost a good stronghold and were essentially murderers because of the amount of "innocent" people they killed with the zombies, obviously zombies killed the people at the camp, but if you could say zombies are a force of nature, they basically did the equivalent of breaking a dam to kill the camp.
if they could manage to stay once carver and his goons were gone they could have survived a very long time with all the security and food at the camp.
The escape plan was also pretty selfish and dickish when you think about it.
"We really don't want to live under this guy's leadership. So let's call over this huge hoard of zombies to screw over all the other people living under his rule as a distraction him while we escape."
Carver wanted her to be a leader in the long term, but he knew that nobody would take order's from an 11 year old. They couldn't just kill Carver and have Clem run the community within a week.
yeah clementine being leader would have been silly, kenny could have been the leader
However, with how all the adults in this game seem to be inept at everything they do and constantly need a little girls help for some reason, I actually wouldn't be surprised if the community itself practically begged her to be their leader.
I mean, come on . . . she's Clementine.
I would have liked more time to explore the rest of the settlement outside of the prison yard. If we had the chance to learn more about the community, and maybe form connections with people like the 400 Days crew, maybe we could have sought better alternatives than leading the entire place to ruin in a desperate rush to escape its crazy leader.
Time was obviously a factor with Carver murdering people on a whim and showing Rebecca what he had done to Alvin, but I agree that there could have been alternatives to summoning the horde.
Although, actually, that's pretty much what Moses does in the Christian Bible, isn't it? Calling forth a terrible plague upon an innocent populace to get a stubborn tyrant to free your group of people from slavery...Maybe this was an intentional allusion.
In regards to more time exploring the settlement, I think that would make a great DLC for Season 2.
We could explore more of how everything went before and after Clem came and have the 400 days characters be the playable characters again. It would actually be a great way to bring some relevance back to the 400 days DLC. And we could finally understand why the cabin group left possibly, other than "because we had to". Seriously that excuse never sat well with me whenever Carlos said that.
To be fair, Moses gave Pharaoh plenty of warnings. It's not like he didn't tell him ahead of time before each plague. You'd think he'd let them go after the 3rd plague or so.
Nice catch though, they do seem kinda similar in a way.
Also I'd like to preemptively stop this discussion dead in it's tracks, before it possibly spirals out of control. This isn't exactly the best place to bring up this topic.
Two things:
1) God 'hardened Pharaoh's heart' repeatedly. That's kinda cheating, punishing a man for his wickedness when you're preventing him from doing anything else.
2) Shockingly enough, when someone commits a crime, its usually more just to punish that someone, not commit mass infanticide to teach him a lesson. Pharaoh apparently walked away from the whole thing just fine, but a bunch of people's babies didn't.
But I digress. Yes, the escape plan was incredibly selfish, especially if Carver's community actually did end up getting overrun.
ikr, like if you just stay on carvers good side youd be good to go, not to mention carvers base had a shit ton of food,ammo and medicine.
Tavia or Troy would have probably become leader if Carver died.
Telltale really needs to tone it down on the whole "GI Jane thing" with Clem.
It's kind of absurd when a small eleven year old girl is kicking in doors and taking out zombies without even breaking a sweat.
People have suggested that some kind of series re-write took place after Episodes 1 and 2. The episode slides changed completely (they are now completely irrelevant...similar to what happened with TWAU) and a lot of things "story wise" that were set up in the first two episodes ultimately were just discarded in Episode 3.
The argument could be made Telltale had some kind of plan in place and then shit hit the fan for unknown reasons forcing a re-write. Personally I just think they've been winging it the whole time and that lackluster attitude to story-telling is finally catching up with them.
Our group totally fucked them over as well, tho. They left the main gate wide open after they escaped. Tavia and friends be dead.
So their escape killed both their own group and the entire community.
I guess goodbye future appearances by 400 Days Cast?
What was the point of making 400 Days or having Telltale tweet about how important they're going to be story-wise when all we get is a 15 second cameo of them?
Seriously wtf was that all about because now it's just looking like they wanted to milk some more cash out of the fans. It has had absolutely no impact on the story in any shape or form.
Maybe they survived somehow. And that will be what the next DLC will be about after Season 2 is done.
Please . . .
Please Telltale, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!
I do wish Episode 3 allowed us to see Carver's community as more than just a prison of assholes. It may be implicit that summoning a horde on them is a pretty immoral thing to do, but none of the characters express any regret about it. Also, recall that the first time Luke's group escaped they apparently killed at least one member (George), took vital supplies and a doctor, and left during the confusion of another horde. Bill takes advantage of the unpleasant way they left to make the community okay with treating Luke's group as a bunch of criminals - just as how Roman was okay with killing Stephanie without a fair trial. Carver seems to have been a bad person even before the group's escape - he coerced Rebecca into having his baby regardless of her feelings, scared Carlos with his violence, had no qualms with manipulating children, and rubbed Luke the wrong way - but that does not mean his organization was full of bad people.
Think about Russell, and how Tavia could only convince him to join the group if he believed he could find his grandma - would he have stayed if that was a lie? I'm also inclined to believe Becca wasn't the only child at the compound.
By the way, if you guys want to believe the 400 Days characters survived, check out this fanfic:
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10450054/1/Into-The-Fray
Looks pretty cool, will do.
Is this your story or a friend's?
Even though staying might have been better, whose to say the horde wouldn't have just broken through the defences and devoured the entire group if they didn't decide to leave?
If they had better warning, didn't have loud-speakers drawing the horde's attention, and didn't have the main gate wide open, I'm sure they'd have stood a better chance. That, and if they conserved their ammo rather than spraying willy-nilly.
I find it a little absurd that zombies managed to make it up to the roof that quickly, but hope that there's still room for the innocent survivors to have escaped. If Kenny "got lucky", so could they.
LMAO.
Someone else's.
If the 400 Days characters died... that would've made 400 Days a complete waste.
I just hope they don't kill the 400 Days characters off... that would make 400 Days almost useless to the plot.
Carver would've murdered them all for not picking enough berries or bs like that. The community there seemed pathetic, Hank and Tavia talk of how it's hard to not call the new people prisoners. The 400 Days group seem depressed or vicious even before the cabin group decide to escape more
If it is it'd be good to be able to pick one character for the ep. I know that would be hard work but I think it'd be more fun if they concentrate on the overall story and just let us pick the character instead of playing as each for like 15 mins like 400 Days DLC
In a DLC like that, it might be best to play as one of the guards seen in Episode 3. That way the developers won't have to worry about all the variables of determining which survivors from 400 Days made it to the store.
I dont think its about what was the better place to live in, it's the concept of being forced into a place you no longer wanted to be in. The cabin group that originally escaped for a reason, they HATE carver being forced back into a community which is partly corrupt + Beating children to discipline then is not really what they want. Even if they are safer.
Yeah they'd rather die a family then become like Crawford. Seems like what Carver was going for. As soon as Reggie showed a little weakness, he killed him. Reminds me of Crawford from season one.
Plus the baby. Living in pain for the rest of your life, knowing your husband isnt the father of your child? It'd do my head in pretty quickly.
How it should have ended Ideas
Idea number 1
Clem: guys I know you have a plan but who put Carver actualy as leader in this place
Rebecca: I believe Bill himself and Troy
Clem: and does he has many other loyal followers?
Luke: eh the most of the guys here don't like him
Clem: can't we just takedown Carver, Troy and even Tavia if we have to and make a big plan to make this place better for all of us. Look if we just play this smart and think this through maybe we don't have to use the speakers and bring the herd here and-
Everybody nah that is stupid.
Idea number 2
Kenny shoots Carver in the legs
Clem: wait I have a idea.
REALY REALY LATER...
Tavia: he Bonnie Carver and Troy are dead and we still don't have the killers.
Bonnie: yup.
Tavia: can't we just take over this place and-
Bonnie: make it democratic.
Tavia: I thought about a new leader.
BLABLABLA
LOL your ideas