Yeah. It allows them to focus more on character development and we'd get more bang for our buck. It could be so good if the character we play as in a DLC is a PC or NPC in S3 and we'd have much more of a connection with she or he than multiple characters we play as
In a DLC like that, it might be best to play as one of the guards seen in Episode 3. That way the developers won't have to worry about all the variables of determining which survivors from 400 Days made it to the store.
Also, there was a giant herd of zombies heading right towards them, so combine what I said in the other comment and this one, they had no choice but to leave.
Clem was new there and no one knew who she was. However Carver seemed to like her a lot, but everyone in the cabin group and Kenny kept pul… moreling her into their shenanigans that they should have handled themselves. Also bear in mind that carver was only that kind of person to the people in the "yard". It would also help to have some specific context as to why exactly the cabin group left the camp in the first place. But I guess we'll never know because that information most likely died with Carver.
It would've been a pretty good deal for Clementine. Sure, Carver would hold a grudge against her for a while, but soon that'd slide and she'd be allowed into the 'community' part, possibly along with Rebecca, Nick and a few of the others who didn't really cause problems.
From there Rebecca's baby would've been born (delivered by a non-dead Carlos) and then it would've been raised to be the leader of the settlement. That's like your kid becoming post-apocalyptic president.
Rebecca wouldn't even have to worry about being killed by Carver so that he could have the baby to himself because he clearly liked her enough to keep her around, and Carver seemed to want to shape Clementine to his own ideals too, meaning she could just pretend to agree with him, he'd let her see the baby or look after it a lot, and then she'd be able to make it a better person and sort of throw it off of what Carver wanted to be.
However, with how all the adults in this game seem to be inept at everything they do and constantly need a little girls help for some reason… more, I actually wouldn't be surprised if the community itself practically begged her to be their leader.
I mean, come on . . . she's Clementine.
About Clementine agreeing. I think that's the choice she'd have made - Bonnie says that if you're on Bill's good side, you'll be fine.
During the speech in the office, I think Clementine would have agreed just to get on his good side - doesn't mean she'd think any good of his actions.
It would've been a pretty good deal for Clementine. Sure, Carver would hold a grudge against her for a while, but soon that'd slide and she'… mored be allowed into the 'community' part, possibly along with Rebecca, Nick and a few of the others who didn't really cause problems.
From there Rebecca's baby would've been born (delivered by a non-dead Carlos) and then it would've been raised to be the leader of the settlement. That's like your kid becoming post-apocalyptic president.
Rebecca wouldn't even have to worry about being killed by Carver so that he could have the baby to himself because he clearly liked her enough to keep her around, and Carver seemed to want to shape Clementine to his own ideals too, meaning she could just pretend to agree with him, he'd let her see the baby or look after it a lot, and then she'd be able to make it a better person and sort of throw it off of what Carver wanted to be.
I was kinda thinking this, too. With Rebecca being heavily pregnant, what exactly was the plan once they did escape? As Jane points out, the… morere's a lot of things babies need that its pretty damn hard to supply trudging through the wilderness. Since Carver is dead, wouldn't it have been smarter to have stayed and tried a coup instead, taking out or imprisoning those known to favor his methods while winning those who were disgruntled with his leadership over to their side? Or at the very least stayed and hoped the next leader would be less of a psycho?
One of the things that has kinda bugged me this season is how so many of the decisions characters make seem to have no basis in logical thinking. This was far from the first time where I found myself absolutely baffled by a character's decisions or behavior, since it just didn't add up.
If she were to remain defiant and say she wished he was dead, Carver takes it in stride, possibly because he thinks she's a little girl who couldn't pose a genuine threat to him. I get the sense that he flipped out on Kenny because he saw that guy as a more visible threat - he's a grown man who killed one of his men, had attempted to escape while being transported, been the most vocally aggressive of the newcomers, had a fit and brought zombies into the compound, and then took responsibility for stealing his property. If he didn't want to kill Kenny then and there, beating him down would have sufficed as a 'lesson'.
One thing that's never made clear is how much the community is aware of Carver's faults. I don't think anyone really acknowledges his affair with Rebecca (I get the sense that her secret remained with Luke's group), and while Troy was definitely there to see Reggie fall it doesn't seem like Tavia and her friend realized he was murdered. If they'd asked Carver and he'd happily told them his rationale, I think they'd have an "adult conversation" about what to do with the danger his instability would pose.
About Clementine agreeing. I think that's the choice she'd have made - Bonnie says that if you're on Bill's good side, you'll be fine.
Duri… moreng the speech in the office, I think Clementine would have agreed just to get on his good side - doesn't mean she'd think any good of his actions.
If the group stayed at Carver's community, Rebecca wouldn't have died from the cold and exhaustion, and there wouldn't have been the whole situation with Arvo. Sarita would have survived aswell. But what about the herd?
Also, if Carver eventually dies, he'd leave the camp in Clementine's command since he believes the next generations have to be stronger than the last. When Clementine is in control, obviously things would get better for everyone but I think less work would get done so a lot of things Carver had won't be as effective when Clementine is taking over.
Carver was thinking in the long-term - he's not dumb enough to realize that the community would be cool with a pre-pubescent child in charge. It's more likely that someone like Tavia, who I believe was running the community in his absence anyway, would have taken control.
Hell, it's more realistic than Episode 4 implying that zombies managed to somehow teleport to the roof without getting anyone's attention.
If the group stayed at Carver's community, Rebecca wouldn't have died from the cold and exhaustion, and there wouldn't have been the whole s… moreituation with Arvo. Sarita would have survived aswell. But what about the herd?
Also, if Carver eventually dies, he'd leave the camp in Clementine's command since he believes the next generations have to be stronger than the last. When Clementine is in control, obviously things would get better for everyone but I think less work would get done so a lot of things Carver had won't be as effective when Clementine is taking over.
But neither we or the characters knew that. After Alvin (determinately) can be beaten up, Kenny almost beaten to death as well as Clementine or Sarita optionally getting beaten down. Plus if Rebecca gave birth, Carver would most likely kill her anyway.
We as players hated Carver, just as much as the characters (at least I did and I assume the rest of you did too) and even though we knew that staying at Carvers Camp would be safe, we jumped the gun. We went ahead and risked our lives just to get away and this is our punishment of sorts.
As well as this, the herd situation seemed dire. Plus when the community was attacked they couldn't handle it, and zombies managed to get in and even get onto the roof (I'm guessing at this point most of the community fled or died).
And now that they did leave, most of them are dead, including Rebecca. All they had to do to stay in a well-supplied, comfortable settlement was get rid of Carver and his closest supporters, which is pretty much what they do on the way out anyway.
I agree. But Clem could've seen it as a way to get Carver's trust and eventually kill him. She's smart and that'd work better than Kenny's methods for sure.
If she were to remain defiant and say she wished he was dead, Carver takes it in stride, possibly because he thinks she's a little girl who … morecouldn't pose a genuine threat to him. I get the sense that he flipped out on Kenny because he saw that guy as a more visible threat - he's a grown man who killed one of his men, had attempted to escape while being transported, been the most vocally aggressive of the newcomers, had a fit and brought zombies into the compound, and then took responsibility for stealing his property. If he didn't want to kill Kenny then and there, beating him down would have sufficed as a 'lesson'.
One thing that's never made clear is how much the community is aware of Carver's faults. I don't think anyone really acknowledges his affair with Rebecca (I get the sense that her secret remained with Luke's group), and while Troy was definitely there to see Reggie fall it doesn't seem like Tavia and her friend realized he w… [view original content]
I think a slight nudge of Carver off of a roof would've made that camp perfect. It was a fortified position with a bunch of people who have survived for a really long time.
It's bad either way. Live as a slave fearing for your life. Or try to survive in the world. Both options can get you killed. Though they could of at least taken some of the food before they left.
My thoughts exactly.
The only thing they had a problem with was Carver and possibly Troy, but the second they were both dead and no one knew about it, they had absolutely no reason to leave in my opinion.
Plus after they got out of the prison, Carver would have made Clem leader if he died, so the cabin group coulda killed Carver, had Clem be leader, and all would be good
I agree, I mean he was an interesting character to me until the beginning of episode 3. For me, like the movie Alien, the monster was always scarier when you couldn't see it, only flashes and the fear it produced in the other characters. Then in episode 3 it turns out Carver was one note evil and the cabin group was pretty much justified in everything.
I really wanted the whole Alvin killed George blurb Carver gave in the lodge and Carver telling Clem not to trust the group to amount to something more tangible. Like maybe Carver, while still evil, was at least somewhat justified or even empathetic.
I empathized with the St. Johns and the Stranger, even as I knew they were evil or at least seriously misguided. I wish Carver had been continued into episode 3 in such a way that I could have empathized with him as well.
Plus after they got out of the prison, Carver would have made Clem leader if he died, so the cabin group coulda killed Carver, had Clem be leader, and all would be good
Why did they want to escape? Probably has something to do with Carver executing (at least one) person in their group, and taking them by gunpoint as prisoners. Or maybe it's because Carver was a psychopath.
"We were the ones causing problems there" Uh hello? We were kidnapped, and being held against our will with the threat of death. If I was in that situation my first order of business would have been to kill Carver, and his followers.
Hating him and wanting to end his rule is perfectly reasonable. The problem is that by bringing a zombie horde into the community, you end up killing lots of innocent people in the process.
Why did they want to escape? Probably has something to do with Carver executing (at least one) person in their group, and taking them by gu… morenpoint as prisoners. Or maybe it's because Carver was a psychopath.
"We were the ones causing problems there" Uh hello? We were kidnapped, and being held against our will with the threat of death. If I was in that situation my first order of business would have been to kill Carver, and his followers.
Hating him and wanting to end his rule is perfectly reasonable. The problem is that by bringing a zombie horde into the community, you end up killing lots of innocent people in the process.
Well, I'm sure for the characters (and most players) the whole herd escape plan made the most sense at the time. Just two days into being back at Howe's Sarah gets abused, Reggie gets thrown off a building, Luke and Kenny get the likeability beaten out of them..... I mean, it makes sense that their instinctive response was to GTFO by any means necessary. Its easy to look back and think of how you should've done things after its all said and done.
With that being said though, yes, staying at the hardware store and finding a way to usurp Carver would've been the smarter long term plan (and a LOT more humane), but long term thinking kind of goes out the window when people are being murdered over blueberries.
Hating him and wanting to end his rule is perfectly reasonable. The problem is that by bringing a zombie horde into the community, you end up killing lots of innocent people in the process.
That's very reductive. Most of the community members didn't know who Clem, Kenny and Sarita were, presuming that they must have done something bad to end up with the traitors in the prison. If the prisoners of a community are trying to escape, that does not justify them killing innocent people in the community during the process.
Bonnie, as 'nice' as she is, also ended up going along with the plan to fuck over her community. Even if we're meant to assume that everyone "deserved it", that doesn't exactly say good things about her character...
You keep calling them innocent. They aren't. They sided with a madman. There may have been plenty of innocent Nazi's that didn't know Hitler was as bad as he was. That doesn't change the fact they picked the wrong side.
That's very reductive. Most of the community members didn't know who Clem, Kenny and Sarita were, presuming that they must have done someth… moreing bad to end up with the traitors in the prison. If the prisoners of a community are trying to escape, that does not justify them killing innocent people in the community during the process.
Bonnie, as 'nice' as she is, also ended up going along with the plan to fuck over her community. Even if we're meant to assume that everyone "deserved it", that doesn't exactly say good things about her character...
Carver seemed to try and corrupt my Clem and I wasn't haven't any of it, but on top of that I did not trust Troy around any girl. Seriously the guy had a creepy factor going off on him and treated Clem like shit (kicking her while she slept) before the group decided to do anything. Clementine could have gotten along with those people at the camp, but I don't think they would have been getting along with her.
Comments
I'm glad that they got out of there. I wouldn't feel comfortable with some psycho leader that would kill you just for little screw up.
It was a prison. Prisons are not fun.
Yeah. It allows them to focus more on character development and we'd get more bang for our buck. It could be so good if the character we play as in a DLC is a PC or NPC in S3 and we'd have much more of a connection with she or he than multiple characters we play as
Carver's camp would be perfect without Carver.
Also, there was a giant herd of zombies heading right towards them, so combine what I said in the other comment and this one, they had no choice but to leave.
If everyone stays. the horde of walkers would have got everyone.
That would be me
Always makes me happy when I see Into The Fray crop up in conversation.
It would've been a pretty good deal for Clementine. Sure, Carver would hold a grudge against her for a while, but soon that'd slide and she'd be allowed into the 'community' part, possibly along with Rebecca, Nick and a few of the others who didn't really cause problems.
From there Rebecca's baby would've been born (delivered by a non-dead Carlos) and then it would've been raised to be the leader of the settlement. That's like your kid becoming post-apocalyptic president.
Rebecca wouldn't even have to worry about being killed by Carver so that he could have the baby to himself because he clearly liked her enough to keep her around, and Carver seemed to want to shape Clementine to his own ideals too, meaning she could just pretend to agree with him, he'd let her see the baby or look after it a lot, and then she'd be able to make it a better person and sort of throw it off of what Carver wanted to be.
lol All hail Clementine.
Getting killed by walkers isn't fun either.
About Clementine agreeing. I think that's the choice she'd have made - Bonnie says that if you're on Bill's good side, you'll be fine.
During the speech in the office, I think Clementine would have agreed just to get on his good side - doesn't mean she'd think any good of his actions.
Carver would never let go of that baby. In a way, they had to leave before the labor.
They could've stolen some medical suplies on the way out though.
Es mejor morir de pie que vivir toda una vida arrodillado (Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees)
Carver was killed off too soon. He was crazy, but an interesting character.
If she were to remain defiant and say she wished he was dead, Carver takes it in stride, possibly because he thinks she's a little girl who couldn't pose a genuine threat to him. I get the sense that he flipped out on Kenny because he saw that guy as a more visible threat - he's a grown man who killed one of his men, had attempted to escape while being transported, been the most vocally aggressive of the newcomers, had a fit and brought zombies into the compound, and then took responsibility for stealing his property. If he didn't want to kill Kenny then and there, beating him down would have sufficed as a 'lesson'.
One thing that's never made clear is how much the community is aware of Carver's faults. I don't think anyone really acknowledges his affair with Rebecca (I get the sense that her secret remained with Luke's group), and while Troy was definitely there to see Reggie fall it doesn't seem like Tavia and her friend realized he was murdered. If they'd asked Carver and he'd happily told them his rationale, I think they'd have an "adult conversation" about what to do with the danger his instability would pose.
If the group stayed at Carver's community, Rebecca wouldn't have died from the cold and exhaustion, and there wouldn't have been the whole situation with Arvo. Sarita would have survived aswell. But what about the herd?
Also, if Carver eventually dies, he'd leave the camp in Clementine's command since he believes the next generations have to be stronger than the last. When Clementine is in control, obviously things would get better for everyone but I think less work would get done so a lot of things Carver had won't be as effective when Clementine is taking over.
Carver was thinking in the long-term - he's not dumb enough to realize that the community would be cool with a pre-pubescent child in charge. It's more likely that someone like Tavia, who I believe was running the community in his absence anyway, would have taken control.
Hell, it's more realistic than Episode 4 implying that zombies managed to somehow teleport to the roof without getting anyone's attention.
But neither we or the characters knew that. After Alvin (determinately) can be beaten up, Kenny almost beaten to death as well as Clementine or Sarita optionally getting beaten down. Plus if Rebecca gave birth, Carver would most likely kill her anyway.
We as players hated Carver, just as much as the characters (at least I did and I assume the rest of you did too) and even though we knew that staying at Carvers Camp would be safe, we jumped the gun. We went ahead and risked our lives just to get away and this is our punishment of sorts.
As well as this, the herd situation seemed dire. Plus when the community was attacked they couldn't handle it, and zombies managed to get in and even get onto the roof (I'm guessing at this point most of the community fled or died).
And now that they did leave, most of them are dead, including Rebecca. All they had to do to stay in a well-supplied, comfortable settlement was get rid of Carver and his closest supporters, which is pretty much what they do on the way out anyway.
I agree. But Clem could've seen it as a way to get Carver's trust and eventually kill him. She's smart and that'd work better than Kenny's methods for sure.
I think a slight nudge of Carver off of a roof would've made that camp perfect. It was a fortified position with a bunch of people who have survived for a really long time.
It's bad either way. Live as a slave fearing for your life. Or try to survive in the world. Both options can get you killed. Though they could of at least taken some of the food before they left.
Well. They did kind of play music really loud by the time both died.
If Carver raped Rebecca?
I don't know. The set-up wasn't really bad though. Did kind of have a bad vibe to it though.
They didn't intend to get eaten by walkers though, did they?
I'm just... speechless.
Carver said he would want his son (Rebecca's Child) to be the future leader.
I agree, I mean he was an interesting character to me until the beginning of episode 3. For me, like the movie Alien, the monster was always scarier when you couldn't see it, only flashes and the fear it produced in the other characters. Then in episode 3 it turns out Carver was one note evil and the cabin group was pretty much justified in everything.
I really wanted the whole Alvin killed George blurb Carver gave in the lodge and Carver telling Clem not to trust the group to amount to something more tangible. Like maybe Carver, while still evil, was at least somewhat justified or even empathetic.
I empathized with the St. Johns and the Stranger, even as I knew they were evil or at least seriously misguided. I wish Carver had been continued into episode 3 in such a way that I could have empathized with him as well.
Would have made Clem leader if he died? Yeah I'm sure a large group of adults are going to let a little girl be in charge. You clem fans are nuts.
Keep up the great work!
Why did they want to escape? Probably has something to do with Carver executing (at least one) person in their group, and taking them by gunpoint as prisoners. Or maybe it's because Carver was a psychopath.
"We were the ones causing problems there" Uh hello? We were kidnapped, and being held against our will with the threat of death. If I was in that situation my first order of business would have been to kill Carver, and his followers.
Hating him and wanting to end his rule is perfectly reasonable. The problem is that by bringing a zombie horde into the community, you end up killing lots of innocent people in the process.
Like any of Carver's people cared about Clem's group...
Well, I'm sure for the characters (and most players) the whole herd escape plan made the most sense at the time. Just two days into being back at Howe's Sarah gets abused, Reggie gets thrown off a building, Luke and Kenny get the likeability beaten out of them..... I mean, it makes sense that their instinctive response was to GTFO by any means necessary. Its easy to look back and think of how you should've done things after its all said and done.
With that being said though, yes, staying at the hardware store and finding a way to usurp Carver would've been the smarter long term plan (and a LOT more humane), but long term thinking kind of goes out the window when people are being murdered over blueberries.
Can't call someone holding me prisoner as innocent. If they joined the group, great. If not they are the enemy, and not innocent.
That's very reductive. Most of the community members didn't know who Clem, Kenny and Sarita were, presuming that they must have done something bad to end up with the traitors in the prison. If the prisoners of a community are trying to escape, that does not justify them killing innocent people in the community during the process.
Bonnie, as 'nice' as she is, also ended up going along with the plan to fuck over her community. Even if we're meant to assume that everyone "deserved it", that doesn't exactly say good things about her character...
You keep calling them innocent. They aren't. They sided with a madman. There may have been plenty of innocent Nazi's that didn't know Hitler was as bad as he was. That doesn't change the fact they picked the wrong side.
Carver seemed to try and corrupt my Clem and I wasn't haven't any of it, but on top of that I did not trust Troy around any girl. Seriously the guy had a creepy factor going off on him and treated Clem like shit (kicking her while she slept) before the group decided to do anything. Clementine could have gotten along with those people at the camp, but I don't think they would have been getting along with her.