Definitely not. I am a person who is all about creativity and people expressing themselves. That's why I get a bit defensive when it comes to the writers or artists power over their art. Usually when people say what you say, I feel like people are taking away from the person who created that thing. The way you describe it has put it into a better context for me, though.
Well I think they are. It's nothing to do with entitlement, think of it more like partial adoption. I think that when an artist puts a chara… morecter out there, into to world, they belong to anyone. Again, franchises do not and I recognize a company's right to make money off of those characters in an official context but I don't think that those characters solely belong to the author in that case.
Do you think that an author should be able to shut down fanfiction he or she doesn't like?
I doubt you were joking, the content of your other comments on this thread say otherwise. I only called you out in the first place because I know you're a Tumblr person, and I know far too many Tumblr users who share the same idiotic mindset, and fail to see the hypocrisy in it. Now you're backtracking because you don't want deal with the repercussions. Don't dish out bullshit that you can't take yourself.
I was just joking lol
well somewhat, I was joking about the cis thing (I'm cis gendered too) since it just sounds funny to say it and to … morepiss them off. I think mods should delete that comment, I really didn't care about it in the first place. I was angry at how people were laughing at sarah's death which really didn't do much but just annoyed. If you took this serious and found this offensive then I think you shouldn't be on the internet
I totally agree with you... People just hate handicaps, in real life they may not show it, but its in games that people show their true feelings! People didn't like ben, and now they don't like sarah... Both characters had great character development and to see them getting so much hate...
He said, she's abnormal and she did this abnormal behaviour so I hate her and she should die. That was what he said. He clearly said that he realised she wasn't normal, thought it was due to being coddled and when he realised she still wasn't normal afterwards he decided he hated her.
Well. What he literally said was that he hated her because "she sucks," "she was this season's Ben," and "she wasn't meant for this world." … moreAccording to him the measure of "normal" that he was referring to was being a functional survivor in that world:
The Walking Dead is an adventure game to most, but to me, it's an RPG. I am Clem. I am in this ugly fictional world. I have to make horrible choices in a fraction of a second. I had talked and talked and talked to Sarah about helping out, but it was no use. It was the same way I had talked and talked and talked to Ben about helping out, but it was no use.
This is the "normal" I was talking about on Playing Dead.
So to him, Sarah wasn't "normal" in the same way that Ben wasn't "normal." They weren't like the other survivors who could help out the group. So I don't think he's being more malicious in his hatred of Sarah than in his hatred of Ben because he essentially hated them for same reasons.
Right, but he would say the same thing of Ben. Ben was "abnormal" for a survivor in the same sense that Sarah was. Or so Greg thought. He thought that Sarah, like Ben, was responsible for her abnormal behavior because he didn't know that she abnormal to the extent that exceptions should be made to excuse her behavior (what we call "a disability"). I feel like the discussion has kinda stagnated on this point for quite some time...
He said, she's abnormal and she did this abnormal behaviour so I hate her and she should die. That was what he said. He clearly said that he… more realised she wasn't normal, thought it was due to being coddled and when he realised she still wasn't normal afterwards he decided he hated her.
How was Ben abnormal? And if his reason for hating Ben was that he was "abnormal" then he was also an asshole in that case. I guess it just hit a few more nerves when it's said about a character who so many fans identify with, hence this furore.
Right, but he would say the same thing of Ben. Ben was "abnormal" for a survivor in the same sense that Sarah was. Or so Greg thought. He th… moreought that Sarah, like Ben, was responsible for her abnormal behavior because he didn't know that she abnormal to the extent that exceptions should be made to excuse her behavior (what we call "a disability"). I feel like the discussion has kinda stagnated on this point for quite some time...
I dunno who Greg Miller is but accusing him of being sexist and ableist based off of this seems like a bit much, especially since he's largely responding on how he saw a big part of the fanbase react. Even if the accusation is accurate his views do not necessarily reflect that of Telltale who I think handled Sarah well and realistically if not politically correct.
I think you should watch the interview, and you will understand why people are mad. He said that he hated a "child.", and was happy to see this "child die.", He also said, he couldn't wait to get rid of her because she had "problems.", he was happy because he got enjoyment in slapping Sarah, a disabled girl.
Something just sin't right with this guy. I don't blame Telltale, i think they should just distance themselves from this guy.
Massive overreaction and reading motives that aren't there. Telltale created a game with a realistic portrayal of the apocalypse, hard fact … moreis that many times those with disabilities (which includes myself btw) wouldn't make it. Being treated equally and fairly doesn't mean changing reality to accommodate you. It would have been SO MUCH worse if they had suddenly discarded Sarah's issues and turned her into a badass, there's no "I want to be normal now" button on having a disability. Sarah died because she just couldn't deal with the world as it was, it's not fair, it's not nice but it's facts. And autism? Please. GAD and extremely sheltered yes, perhaps with a few other issues as well, but definitely not autistic. And Sarah was a liability. She in no way contributed to the group's survival and people died protecting and sheltering her, basically the textbook definition of a liability. Again, not nice to say but factual.
I dunno who Greg M… [view original content]
Well Ben was abnormal, like I said, in the sense that he just wasn't like the other survivors. He was meek, panicky, cowardly, etc. Other characters, while they had their own demons and issues, were more or less able to get their shit together when push came to shove. Ben didn't and a lot of people, Greg included, hated him for that.
The only thing new with Sarah is that she had a valid excuse for not getting her shit together that Greg and many others didn't pick up on. But not picking up on that doesn't make him an asshole. What arguably does make him an asshole is hating someone for being a shitty survivor. And in that case, he would be an asshole for hating Sarah and for hating Ben. Which is what your opinion seems to be. And that's fine. That's consistent. It's only inconsistent if you call someone an asshole for hating Sarah but don't call them an asshole for hating Ben.
How was Ben abnormal? And if his reason for hating Ben was that he was "abnormal" then he was also an asshole in that case. I guess it just hit a few more nerves when it's said about a character who so many fans identify with, hence this furore.
Ben was not abnormal even among the survivors. He was kind of a pussy but not abnormally so. But yes that's my opinion. Though Ben did get his shit together, what are you even talking about.
Well Ben was abnormal, like I said, in the sense that he just wasn't like the other survivors. He was meek, panicky, cowardly, etc. Other ch… morearacters, while they had their own demons and issues, were more or less able to get their shit together when push came to shove. Ben didn't and a lot of people, Greg included, hated him for that.
The only thing new with Sarah is that she had a valid excuse for not getting her shit together that Greg and many others didn't pick up on. But not picking up on that doesn't make him an asshole. What arguably does make him an asshole is hating someone for being a shitty survivor. And in that case, he would be an asshole for hating Sarah and for hating Ben. Which is what your opinion seems to be. And that's fine. That's consistent. It's only inconsistent if you call someone an asshole for hating Sarah but don't call them an asshole for hating Ben.
Well, he kinda got his shit together after you save him. He still passes the fuck out when Lee goes to chop his arm off if it's just him. Prior to Episode 5, though, Ben's shit was distinctly not together. I mean even Clem is like "Why the fuck are you leaving me with that guy? Do you want me to die?" ...maybe not in those words....
Ben was not abnormal even among the survivors. He was kind of a pussy but not abnormally so. But yes that's my opinion. Though Ben did get his shit together, what are you even talking about.
Except it was. He was not, at any point, non-functional. He was a bit of a coward in leaving the supplies for the bandits but then he found the balls, after he realised it had gone way too far, to tell you about it. Can you refresh my memory on how his shit wasn't together after that point? I do have a bad memory so help me remember.
Well, he kinda got his shit together after you save him. He still passes the fuck out when Lee goes to chop his arm off if it's just him. Pr… moreior to Episode 5, though, Ben's shit was distinctly not together. I mean even Clem is like "Why the fuck are you leaving me with that guy? Do you want me to die?" ...maybe not in those words....
Excuse me? People don't hate the disabled. I'm sorry you feel so jaded as to suggest that, using a videogame as proof, but you're wrong. Why are so many people here so ridiculous and extreme in their views? It's incredibly sad.
I totally agree with you... People just hate handicaps, in real life they may not show it, but its in games that people show their true feel… moreings! People didn't like ben, and now they don't like sarah... Both characters had great character development and to see them getting so much hate...
Haha thanks, you'll probably get shit from the Tumblr, Feminist and Sarah radicals for being in my fan club but I love you all the same Welcome aboard!
There was leaving running off and leaving Clem in the middle of the streets, not looking after Clem and letting her wander off in Savannah after Lee specifically told him to watch her, losing track of Clem again and letting her play outside by herself, there's the infamous hatchet-in-the-door handle fiasco, and there was him spilling his guts to Kenny at literally the worst possible time. He didn't "cease to function" like Sarah did, he just functioned very, very poorly.
Except it was. He was not, at any point, non-functional. He was a bit of a coward in leaving the supplies for the bandits but then he found … morethe balls, after he realised it had gone way too far, to tell you about it. Can you refresh my memory on how his shit wasn't together after that point? I do have a bad memory so help me remember.
I think he apologised because he didn't actually mean to offend people, he just expressed his opinion on a video game character and people are taking it way to far. I don't see why they think his opinion of Sarah would transcend in to real life. "Sarah was disabled (psst... she wasn't) and Greg said something I didn't like about her, so he MUST hate disabled people!"
IGN is a shitty company, they wouldn't give a flying fuck about a group of angry people on a forum. Greg apologised for his actions and upsetting people (without the prompting of IGN, I would assume) and people give him shit for trying to make up for it. What more do people want from him? There's not much else he can do... and IGN aren't going to sack him for pissing Tumblr off :P
Exactly. This isn't constructive at all. It's "I'm angry with you killing off someone I liked so suddenly, and now I can say she's disabled to add more fuel to the flame!"
They need constructive feedback like "you need to work more on your meeting your release dates"
"The game is laggy. Needs to be fixed"
"You're killing off too many characters"
Not some tumblr bs like this..
I don't see how this is in any way abnormal. The only one that comes close is the hatchet in the door handle. I've heard many parents attest to how difficult it is to keep an eye on children. He's not exactly the most courageous person on the planet but abnormal? Really?
Anyway, this is tangential, as you know. I think if greg hated him for being abnormal that's still assholish.
There was leaving running off and leaving Clem in the middle of the streets, not looking after Clem and letting her wander off in Savannah a… morefter Lee specifically told him to watch her, losing track of Clem again and letting her play outside by herself, there's the infamous hatchet-in-the-door handle fiasco, and there was him spilling his guts to Kenny at literally the worst possible time. He didn't "cease to function" like Sarah did, he just functioned very, very poorly.
Haha thanks, you'll probably get shit from the Tumblr, Feminist and Sarah radicals for being in my fan club but I love you all the same Welcome aboard!
I think that if you could plot the "zombie apocalypse survivability" of Walking Dead Game characters on a Bell curve, Ben would be over one standard deviation from the mean. They don't call him the walking liability for nothing. :P
I don't see how this is in any way abnormal. The only one that comes close is the hatchet in the door handle. I've heard many parents attest… more to how difficult it is to keep an eye on children. He's not exactly the most courageous person on the planet but abnormal? Really?
Anyway, this is tangential, as you know. I think if greg hated him for being abnormal that's still assholish.
No, this "simple entertainment" versus serious attitude is a dead horse, Rob. It's got nothing to do with my input on the topic at hand.
Of course. Greg Miller made it sound like "you're in my way", however. There's a right way to make light of a game, and a wrong way. If Miller hadn't said otherwise in an apology, I'm sure everyone here would agree overwhelmingly that he made light of the situation in a mean-spirited fashion.
We've all got better things to do with our time, Rob. I was just watching Archer a few seconds ago, now I'm here. Come back to this in a week if you want, but like you, I certainly won't be at my desk waiting like some modern-day Gollum.
What it really depends on is how you view games. Some people really just view them as simple entertainment, myself included, where nothing r… moreeally bleeds over into real life. The end of TWD's season 1 did affect me though, but that's because of the writing ability on display. It's very rare for me to feel anything if I'm honest, as I'm quite emotionally stunted. But it doesn't mean I can't relate to how people must feel. (As an aside when it comes to your point about doing what you think you would do in real life, that is generally how I play, which tends to lead towards me choosing the nice options)
Anyhow, my point is that you can apply the same rules if you treat games as simple entertainment and don't give much thought to things. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. No progress will be made.
That said, I'd like to touch on what you mentioned here: 'You no longer decide whether to save this person based on how "evil" they are.… [view original content]
You are making a baseless accusation that anyone who abandoned or did not like Sarah is some villain and a hater. And exactly where is the clear evidence that Sarah is a disabled person anyhow? It is from your subjective opinion that she might be, but she may not be. She is just a troubled and disturbed young girl that needs help but cannot motivate herself to get help for herself, let alone help other people.
We are talking about a fictional video game character. Not liking or appreciating such characters does not automatically translate into real life hatred towards certain group of people. Instead of making arguments about how a fictional character in a video game is so mistreated, why don't you use that same energy and enthusiasm towards real people who are really disabled in real life?
DomeWing could not have better explained about Sarah any clearly. She did directly cause the deaths of Reggie and Nick. She almost got Luke killed. She could have gotten both Jane and Clem killed. She did directly put other people in danger for her lack of willpower to help herself even witn the helping hands reaching out to help her. Who says the zombies discriminate and gives a certain person a "free pass" for being different? When it is all said and done, Sarah is just like everyone else.... Survivor who is vulnerable to deaths at any time. Even the best of them like Lee succumbed due to pure bad luck.
Sarah's second death could have been someone else's death. Death can come to anyone.... Everyone is the same... They are all vulnerable survivors. Just people trying to live another day.
And for the last time, liking, appreciating, not appreciating, hating a fictional character in a video game does not automatically translate into that said person's point of view and how he/she conducts him/herself in real life.
These were not conscious choices. And now we get to it, you don't understand how disability works and you hate her for her disability (note:… more I'm not saying you personally do, but the opinion being defended in the post I'm responding to is just that). I mean you are basically saying "I'm happy she's dead because [disability]". That's what people are so pissed off about, FYI.
There's a difference between consciously deciding to do the wrong thing (lying to the group, even if we accept that he thought putting the supplies out was right which I'm sure he did) resulting in hurt and something not a product of a conscious decision.
Please do not label people as haters just because they happened to not appreciate or like a fictional character in a video game. That kine of reasoning coming from you is, in fact, is offensive and insulting. Liking or not liking a fictional character in a video game does not automatically translate into real life point of view and treatment toward certain group of people.
And exactly where is the clear evidence that Sarah is disabled? You are making an assumption based on your subjective observation of her. Don't parade around and preach people that it is a fact. You say you are tired of people saying "burden" and "liability?" How about I and many others are tired of your "Disabled people are hated because Sarah died?"
If you are so passionate about people with disabilities, why don't you devote your time outside of your computer screen and instead put all that time into helping real people in real life who needs help? It is so easy for you to sit in front of your computer and act like as if you are a super saint, but it isn't so easy to apply it in the outside world, is it?
And what gives you the right to label other people as haters? Aren't you a hater yourself for saying what you are??
Criticisms about any video games are usually refreshing to read, but this??? It is getting out of hand now.
These were not conscious choices. And now we get to it, you don't understand how disability works and you hate her for her disability (note:… more I'm not saying you personally do, but the opinion being defended in the post I'm responding to is just that). I mean you are basically saying "I'm happy she's dead because [disability]". That's what people are so pissed off about, FYI.
There's a difference between consciously deciding to do the wrong thing (lying to the group, even if we accept that he thought putting the supplies out was right which I'm sure he did) resulting in hurt and something not a product of a conscious decision.
I don't deny that Greg is a jerk, nor am I defending or validating what he said. What I'm mad about is that people are acting like he committed a crime by expressing his opinion, and are trying to get him fired. People are even trying to force TellTale into making an official public apology, like its their fault for not anticipating Greg's opinion. No matter how unpopular or harsh an opinion is, I don't think anyone should be forced into censoring themselves/being politically correct because it might hurt someone's feelings. People need to toughen up and just brush it off, there are always going to be people who say controversial things, but they aren't obligated to apologize for their personal opinion.
Yep, the country where we supposedly have the right to freedom of speech. Seriously what is happening to America.
If IGN has to cut off the finger to save the hand, trust me they will. I think Greg will be ok, hopefully he will stop making insensitive… more comments in the future, i mean seriously how hard is it to act respectful of people at work. If Greg acts less jerky people won't hate on him so much.
. I heard about that ESPN anchor, and I think it was wrong for him to get fired for having an unpopular opinion
The kicker is the guy who punched his fiance, Ray Rice got suspended for two games LOL. The ESPN anchor who commented on it, lost his job. Only in America.
This is redundant. Stop making this about me. The story isn't theirs. I know. Why do I worry? I don't worry but I do care all the same when people start alleging people had some sort of vendetta against this character and that two employees and one journo's so called opinions towards autism or "special" people reflects that of their whole company. This isn't about fictional characters for me, it never was. This is about real life human beings.
I came in with its not your story because I read something similar or along the lines of this in the OP.
people who chose to save her and believe in her got screwed over by a nonsensical death a few scenes later with no real development in-between.
Got screwed over? How? I really would like to know how. Who are you to decide that it was nonsensical? Do you write? Have any accolades that can prove you a master of story crafting? No? Nonsensical means to have no meaning or makes no sense. Well it makes perfect sense to me if you stand on a deck while it falls you're going to fall with it. No meaning? I highly question that too as the episode seemed to be focused on making the point that you (Clementine) can make it without others, that their burdens would slow her down, put her in danger. And even though Sarah did die you could convince Jane to help her even though she wouldn't have at the start. That's character development. Sarah had development in that time as well, she was dealing with the loss of her father. When the roamers came out of the woods it was Sarah who spoke up first, she was more brave in that moment and all the moments leading up to her death than ever before throughout the entire season.
I have no idea what you're talking about or how this post addresses anything discussed in this comment thread. I never accused you of being … moreanti-disability.
The critique being made in the OP is of the attitude displayed in the interview by greg and the writers and how that's reflected in the writing of the episode with how people who chose to save her and believe in her got screwed over by a nonsensical death a few scenes later with no real development inbetween. They think it was poorly done and that the reprehensible attitude apparently shown in the interview (she's not normal so it was great when she died, to paraphrase) was the cause of it.
You came in with "it's not your story you can't tell TTG what to do" and then implied that the OP was nothing more than a dissing thread without critical value. They can't "tell telltale what to do" and it is "their story", sure. They can't, so why are you even worried about it. But they can give… [view original content]
Yeah, let's have more threads about "Kenny vs Luke." Any criticism of the company doing offensive things is unimportant because it makes people feel uncomfortable, and discussions should never be uncomfortable.
Can we all just let this thread die? Like seriously, there is no need for this thread and it makes a really poor representation of what this… more forum is actually capable of. I know it [the forum] hasn't been good as of late but deep down there are some insightful people on this forums. Lets let them post the threads from now on. This thread is 100% ridiculous.
Dude, as long as you're not stupid, know how to use a weapon and how to survive, you've covered the basics. If you were in a wheelchair and … moreparalyzed from the neck down, then you're done. Simple as. As long as your anxiety is controlled you can be a survivor.
Yeah, except Greg Miller isn't at all what this thread is about. It's apparently about how Telltale is ableist for portraying mental disability fairly instead of idealistically. Greg Miller isn't even named in the thread title, he's an afterthought.
I dunno who Greg Miller is but accusing him of being sexist and ableist based off of this seems like a bit much, especially since he's large… morely responding on how he saw a big part of the fanbase react. Even if the accusation is accurate his views do not necessarily reflect that of Telltale who I think handled Sarah well and realistically if not politically correct.
I think you should watch the interview, and you will understand why people are mad. He said that he hated a "child.", and was happy to see this "child die.", He also said, he couldn't wait to get rid of her because she had "problems.", he was happy because he got enjoyment in slapping Sarah, a disabled girl.
Something just sin't right with this guy. I don't blame Telltale, i think they should just distance themselves from this guy.
I technically devote 100% of my time to helping people with disabilities. You have no idea how much my computer screen has helped me to improve my mental condition. You don't know anything about me or my life so how 'bout you stop talking about it.
I did not call everyone who didn't like sarah a hater. I said several times that I can understand the decision to abandon her. There's not much point going through your post point by point because you clearly don't understand the problem here in the first place.
Given that you can't tell whether she has a disability or not, forgive me for not taking too much stock in your opinion on other people's thoughts and motivations. How about you actually read people's posts before spewing a bunch of shit, absolutely noone has said "sarah died therefore telltale hates disabled people".
Please do not label people as haters just because they happened to not appreciate or like a fictional character in a video game. That kine… more of reasoning coming from you is, in fact, is offensive and insulting. Liking or not liking a fictional character in a video game does not automatically translate into real life point of view and treatment toward certain group of people.
And exactly where is the clear evidence that Sarah is disabled? You are making an assumption based on your subjective observation of her. Don't parade around and preach people that it is a fact. You say you are tired of people saying "burden" and "liability?" How about I and many others are tired of your "Disabled people are hated because Sarah died?"
If you are so passionate about people with disabilities, why don't you devote your time outside of your computer screen and instead put all that time into helping real people in real life who needs help? It is so… [view original content]
This is what you should have posted in the OP. That being said, this is still a bad argument. Nonsensical - I know what it means and it describes sarah's death just fine. Why was she even on the deck? Right at the edge no less? How did that big chunk of debris come to be on top of her? Why did clem not jump down to help? Why did bonnie and mike fire 1 shot each and then nobody did a single thing to try and help. It makes no sense at all.
Like I said, no real development. She sat in a corner, said some shit like she was in denial, then died. That's not adequate character development for a character who had masses of potential development.
One doesn't need writing accolades to criticize someone elses writing any more than you need to be a cook to say whether a meal tastes like shit. That is a total bottom-of-the-barrel argument.
This is redundant. Stop making this about me. The story isn't theirs. I know. Why do I worry? I don't worry but I do care all the same when … morepeople start alleging people had some sort of vendetta against this character and that two employees and one journo's so called opinions towards autism or "special" people reflects that of their whole company. This isn't about fictional characters for me, it never was. This is about real life human beings.
I came in with its not your story because I read something similar or along the lines of this in the OP.
people who chose to save her and believe in her got screwed over by a nonsensical death a few scenes later with no real development in-between.
Got screwed over? How? I really would like to know how. Who are you to decide that it was nonsensical? Do you write? Have any accolades that can prove you a master of story crafting? No? Nonsensical means to have no meaning or makes no sense.… [view original content]
Like I said, we'll have agree to disagree. Neither of us will be swayed in our opinions.
I have absolutely no disagreement when it comes to saying that Greg could have worded what he said better. But that is beside the point. The point being that there are far more worthwhile things to get worked up over. This is just the new thing people have found to hate Telltale over. It's just people following the pack really. (I don't mean everyone, but a lot? Yes)
I'm honestly done debating this because there's nothing more to say. If you disagree with me, that's fine.
Archer? I've never seen that. I have it on my to watch list for Netflix though. I've watched Fairy Tail and a few other animes recently. Currently, working my way through D Gray Man and Hunter x Hunter. Physcho (spelling?) Pass looks like it'll be worth a watch too and Hunter is rather good, though I'm not one who likes subtitles too much if it can be avoided.
No, this "simple entertainment" versus serious attitude is a dead horse, Rob. It's got nothing to do with my input on the topic at hand.
… moreOf course. Greg Miller made it sound like "you're in my way", however. There's a right way to make light of a game, and a wrong way. If Miller hadn't said otherwise in an apology, I'm sure everyone here would agree overwhelmingly that he made light of the situation in a mean-spirited fashion.
We've all got better things to do with our time, Rob. I was just watching Archer a few seconds ago, now I'm here. Come back to this in a week if you want, but like you, I certainly won't be at my desk waiting like some modern-day Gollum.
Just curious.... If you are saying that this game isn't real life, why are you and others continuing to tie Sarah's death and depiction of Sarah to real life issues and real life people? So the story does not need to depict realism but a certain special character in that story must be tied to real life people and issues? I don't quite follow this flawed way of logic and reasoning.
The difference is, this game isn't real life. The universe of TWD isn't dictated by God or fate or chance or whatever. It's dictated by writ… moreers and staff. And the writers chose to mock a character that represented a very real, very marginalized group of people in the Playing Dead interview, mocking her character and talking about how many (real) people wanted her dead.
No one was asking for Sarah to live for the whole series. But her death was BS. From a writing perspective, it sucked; there was no point to it, other than to prove Jane's "survival of the fittest" worldview. The very same worldview we were supposed to object to in season one, when it was presented by Crawford.
Much respect to you and what you had to say. Hit the nail on the head on the spot. I can't see how anyone can argue with this. Not surprised with the lack of replies directly to this post in opposition.
I'm sorry but I'm getting a little fed up with this. I'm a female that suffers from depression, anxiety and has had panic attacks in the pas… moret and some other things I would rather not discuss. Watching that interview I can tell you the only problem I had with it was Greg going overboard on Sarah, but he apologized and even admits he didn't know she was disabled, and I'm sure that if he had figured that beforehand he might not have been so harsh about it. Even I honestly didn't notice that Sarah might have disabilities until somebody pointed it out some months ago.
Fact is that TWDG is a world where the strong are going to have a better chance at than the weak, and this is includes everybody from physical disabilities to mental disabilities. A person in a wheelchair to somebody mentally handicapped it doesn’t matter, when you got dead walking around, they’re the ones more likely to suffer because they can’t protect themselves. The only way t… [view original content]
Yeah, but if people are still upset they should still have the right to message Telltale about it. I just think it best to keep a level-head about it because they're more likely to listen.
And I don't know about that, I had a couple people reply to me on tumblr about it. Although it wasn't anything scary, we just talked.
Much respect to you and what you had to say. Hit the nail on the head on the spot. I can't see how anyone can argue with this. Not surprised with the lack of replies directly to this post in opposition.
So somebody disliking a character who from your point of view has a mental handicap means that they hate people with handicaps? Let me say that again just in case you don't understand, are you seriously saying that a person who dislikes a fictional character from a fictional video game means they hate actual people in real life with real handicaps? Please let that ruminate before answering.
I totally agree with you... People just hate handicaps, in real life they may not show it, but its in games that people show their true feel… moreings! People didn't like ben, and now they don't like sarah... Both characters had great character development and to see them getting so much hate...
You sound like you have evidence that proves a direct correlation between persons' behavior towards disabled people in games and their attitude toward the disabled in real life. And also that Ben is disabled. Care to share?
I totally agree with you... People just hate handicaps, in real life they may not show it, but its in games that people show their true feel… moreings! People didn't like ben, and now they don't like sarah... Both characters had great character development and to see them getting so much hate...
Comments
you downers have no life..TROLLERS!
Definitely not. I am a person who is all about creativity and people expressing themselves. That's why I get a bit defensive when it comes to the writers or artists power over their art. Usually when people say what you say, I feel like people are taking away from the person who created that thing. The way you describe it has put it into a better context for me, though.
I doubt you were joking, the content of your other comments on this thread say otherwise. I only called you out in the first place because I know you're a Tumblr person, and I know far too many Tumblr users who share the same idiotic mindset, and fail to see the hypocrisy in it. Now you're backtracking because you don't want deal with the repercussions. Don't dish out bullshit that you can't take yourself.
I totally agree with you... People just hate handicaps, in real life they may not show it, but its in games that people show their true feelings! People didn't like ben, and now they don't like sarah... Both characters had great character development and to see them getting so much hate...
He said, she's abnormal and she did this abnormal behaviour so I hate her and she should die. That was what he said. He clearly said that he realised she wasn't normal, thought it was due to being coddled and when he realised she still wasn't normal afterwards he decided he hated her.
Right, but he would say the same thing of Ben. Ben was "abnormal" for a survivor in the same sense that Sarah was. Or so Greg thought. He thought that Sarah, like Ben, was responsible for her abnormal behavior because he didn't know that she abnormal to the extent that exceptions should be made to excuse her behavior (what we call "a disability"). I feel like the discussion has kinda stagnated on this point for quite some time...
How was Ben abnormal? And if his reason for hating Ben was that he was "abnormal" then he was also an asshole in that case. I guess it just hit a few more nerves when it's said about a character who so many fans identify with, hence this furore.
I think you should watch the interview, and you will understand why people are mad. He said that he hated a "child.", and was happy to see this "child die.", He also said, he couldn't wait to get rid of her because she had "problems.", he was happy because he got enjoyment in slapping Sarah, a disabled girl.
Something just sin't right with this guy. I don't blame Telltale, i think they should just distance themselves from this guy.
The.... downers?
Well Ben was abnormal, like I said, in the sense that he just wasn't like the other survivors. He was meek, panicky, cowardly, etc. Other characters, while they had their own demons and issues, were more or less able to get their shit together when push came to shove. Ben didn't and a lot of people, Greg included, hated him for that.
The only thing new with Sarah is that she had a valid excuse for not getting her shit together that Greg and many others didn't pick up on. But not picking up on that doesn't make him an asshole. What arguably does make him an asshole is hating someone for being a shitty survivor. And in that case, he would be an asshole for hating Sarah and for hating Ben. Which is what your opinion seems to be. And that's fine. That's consistent. It's only inconsistent if you call someone an asshole for hating Sarah but don't call them an asshole for hating Ben.
Ben was not abnormal even among the survivors. He was kind of a pussy but not abnormally so. But yes that's my opinion. Though Ben did get his shit together, what are you even talking about.
Well, he kinda got his shit together after you save him. He still passes the fuck out when Lee goes to chop his arm off if it's just him. Prior to Episode 5, though, Ben's shit was distinctly not together. I mean even Clem is like "Why the fuck are you leaving me with that guy? Do you want me to die?" ...maybe not in those words....
Except it was. He was not, at any point, non-functional. He was a bit of a coward in leaving the supplies for the bandits but then he found the balls, after he realised it had gone way too far, to tell you about it. Can you refresh my memory on how his shit wasn't together after that point? I do have a bad memory so help me remember.
Excuse me? People don't hate the disabled. I'm sorry you feel so jaded as to suggest that, using a videogame as proof, but you're wrong. Why are so many people here so ridiculous and extreme in their views? It's incredibly sad.
Haha thanks, you'll probably get shit from the Tumblr, Feminist and Sarah radicals for being in my fan club but I love you all the same
Welcome aboard!
There was leaving running off and leaving Clem in the middle of the streets, not looking after Clem and letting her wander off in Savannah after Lee specifically told him to watch her, losing track of Clem again and letting her play outside by herself, there's the infamous hatchet-in-the-door handle fiasco, and there was him spilling his guts to Kenny at literally the worst possible time. He didn't "cease to function" like Sarah did, he just functioned very, very poorly.
I think he apologised because he didn't actually mean to offend people, he just expressed his opinion on a video game character and people are taking it way to far. I don't see why they think his opinion of Sarah would transcend in to real life. "Sarah was disabled (psst... she wasn't) and Greg said something I didn't like about her, so he MUST hate disabled people!"
IGN is a shitty company, they wouldn't give a flying fuck about a group of angry people on a forum. Greg apologised for his actions and upsetting people (without the prompting of IGN, I would assume) and people give him shit for trying to make up for it. What more do people want from him? There's not much else he can do... and IGN aren't going to sack him for pissing Tumblr off :P
Exactly. This isn't constructive at all. It's "I'm angry with you killing off someone I liked so suddenly, and now I can say she's disabled to add more fuel to the flame!"
I don't see how this is in any way abnormal. The only one that comes close is the hatchet in the door handle. I've heard many parents attest to how difficult it is to keep an eye on children. He's not exactly the most courageous person on the planet but abnormal? Really?
Anyway, this is tangential, as you know. I think if greg hated him for being abnormal that's still assholish.
Go Echopapa!!
I think that if you could plot the "zombie apocalypse survivability" of Walking Dead Game characters on a Bell curve, Ben would be over one standard deviation from the mean. They don't call him the walking liability for nothing. :P
No, this "simple entertainment" versus serious attitude is a dead horse, Rob. It's got nothing to do with my input on the topic at hand.
Of course. Greg Miller made it sound like "you're in my way", however. There's a right way to make light of a game, and a wrong way. If Miller hadn't said otherwise in an apology, I'm sure everyone here would agree overwhelmingly that he made light of the situation in a mean-spirited fashion.
We've all got better things to do with our time, Rob. I was just watching Archer a few seconds ago, now I'm here. Come back to this in a week if you want, but like you, I certainly won't be at my desk waiting like some modern-day Gollum.
You are making a baseless accusation that anyone who abandoned or did not like Sarah is some villain and a hater. And exactly where is the clear evidence that Sarah is a disabled person anyhow? It is from your subjective opinion that she might be, but she may not be. She is just a troubled and disturbed young girl that needs help but cannot motivate herself to get help for herself, let alone help other people.
We are talking about a fictional video game character. Not liking or appreciating such characters does not automatically translate into real life hatred towards certain group of people. Instead of making arguments about how a fictional character in a video game is so mistreated, why don't you use that same energy and enthusiasm towards real people who are really disabled in real life?
DomeWing could not have better explained about Sarah any clearly. She did directly cause the deaths of Reggie and Nick. She almost got Luke killed. She could have gotten both Jane and Clem killed. She did directly put other people in danger for her lack of willpower to help herself even witn the helping hands reaching out to help her. Who says the zombies discriminate and gives a certain person a "free pass" for being different? When it is all said and done, Sarah is just like everyone else.... Survivor who is vulnerable to deaths at any time. Even the best of them like Lee succumbed due to pure bad luck.
Sarah's second death could have been someone else's death. Death can come to anyone.... Everyone is the same... They are all vulnerable survivors. Just people trying to live another day.
And for the last time, liking, appreciating, not appreciating, hating a fictional character in a video game does not automatically translate into that said person's point of view and how he/she conducts him/herself in real life.
Please do not label people as haters just because they happened to not appreciate or like a fictional character in a video game. That kine of reasoning coming from you is, in fact, is offensive and insulting. Liking or not liking a fictional character in a video game does not automatically translate into real life point of view and treatment toward certain group of people.
And exactly where is the clear evidence that Sarah is disabled? You are making an assumption based on your subjective observation of her. Don't parade around and preach people that it is a fact. You say you are tired of people saying "burden" and "liability?" How about I and many others are tired of your "Disabled people are hated because Sarah died?"
If you are so passionate about people with disabilities, why don't you devote your time outside of your computer screen and instead put all that time into helping real people in real life who needs help? It is so easy for you to sit in front of your computer and act like as if you are a super saint, but it isn't so easy to apply it in the outside world, is it?
And what gives you the right to label other people as haters? Aren't you a hater yourself for saying what you are??
Criticisms about any video games are usually refreshing to read, but this??? It is getting out of hand now.
really assholic sarah was good hispanic girl carlos good guy
I don't deny that Greg is a jerk, nor am I defending or validating what he said. What I'm mad about is that people are acting like he committed a crime by expressing his opinion, and are trying to get him fired. People are even trying to force TellTale into making an official public apology, like its their fault for not anticipating Greg's opinion. No matter how unpopular or harsh an opinion is, I don't think anyone should be forced into censoring themselves/being politically correct because it might hurt someone's feelings. People need to toughen up and just brush it off, there are always going to be people who say controversial things, but they aren't obligated to apologize for their personal opinion.
Yep, the country where we supposedly have the right to freedom of speech. Seriously what is happening to America.
This is redundant. Stop making this about me. The story isn't theirs. I know. Why do I worry? I don't worry but I do care all the same when people start alleging people had some sort of vendetta against this character and that two employees and one journo's so called opinions towards autism or "special" people reflects that of their whole company. This isn't about fictional characters for me, it never was. This is about real life human beings.
I came in with its not your story because I read something similar or along the lines of this in the OP.
Got screwed over? How? I really would like to know how. Who are you to decide that it was nonsensical? Do you write? Have any accolades that can prove you a master of story crafting? No? Nonsensical means to have no meaning or makes no sense. Well it makes perfect sense to me if you stand on a deck while it falls you're going to fall with it. No meaning? I highly question that too as the episode seemed to be focused on making the point that you (Clementine) can make it without others, that their burdens would slow her down, put her in danger. And even though Sarah did die you could convince Jane to help her even though she wouldn't have at the start. That's character development. Sarah had development in that time as well, she was dealing with the loss of her father. When the roamers came out of the woods it was Sarah who spoke up first, she was more brave in that moment and all the moments leading up to her death than ever before throughout the entire season.
Yeah, let's have more threads about "Kenny vs Luke." Any criticism of the company doing offensive things is unimportant because it makes people feel uncomfortable, and discussions should never be uncomfortable.
Controlled as long as no one is against me. I'm annoying like Sarah I'm sure I with garner haters against me and enough of them will shut me down.
greg was a horrible interviewer.. -_-
here ya go guys
Yeah, except Greg Miller isn't at all what this thread is about. It's apparently about how Telltale is ableist for portraying mental disability fairly instead of idealistically. Greg Miller isn't even named in the thread title, he's an afterthought.
I technically devote 100% of my time to helping people with disabilities. You have no idea how much my computer screen has helped me to improve my mental condition. You don't know anything about me or my life so how 'bout you stop talking about it.
I did not call everyone who didn't like sarah a hater. I said several times that I can understand the decision to abandon her. There's not much point going through your post point by point because you clearly don't understand the problem here in the first place.
Given that you can't tell whether she has a disability or not, forgive me for not taking too much stock in your opinion on other people's thoughts and motivations. How about you actually read people's posts before spewing a bunch of shit, absolutely noone has said "sarah died therefore telltale hates disabled people".
This is what you should have posted in the OP. That being said, this is still a bad argument. Nonsensical - I know what it means and it describes sarah's death just fine. Why was she even on the deck? Right at the edge no less? How did that big chunk of debris come to be on top of her? Why did clem not jump down to help? Why did bonnie and mike fire 1 shot each and then nobody did a single thing to try and help. It makes no sense at all.
Like I said, no real development. She sat in a corner, said some shit like she was in denial, then died. That's not adequate character development for a character who had masses of potential development.
One doesn't need writing accolades to criticize someone elses writing any more than you need to be a cook to say whether a meal tastes like shit. That is a total bottom-of-the-barrel argument.
Like I said, we'll have agree to disagree. Neither of us will be swayed in our opinions.
I have absolutely no disagreement when it comes to saying that Greg could have worded what he said better. But that is beside the point. The point being that there are far more worthwhile things to get worked up over. This is just the new thing people have found to hate Telltale over. It's just people following the pack really. (I don't mean everyone, but a lot? Yes)
I'm honestly done debating this because there's nothing more to say. If you disagree with me, that's fine.
Archer? I've never seen that. I have it on my to watch list for Netflix though. I've watched Fairy Tail and a few other animes recently. Currently, working my way through D Gray Man and Hunter x Hunter. Physcho (spelling?) Pass looks like it'll be worth a watch too and Hunter is rather good, though I'm not one who likes subtitles too much if it can be avoided.
Just curious.... If you are saying that this game isn't real life, why are you and others continuing to tie Sarah's death and depiction of Sarah to real life issues and real life people? So the story does not need to depict realism but a certain special character in that story must be tied to real life people and issues? I don't quite follow this flawed way of logic and reasoning.
Much respect to you and what you had to say. Hit the nail on the head on the spot. I can't see how anyone can argue with this. Not surprised with the lack of replies directly to this post in opposition.
Yeah, but if people are still upset they should still have the right to message Telltale about it. I just think it best to keep a level-head about it because they're more likely to listen.
And I don't know about that, I had a couple people reply to me on tumblr about it. Although it wasn't anything scary, we just talked.
So somebody disliking a character who from your point of view has a mental handicap means that they hate people with handicaps? Let me say that again just in case you don't understand, are you seriously saying that a person who dislikes a fictional character from a fictional video game means they hate actual people in real life with real handicaps? Please let that ruminate before answering.
You sound like you have evidence that proves a direct correlation between persons' behavior towards disabled people in games and their attitude toward the disabled in real life. And also that Ben is disabled. Care to share?